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Land/Real estate ? (1 Viewer)

JetMaxx

JetMaxx

Footballguy
We own a secluded 1.5ac lot with a house on it. 495’ of frontage on the road, long triangular shaped lot with our house at one end. The 31ac property behind us in relation to the road just sold @ $10k/ac and the buyer approached me about getting access through our property at the other “thin” part of our triangular property. He does have access to the 31ac from the opposite side of it, although it’s a 60’x400’ ROW thru 2 parcels he doesn’t own.  

For us at this point keeping our privacy is paramount as we’ve been here for 14 years and as it sits all we see is trees in every direction(yes we’re those kind of people). Fortunately the lay of the sold property is such that 1.5-2ac immediately behind us would keep things status quo, at least visually. The land rises initially then drops off, again all wooded. My question to any real estate guys out there, is it possible to determine a fair price/land exchange for the access we can provide him?

 
This isn't about being fair. You have all the leverage here. Tell him what you want and see what he counteroffers.

If it were me, I'd give him 2 options:

1. he can lease a right-of-way for [insert ridiculously high price here]. But the ROW reverts back to you if he ever sells the property or ruins your view.

2. he can have the thin part of your triangle in exchange for [insert high number of acres here] from his property.

 
BTW, this happened with a friend of mine. His family owned a farm on the outskirts of the city. Eventually, all the property along the back side of the farm was turned into multi-million-dollar luxury homes. But the luxury homes were cut off from the main highway -- it was a 5 mile drive just to drive around my friend's farm.

My friend had a long driveway/road which cut across his property and went almost all the way to the luxury homes. The guy who bought the first home actually thought that it was his own driveway (he was quite surprised when it suddenly ended at a herd of cattle). My friend ended up leasing the driveway to the guy for a flat fee of $100,000.

And every time a new home was built, the owner would inevitably lease the driveway from my friend. One guy even paid to extend the driveway directly into his backyard. And every time one of those houses is sold, my friend negotiates a new lease with the new owner. He has made more money from that driveway in the past 10 years than his family made from farming in the previous 80 years.

 
:goodposting: Fantastic insight and an option I hadn’t thought of although the other ROW provides a means of access so my negotiating position is limited by that somewhat. 

 
Once you give up that easement, it's recorded to the property.  Tell your friend to seek legal counsel to prevent getting screwed by it in the future.

 
if you want to hedge against a neighbor who you may not like or who may sell in the future, you can grant a temporary easement or license to use your property. You can also condition your grant on the neighbor not developing the portion of his property that would disturb your privacy.  A good re lawyer will have a list of options for you. What state are you in - I can pm you some names

 
cashman88 said:
if you want to hedge against a neighbor who you may not like or who may sell in the future, you can grant a temporary easement or license to use your property. You can also condition your grant on the neighbor not developing the portion of his property that would disturb your privacy.  A good re lawyer will have a list of options for you. What state are you in - I can pm you some names
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We are in SE PA, 1 hour out of Philly. 

 
JetMaxx said:
We own a secluded 1.5ac lot with a house on it. 495’ of frontage on the road, long triangular shaped lot with our house at one end. The 31ac property behind us in relation to the road just sold @ $10k/ac and the buyer approached me about getting access through our property at the other “thin” part of our triangular property. He does have access to the 31ac from the opposite side of it, although it’s a 60’x400’ ROW thru 2 parcels he doesn’t own.  

For us at this point keeping our privacy is paramount as we’ve been here for 14 years and as it sits all we see is trees in every direction(yes we’re those kind of people). Fortunately the lay of the sold property is such that 1.5-2ac immediately behind us would keep things status quo, at least visually. The land rises initially then drops off, again all wooded. My question to any real estate guys out there, is it possible to determine a fair price/land exchange for the access we can provide him?
Click to expand...
I didn;t read the thread.. but imo, you have all the leverage

Ask something that makes it worth your while and then some.  If they refuse, screw them.  :shrug:

 
matuski said:
I didn;t read the thread.. but imo, you have all the leverage

Ask something that makes it worth your while and then some.  If they refuse, screw them.  :shrug:
Click to expand...
A few people have said to ask for a ton. 

Figure out what you would like to see happen, and see if you can make it happen.  No sense in losing out on something you prefer just because you are asking for too much.  

Then negotiate a wife swap.  

 
ghostguy123 said:
A few people have said to ask for a ton. 

Figure out what you would like to see happen, and see if you can make it happen.  No sense in losing out on something you prefer just because you are asking for too much.  

Then negotiate a wife swap.  
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If you don't prefer it (seems to be the case), ask too much.  This was my point.

 
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ghostguy123 said:
A few people have said to ask for a ton. 

Figure out what you would like to see happen, and see if you can make it happen.  No sense in losing out on something you prefer just because you are asking for too much.  

Then negotiate a wife swap.  
Click to expand...
Agree with this in a sense because the added quandary is that he initially intends to log the property to generate income, which would negatively impact us since the woods start right at the property line. He can do this via the other ROW albeit much less conveniently. If I get greedy he may say screw you and log it which is almost as detrimental to our objective.

 
If preserving the woods is the primary objective, then surely you can work something out.

The idea of "screw him" doesn't make a lot of sense to me if you want to try and get something out of it. Sure, if the proposal to you is detrimental or not something you want, then you can ask for a ton. 

But as you mentioned, if you don't do anything with him, you may end up losing what you value the most which are the trees on his property (if I'm reading it correctly). So talk to a lawyer and find a good way to get that worked out.

 
I would tell him "sorry" and enjoy my land just as I like it.  I personally think it is not worth the potential future headache.

 
needanap said:
I would tell him "sorry" and enjoy my land just as I like it.  I personally think it is not worth the potential future headache.
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He can log up to 50’ from my back door, via access from the other ROW. It is in my best interest to negotiate an exchange to preserve what is within sight. 

Ive been in contact with one experienced land development real estate agent, he’s reviewing and has mentioned via email that due to a stream bisecting the 31ac something called a Riparian buffer will limit development somewhat. He shared a few other thoughts as well via email, we are to talk on Tuesday. 

 
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JetMaxx said:
He can log up to 50’ from my back door, via access from the other ROW. It is in my best interest to negotiate an exchange to preserve what is within sight. 

Ive been in contact with one experienced land development real estate agent, he’s reviewing and has mentioned via email that due to a stream bisecting the 31ac something called a Riparian buffer will limit development somewhat. He shared a few other thoughts as well via email, we are to talk on Tuesday. 
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I recommend you work with a real estate lawyer, not a real estate agent, to finally resolve/document this issue

 
cashman88 said:
I recommend you work with a real estate lawyer, not a real estate agent, to finally resolve/document this issue
Click to expand...
Agree, competent legal representation is one aspect of my conversation with the agent and he’s providing me with some recommendations. The agent is involved at this point to help me establish a value the additional access would provide the neighbor, thereby enabling the negotiation to take a big step past the “I think it’s worth X, he thinks it’s worth Y” spot that we are in. He also mentioned how the zoning out here impacts the number of lots/houses in addition to other aspects like the aforementioned Riparian buffer so he’s providing some solid insight.

 
JetMaxx said:
Agree, competent legal representation is one aspect of my conversation with the agent and he’s providing me with some recommendations. The agent is involved at this point to help me establish a value the additional access would provide the neighbor, thereby enabling the negotiation to take a big step past the “I think it’s worth X, he thinks it’s worth Y” spot that we are in. He also mentioned how the zoning out here impacts the number of lots/houses in addition to other aspects like the aforementioned Riparian buffer so he’s providing some solid insight.
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Thats gonna be my next bands name

 
Slider said:
Hi neighbor! 

You could always put a row of Green Giant Arborvitae where the wood line is. It would look nicer too.
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Hi fellow 🦅 fan! We love the look of the woods, although there will be a spot where we would see the potential road in the winter and a planting of those will definitely be a part of the negotiation. And of course apple trees-see avatar 😁

 
JetMaxx said:
He can log up to 50’ from my back door, via access from the other ROW. It is in my best interest to negotiate an exchange to preserve what is within sight. 

Ive been in contact with one experienced land development real estate agent, he’s reviewing and has mentioned via email that due to a stream bisecting the 31ac something called a Riparian buffer will limit development somewhat. He shared a few other thoughts as well via email, we are to talk on Tuesday. 
Click to expand...
I think you are on the right track here, find something that works for both of you with you receiving a fair compensation and maintaining a reasonable buffer so he doesn’t log all the way up to your lot line. Good luck!

 
Update:

Talked briefly with a realtor with 35 years of experience in the area. He said access value can be determined if the other guy is willing to put restrictions on his land. For example, if he’s willing to restrict the 31 acres to 3 build lots, access can be ceded for say $10k/lot and a covenant that the 3ac behind us isn’t touched. If the restriction is 15 lots, then access value is much much more, maybe not quite $10k/ac but close. He said that when he calls to discuss it, ask him what his plans are and if he’s willing to restrict it. Tell him I’ll review then call the realtor back and we’ll discuss a more detailed plan. Honing in on options here.

 
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