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Official US Women's soccer thread: Gold Cup Final- US 1 - Brazil 0! (5 Viewers)

Dinsy Ejotuz said:
Meh.
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I'm really not a huge fan of the USWNT and this seems way, way overblown. I think it's a bit cheeky, a bit funny. It's indisputably American in smack talk.

I don't know, man. It's hardly as offensive as when the Spanish basketball team posed by making slanted eyes before a match with a team from Asia. That was a little different, a little over-the-top and racially charged. If the Brits pulled or yanked our chain, I don't think I'd complain.

 
otb_lifer said:
... anyways, back to more pressing matters of this morning, re: Lionesses vs the Sweet ...

how do teams usually fare in these conso games? is it a matter of simply going through the motions and just wanting to get off the pitch and get home?

i would think England gotta be the more vulnerable team, emotion wise, seeing as how they were so close vs. us - conversely, the Sweet are playing with house money, they have nothing to lose. 

so, to you more savvy footy folk, what can we expect today?

Teacups  -125

Draw +245

Sweets +345

:popcorn:
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I liken it to when a big college team has to settle for a fleabag bowl after losing a chance to make the playoff.  Good spot for the dog and tie.

 
Leroy Hoard said:
I liken it to when a big college team has to settle for a fleabag bowl after losing a chance to make the playoff.  Good spot for the dog and tie.
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huh ... right after your post the line took a nice shift, current look:

Teacups +115

Kissin' yer Sister +225

Foxes on the Run +240

hmmm ...

ETA: meh, i settled for 'Both Teams to Score' plunked $225 down at -120.

 
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JaxBill said:
I follow a couple British footy writers on Twitter and it seems like the US press is more outraged and insulted than the Brits.

BBC writer-

@philmcnulty: Ridiculous that @alexmorgan13 has had to explain/defend her goal celebration against England. Was anyone actually seriously offended or angered by it? If so, they must not have very much to get offended or angered about. https://twitter.com/BBCSport/status/1147185872187490305
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This is what I’ve seen and heard from Brit fans as well. The tabloids are pushing this narrative because...money.

ETA: my English neighbor said to me, “If they [english women] would’ve won, they’d be acting like utter c**** as well”

 
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soooo ... looks like the Teacups used all their energy crying about #AM13  :shrug:

what a pathetic display thus far  :X

 
not for nuttin', but -  England shot up to +1875 after the Sweets deuce, Sister Kissin' jumped to +610.

currently +490/+275 

:ptts:

 
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ChiefD said:
I love her. I just do. There, I said it. I love her and I don’t care if the world knows it. 
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ditto, my good man - what a talented, tempestuous beauty she is  :wub:

#AM13  #LFG 🇺🇸  #USAvsEVERYBODY

 
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ChiefD said:
I love her. I just do. There, I said it. I love her and I don’t care if the world knows it. 
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Me too.  And it clearly is solely due to her soccer skill and attitude.  I am in no way objectifying her body or looks....

 
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Dinsy Ejotuz said:
USA 80-20 Netherlands to hoist the silverware.  Netherlands at 15/4 seems like a good bet to me.
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oh, hellz yeah ... look, as much as i love our ladies, the gambler in me has but ONE allegiance: my wallet. 

damn straight im'ma hedge back on the Van Bredakoff's for a nice plunk - coin is king. 

 
General Malaise said:
Like....who? 
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Athletes I grew up with. Football, soccer, swimming, sailing, gymnastics...  public HS b/c students who were very good at their sports. Not dumb kids by any means, but not smart. The types that might not make a connection between England and tea.

My brother had a class or two with elway- said he wasn't too sharp either.

Eta..  just remembered another B kid who was a good water skiier. Cal. My acceptance to cal was going to admissions with their soccer coach, handing them my transcript and SAT scores- immediate acceptance on the spot. And I'm a blithering idiot.

 
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El Floppo said:
Athletes I grew up with. Football, soccer, swimming, sailing, gymnastics...  public HS b/c students who were very good at their sports. Not dumb kids by any means, but not smart. The types that might not make a connection between England and tea.
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aysfkm? do you not think she knew exactly what she was doing?  c'mon .. 

El Floppo said:
My brother had a class or two with elway- said he wasn't too sharp either 
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:unsure:

 
If I was hired as a mediator on the US WNT vs US Soccer equal pay issue, this would be my starting proposal:

1) All USWNT members will give up their yearly NWSL club salaries paid by US Soccer

2) US Soccer will donate to the NWSL, in 2019 dollars, the exact same amount of money they donated to MLS back in 1995, for the NWSL to use as they see fit

3) All books will be open.   US Soccer will work with each sponsor and broadcaster to get a break down of the contract that should go to the USWNT, USMNT, amateurs, youth soccer etc.*

4) The USMNT and USWNT will each receive the exact same % of said total revenue (game day revenue from gender specific games, the gender specific portion of sponsorship, the gender specific portion of TV etc) as part of their game day pay.

5) The USMNT and USWNT will each the exact same % of the total prize money won from any tournaments as part of the bonus pool.

6) To help balance the first point, the USWNT will be given the option to opt out of the current CBA signed in 2017, and sign a brand new CBA with the new conditions in place if they so choose.

7) The exact same options will be used when the USMNT CBA expires.

*This is the most difficult item as sponsors may not be willing to give this information out when they bundle their sponsorship's to US Soccer.  NDA's or stronger items may be needed to protect the sponsors.

 
NewlyRetired said:
If I was hired as a mediator on the US WNT vs US Soccer equal pay issue, this would be my starting proposal:

1) All USWNT members will give up their yearly NWSL club salaries paid by US Soccer

2) US Soccer will donate to the NWSL, in 2019 dollars, the exact same amount of money they donated to MLS back in 1995, for the NWSL to use as they see fit

3) All books will be open.   US Soccer will work with each sponsor and broadcaster to get a break down of the contract that should go to the USWNT, USMNT, amateurs, youth soccer etc.*

4) The USMNT and USWNT will each receive the exact same % of said total revenue (game day revenue from gender specific games, the gender specific portion of sponsorship, the gender specific portion of TV etc) as part of their game day pay.

5) The USMNT and USWNT will each the exact same % of the total prize money won from any tournaments as part of the bonus pool.

6) To help balance the first point, the USWNT will be given the option to opt out of the current CBA signed in 2017, and sign a brand new CBA with the new conditions in place if they so choose.

7) The exact same options will be used when the USMNT CBA expires.

*This is the most difficult item as sponsors may not be willing to give this information out when they bundle their sponsorship's to US Soccer.  NDA's or stronger items may be needed to protect the sponsors.
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Why would sponsors ever agree to this?  Seems really far fetched. 

 
culdeus said:
Why would sponsors ever agree to this?  Seems really far fetched. 
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That is why I put the bullet at the bottom.  The sponsors have the exact information since that is how they decide what the total value of the sponsorship deal will be but as I said, I agree they will be likely unwilling to share the data.

But we also have to acknowledge that with out this information, it is literally impossible to create any sort of fair pay based on revenue.

The other choice would be to get only gender specific sponsorship's and tv deals but I think every one loses in that case.

 
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NewlyRetired said:
If I was hired as a mediator on the US WNT vs US Soccer equal pay issue, this would be my starting proposal:

1) All USWNT members will give up their yearly NWSL club salaries paid by US Soccer

2) US Soccer will donate to the NWSL, in 2019 dollars, the exact same amount of money they donated to MLS back in 1995, for the NWSL to use as they see fit

3) All books will be open.   US Soccer will work with each sponsor and broadcaster to get a break down of the contract that should go to the USWNT, USMNT, amateurs, youth soccer etc.*

4) The USMNT and USWNT will each receive the exact same % of said total revenue (game day revenue from gender specific games, the gender specific portion of sponsorship, the gender specific portion of TV etc) as part of their game day pay.

5) The USMNT and USWNT will each the exact same % of the total prize money won from any tournaments as part of the bonus pool.

6) To help balance the first point, the USWNT will be given the option to opt out of the current CBA signed in 2017, and sign a brand new CBA with the new conditions in place if they so choose.

7) The exact same options will be used when the USMNT CBA expires.

*This is the most difficult item as sponsors may not be willing to give this information out when they bundle their sponsorship's to US Soccer.  NDA's or stronger items may be needed to protect the sponsors.
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Or you could just dump money into the woman’s sport to continue to drive the game forward and create more interest in something that is clearly growing and thriving.  Some of these points sound too much like asking why there isn’t a white history month or something. Clearly there hasn’t been an equal history between these two sports. Time to grow one and catch it up. 

 
Capella said:
Or you could just dump money into the woman’s sport to continue to drive the game forward and create more interest in something that is clearly growing and thriving. 
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meh - women's soccer is like the olympics.  It gets plenty of attention in championship years - only because the US is good - but nobody is clamoring for more of the sport outside of that window.

 
Every argument, sound byte and quote from the women's team and those that support them use the men as a reference point. Seems to me that giving them the exact same percentage of revenue(no more, no less) would be exactly what they want. :shrug:

Obviously the sponsorship money is a big variable here. I have no idea how much money that is or what percentage of US soccer's revenue comes from it.  

Of course, this is all just a pipe dream. The women almost certainly want to make the same dollar figure as the men (probably in addition to US soccer continuing to pay their club salaries).  

 
Sinn Fein said:
meh - women's soccer is like the olympics.  It gets plenty of attention in championship years - only because the US is good - but nobody is clamoring for more of the sport outside of that window
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true ... but no USMNT will ever bust through ... i mean, ferchrissakes, ya got the gargantuan NFL, NBA, MLB ... then the NHL, Nascar, Tennis, Pugilistic endeavors ALL >>>> men's soccer. 

love it or leave it, but, the ladies sell #### (excellence/sex appeal) that the men cannot touch atm. 

 
Sinn Fein said:
meh - women's soccer is like the olympics.  It gets plenty of attention in championship years - only because the US is good - but nobody is clamoring for more of the sport outside of that window.
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Nike said something like they’ve never sold this many jerseys before (I don’t know the exact specifics, I’m sure you heard the quote) — clearly there is some kind of appetite for this team/sport. Whether that translates into a successful league, I don’t know, but the USWNT is an incredibly valuable commodity. 

 
otb_lifer said:
true ... but no USMNT will ever bust through ... i mean, ferchrissakes, ya got the gargantuan NFL, NBA, MLB ... then the NHL, Nascar, Tennis, Pugilistic endeavors ALL >>>> men's soccer. 

love it or leave it, but, the ladies sell #### (excellence/sex appeal) that the men cannot touch atm. 
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:shrug:

If the ladies sold it - the sponsors would have bought it.  

Nobody's buying it.  (The soccer - even at the elite, National Team level - really just is not that good.)

Long-term - I think the challenge for the US to keep up with Europe is a tough one.  Europe has league infrastructures in place, and the community mindset to train young girls through a professional setting.  In the US, the men have had to fight to get past the college-track - and I think it will be infinitely harder to do that on the women's side.

 
Sinn Fein said:
:shrug:

If the ladies sold it - the sponsors would have bought it.  

Nobody's buying it.  (The soccer - even at the elite, National Team level - really just is not that good.)

Long-term - I think the challenge for the US to keep up with Europe is a tough one.  Europe has league infrastructures in place, and the community mindset to train young girls through a professional setting.  In the US, the men have had to fight to get past the college-track - and I think it will be infinitely harder to do that on the women's side.
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Nobody is buying it? The ratings are fabulous. 

 
Sinn Fein said:
:shrug:

If the ladies sold it - the sponsors would have bought it.  

Nobody's buying it.  (The soccer - even at the elite, National Team level - really just is not that good.)

Long-term - I think the challenge for the US to keep up with Europe is a tough one.  Europe has league infrastructures in place, and the community mindset to train young girls through a professional setting.  In the US, the men have had to fight to get past the college-track - and I think it will be infinitely harder to do that on the women's side.
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Yeah, I'm gonna disagree with the bolded.

Women's soccer is MILES better than any other mainstream women's team sport in terms of watch-ability/quality of play.  Even though most educated soccer watchers know they couldn't beat a U-17 boys academy team, (not opinion. Fact. They lose to boys that can't legally drive)  that doesn't really show on TV, IMO. As a big sports fan that admittedly never played soccer (but watches a ton) I dont see too many plays where I'm like "ugh. WTF was that". (Hell, I might see more of those in the men's game going forward if we keep rolling Zardes out there)

Compare that to women's basketball (which uneducated viewers claim is "better fundamentally" than the men's game, which is absolute nonsense), women's international soccer is an EXCELLENT product. 

But that still doesn't mean they should be paid "the same" in terms of pure dollars. They SHOULD have access to all the same resources (first class/charter flights, hotel accommodations, safest field conditions possible) as the men's team.

 
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Capella said:
Nobody is buying it? The ratings are fabulous. 
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Yes.  Its an event the US is expected to win.  Everyone loves a winner.  

When the WC is over - lets see how many viewers the NWSL gets...

Its not going to move the needle on the casual fan, and for the die-hard soccer fan - there is simply too much (better) competition.

 
TLEF316 said:
Yeah, I'm gonna disagree with the bolded.

Women's soccer is MILES better than any other mainstream women's team sport in terms of watch-ability/quality of play.  Even though most educated soccer watchers know they couldn't beat a U-17 boys academy team, (not opinion. Fact. They lose to boys that can't legally drive)  that doesn't really show on TV, IMO. As a big sports fan that admittedly never played soccer (but watches a ton) I dont see too many plays where I'm like "ugh. WTF was that". (Hell, I might see more of those in the men's game going forward if we keep rolling Zardes out there)

Compare that to women's basketball (which uneducated viewers claim is "better fundamentally" than the men's game, which is absolute nonsense), women's international soccer is an EXCELLENT product. 

But that still doesn't mean they should be paid "the same" in terms of pure dollars. They SHOULD have access to all the same resources (first class/charter flights, hotel accommodations, safest field conditions possible) as the men's team.
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Agree to disagree.

Overall, the soccer is pretty bad.  Its evenly matched - when you get to the top 6 or so teams - so it looks competitive.  But, it is shockingly bad from a tactics and skill perspective - even among the top-teams.  When you get down to teams 8-whatever - then its just not competitive at all.

 
Sinn Fein said:
Agree to disagree.

Overall, the soccer is pretty bad.  Its evenly matched - when you get to the top 6 or so teams - so it looks competitive.  But, it is shockingly bad from a tactics and skill perspective - even among the top-teams.  When you get down to teams 8-whatever - then its just not competitive at all.
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Again, I'm not on the same level of others on this forum in terms of soccer experience (I have none) or knowledge.  Admittedly, I have no desire to watch any women's soccer game other than the national team. So yeah, I'm sure the Thailand-Chile game was quite ugly. And obviously the US has the ability to embarrass teams outside that small elite tier.

I just know that I can watch the US women's team play a decent opponent, see REALLY good individual plays (Tobin Heath...... :wub: ) and be entertained.

I wouldn't watch any women's basketball game at any level even if they played in my backyard. It's painful. 

Obviously "better than women's BASKETBALL" is a low bar, but US soccer clearly leaps over it for someone like me.

 
TLEF316 said:
Every argument, sound byte and quote from the women's team and those that support them use the men as a reference point. Seems to me that giving them the exact same percentage of revenue(no more, no less) would be exactly what they want. :shrug:
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It seems very logical to me.

As an aside, I think a lot of fans don't really understand that paying the USWNT more is absolutely meaningless in growing the women's side of the sport.   The sport can only grow as the clubs grow, else it becomes nothing more than a once every 4 year side show.  Europe is starting to come to grips with this now and I think it is going to be an exciting growth the next 10-20 years over there.

I like the argument the player who boycotted the WC from Norway gave.   She roughly said she knows they do not deserve any where near the same amount of pay that the men get due to revenue.  But what she is fighting for is to make sure every young girl in Norway is given the same support, facilities, access to fields, coaching etc as the young boys get in their development.

I would be all for our US Women's players fighting that fight, as would I expect nearly every one.  But most if not all of their complaints seem to boil down to "we want more money, and oh yeah please ignore the fact that US Soccer is already paying our club salaries.  Please pay no attention to the man behind the curtain".

==========

In any event, we won't get any real answers to until next year.  The NWSL should see some sort of bump in the second half of the season but next year will be the real tell. 

If it follows the path of every other women's world cup, all the fans who watch now just disappear.  They don't go to club games, they don't watch on tv, for another 4 years.

This is the one item that has kept women's soccer from growing.  The men's side of the sport in the US has had luck growing on the back of the WC,  keeping a small amount of the fans that tune into the WC to become more than once every 4 year types.  The women need the exact same thing to start happening.

 
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