What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Congress will be Voting Themselves a Raise? (1 Viewer)

...and control of the direction of Congress is held by....?

I never claimed that this was a Democrat or Republican issue....I am pretty sure that I said that CONGRESS wants to give themselves a raise.

Others here pointed out which party introduced it and had it been a Congress with a Republican majority....I still would have been pissed....along with others here who are trying to defend it because it has been introduced by Democrats.

At a 20% approval rating, how the hell can anybody defend giving members of Congress more money?
The direction is controlled by the house and the Senate. One is gop controlled and the other dem controlled. It has to get by both. 

And i think it's bull #### that they give themselves raises. Full stop. 

Your angle is clear even if you won't come out and fully state your incorrect point. That point seems to be that"Congress" is controlled by the dems. It's not. Each hold half

 
A lot of Trump supporters remind me of the person that complains incessantly when a refer blows a call that hurts their favorite sports squadron. However when a ref makes a bad call that benefits them, not only do they not point it out, they sit there smugly enjoying the moment. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
The direction is controlled by the house and the Senate. One is gop controlled and the other dem controlled. It has to get by both. 

And i think it's bull #### that they give themselves raises. Full stop. 

Your angle is clear even if you won't come out and fully state your incorrect point. That point seems to be that"Congress" is controlled by the dems. It's not. Each hold half
What do you think should be the proper procedure to give them raises? Or do you think they shouldn't get raises and should be paid the same amount they were getting paid originally? 

 
What do you think should be the proper procedure to give them raises? Or do you think they shouldn't get raises and should be paid the same amount they were getting paid originally? 
Personally,  i don't think they should be paid. It's not a job. It's a duty IMO. 

That said, i think the districts they represent should vote on it. 

 
Personally,  i don't think they should be paid. It's not a job. It's a duty IMO. 

That said, i think the districts they represent should vote on it. 
Not paying them is an effective way to make sure that only independently wealthy people ever have a say in politics. Now, there are other ways we effectively accomplish the same thing, but I think we should be moving toward a more equitable system, not a less equitable system. 

People should be paid for their work. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
A lot of Trump supporters remind me of the person that complains incessantly when a refer blows a call that hurts their favorite sports squadron. However when a ref makes a bad call that benefits them, not only do they not point it out, they sit there smugly enjoying the moment. 
:lmao:

Don't think this quality is unique to Trump supporters.

 
Not paying them is an effective way to make sure that only independently wealthy people ever have a say in politics.
Not all that different than status quo :shrug:

I have a problem floating money out there for a voluntary duty to country outside of military service where you are risking your life especially after you're not even in the position anymore

 
Amazing to me that people feel a need to complain about this. 
No complaints.  I'm sure the Democratic caucus will take this extra money and distribute it among the working poor in their districts.  From (Congress) to those according to their needs.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
A lot of Trump supporters remind me of the person that complains incessantly when a refer blows a call that hurts their favorite sports squadron. However when a ref makes a bad call that benefits them, not only do they not point it out, they sit there smugly enjoying the moment. 
A lot of dem Congress members claim they are the party of the middle class, but have no issues supporting pay increases when the majority are. Worth millions.  They seem to be the New England Patriots of Congress

 
Its a $4500 raise and they haven't had one since 2009?

That doesn't seem like something people should freak out about.
It’s not the money it’s the principle of it.  If I had done my job as poorly as Congress has since 2009 (and long before btw) I wouldn’t have a job much less be discussing a raise.  Truth be told if my business functioned like Congress has we’d have been out of business inside of 2 yrs.   

 
Its a $4500 raise and they haven't had one since 2009?

That doesn't seem like something people should freak out about.
How long ago they had one is irrelevant. What matters is how much they make right now. 174k plus great benefits is overpaid for what they do for us. 

 
It’s not the money it’s the principle of it.  If I had done my job as poorly as Congress has since 2009 (and long before btw) I wouldn’t have a job much less be discussing a raise.  Truth be told if my business functioned like Congress has we’d have been out of business inside of 2 yrs.   


They all get paid the same amount. And some are really good. And some are really bad. So you are comparing your productivity to 538 members. Not exactly an accurate comparison. 

Its kind of like a union when they negotiate. Do all of them deserve raises? Of course not. But some do.

 
It’s not the money it’s the principle of it.  If I had done my job as poorly as Congress has since 2009 (and long before btw) I wouldn’t have a job much less be discussing a raise.  Truth be told if my business functioned like Congress has we’d have been out of business inside of 2 yrs.   
Then we need to stop reelecting the same mother####ers over and over again.  If Americans want change then do it. Quit reelecting these fools .

 
America's are pathetic both sides.  We are the boss here. We keep voting the same fools back in, why should they change. We are letting these guys lie to us, cheat us do nothing for us, because America has become Red vs Blue. We are letting them play us and they are destroying this country.  It shouldn't matter if the are Democrats or Republicans vote for people who are willing to work for us.  Vote the liers and  cheaters. those not working for us out no matter the party or this country is over.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
It’s not the money it’s the principle of it.  If I had done my job as poorly as Congress has since 2009 (and long before btw) I wouldn’t have a job much less be discussing a raise.  Truth be told if my business functioned like Congress has we’d have been out of business inside of 2 yrs.   
Do you think your congressman is doing a poor job representing you?  Do the majority of voters in your district think that he/she is doing a poor job representing them?  If not, you should be working to vote that person out in the next election.

Personally I'm very happy with what I have seen from my representative (Katie Porter) and I don't have a problem with her getting a raise.

 
What do you think should be the proper procedure to give them raises? Or do you think they shouldn't get raises and should be paid the same amount they were getting paid originally? 
They are overpaid right now and I am a social democrat. I still say AOC rejects the raise because it goes against everything she stands for.
OK. I hear you. Now what's your answer to my question? 

 
They all get paid the same amount. And some are really good. And some are really bad. So you are comparing your productivity to 538 members. Not exactly an accurate comparison. 

Its kind of like a union when they negotiate. Do all of them deserve raises? Of course not. But some do.
Sure there are definitely some good ones I’m sure. And you are correct they are kind of like a union when they negotiate so yes I’m then viewing them as a whole and comparing the productively of 538 members.  It’s the only thing we can do, view them as a whole.  And as a whole the are an ineffective partisan self enriching disaster. 

 
Sure there are definitely some good ones I’m sure. And you are correct they are kind of like a union when they negotiate so yes I’m then viewing them as a whole and comparing the productively of 538 members.  It’s the only thing we can do, view them as a whole.  And as a whole the are an ineffective partisan self enriching disaster. 
I think the exact opposite it true.  The only thing any of us have any control over is who our own elected representative is, which was the point of my post above.  Looking at congress a a collective instead of as 538 individuals representing their own district is exactly the wrong way to look at it.

 
I think the exact opposite it true.  The only thing any of us have any control over is who our own elected representative is, which was the point of my post above.  Looking at congress a a collective instead of as 538 individuals representing their own district is exactly the wrong way to look at it.
For voting purposes I completely agree but for raises I disagree.  The idea of giving a raise for 538 people based on the work of one individual makes no sense.  

And while I agree wholeheartedly with your first post it’s also a bit of wish casting and not how Americans vote.  Most see R or D and vote that way and even worse most don’t even know who represents them today.  This situation is completely our fault and we hold all the power, that’s the ironic piece of the 20% approval rating part.  Hell it was even single digits a few years back, yet nothing changes other then a few seats one way or the other.  

 
It’s not the money it’s the principle of it.  If I had done my job as poorly as Congress has since 2009 (and long before btw) I wouldn’t have a job much less be discussing a raise.  Truth be told if my business functioned like Congress has we’d have been out of business inside of 2 yrs.   
I think there a number of people in Congress doing a good job.

There are also a number of people in Congress doing a terrible job.

(People disagree, of course, on which members of Congress are in which category.)

In any case, if we want better people in Congress, one way to attract them is by offering the position more money.

Members of Congress aren’t necessarily giving raises to themselves. (That’s barred by the 27th Amendment to the Constitution.) They’re offering more money to whoever wins the next set of elections. If more money attracts better candidates, current members of Congress are decreasing their own chances at reelection (though probably only very slightly).

The discussion in this thread really should be focused on trying to figure out the appropriate yearly salaries for members of Congress. That seems like a somewhat complicated analysis. It must consider what kinds of people we’re trying to attract to the job, what such people would likely earn elsewhere, etc. I won’t try to do the analysis myself. I also won’t have a strong opinion on the matter without having done so.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
For voting purposes I completely agree but for raises I disagree.  The idea of giving a raise for 538 people based on the work of one individual makes no sense.  

And while I agree wholeheartedly with your first post it’s also a bit of wish casting and not how Americans vote.  Most see R or D and vote that way and even worse most don’t even know who represents them today.  This situation is completely our fault and we hold all the power, that’s the ironic piece of the 20% approval rating part.  Hell it was even single digits a few years back, yet nothing changes other then a few seats one way or the other.  
I just have a hard time thinking of them as different things.   Maybe I'm naive but I have to assume that if someone keeps getting re-elected every two years, their constituents must think they are doing a good job.

 
I think there a number of people in Congress doing a good job.

There are also a number of people in Congress doing a terrible job.

(People disagree, of course, on which members of Congress are in which category.)

In any case, if we want better people in Congress, one way to attract them is by offering the position more money.

Members of Congress aren’t necessarily giving raises to themselves. (That’s barred by the 27th Amendment to the Constitution.) They’re offering more money to whoever wins the next set of elections. If more money attracts better candidates, current members of Congress are decreasing their own chances at reelection (though probably only very slightly).

The discussion in this thread really should be focused on trying to figure out the appropriate yearly salaries for members of Congress. That seems like a somewhat complicated analysis. It must consider what kinds of people we’re trying to attract to the job, what such people would likely earn elsewhere, etc. I won’t try to do the analysis myself. I also won’t have a strong opinion on the matter without having done so.
That is not the case in many districts.  Many in congress run unopposed every election without competition.

 
That is not the case in many districts.  Many in congress run unopposed every election without competition.
If the position paid $20 million a year, I guarantee you that nobody would run unopposed.

I’m not suggesting that we pay $20 million a year. I’m pointing out the general principle that higher pay will attract more (and better) competition.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
If the position paid $20 million a year, I guarantee you that nobody would run unopposed.
You know that is absurd.   Considering that the job pays in the top 5% of all earners is a dam good wage.

19 Dems did not have an opponent and 1 Republican.  So it does not matter if you are doing a good job or not.

 
I just have a hard time thinking of them as different things.   Maybe I'm naive but I have to assume that if someone keeps getting re-elected every two years, their constituents must think they are doing a good job.
There is some truth to that, although a certain percentage of voters always vote for the incumbent, irrespective of how poorly they are doing in their job.

My Congressman, Adam Schiff was elected in a predominantly Republican district in 2000 by defeating incumbent James Rogan, who had led the charge in Congress to impeach Clinton, which didn't sit well his constituents at home.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Not really no. Guarantee you I would have written the same thing if Republicans do it. 

I don’t care about Trump’s vacations either. Dumb to complain about. Let him play golf all he wants so long as he does a good job for the country (he’s not, but that has nothing to do with the golf.) 

Honestly in the scheme of things stuff like this is so unimportant. 
The problem I have with the golf is that trump gave Obama a ton of #### for it and now he plays more, at a significant higher cost to taxpayers, than Obama did. It’s absurdly hypocritical and shouldn’t be overlooked as evidence to his credibility. 

 
Summer Wheat said:
They are overpaid right now and I am a social democrat. I still say AOC rejects the raise because it goes against everything she stands for.
You really think they’re overpaid??

 
at courses that he owns
That too of course. But my understanding is that such cost comes from paying to secure his safety during these trips. So, unless he played Camp David more, the cost to taxpayers is probably around the same whether he plays Trump National or any other country club. In a sense then whether he lines his pockets or some else’s in the private sector it’s essentially irrelevant b/c the cost is the same.

I’d actually be with Tim on this issue if, again, Trump hadn’t made one of his big rallying cries that Obama played too much golf. On its face I take zero issue with a president getting in a round or two of golf per week. To me though it’s the blatant hypocrisy that’s the major issue here. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I am unconcerned with the pay raise.  Maybe tell me about the other benefits, living expenses, travel expenses, allowance to run their offices.  Maybe there is outrage percolating there for me, maybe not. 

 
That too of course. But my understanding is that such cost comes from paying to secure his safety during these trips. So, unless he played Camp David more, the cost to taxpayers is probably around the same whether he plays Trump National or any other country club. In a sense then whether he lines his pockets or some else’s in the private sector it’s essentially irrelevant b/c the cost is the same.

I’d actually be with Tim on this issue if, again, Trump hadn’t made one of his big rallying cries that Obama played too much golf. On its face I take zero issue with a president getting in a round or two of golf per week. To me though it’s the blatant hypocrisy that’s the major issue here. 
I have a buddy that loves Trump and even he admits that he is the biggest hypocrite of all time.  Trump supporters just don't care.

 
FWIW there are a number of high level civil service jobs that are linked to congressional pay, and those people can't get raises until Congress gets one. The people affected by this are generally people with advanced degrees and decades of experience who could be making a lot more money in the private sector. If you don't pay these people they obviously have more motivation leave public service and join "the swamp."  And of course the effect is magnified given the cost of living in Washington DC, which is exorbitant, because there's no COLA to the pay cap. In addition, the pay cap decreases the incentive for lower-ranked employees to work hard and get promoted in many cases because there's no real raise that goes along with it. There are a lot more people and families affected by this than there are members of congress.

I understand that "woe is me, I can only make "$160K a year" is not a sob story by any means. But in addition to the aforementioned absurd cost of living in DC, the labor market doesn't really care about your feelings. If you don't pay those people you get worse people: worse EPA regulators overseeing your air and water, worse DOJ attorneys trying to put the bad guys away, worse legislative staff trying to make Congress more responsive to the voters, worse scientists and public health officials overseeing disaster response efforts, etc. You can't complain about the quality of public service- Congress or otherwise- if you prioritize letting a billionaire pay himself to golf on his own course over paying these people.

 
Maybe we should defray their cost of living by building congressional dorms and requiring them all to stay there.  Imagine the hijinks. Kegger tonight at McConnell's room.  Freaking AOC burned the popcorn again in her microwave, the whole floor stinks.  That fat ******* from _____________ clogged the ####ter, again. 

 
Obviously speculating, but it seems to me traveling to and securing various Trump resorts would be far more costly than a similar trip to Camp David, which has to be old hat by now to the Secret Service, right?  
That's his point. Though, I think he means Andrews, not Camp David, as there is not a golf course at Camp David. Or even Ft. Belvoir.

 
Maybe the cost of living in dc wouldnt be so high if there werent so many people getting paid 160k. 
Yeah, it's the people making $160K driving up the cost of living in DC. Definitely not the armies of government contractors and private sector attorneys and lobbyists and tech people making seven figures. That's why the cost of living is so much lower in similar American cities with thriving industries and lower rates of public sector employment like Boston, San Francisco and New York.

 
The problem I have with the golf is that trump gave Obama a ton of #### for it and now he plays more, at a significant higher cost to taxpayers, than Obama did. It’s absurdly hypocritical and shouldn’t be overlooked as evidence to his credibility. 
Except that if Trump never once mentioned Obama’s golf, or if he never played golf himself, he would still have no credibility and still be a total hypocrite. It’s evidence we don’t need. 

 
Always amazing to me that conservatives who praise the ability of the marketplace to price things 99.9% of the time suddenly find the marketplace useless and irrelevant when it comes to salaries. When it comes to salaries the government is effectively just another private sector actor. If valued employees can get better pay elsewhere, they will leave. And if it pays more, it will get better employees.

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top