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Captain Cranks

Bill Maher wants to coach the Democrats

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and I hope they listen.  New Rules

I've thought for awhile that Democrats need to fight fire with fire.  Trump gives them so much ammunition that they don't use.  He's a thin-skinned whiner.  He sides with our adversaries.  He's a bad businessman.  It's endless.  The Dems need to come up with slogans and names for his bad characteristics and policies and keep repeating them over and over.  Not only will it undermine his strong guy for Americans crap, but it will get under his skin and put him on tilt.  

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Well, Joe Biden pre-released the text of a speech he's giving in Iowa today and it has "It's not about you, Donald" as one of the 36 mentions of Trump in his speech.

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22 minutes ago, wikkidpissah said:

Well, Joe Biden pre-released the text of a speech he's giving in Iowa today and it has "It's not about you, Donald" as one of the 36 mentions of Trump in his speech.

Meh.  That's nothing different than all the other intellectual jabs made at him by Pelosi and company.  They need to get dirtier.  Meaner.  Cut to the core of him.  Make him look like the small-minded, thin-skinned, non-reading whiner that he is.  

Start with a demeaning nickname.  Maher's example was Brokahontas.  I like President Crybaby.  Just keep hammering it.  Over and over by everyone on the left until it's a known term like "Crooked Hillary".  Then when people see him complaining about the dems or Mueller or whatever, they'll slowly transition to seeing him as a big crybaby.  

It's psychological warfare he's using and right now the Dems think this country is better than that.  It's not.  If they want to win the culture war sooner rather than later, they need to start playing the game.  The politics is ugly, but there's too much at stake to be waiting around for the high road to prevail.  

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If you don't think the Dems are already doing effective slogans and names for bad Trump/Gop policies, ask yourself why you can say "tax cuts for billionaires" and everyone immediately knows you're referring to the 2017 Trump/GOP tax law even though there's lots of laws that cut taxes for billionaires and the 2017 law did a lot more than simply cut taxes for billionaires.

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9 minutes ago, Captain Cranks said:

Meh.  That's nothing different than all the other intellectual jabs made at him by Pelosi and company.  They need to get dirtier.  Meaner.  Cut to the core of him.  Make him look like the small-minded, thin-skinned, non-reading whiner that he is.  

Start with a demeaning nickname.  Maher's example was Brokahontas.  I like President Crybaby.  Just keep hammering it.  Over and over by everyone on the left until it's a known term like "Crooked Hillary".  Then when people see him complaining about the dems or Mueller or whatever, they'll slowly transition to seeing him as a big crybaby.  

It's psychological warfare he's using and right now the Dems think this country is better than that.  It's not.  If they want to win the culture war sooner rather than later, they need to start playing the game.  The politics is ugly, but there's too much at stake to be waiting around for the high road to prevail.  

You can't beat a sociopath at his own game. This isn't just a strategy for Trump -- it's embedded into his persona. If you lower yourself to Trump's level, then you're the one who ends up looking like the bad guy.

The way to beat him is to go hard without going low. Buttigieg has done a good job of this, although I think that even he needs to refine his approach a bit.

Maher is the wrong guy to be coaching anyone, but I appreciate the sentiment.

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2 hours ago, Captain Cranks said:

Meh.  That's nothing different than all the other intellectual jabs made at him by Pelosi and company.  They need to get dirtier.  Meaner.  Cut to the core of him.  Make him look like the small-minded, thin-skinned, non-reading whiner that he is.  

Start with a demeaning nickname.  Maher's example was Brokahontas.  I like President Crybaby.  Just keep hammering it.  Over and over by everyone on the left until it's a known term like "Crooked Hillary".  Then when people see him complaining about the dems or Mueller or whatever, they'll slowly transition to seeing him as a big crybaby.  

It's psychological warfare he's using and right now the Dems think this country is better than that.  It's not.  If they want to win the culture war sooner rather than later, they need to start playing the game.  The politics is ugly, but there's too much at stake to be waiting around for the high road to prevail.  

Well, he's using it not so much against Dems but for the entertainment of his base. The President's people are more interested in their enemies than even themselves - it doesn't so much matter what they have but that their enemies be the reason/excuse for it. Each time their leader heats up their enemy, they're happy, so a hot response excites them no matter what it is. That's the buzz in it for em.

I discuss our president as little as possible because the embarrassment of his presence in office is as much our fault as theirs. We have the president we deserve. I'm much more in favor of giving citizens something to vote for than to fall into the trap of voting strictly against. If we deserve a better president, we'll have one. I believe that to my soul.

When i worked in psych hospitals, there was invariably a poster in the nurses' station which kept staff reminded of the flaw in engaging paranoids, narcissists & borderlines on their level. It read, " Y'ever wrestle with a pig? You both get dirty. The pig likes it.".

Edited by wikkidpissah
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I disagree. I think the Democrats should take the high road.  They should be the standard they would set.  The counterpoint here should be between mature, intelligent, Presidential deportment and what we currently have. (I had to restrain myself from characterizing what we currently have.)  A promise of future Presidential behavior, but only after a derisive campaign does not appeal to me.  Model the behavior I will see from you in Office.

 

I understand this is not viscerally appealing, vengeance, retribution being within the normative emotional reaction to a person such as the President.  I will very likely be a lonely voice on this, but there it is. 

Edited by Ditkaless Wonders
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53 minutes ago, Ditkaless Wonders said:

I disagree. I think the Democrats should take the high road.  They should be the standard they would set.  The counterpoint here should be between mature, intelligent, Presidential deportment and what we currently have. (I had to restrain myself from characterizing what we currently have.)  A promise of future Presidential behavior, but only after a derisive campaign does not appeal to me.  Model the behavior I will see from you in Office.

 

I understand this is not viscerally appealing, vengeance, retribution being within the normative emotional reaction to a person such as the President.  I will very likely be a lonely voice on this, but there it is. 

No, I think most people will agree with you. And most people on the left dislike Maher, so I don't think there's any risk of anyone taking his advice.

Dems will do succinct messaging for our current social media-driven, low attention span era.  The aforementioned "tax cuts for billionaires" messaging is a good example.  But hopefully they won't do dumb insults. And hopefully the press will stop breathlessly covering every new dumb insult one the president dreams up.

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9 minutes ago, knowledge dropper said:

Maybe they can organize another parade and wear pink ##### hats?  That’s a sure fire way to show class and elevate the  discourse.  

You should definitely keep minimizing and insulting the grassroots female-led movement in opposition to Trump and conservative policies. I can't see any possible downside.

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4 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

No, I think most people will agree with you. And most people on the left dislike Maher, so I don't think there's any risk of anyone taking his advice.

Dems will do succinct messaging for our current social media-driven, low attention span era.  The aforementioned "tax cuts for billionaires" messaging is a good example.  But hopefully they won't do dumb insults. And hopefully the press will stop breathlessly covering every new dumb insult one the president dreams up.

Can you cite your source for this?

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Stupid, horrible, ridiculous idea.  This is ALL the democrats have been doing.  And they have not been paying any attention, at all, to whom they might want to run against the guy in 2020.  Wasted time and energy.

So now we have 23 candidates running for the democratic nomination, which I pointed out, when it was 18, that this was absurd and yet more evidence that the democratic party is fractured and in deep deep trouble.

They sincerely need to focus on their own party.  a BIG part of the reason President Trump won was the other guys put up a horrible candidate against him.  You would think that might get them to step back and evaluate their party a little--nope...They have gotten worse.  It's a broken party right now, and if they don't focus on their own issues, Trump gets re-elected in 2020.

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"Hope and Change" was ahead of it's time. It would be much more aptly used in this cycle. But that's what happens when you characterize every outgoing administration as evil. The message and tone of the Dem nominee should be about the same though. This is a layup for whoever gets the nod if they simply speak nothing of the Donald and hammer a positive message. But Dems like to make it hard on themselves and never seem to get out of their own way so...

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3 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

So now we have 23 candidates running for the democratic nomination, which I pointed out, when it was 18, that this was absurd and yet more evidence that the democratic party is fractured and in deep deep trouble.

Having a high number of candidates is not a sign of fracturing; it's a sign of confidence that the other party is weak.

(See: the 17 candidates who officially ran for the 2016 Republican nomination.)

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19 minutes ago, Captain Cranks said:

Can you cite your source for this?

None at all. Just my own experiences in the left-leaning twitterverse. He's reviled for his Islamphobia, among other things. A couple days ago leftist hero Katie Porter went viral with these gentle shots at him on his show.

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Just now, [scooter] said:

Having a high number of candidates is not a sign of fracturing; it's a sign of confidence that the other party is weak.

(See: the 17 candidates who officially ran for the 2016 Republican nomination.)

I absolutely and completely disagree.  However I respect your opinion.

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7 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

Stupid, horrible, ridiculous idea.  This is ALL the democrats have been doing.  And they have not been paying any attention, at all, to whom they might want to run against the guy in 2020.  Wasted time and energy.

So now we have 23 candidates running for the democratic nomination, which I pointed out, when it was 18, that this was absurd and yet more evidence that the democratic party is fractured and in deep deep trouble.

They sincerely need to focus on their own party.  a BIG part of the reason President Trump won was the other guys put up a horrible candidate against him.  You would think that might get them to step back and evaluate their party a little--nope...They have gotten worse.  It's a broken party right now, and if they don't focus on their own issues, Trump gets re-elected in 2020.

So, Dems need to narrow down their "absurd" field of 23 candidates, whose presence is evidence that the party is fractured and in deep, deep trouble.

Also, Trump (the product of a large primary field and a party torn between the establishment and Tea Party anger) won because the other guys put up a horrible candidate (a product of a very primary narrow field) against him.

Got it :thumbup:

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This would be playing right into Trump's hands IMO.  Bill is one of the few people that could win a Twitter war against Trump but it's not going to play well with our current group and it's not what I'm looking for in a candidate.

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1 minute ago, supermike80 said:
2 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

Having a high number of candidates is not a sign of fracturing; it's a sign of confidence that the other party is weak.

(See: the 17 candidates who officially ran for the 2016 Republican nomination.)

I absolutely and completely disagree.  However I respect your opinion.

Well, thanks. :lol:

It was a similar situation with the Republicans in 1948. Truman was considered to be a weak candidate, causing a then-record 15 Republicans to enter the race. The Democrats had 16 candidates enter the race in 1976 -- again, they sensed weakness in the other party (and they were right).

Neither the '48 Republicans nor the '76 Democrats were fracturing, and neither party was in deep deep trouble.

Jimmy Carter and Donald Trump each won the presidency in a similar fashion -- they were underdogs in large primary fields, but they each had a strong base which helped set them apart from the large field. Whoever ends up with the largest base in 2020 will likely pull off the same trick.

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3 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

Well, thanks. :lol:

It was a similar situation with the Republicans in 1948. Truman was considered to be a weak candidate, causing a then-record 15 Republicans to enter the race. The Democrats had 16 candidates enter the race in 1976 -- again, they sensed weakness in the other party (and they were right).

Neither the '48 Republicans nor the '76 Democrats were fracturing, and neither party was in deep deep trouble.

Jimmy Carter and Donald Trump each won the presidency in a similar fashion -- they were underdogs in large primary fields, but they each had a strong base which helped set them apart from the large field. Whoever ends up with the largest base in 2020 will likely pull off the same trick.

Dude...Dude.....Politics, heck EVERYTHING is remarkably different now than in 1948!!!!  Or even 1976.   Way different.   So no, not gonna let that tell me that its good the dems have 23 candidates running.  It's not.  

Edited by supermike80

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2 minutes ago, supermike80 said:
5 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

Well, thanks. :lol:

It was a similar situation with the Republicans in 1948. Truman was considered to be a weak candidate, causing a then-record 15 Republicans to enter the race. The Democrats had 16 candidates enter the race in 1976 -- again, they sensed weakness in the other party (and they were right).

Neither the '48 Republicans nor the '76 Democrats were fracturing, and neither party was in deep deep trouble.

Jimmy Carter and Donald Trump each won the presidency in a similar fashion -- they were underdogs in large primary fields, but they each had a strong base which helped set them apart from the large field. Whoever ends up with the largest base in 2020 will likely pull off the same trick.

Dude...Dude.....Politics, heck EVERYTHING is remarkably different now than in 1948!!!!  Or even 1976.   Way different.   So no, not gonna let that tell me that its good the dems have 23 candidates running.  It's not.  

Why do you think that 18 Democrats is a sign of fracturing and deep trouble, but 17 Republicans was not?

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10 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

None at all. Just my own experiences in the left-leaning twitterverse. He's reviled for his Islamphobia, among other things. A couple days ago leftist hero Katie Porter went viral with these gentle shots at him on his show.

I'm surprised you'd draw such sweeping generalizations about "the left" from your experience in a Twitter bubble.  Most of the liberals in my circle like Maher and agree with a lot of his opinions although they're likely far closer to the center than those in the liberal twitterverse.  I don't think you want to ignore those people though since they're the ones you need to sway in the general.    

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2 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

Why do you think that 18 Democrats is a sign of fracturing and deep trouble, but 17 Republicans was not?

I didn't say anything about the republicans at all.  You must be referring to a different poster.

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Just now, supermike80 said:
3 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

Why do you think that 18 Democrats is a sign of fracturing and deep trouble, but 17 Republicans was not?

I didn't say anything about the republicans at all.  You must be referring to a different poster.

Do you think that the large Republican field in 2016 was a sign of fracturing?

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2 minutes ago, knowledge dropper said:

It’s just :lmao: that you guys talk about the “high road” after all the shenanigans of the past 2.5 years.  

Perhaps you've forgotten what the hats were referencing. I'll remind you!  They were referencing the fact that you and your fellow Republicans nominated, elected and continue to support a man after hearing him admit, on tape, that he likes to sexually assault women.

We'll decide for ourselves just how much higher a road we choose to take, but I can promise you it'll be significantly higher than the one you've chosen.

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2 minutes ago, Captain Cranks said:

I'm surprised you'd draw such sweeping generalizations about "the left" from your experience in a Twitter bubble.  Most of the liberals in my circle like Maher and agree with a lot of his opinions although they're likely far closer to the center than those in the liberal twitterverse.  I don't think you want to ignore those people though since they're the ones you need to sway in the general.    

That's fair. I've given a similar reminder in the Biden thread.

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2 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

Perhaps you've forgotten what the hats were referencing. I'll remind you!  They were referencing the fact that you and your fellow Republicans nominated, elected and continue to support a man after hearing him admit, on tape, that he likes to sexually assault women.

We'll decide for ourselves just how much higher a road we choose to take, but I can promise you it'll be significantly higher than the one you've chosen.

:sleep:

Keep telling yourself that.  

Election night riots, Inauguration Day riots, Russian snipe hunt, tax return obsession, Kavanaugh Hearings, the list is endless.  

High Road....

Edited by knowledge dropper

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1 minute ago, supermike80 said:
2 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

Do you think that the large Republican field in 2016 was a sign of fracturing?

I don't know. 

:lmao:

Well, touche.

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1 minute ago, [scooter] said:

:lmao:

Well, touche.

However..i can STILL think the dems are fractured..and 23 candidates aren't the only reason, but I see it as a real sign

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Just now, knowledge dropper said:

:sleep:

Keep telling yourself that.  

Was I mistaken? Did you and your fellow Republicans not nominate and elect and continue to support a man after hearing him admit, on tape, that he likes to sexually assault women? If so please accept my apologies, and I'm sure Biden, Sanders, Warren, Buttigieg or Harris will be happy to have your vote in 2020.

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1 minute ago, TobiasFunke said:

Was I mistaken? Did you and your fellow Republicans not nominate and elect and continue to support a man after hearing him admit, on tape, that he likes to sexually assault women? If so please accept my apologies, and I'm sure Biden, Sanders, Warren, Buttigieg or Harris will be happy to have your vote in 2020.

That’s not what he said. It was more like as a celebrity women throw themselves at him.  He can do anything.  He said that for years.  If you want to continually construe that as assault to suit your political agenda, go ahead.  Obviously, 62+ million Americans didn’t and still don’t.  

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9 minutes ago, knowledge dropper said:

That’s not what he said. It was more like as a celebrity women throw themselves at him.  He can do anything.  He said that for years.  If you want to continually construe that as assault to suit your political agenda, go ahead.  Obviously, 62+ million Americans didn’t and still don’t.  

Yes, I'm the one construing it in a way that suits my political agenda. Not you, the guy ignoring decades of grotesque misogyny and over a dozen accusations of sexual assault that clearly support the most likely explanation of his Access Hollywood confession in favor of narrowly construing the phrase "when you're a star they let you do it" as meaning the women somehow consented to be grabbed by the genitals in advance.

Like I said- there's no road we can take that won't be higher than the one every single Trump supporter has chosen. For this reason and for many, many others.

Keep talking, though! I'm sure you all will reverse your declining numbers with well over half of American voters in no time!

Edited by TobiasFunke
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43 minutes ago, Captain Cranks said:

I'm surprised you'd draw such sweeping generalizations about "the left" from your experience in a Twitter bubble.  Most of the liberals in my circle like Maher and agree with a lot of his opinions although they're likely far closer to the center than those in the liberal twitterverse.  I don't think you want to ignore those people though since they're the ones you need to sway in the general.    

Yes.... but he really is an extreme racist toward Islam, and mainstreams dehumanization of Muslims for millions of people in a really gross way. 

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The idea that the Dems aren't mean enough is beyond funny.  Part of the reason for Trump's success is the decades of snarkiness, fear-mongering and ridicule the left has been hurling for decades.   Trump is a product of Dem's nastiness.  I am not even going to respond to a single reply because I know not one of you will acknowledge it and the cesspool will ridicule it like they always do.  Goodnight.  

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1 minute ago, jon_mx said:

The idea that the Dems aren't mean enough is beyond funny.  Part of the reason for Trump's success is the decades of snarkiness, fear-mongering and ridicule the left has been hurling for decades.   Trump is a product of Dem's nastiness.  I am not even going to respond to a single reply because I know not one of you will acknowledge it and the cesspool will ridicule it like they always do.  Goodnight.  

Oh BS.  This is basically “you started it” to rationalize Trump and his behavior.

Of course a complete bogus point will be ridiculed as it should. 

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Dems:. Trump is a fascist!  Trump is Hitler!  Trump is a racist!  Trump only cares about money!  Trump is a criminal!  Trump is a racist!......

Dems:  I think we are too nice.  

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Just now, jon_mx said:

Dems:. Trump is a fascist!  Trump is Hitler!  Trump is a racist!  Trump only cares about money!  Trump is a criminal!  Trump is a racist!......

Dems:  I think we are too nice.  

He is talking about the candidates. Have they said those things?

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6 hours ago, TobiasFunke said:

None at all. Just my own experiences in the left-leaning twitterverse. He's reviled for his Islamphobia, among other things. A couple days ago leftist hero Katie Porter went viral with these gentle shots at him on his show.

That doesn't seem like a good example. Porter and Maher seemed to get along great.

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6 hours ago, Captain Cranks said:

I'm surprised you'd draw such sweeping generalizations about "the left" from your experience in a Twitter bubble.  Most of the liberals in my circle like Maher and agree with a lot of his opinions although they're likely far closer to the center than those in the liberal twitterverse.  I don't think you want to ignore those people though since they're the ones you need to sway in the general.    

Yeah, it's a little weird to say that Maher is unpopular with liberals when he's got a very popular show and his whole audience, at least his studio audience, is extremely liberal.

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Democrats should just say if you come out to vote you will get to see Donald Trump in an orange jumpsuit.

Campaign posters should be a trump mugshot.

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Didn't watch the clip, but I'll chime in anyways.  It seems to me that you have 3 words to get your point across, slogan wise.  Maybe 4.  There is no room for nuance, no room for complexity.  If you can't distill your message to 4 words or less, it's not going to work.

Build the wall.

Lock her up.

Hope and change.

(Read my lips) No new taxes.

It's the economy, stupid.

Morning again in America.

 

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10 hours ago, jon_mx said:

Dems:. Trump is a fascist!  Trump is Hitler!  Trump is a racist!  Trump only cares about money!  Trump is a criminal!  Trump is a racist!......

Dems:  I think we are too nice.  

That is too nice.  They left off traitor, misogynist and serial sexual assaulter.

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