rockaction
Footballguy
Get out your baseball bats boys! The FFA agrees with political violence to those groups who have violence endemic in their ethos.
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Can I Punch Ba'athists, Hamas Supporters, and Taliban Supporters in Paterson, NJ or Dearborn, MI? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter rockaction
- Start date
HellToupee
Footballguy
Who doesn’t like the Baseball Furies?
rockaction
Footballguy
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Meh.
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rockaction
Footballguy
Ba'athists? Yes.
Palestinians and the PLO and Hamas as its ruling entity? Yes.
The Taliban and their killing soccer fields? Yes.
People unafraid of seeming racist to the modern left have seen these political parties and groups for what they are. Irredeemably nationalistic, fascistic, terroristic, genocidal and theocratic maniacs.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
Why is that a straw man? The strongest argument that we have for punching Nazis is that their violence is inherent in their ideology, therefore simply holding that out as an ideology is a punchable offense. Equating them with Ba'athists, Palestinians, and the Taliban is certainly not taking the weakest element of the Nazi-punching argument and using it to justify some other action. It Is the essence of the argument itself. Simply quoting a logical fallacy does not make it applicable or correct in a particular essence.
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rockaction
Footballguy
Chaka gets an F in Applied Logic 101.
rockaction
Footballguy
No, I'm sure those that would punch Nazis on this board have a much different view of the ethnic, social, religioius, or economic murders when they're done by Islamists or Arabs.
Man of Constant Sorrow
Footballguy
Hey, I'm feeling OK.
It's good, cause lately - I been feeling so strange, like I been re-arranged, changed? And these voices - the ones that I can hear in my head - oh these fellas are telling me that I'd be better off dead; they're painting me red, and lately, it's been getting harder to sleep.
These muscle spasms hit me so deep, and every single night I get cold...like I can't feel my hands or my toes, and no one told me which way to go. But I'm still here, so...
Why don't you pour me another one, Kyle...
Why can't I come down? I'm so cold again ... can't feel my face again, no - my patience is wearing thin - 6 A.M. there goes the moon. I feel like death is coming soon and, oh...all I wanna do is ####in' sleep.
Nothing flashed before my eyes; no pretty angels, and no bright lights. All I saw was the devil's soul - and it looked a hell of a lot like my own.
Baath's? Salt n the wound.
It's good, cause lately - I been feeling so strange, like I been re-arranged, changed? And these voices - the ones that I can hear in my head - oh these fellas are telling me that I'd be better off dead; they're painting me red, and lately, it's been getting harder to sleep.
These muscle spasms hit me so deep, and every single night I get cold...like I can't feel my hands or my toes, and no one told me which way to go. But I'm still here, so...
Why don't you pour me another one, Kyle...
Why can't I come down? I'm so cold again ... can't feel my face again, no - my patience is wearing thin - 6 A.M. there goes the moon. I feel like death is coming soon and, oh...all I wanna do is ####in' sleep.
Nothing flashed before my eyes; no pretty angels, and no bright lights. All I saw was the devil's soul - and it looked a hell of a lot like my own.
Baath's? Salt n the wound.
Otis
Footballguy
Arabs are not a group based on hate and violence.
Islam is a religion of peace.
Nazis are by definition violent racists, no?
rockaction
Footballguy
Ba'athists are fascists and view the Pan-Arabian movement as the end result of history.
The Taliban are Islamofascists, a radical offshoot of Islam.
Palestinians have a terrorist group as the dominant party in their governance in Hamas.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
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Otis
Footballguy
Chaka
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
No, I said it was a radical offshoot of the religion. The Taliban would certainly regard Islam as its main religion, whatever form they choose to take is theirs.
And I sort of know you're throwing out bait there now...
Chaka
Footballguy
Okay @rockaction you seem to know a lot about Nazis so please tell me one legitimate defensible political stance they promote.
Public perception is that the entirety of their ideology equates to white Christians = everyone else GTFO! And MILK RULES!!!
So what are we missing?
I'll hang up and listen but until then #### 'em.
Public perception is that the entirety of their ideology equates to white Christians = everyone else GTFO! And MILK RULES!!!
So what are we missing?
I'll hang up and listen but until then #### 'em.
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
Gr00vus
Footballguy
I think part of his point is that it's ill advised to advocate unprovoked violence against members of a certain group based on your assessment that they're genocidal, or unsavory in some other way.
Chaka
Footballguy
Gr00vus
Footballguy
I guess that's where the disagreement lies. Some here think Jews in Israel are genocidal against Palestinians - is it o.k. for Palestinians to punch Jews in the face without any physical provocation?
Chaka
Footballguy
Chaka
Footballguy
After WWII the word Nazi meant something entirely different than it did in 1920. Regardless of their origins or what they want to say they are, Nazis are not the party of National Socialism (at least a it's an ethos) anymore. That died on May 8th, 1945. After that day any attempt to classify a Nazi as anything other than a person intent on proactively trying to spread fear, hate, intimidation, violence etc. is a steaming pile of blobfish feces.
They're terrorists and should be punched in the face whenever encountered. Anyone calling them "another man's freedom fighter" or some other nonsense that simply dies not apply to Nazis, is a strong candidate for a face punch too.
They're terrorists and should be punched in the face whenever encountered. Anyone calling them "another man's freedom fighter" or some other nonsense that simply dies not apply to Nazis, is a strong candidate for a face punch too.
rockaction
Footballguy
Not really. I envisioned sort of exactly the response I got. This is unlike trying to explain a meme to a reporter and getting punched in the face. This is very much like the lack of the political acumen of the FFA showing itself every day in grand multitudes. The people arguing for punching Nazis in public just for being a member of a hate group generally have the delay of gratification of a three year-old and the political outlook of your average grad student in the politics of power as validated by their three years of sociology courses at the local U.
No, neither of those comparisons are compliments, for anybody who is confused.
rockaction
Footballguy
Sort of laughing. Yeah, I envisioned talking about punching Middle Easterners for being simply a member of a party or group as going swimmingly.
rockaction
Footballguy
That's a relativist that would argue that. That's the straw man you seek. Except it's made by you in place of the stronger argument, which is this: My ideology and, I can assume, most people on this board's ideological underpinnings have nothing to do with relativism. Instead, it's a judgment towards a preference for nonviolence towards those that have not engaged in violence themselves and is simply a tendency towards nonaggression in domestic and social situations as a moral guide.
Nothing relativist or even indicatively characteristic about relativism in our arguments for domestic nonviolence towards nonviolent provocateurs.
rockaction
Footballguy
Ilov80s
Footballguy
What is your point? That video is so exaggerated. Dearborn is an awesome place. Come by sometime and visit.
Otis
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
I'm not insulting your hometown. I'm calling it a powder keg as perceived by the right in this country. That's why I linked the Guardian, a left-wing British newspaper. I didn't even watch the video -- I figured it would explode the myth rather than reinforce it.
For the title of the thread, I picked two stereotypical, nationally known towns with large Arab and/or Islamic populations. Dearborn and Paterson are always on the cable news networks for that sort of demography. The thinking goes that they (Dearborn and Paterson) probably have the largest Ba'athist and Islamofascist tendencies in the country, or at least the most sympathetic.
:shrugs:
My whole point is about not punching nonviolent people because of a belief or party affiliation or rally.
rockaction
Footballguy
If this were shtick, you'd probably make the most of it.
But, sadly, it's dead serious. Shtick is being an i-tough guy and running around snickering about punching Nazis.
The whole thing is pathetic.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Ok yeah the right does perceive it as a powder keg and it’s not. The video makes sympathizes with the Arab/Muslim population and highlights the right/Trump crowd as not so good. I still don’t see the how it relates to views on NAZIs but maybe I’m missing something.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
It actually is pretty great. The culture, food and history for a city of 90,000 is tough to match in the U.S.
Otis
Footballguy
Northern Voice
Footballguy
You're going to have to flesh out the nazis = non-violent point I think.
For my opening argument, I present Germany 1939-1945, what's your rebuttal?
Chaka
Footballguy
What you are missing @rockaction is that Nazis are not a political movement, they are not the militant wing of a political movement (a mistake you made when including, for exampleall Palestinians in your OP). This isn't 1920, I don't even have to explain it beyond saying that today the word Nazi means exactly what everyone thinks it means when they hear the word Nazi. In 2019, if a person chooses to associate themself with that word they know exactly what it means.
#### 'em.
#### 'em.
skycriesmary
Climbing up the Walls
So you have sympathy for people who identify as Nazis? I feel sad that there are those who could subscribe to such an immoral world view, but sure as hell don't feel bad about violence coming their way because of such views. Extremists on both sides make me sad for the world we live in.
ShamrockPride
Footballguy
@FBG Moderator @Joe Bryant
Let's get this back in their little playpen, can we? Please and thanks.
Know what, better yet just delete it. But I'll leave that up to you.
Let's get this back in their little playpen, can we? Please and thanks.
Know what, better yet just delete it. But I'll leave that up to you.
Chaka
Footballguy
I think the main issue, at least with me, is the language you have chosen. You chose the word "Nazi", I understand it comes from the other thread but still, that's the word. That word has no political foundation, at it's best it was the 1930s American interpretation of the German for National Socialism (at least it's an ethos) but that means nothing in 2019. Nazi means one thing.
Now, before we start thinking I am playing semantics or we go off talking about 2019 political equivalents to the 1920s National Socialists (at least it's an ethos) here is where I stand on that. If it talks like a Nazi and goosesteps like a Nazi (e.g. carrying torches chanting "Jews will not replace us!") that's good enough for me to start thinking about face punching.
#### 'em.
rockaction
Footballguy
Ba'athism under Hussein, narrated by Christopher Hitchens
Hamas - condemnation of US, Canada, EU and human rights organizations as terrorist organization
Taliban - Wiki page. Genocide, Theocracide, Sharia Law, need one say more?
This shouldn't even need debate. How can a member of any of these parties not support atrocities inherent in their ideology?
rockaction
Footballguy
You know what? Sometimes the antidote is worse than the cure. If there's going to be a front page Nazi post about political violence, then there should/ought be an answer in stark terms. Just because a longtime poster starts a thread about violence towards undesirables doesn't make another one off-limits.
And I like you, but nobody likes a tattletale, either.
rockaction
Footballguy
I actually come down on the issue right here with you. I personally find Nazis both as having a frighteningly immoral outlook and also as pathetic and depraved. It stimulates both the fight-or-flight response in me and a sense of sadness.
I just don't propose punching them at their pathetic little not-well-attended "rallies."
It's not an easy issue. At what point does the violence of the fascist get aided and abetted by the pacifist or the tolerant? It's the age-old liberal arts question. But the tone and tenor of the other thread with respect to condemnation of violence towards those espousing violent ideologies while remaining nonviolent in their daily affairs was simplistic at best, thoughtless and counterproductive at worst.
I saw fit to highlight that with an example the multicultural left has been having problems with since the cultural realization that Ba'athism and its variants of fascism in Iraq and Syria were evil, as was the radicalized and violent Islamist.
