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What makes Joe Biden a better candidate than Elizabeth Warren? (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter bosoxs45
- Start date
Captain Cranks
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
knowledge dropper
Footballguy
Biden is very charismatic and Warren isn’t.
Politician Spock
Footballguy
I'm not sure what crap you are referring too then. If Bernie had beaten Hillary, we may have avoided the crap we got.
timschochet
Footballguy
I am referring to Bernie Sanders voters sitting out the general election because they didn’t get who they wanted, and some even voting for Trump. Did that cause Hillary to lose the election? No. But it didn’t help, either.
Politician Spock
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
Politician Spock
Footballguy
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
The big picture was not supporting the rigged party. Change things up if you want their support. I'm sure attempting to shame them about their votes will be helpful
Probably seen as more of a moderate, attached to Obama 8 years, can win in the swing states...bosoxs45 said:
Warren, to her credit, has been offering up policies moreso that her political opponents, but most pundits (take it for what it's worth since the pundits are typically wrong about everything) think Trump is licking his chops for her.
fightingillini
Footballguy
Easy. I think Biden would at least be willing to work across the aisle to get some compromise. He is generally respected on both sides.
Warren would never do that, she is way too partisan. Like Hillary, she also polarizing....you either like her or hate her. (I personally can't stand her.) Her turning down a town hall on Fox News is just a stupid unforced error. She can't get past her prejudices about Fox News and take the opportunity to actually speak to a large amount of moderate and center-right voters....many who she will need to vote for her to win. She should be asking herself.....Bernie did one. I will assume Biden will do one. Many other Democrats offered to take Warren's place on Fox. BTW, what is the problem with Chris Wallace, Bret Baier, and Martha MacCallum as moderators? They are excellent journalists and very fair to both sides of the aisle.
I think Biden beats Trump easily. Unlike some in 2016, there is no way a far left person will sit this election out....while they may want Bernie or Warren or Harris, they will show up, hold their nose and vote for Biden. It may not be a vote FOR Biden....it will be a vote AGAINST Trump, which counts just a much. Biden should be able to get the votes in PA, MI, and WI to flip those states back to the Dem column, which they need to win.
Warren would never do that, she is way too partisan. Like Hillary, she also polarizing....you either like her or hate her. (I personally can't stand her.) Her turning down a town hall on Fox News is just a stupid unforced error. She can't get past her prejudices about Fox News and take the opportunity to actually speak to a large amount of moderate and center-right voters....many who she will need to vote for her to win. She should be asking herself.....Bernie did one. I will assume Biden will do one. Many other Democrats offered to take Warren's place on Fox. BTW, what is the problem with Chris Wallace, Bret Baier, and Martha MacCallum as moderators? They are excellent journalists and very fair to both sides of the aisle.
I think Biden beats Trump easily. Unlike some in 2016, there is no way a far left person will sit this election out....while they may want Bernie or Warren or Harris, they will show up, hold their nose and vote for Biden. It may not be a vote FOR Biden....it will be a vote AGAINST Trump, which counts just a much. Biden should be able to get the votes in PA, MI, and WI to flip those states back to the Dem column, which they need to win.
timschochet
Footballguy
I don’t want to change things up. And I don’t care about their support; doubt we’ll get it anyhow.
And don’t talk to me about a rigged party. Lol.
timschochet
Footballguy
This is true of Warren fans and Harris fans, but I think some Bernie fans will resist.
urbanhack
Fight The Power!
The Commish
Footballguy
What exactly do you expect from that idealistic group? I am willing to bet these people will remain consistent in their views. If you don't want the same crap to happen this time that happened last time, don't throw out such a similar option that produced the result last time. This isn't difficult
timschochet
Footballguy
Idealistic isn’t the word I would use, as I wrote.What exactly do you expect from that idealistic group? I am willing to bet these people will remain consistent in their views. If you don't want the same crap to happen this time that happened last time, don't throw out such a similar option that produced the result last time. This isn't difficult
And Joe Biden is a liberal Democrat, just like Hillary was. They are the sort of people that the Democratic Party produce. If that’s not what you want, then you’re probably not really a Democrat. But I mentioned that as well.
The Commish
Footballguy
I can't think of another term honestly. They don't settle for the lesser of two evils narrative which means they don't measure their options by the choices available rather against a standard they have set for all candidates. You can trot out all the same talking points as last time against all the predictions that came true last time to your amazement, but the reality is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result is ####### nutsIdealistic isn’t the word I would use, as I wrote.What exactly do you expect from that idealistic group? I am willing to bet these people will remain consistent in their views. If you don't want the same crap to happen this time that happened last time, don't throw out such a similar option that produced the result last time. This isn't difficult
And Joe Biden is a liberal Democrat, just like Hillary was. They are the sort of people that the Democratic Party produce. If that’s not what you want, then you’re probably not really a Democrat. But I mentioned that as well.
We're talking about the same Joe Biden that bragged to his donors about voting for a fence to stop the Mexicans from bringing in drugs right?
Yeah, that's not what I want. If that makes me not a Democrat, then fine.
timschochet
Footballguy
Are you suggesting that if Joe Biden is the nominee Donald Trump will win again?I can't think of another term honestly. They don't settle for the lesser of two evils narrative which means they don't measure their options by the choices available rather against a standard they have set for all candidates. You can trot out all the same talking points as last time against all the predictions that came true last time to your amazement, but the reality is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result is ####### nuts
The Commish
Footballguy
Obstinate, sure. And it's this sort of arrogance that pushed them away allowing for that obstinance to take over....again, keep doing the same stupid #### expecting a different result and let me know how that works out for you.
timschochet
Footballguy
If you want to reject Biden over his current or past political stances, nothing wrong with that.
But if you reject him over the more general notion that he is the “establishment candidate supported by Wall Street” then I would argue that you are also rejecting the essence of the Democratic Party. And nothing wrong with that either but I feel free to point it out.
The Commish
Footballguy
Don't change the subject. I am talking about how you and others demonize people within the party you claim to be a part of because they don't think like you do. I can assure you, you will get the same reaction from them every time when you throw out candidates that are flawed in the same ways.
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timschochet
Footballguy
They are demonizing him and me, not the other way around. They are the ones who say they won’t vote for Biden in the general election ; I have always said that I would vote for Bernie in the general election, and I wrote the same in 2016. They’re absolutely welcome in the Democratic Party but they don’t feel the same about me; they’re the ones with the litmus test.
Politician Spock
Footballguy
Let's not forget the fact that the party issued a public apology to Bernie for what was done to him. Maybe the party isn't the victim here. Just maybe.
The Commish
Footballguy
Sorry...they aren't. Everytime they turn around Hillary's ineptitude is shifted to them as the reason she lost the election which we all know is bull####. THere's a reason the party apologized. You should stop and think about that. Everytime they turn around they are looked down upon for having a standard that makes them unwilling to be comparison shopper in the store of crap. You've done that twice in just the last few posts. Perhaps if fewer people settled for that approach and held politicians to a higher standard than each other we wouldn't be in this mess.
The reality is, once the field is narrowed to 3-4, it is my prediction that NONE of them will be polling as a loser to Trump. That talking point is irrelevant to me. It's all about who can win the EC and that is simply a matter of how well the campaign is run. There is no question in my mind that whoever the Dem candidate is, will win the popular vote by a couple million minimum. At some point, the Democratic Party might realize that the popular vote doesn't mean a damn thing and they should stop pretending it does and get to the business of figuring out the EC.
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I think most people that seem to be rejecting him for that reason, actually have specific policy grievances but use the language of "establishment candidate/Wall Street" as shorthand. Biden has a long record of being terrible. Ain't nobody got time to list all the bad stuff.
Summer Wheat
Footballguy
Biden against drugs then he is out for me...I buy street drugs, can`t afford to get them legally.
Mystery Achiever
Footballguy
I think she could get past it. but did it as a political calculation. Just like Perez/DNC rejecting Fox as a debate forum. That's divisive in itself. Wallace, Baier and McCallum can run a fair debate, interview or town hall. They have a record. And the more partisan hosts will be critical regardless of what network airs the debate. It is ridiculous to say you won't go on to not be used by them. I have much more respect for someone like Pete B, who went on and addressed media bias, incl. calling out individual Fox hosts (Ingraham at least twice).
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caustic
Footballguy
My
- her goal right now is to win a primary, and Democratic primary voters are not going to be turned off by her flipping the bird to FOX. And if she becomes the nominee, voters are not going to penalize her for skipping a town hall a year and a half before the election.
timschochet
Footballguy
I agree. This isn’t going to be an issue.My
Putting aside the questions of her personality and sexism, the biggest issue regarding Warren (and Bernie) vs Biden is this: what is this election going to be about for Democrats beyond defeating Trump ? Is it about returning to Obama style status quo Democratic politics, or moving towards some sort of Democratic socialism? I want the former. But I may still be a minority.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
I'm not sure someone who becomes a Republican every time the Dems are in charge and vice versa is the best authority on what a real Democrat is.
timschochet
Footballguy
Captain Cranks
Footballguy
I'm not real sure what I said to warrant this level of judgment. Personality is a key component in determining who people vote for. Look at our presidents over the past 30 years: The winner is always the one with more charisma or greater likability. You can focus on policy all you want, but if the Democratic candidate isn't likable they're not going to win. Warren certainly has more personality than Hillary, but she's part of the same mold that has been shown to turn people off. If you want to be disappointed by me making the point that a shrill old white woman isn't a great candidate, so be it, but thems the facts. She's qualified as hell, but how'd that approach work out for the Dems in 16?
The only possible answer?
Maybe you should expand your circle of friends beyond far-left progressives.
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whoknew
Footballguy
The only possible answer?
Maybe you should expand your circle of friends beyond far-left progressives.
When was the last time a man was called "shrill"?
-fish-
Footballguy
Captain Cranks
Footballguy
Thanks for sharing these. I was actually looking for similar articles. It's unfortunate that this is the predicament, but it has to be considered until the dynamic changes. It's the same with Buttigieg and the African American vote. Blacks still have a big homophobia issue and Mayor Pete isn't going to draw a large black turnout. This has to be considered when talking about electability. Voting for the most qualified candidate with the best policies doesn't do us any good if that person's sitting at home on inauguration day.
The Narrator
Footballguy
Thanks for the tipThe only possible answer?
Maybe you should expand your circle of friends beyond far-left progressives.
You are welcome. But seriously, you think the only reason 35 percent of Democrat voters like Biden vs. 9 percent who like Warren is because he has a penis? You can't see that maybe Biden has more appeal to the middle or that maybe his experience as VP is a positive or maybe he is more statesperson-like, might possibly be why Biden is more appealing to some voters?
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timschochet
Footballguy
It’s not the only reason. It’s not even most of the reason. But it’s some of the reason.
The Narrator
Footballguy
Sure. I can see all of that. Do you think that being a man has nothing to do with all those things you listed?
I would argue her numbers are higher because she is a woman. Being an old white guy among liberal progressives is not a plus.
No. It is how he carries himself. He is not nearly as divisive in his rhetoric as Warren. Warren speaks to the far-left wing of the party and that does not resonate with everyone.
timschochet
Footballguy
You make a huge mistake if you assume that a the majority of Democratic voters are liberal progressives.
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