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Dylan's Influence: Eephus Reviews Albums, Tells Tales, And Recommends A Song

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23 minutes ago, Eephus said:

Dylan has been releasing records for almost 60 years and has rarely repeated himself.  He's not a singles-oriented artist so a greatest hits compilation won't suffice.  I think it'll take at least five albums to get a chalk outline of his career.

  1. one of his early acoustic records
  2. choose one from Bringing It All Back Home, Hwy 61 or Blonde on Blonde
  3. Blood on the Tracks or Desire
  4. A live album
  5. Something from his late career (post-1989) revival

 

This is a good summation. I would recommend

1. The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan

2. Blonde on Blonde

3. Blood on the Tracks

4. Before the Flood

5. Modern Times 

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Freewheeling Bob Dylan, Highway 61 Revisited, and Blood on the Tracks best capture the essence of Dylan, IMO. Don't care much for his material after the 70s.

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Bob Dylan - Concert for the Rock 'n Roll Hall of Fame Museum Cleveland Stadium 2 Sep 1995

It's a short five song set with Dylan resplendent in a gold satin shirt backed by his tight touring band.  I thought at the time that Dylan stole the show at that very long and star-studded concert. 

Dylan plays a lot of lead guitar on this one.  He's no Hendrix but he and Bucky Baxter trade licks on a powerhouse version of  "All Along the Watchtower"

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58 minutes ago, Eephus said:

Bob Dylan - Concert for the Rock 'n Roll Hall of Fame Museum Cleveland Stadium 2 Sep 1995

It's a short five song set with Dylan resplendent in a gold satin shirt backed by his tight touring band.  I thought at the time that Dylan stole the show at that very long and star-studded concert. 

Dylan plays a lot of lead guitar on this one.  He's no Hendrix but he and Bucky Baxter trade licks on a powerhouse version of  "All Along the Watchtower"

I saw him open for the GD that summer. It was good. The band he had a few years later, starting in '99 with Charlie Sexton and Larry Campbell was the best he's had since The Band. If not better. He was fantastic live from '99 - '03. The tours he did with Van Morrison (with Joni Mitchell supporting on one and Lucinda Williams on the other) were outstanding. All at the peak of their powers. Haven't seen Bob since MSG in '03. Based on recordings, I haven't been compelled to see him since.

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No album writeup tonight.  I went with the album that immediately followed that RRHOF performance.  It's 1997's Time Out of Mind.  Dylan hadn't released an album of original material for four years so he had a lot of songs stored up.  The album weighs in at a whopping 72 minutes.  Bosley doesn't have the legs for the CD era so we'll have to split into two nights.

I love what I've heard so far.  It ends with a sixteen and a half minute epic called Highlands that if I've heard it before, I don't remember it in the slightest.

Bosley had a bath and teeth brushing/scraping today.  He tolerates the sink but the teeth are torture for all concerned.  I restrain him while Mrs. Eephus wields the brush and pick.  Everyone survived and Boz smells a bit better.

'

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Ilov80s said:

If one is a completist or historian, it is interesting to get the first Dylan record but even then it's not where I would start. Just like I wouldn't recommend 1925's Pleasure Garden if someone asked me which Hitchcock film to checkout and if someone wanted to get into Mozart, I wouldn't direct them to the minuet he wrote at 5. Evolution is cool, but when first getting into an artist, I think it is best to find their most revered works or the works that best capture who they were. 

I always start at the beginning, it's simply how you'd want to do things if curious about an author, a band, a individual artist.  You get that....what did they sound like in the beginning.....out of the way.

 

I do own all of Dylans stuff, some on tapes, some on CD's.

 

Edited by ZenoRazon

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Take Tom Waits for an example. his early stuff sounds nothing like what he ended up playing.  He morphed from a piano playing crooner into a banging clanging growling medicine show type performer.  So you'd need his early sound to get his story.

Dylan started off paying homage to a sound that influenses him, this is important in his story.

I will say if I could only own one....one....Dylan CD it would be Highway 61 Revisited.

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, Jaysus said:

Which Bob Dylan Album Did You Buy And Why?

I made the decision to buy several, the first of which was The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan. I suppose I picked that particular one because in listening to it, I found an acoustic Dylan in his maybe most storytelling form that there was. The lyrical brilliance of Highway 61 Revisited and The Times They Are A'-Changin aside, I picked Freewheelin' because it seems like Dylan and I are going to sit down for a quiet evening of him telling stories. A review is forthcoming when I actually sit down with the album, but even though I've received and purchased Another side of Bob Dylan and Highway 61 Revisited already, Freewheelin' is the one that I took my trusted counsel at the time and chose. I think that it has "Don't Think Twice It's All Right" as one of my absolute favorites of Dylan's helped the selection along. 

Alas, I have been a bit short on the contributions to the thread myself as a personal trip to Europe looms large and I have personal commitments in the meantime. I'm glad Eephus has taken the lead as far as reviews/criticism/Bosley stories go; the thread is unspeakably better for his postings -- they are a pleasure to read, if potentially difficult to write. 

As far as the debate about which to start with, well, I'll let the pleasantries be. I've now listened to all of the albums from '62-'66, and aside from the nagging feeling that Bringing It All Back Home and Blonde on Blonde are must purchases in the near future, I'm happy with the way it has worked out given what was available to me via mail order (yes, that thing still exists when considering the format I want to purchase the actual, tangible records in) and as far as brick and mortar is concerned. 

And in respect to the aforementioned mail order and review of Freewheelin', I have just checked. It does not look like it will reach me by the time I leave for Eurpoe, so I may review Times or Highway 61 Revisited, first, one of which I have given more than a listen or two to in the audiophile, double album, 45 RPM format over the past several days. "Desolation Row" gets its entire own side, for good or ill depending on one's care and storage of the record, which I am always a bit lacking in.

Anyway, we did not have an Eephus review tonight, so hopefully that suffices for a bit of longform.

Edited by rockaction
Edited for clarity and to correct Oasis-esque bastardization of Don't Think Twice
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Posted (edited)

One thing about format. I bought an entry-level audiophile turntable, one that does not have a convenient switch for 33 1/3 to 45 RPM. One must remove the platter and put the belt on a different part of the harness in order to ensure the correct revolutions per minute. At first, this seems like a sticking point, then a selling point, then again a sticking point once one uses both speeds frequently. What I find is that the 45 RPM Mobile Fidelity sound clearly is better than streaming on my rig, which is slightly digital and not fully analog. It has also been lagging in spots. It might need a new belt, a motor cleaning, or some lubrication on the ball bearings (yes, snickers or Fletch references are allowed).

But, regardless of any teenage laughter, Highway 61 Revisited at 33 1/3 when it is supposed to be 45 is the price one pays for forgetfulness. A slow and slurry listen. Anyway, since this is a thread that is also about the experience of listening to Dylan through a use of the analog masters from Columbia Records, I figured I'd just share.

In a complete non-sequitur, I've also given The Cars' The Cars a spin around the table in between Dylan, and have actually, for some reason, purchased a discount version of My Chemical Romance's 3 LP Welcome To The Black Parade 10th Anniversary Edition because NV (I think) drafted the song and got my antennae up during Genrepalooza III.

This has been another nightly update. On to "Tombstone Blues" and "It Takes A Lot To Laugh, It Takes A Train To Cry" from the more well-known "Like A Rolling Stone," as we speak. I love this album, and can't really think of too much of a better entry point.

eta* "Just Like Tom Thumb's Blues" might be my favorite deep cut off of this album, not the least of reasons why is the Beastie Boys's brilliant sample at the end of "Finger Lickin' Good." This is pulled from a blog post and article from this web address, which spoke of a Dylan/Beasties "collaboration." "We sampled his ###," said Ad Rock.  

http://bbs.beastieboys.com/showthread.php?t=95088

"[] Bob Dylan's original 1965 studio recording of "Just Like Tom Thumb's Blues" was sampled on the track "Finger Lickin' Good", from the album Check Your Head. In the June 1992 issue of Boston Rock, Beastie Boys Michael "Mike D" Diamond revealed the cost of sampling Dylan: "Seven hundred bucks, but he asked for two thousand dollars. I thought it was kind of fly that he asked for $2000.00, and I bartered Bob Dylan down. That's my proudest sampling deal."

 

Edited by rockaction
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3 hours ago, ZenoRazon said:

I always start at the beginning, it's simply how you'd want to do things if curious about an author, a band, a individual artist.  You get that....what did they sound like in the beginning.....out of the way.

 

I do own all of Dylans stuff, some on tapes, some on CD's.

 

I just told you it’s not how I would want to approach things if I was curious about an author, artist or band.

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3 hours ago, rockaction said:

This has been another nightly update. On to "Tombstone Blues" and "It Takes A Lot To Laugh, It Takes A Train To Cry" from the more well-known "Like A Rolling Stone," as we speak. I love this album, and can't really think of too much of a better entry point.

 

:thumbup:  One is hard pressed to fine a better, more cohesive album. 

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Posted (edited)

Also, in a weird way, and due to the dynamics of creativity and emphasis shifting along traditional lines, I've also given Lorde's Pure Heroine a jog around the revolutions tonight, too. If any artist has the youth, yet maturity of lyrical songwriting chops like a Dylan in the modern, popular world, it's her.

She isn't as overtly sociopolitical as Dylan was, but she's steeped in her own societal and musical vernacular and identity, and her lyrics grace the presence of her songs like nothing I've heard in a darn long time, especially in the pop realm, where I'm not sure I've ever heard anything like her in my adult lifetime.   

eta* About to give the two documentaries, Dont Look Back by Pennebaker and No Direction Home by Scorcese, a look. 

 

Edited by rockaction

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2 hours ago, Ilov80s said:

I just told you it’s not how I would want to approach things if I was curious about an author, artist or band.

I'd have a real hard time telling anyone not to start at the beginning if they are curious about music/ authors.

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, ZenoRazon said:

I'd have a real hard time telling anyone not to start at the beginning if they are curious about music/ authors.

There's really no need to argue about it, in my opinion. It's sort of moot anyway. I'd have a hard time recommending The Broom Of The System for somebody interested in an entry point to David Foster Wallace, for another example to the contrary. Simply advocating the first work doesn't hold with what you're trying to do in inculcating a new listener to the oeuvre of the author/musician/poet/etc. 

Sometimes an entry work is just that. A place to start with the most cohesive and accessible piece that is representative of the artist's work as a whole. As far as an entry to Dylan (for deeper cuts than those that reside on the surface of culture or greatest hits comps) to hear House Of The Rising Sun for the hundredth time in my life, done lesser than even the Animals? No thanks. I already have my Leadbellys, Hookers, Johnsons, Rodgers's, Cash's (Cash comes later than Americana/folk/Roots Rock/etc.) and the like. 

Edited by rockaction
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2 minutes ago, ZenoRazon said:

I'd have a real hard time telling anyone not to start at the beginning if they are curious about music/ authors.

That is fine, everyone has their perogative. I just think (depending on the artist) you run a great risk of turning the person off. Again, the first several Hitchcock movies aren't very good, are silent, etc. They aren't much like the films he is remembered for and wouldn't interest most movie goers like a NxNW or Psycho. Same with Dylan. I think for many people who have the potential to like Dylan's music, if there first encounter with it was his debut album, they would be turned off. 

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1 minute ago, rockaction said:

There's really no need to argue about it, in my opinion. It's sort of moot anyway. I'd have a hard time recommending The Broom Of The System for somebody interested in an entry point to David Foster Wallace, for another example to the contrary. Simply advocating the first work doesn't hold with what you're trying to do in inculcating a new listener to the oeuvre of the author/musician/poet/etc. 

Sometimes an entry work is just that. A place to start with the most cohesive and accessible piece that is representative of the artist's work as a whole. As far as an entry to Dylan (for deeper cuts than those that reside on the surface of culture or greatest hits comps) to hear House Of The Rising Sun for the hundredth time in my life, done lesser than even the Animals? No thanks. I already have my Leadbellys, Hookers, Johnsons, Rodgers's, Cash's (Cash comes later than Americana/folk/Roots Rock/etc.) and the like. 

Sure- just a philosophical detour I suppose. I will back off if you feel it derails from Dylan-talk.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

Sure- just a philosophical detour I suppose. I will back off if you feel it derails from Dylan-talk.

Nah, man. Not at all, you guys. You and Zeno are having Dylan talk by the very essence of the argument. 

eta* Plus, I'm talking about The Cars, MCR, and Lorde in the past few postings. :shrugs:

Edited by rockaction
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16 minutes ago, rockaction said:

There's really no need to argue about it, in my opinion. It's sort of moot anyway. I'd have a hard time recommending The Broom Of The System for somebody interested in an entry point to David Foster Wallace, for another example to the contrary. Simply advocating the first work doesn't hold with what you're trying to do in inculcating a new listener to the oeuvre of the author/musician/poet/etc. 

Sometimes an entry work is just that. A place to start with the most cohesive and accessible piece that is representative of the artist's work as a whole. As far as an entry to Dylan (for deeper cuts than those that reside on the surface of culture or greatest hits comps) to hear House Of The Rising Sun for the hundredth time in my life, done lesser than even the Animals? No thanks. I already have my Leadbellys, Hookers, Johnsons, Rodgers's, Cash's (Cash comes later than Americana/folk/Roots Rock/etc.) and the like. 

Like I mentioned if a new listener plans on never listening to another Dylan album then you go with Highway 61 Revisited, that is Dylan at his best. But who does that?  Once you listen ti any Dylan you will be wanting all you can find.  So I'd start back where it all started to begin with, but.......just me.

As far as I know Hooker/Johnson'/Rodgers never recorded House of the Rising Sun, so...???

 

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Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

That is fine, everyone has their perogative. I just think (depending on the artist) you run a great risk of turning the person off. Again, the first several Hitchcock movies aren't very good, are silent, etc. They aren't much like the films he is remembered for and wouldn't interest most movie goers like a NxNW or Psycho. Same with Dylan. I think for many people who have the potential to like Dylan's music, if there first encounter with it was his debut album, they would be turned off. 

I totally disagree about anyone listening to Dylan's debut album being turned off. I thought it was great and do own all of Dylans stuff.

 

Billboard Magazine.

At the time of its release, however, Bob Dylan received little notice, and both Hammond and Dylan were soon dismissive of the first album's results. In the April 14, 1962 issue of Billboard magazine it was highlighted as a 'special merit' release, saying; "(Dylan) is one of the most interesting, and most disciplined youngster to appear on the pop-folk scene in a long time" and "moving originals such as "Song to Woody" and "Talkin' New York". Dylan when he finds his own style, could win a big following.

 

Edited by ZenoRazon

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1 minute ago, ZenoRazon said:

As far as I know Hooker/Johnson'/Rodgers never recorded House of the Rising Sun, so...???

Yep.

And fair enough on your points, I was just thinking that the entry point is different than starting with the debut. Not a big bone of contention, really. I had definite interest in listening to Dylan's first, which is why I did. 

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5 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Yep.

And fair enough on your points, I was just thinking that the entry point is different than starting with the debut. Not a big bone of contention, really. I had definite interest in listening to Dylan's first, which is why I did. 

You mentioned Lead Belly, how can we ignore those 1934 Angola Prison sides?  The very first time we hear Huddie Ledbetter he was a prisoner at Angola. We can't ignore them.

The great Muddy Waters was first recorded on his front porch on the Stovall Plantation, this is important.

Mississippi Fred McDowell was on a tracker when Alan Lomax asked him if he could come in a sing a few songs.  He was recorded in his living room.

I just find those first recordings by anyone as being more important than what came later, maybe not as good, but more important.

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Missed this thread- too much politics I guess. 

Im going to recommend one of Dylan’s lesser known albums: New Morning from 1971. All sorts of hidden gems on this. 

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6 minutes ago, ZenoRazon said:

You mentioned Lead Belly, how can we ignore those 1934 Angola Prison sides?  The very first time we hear Huddie Ledbetter he was a prisoner at Angola. We can't ignore them.

The great Muddy Waters was first recorded on his front porch on the Stovall Plantation, this is important.

Mississippi Fred McDowell was on a tracker when Alan Lomax asked him if he could come in a sing a few songs.  He was recorded in his living room.

I just find those first recordings by anyone as being more important than what came later, maybe not as good, but more important.

More important perhaps, but harder to listen to. The recordings start to get good in the 60s with modern sounding equipment. Fred McDowell, Skip James, Son House are all examples of this. 

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, timschochet said:

More important perhaps, but harder to listen to. The recordings start to get good in the 60s with modern sounding equipment. Fred McDowell, Skip James, Son House are all examples of this. 

The sound quality is part of the deal, I want the music to sound like what it really is....old. Ah.....to a point, as you probably know some of the first Skip James recordings simply can't be listened to it's that bad.  But most the time all that stuff is ....ok.

Those Robert Johnson recordings all sound great.

Edited by ZenoRazon

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2 minutes ago, ZenoRazon said:

The sound quality is part of the deal, I want the music to sound like what it really is....old. Ah.....to a point, as you probably know some of the first Skip James recordings simply can't be listened to it's that bad.  But most the time all that stuff is ....ok.

Those Robert Johnson recordings all sound great.

I guess we see (hear) it differently. 

The Robert Johnson stuff is remarkable, no question. But it’s like studying a great painting by Picasso- I’m not listening to Johnson for pleasure, to hum along. It’s too crackly for that. If I want classic blues music to listen and hum to as part of a playlist, give me Skip James from the 60s, or Muddy, or Howlin’- I need that modern recording. 

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There are only a few real icons when it comes to American music, Bob Dylan is one of them.  In a case like this you will want his story, not just an album.  I am taking that into considersation with this. How can you ignore the 40's when it comes to Frank Sinatra who recorded far better stuff much later?  Those Sun Record recording that launched Elvis

1 minute ago, timschochet said:

I guess we see (hear) it differently. 

The Robert Johnson stuff is remarkable, no question. But it’s like studying a great painting by Picasso- I’m not listening to Johnson for pleasure, to hum along. It’s too crackly for that. If I want classic blues music to listen and hum to as part of a playlist, give me Skip James from the 60s, or Muddy, or Howlin’- I need that modern recording. 

I never thought of any of that Robert Johnson stuff as being too crackly at all.

And the best Skip James is the original....Hard Time Killing Floor...from 1930, can debate Devil Got My Woman.

I have Howlin' Wolf very first recording done at  Sun Records in the early 50's, they sound great.  As does all of those 1940 sides by Muddy Waters.

There are a few Tommy Johnson sides than are really bad, but like I said most the time all that old stuff simply sounds old.

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When some one acts like a know it all and that their was is the only way, it’s best to move along and let him live in that fantasy world.

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

When some one acts like a know it all and that their was is the only way, it’s best to move along and let him live in that fantasy world.

When anyone proves to me they know the whatever is being talked about I want to know how they do it.  I might pick up on something that can help me.

The great Muddy Waters was discovered by accident. Alan Lomax who worked for The Library of Congress was looking for Robert Johnson they wanted him for a concert, Lomax not knowing Johnson had been killed a couple years before. But he was told about another guy who could play and sing about as good over on the Stovall Plantation.

Well when this big car pulls up full of white guys looking for a McKinkly Morganfield, Muddy took off an hid, he thought they were the law about his moonshine business, ha!  They finally fixed the problem and this would be his first time on record.

Little stuff like that enhances the whole trip.

Kinda like the Pat Hare story. His big song....Going to Murder My Baby.  Well he'd die in prison, yep, he murdered his baby.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BA7CzdYdyu8

 

Edited by ZenoRazon

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14 minutes ago, ZenoRazon said:

When anyone proves to me they know the whatever is being talked about I want to know how they do it.  I might pick up on something that can help me.

Not the point - information is good. Acting like something must be done the way YOU think it should and no one else can be right, not so good.

Odd that you were the one that felt disrespected by a comment that was left ambiguous as to who was the subject of it.

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6 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

Not the point - information is good. Acting like something must be done the way YOU think it should and no one else can be right, not so good.

Odd that you were the one that felt disrespected by a comment that was left ambiguous as to who was the subject of it.

You are far more serious about this stuff than I am, do it anyway ya want who really cares?  I  just know most the time people get curious about an artists first stuff.

You seem too wrapped up in posters, the music is the story here, ok?

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1 minute ago, ZenoRazon said:

You are far more serious about this stuff than I am, do it anyway ya want who really cares?  I  just know most the time people get curious about an artists first stuff.

You seem too wrapped up in posters, the music is the story here, ok?

Fair enough. I'll bow out and let the thread return to what it's about. You do what you do best as well.

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Just now, Dr. Octopus said:

Fair enough. I'll bow out and let the thread return to what it's about. You do what you do best as well.

Thank you.

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1 hour ago, ZenoRazon said:

I totally disagree about anyone listening to Dylan's debut album being turned off. I thought it was great and do own all of Dylans stuff.

 

Billboard Magazine.

At the time of its release, however, Bob Dylan received little notice, and both Hammond and Dylan were soon dismissive of the first album's results. In the April 14, 1962 issue of Billboard magazine it was highlighted as a 'special merit' release, saying; "(Dylan) is one of the most interesting, and most disciplined youngster to appear on the pop-folk scene in a long time" and "moving originals such as "Song to Woody" and "Talkin' New York". Dylan when he finds his own style, could win a big following.

 

If someone isn't custom to folk or old blues, the original Dylan album might not get their attention. My guess is most Dylan fans my age were drawn in by "Like a Rolling Stone", "Tangled Up in Blue" and "Rainy Day Women".  My familiarity with those songs is what prompted me to buy "Highway 61". If I had bought his self-titled album, I am not sure I would have become the full on fan I am today because it wasn't a sound I appreciated as much at age 14. You seem to be looking at it from the perspective of assuming everyone is ready to love blues and folk music- they aren't. Especially for younger audiences, they sound extremely foreign and without context. I also think people are perfectly capable of going scattershot through an artists work and being able to understand the timeline and piece together the progression. I didn't listen to rock and roll music in chronological order but I understand it's origins, divisions and development. 

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1 hour ago, rockaction said:

Nah, man. Not at all, you guys. You and Zeno are having Dylan talk by the very essence of the argument. 

eta* Plus, I'm talking about The Cars, MCR, and Lorde in the past few postings. :shrugs:

Love The Cars- couldn't be further from the early Dylan albums style wise. Unlike Dylan, they are a band where one should start out with the debut. They came out fully fleshed and ready to go. 

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Getting at the roots of Dylan 

Quote

 

Once, if my memory serves me well, my life was a banquet where every heart revealed itself, where every wine flowed.

One evening I took Beauty in my arms - and I thought her bitter - and I insulted her.

I steeled myself against justice.

I fled. O witches, O misery, O hate, my treasure was left in your care!

I have withered within me all human hope. With the silent leap of a sullen beast, I have downed and strangled every joy.

I have called for executioners; I want to perish chewing on their gun butts. I have called for plagues, to suffocate in sand and blood. Unhappiness has been my god. I have lain down in the mud, and dried myself off in the crime-infested air. I have played the fool to the point of madness.

And springtime brought me the frightful laugh of an idiot.

Now recently, when I found myself ready to croak! I thought to seek the key to the banquet of old, where I might find an appetite again.

That key is Charity. - This idea proves I was dreaming!

"You will stay a hyena, etc...," shouts the demon who once crowned me with such pretty poppies. "Seek death with all your desires, and all selfishness, and all the Seven Deadly Sins."

Ah! I've taken too much of that: - still, dear Satan, don't look so annoyed, I beg you! And while waiting for a few belated cowardices, since you value in a writer all lack of descriptive or didactic flair, I pass you these few foul pages from the diary of a Damned Soul.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

If someone isn't custom to folk or old blues, the original Dylan album might not get their attention. My guess is most Dylan fans my age were drawn in by "Like a Rolling Stone", "Tangled Up in Blue" and "Rainy Day Women".  My familiarity with those songs is what prompted me to buy "Highway 61". If I had bought his self-titled album, I am not sure I would have become the full on fan I am today because it wasn't a sound I appreciated as much at age 14. You seem to be looking at it from the perspective of assuming everyone is ready to love blues and folk music- they aren't. Especially for younger audiences, they sound extremely foreign and without context. I also think people are perfectly capable of going scattershot through an artists work and being able to understand the timeline and piece together the progression. I didn't listen to rock and roll music in chronological order but I understand it's origins, divisions and development. 

Who was Bob Dylan?  Yep, a fan of Woody Guthrie, Lead Belly, Bukka White, Blind Lemon Jefferson, Roy Acuff,Blind Willie McTell,  he was folk and blues so why play pretend?  That was who he was and a true music lover needs to know this.  What came later was more.....we need what sells....much like what happended to The Rolling Stones who wanted to be a blues band, but....not where that $$$$ was.

Bill Monroe sold as did Bob Wills as did Hank Williams, hell Woody Guthrie did just fine, the guy is a legend playing folk/blues.

Why this need to talk kids?  A lot of adults listen to music.

Where would you start with Ernest Tubb or Patsy Cline, how about Jimmie Rodgers, the Carter Family?

Edited by ZenoRazon

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4 minutes ago, ZenoRazon said:

Who was Bob Dylan?  Yep, a fan of Woody Guthrie, Lead Belly, Bukka White, Blind Lempn Jefferson, Roy Acuff, he was folk and blues so why play pretend?  That was who he was and a true music lover needs to know this.  What came later was more.....we need what sells....much like what happended to

He was what he was untill he wasn't anymore and it had little to do with record sales. 

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Going electric, adopting techniques/style from beat poets, Baudelaire, Rimbaud and creating 6 minute long pop singles wasn't Dylan bending to whim of record companies. It was Dylan evolving. 

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Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

Going electric, adopting techniques/style from beat poets, Baudelaire, Rimbaud and creating 6 minute long pop singles wasn't Dylan bending to whim of record companies. It was Dylan evolving. 

Who said anything about record companies?  I have no doubts he could see the potential to make more $$$$$ (for Bob) if he got more rocker and less folkster.

Dylan never really did evolve too far away from his roots, even in his more recent stuff we have songs by Charley Patton. 

Bottom line is unless you heard his real early stuff you won;t get who the guy really was. Exactly like Tom Waits, just like Gene Autry who started out a blues singer. Look where The Beatles ended up compared to....Love Me Do,

 

Edited by ZenoRazon

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2 hours ago, ZenoRazon said:

Like I mentioned if a new listener plans on never listening to another Dylan album then you go with Highway 61 Revisited, that is Dylan at his best. But who does that?  Once you listen ti any Dylan you will be wanting all you can find.  So I'd start back where it all started to begin with, but.......just me.

As far as I know Hooker/Johnson'/Rodgers never recorded House of the Rising Sun, so...???

 

The irony here of course being Dylan's own non-linear nature. Eventually, those who delve in will get there and get some perspective on how things unfolded on a chronological time-line. But it isn't the least bit necessary to get in deep. That first album is not likely to appeal to anybody these days who is not already a Dylan-phile.

I know this is the internet, but let's not over-think it.

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21 minutes ago, ZenoRazon said:

Who said anything about record companies?  I have no doubts he could see the potential to make more $$$$$ (for Bob) if he got more rocker and less folkster.

Dylan never really did evolve too far away from his roots, even in his more recent stuff we have songs by Charley Patton. 

 

Perhaps. He already had sevel gold albums in the US and UK. Freewheelin went platinum. He was super successful and then when he went electric, the folk scene referred to his new music as "tenth rate drivel" and so he was running the risk of killing a very successful career. Folk was big business in the early 60s. His big single off his all rock debut was 6 minutes long which isn't the kind of move someone in search of cash makes. I don't see an artist on a money grab. His music kept a lot of it's blues/folk core but he also was influenced by country, rock, at one point he went full 80s synths, he had his Christian period, the Kerouac, William Blake, Ginsberg and many writers were just as impactful on him as any folk or blues artist. While his debut pays homage to the folk/blues forefathers, it doesn't offer a fully formed version of Bob Dylan. He's the greatest songwriter of our time and he only wrote 2 songs on the album. That is enough to push it way down on the list of albums I would recommend of his. 

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9 hours ago, ZenoRazon said:

I always start at the beginning, it's simply how you'd want to do things if curious about an author, a band, a individual artist.  You get that....what did they sound like in the beginning.....out of the way.

 

I do own all of Dylans stuff, some on tapes, some on CD's.

 

I become curious about the artist later, only after being blown away by their work. I don't care about the author or artist until they captivate me. But knock yourself out. You seem to be quite proud of this odd approach.

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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, Apple Jack said:

The irony here of course being Dylan's own non-linear nature. Eventually, those who delve in will get there and get some perspective on how things unfolded on a chronological time-line. But it isn't the least bit necessary to get in deep. That first album is not likely to appeal to anybody these days who is not already a Dylan-phile.

I know this is the internet, but let's not over-think it.

Anyone wanting to hear some Bob Dylan knows who he was/is.  They don't expect him to sound like this stuff today, they know he first started out in the 60's.  They will be expecting to hear that music. 

Why bother with some dude who played that long ago if you aren't into that kind of thing?

i just found a CD a few days ago ....The Best of Ragtime.  Here we have Scott Joplin from 1917, Jellyroll Morton 1924, Fats Waller 1923 and a few other oldies.  I'm expecting to hear......oldies...and I did.

Edited by ZenoRazon

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

Perhaps. He already had sevel gold albums in the US and UK. Freewheelin went platinum. He was super successful and then when he went electric, the folk scene referred to his new music as "tenth rate drivel" and so he was running the risk of killing a very successful career. Folk was big business in the early 60s. His big single off his all rock debut was 6 minutes long which isn't the kind of move someone in search of cash makes. I don't see an artist on a money grab. His music kept a lot of it's blues/folk core but he also was influenced by country, rock, at one point he went full 80s synths, he had his Christian period, the Kerouac, William Blake, Ginsberg and many writers were just as impactful on him as any folk or blues artist. While his debut pays homage to the folk/blues forefathers, it doesn't offer a fully formed version of Bob Dylan. He's the greatest songwriter of our time and he only wrote 2 songs on the album. That is enough to push it way down on the list of albums I would recommend of his. 

Where are  you getting the greatest song writer of our time from?

I can't say this enought, there is plenty of time to delve into....BEST OF/ESSENTIAL/DEFINITIVE Bob Dylan, but.....that comes after you are introducted to just who this guy was and what he was all about.  See him at his start, that is how I;d want somebody to bring it to me.  I want to see where it all started right off the bat. And since I knowe all about Bukka White, Blind Lemon Jeffeson, I can see he must have seen a bit of an historian since those cats recorded long ago, something I wouldn't know listening to his later stuff.

 

Edited by ZenoRazon

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19 minutes ago, Apple Jack said:

I become curious about the artist later, only after being blown away by their work. I don't care about the author or artist until they captivate me. But knock yourself out. You seem to be quite proud of this odd approach.

This was never.....here check this guy out.  It was always....I want to hear Bob Dylan.  If....check this guy out, then ya throw the best they have ever recorded at them.  If a guy asks a listen then you do a proper intro, which is show them who he really is.

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I'm definitely thinking that Freewheelin' is a nice compromise between where he started out and his own voice being the main focus of the music. Cut your teeth and hone your critical ear performing traditional folk and Americana, venture out into your own voice later. Ahhh, yes. Freewheelin' sounds like the album to own.

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1 minute ago, otb_lifer said:

:fishing:

Endlessly falling, the sands of the hourglass...turn it over for the next three minute segment

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Posted (edited)

I do get why you'd pick a first album as representative of the artist, but the theory I'd be putting forth is both non-absolute and contingent on the album being an original album of originals. 

Edited by rockaction
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3 minutes ago, rockaction said:

I do get why you'd pick a first album as representative of the artist, but the theory I'd be putting forth is both non-absolute and contingent on the album being an original album of originals. 

best examples would be bands who never quite evolved or shifted gears like Bob did ... most notable to me would be Van Halen and the Ramones ... Ozzy era Sabbath, as well. 

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