2019-20 NBA Thread: Blazers sign Carmelo Anthony in attempt to make team actively worse

[timschochet 24,374]

Las Vegas has made the Lakers favorites to win the NBA title. 

[Anarchy99 4,114]

Just now, timschochet said:

Las Vegas has made the Lakers favorites to win the NBA title. 

They were favorites to win even before the AD trade.

[bananafish 6,150]

11 minutes ago, ragincajun said:

As a Pels fan I am still torn on this deal. 

If I were a Pels fan I'd be ecstatic. You guys just got the biggest haul for a star in NBA history and it's not even close (and for a guy with only one year left on his contract at that).

I don't have time to post the myriad of ways that your team just got better, but you'll have Zion, considered to be the best prospect since LeBron (or at least AD),  coming to a team stacked with assets and a GM who knows how to use them.

Think if it this way: this was basically a bet between Griffin and Pelinka on the future of the Lakers. I'd be placing my chips on the guy who knows what he's doing. 

[timschochet 24,374]

9 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

They were favorites to win even before the AD trade.

How can that be? That makes no sense. 

[Anarchy99 4,114]

1 minute ago, timschochet said:

How can that be? That makes no sense. 

Vegas was anticipating the Davis move (or another big name coming to the Lakers). I posted about it last week and was surprised given the roster they had at the time.

[Northern Voice 6,554]

36 minutes ago, Soulfly3 said:

2 MILLION, yes MILLION fans expected in downtown Toronto for the parade today. 

mamma mia.

Already waaaaaaaaaaay behind schedule because of the crowds  

[timschochet 24,374]

3 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

Vegas was anticipating the Davis move (or another big name coming to the Lakers). I posted about it last week and was surprised given the roster they had at the time.

Interesting. Ive never heard of anything like that before. I get that with the GS injuries it’s up for grabs but it seems really strange. 

[bananafish 6,150]

13 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Las Vegas has made the Lakers favorites to win the NBA title. 

I currently see the Lakers as +7:2 favorites. I'll bet you any amount of money at 2:7 that they DON'T win the championship (I'd do 1:11 on my Warriors for similar reasons).

[Alex P Keaton 1,755]

3 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Interesting. Ive never heard of anything like that before. I get that with the GS injuries it’s up for grabs but it seems really strange. 

It's strange that betting markets make assumptions about future actions, and incorporate those assumptions into odds?

The stock market does this every second of every day.

[Jayrod 3,737]

Just now, timschochet said:

Interesting. Ive never heard of anything like that before. I get that with the GS injuries it’s up for grabs but it seems really strange. 

If I had to guess, it was because they were the odds on favorite to land AD and already had LeBron.  That is 2 top 5ish players on the same team.  Everyone will be playing catchup now that Golden State is down to Curry & Draymond for next season.

[bananafish 6,150]

4 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Interesting. Ive never heard of anything like that before. I get that with the GS injuries it’s up for grabs but it seems really strange. 

Nevermind. I see you don't know how gambling works. 

[Doug B 2,660]

15 hours ago, Good Posting Judge said:

16 hours ago, Doug B said:

Can Lonzo Ball legitimately play? I've always held his father's antics against him and assumed without the Big Baller hype and Pop's mouth, Lonzo and brothers weren't much as NBA players.

Lonzo Ball is the one player I didn't want the Pelicans to get. Is he better than I think?

Yes.

... his sub-Shaq FT% -- and his FG%, for that matter -- are not symptoms of a wider-ranging deficiency in pro-level ability? I see people in here saying Lonzo Ball can defend, at least.

...

@wikkidpissah - a shorter Ben Simmons? Simmons puts up basically Detlef Schrempf numbers (a little better, actually) and is still reviled. Lonzo Ball, on the stat sheet at least, seems miles behind Simmons.

[ragincajun 819]

26 minutes ago, bananafish said:

If I were a Pels fan I'd be ecstatic. You guys just got the biggest haul for a star in NBA history and it's not even close (and for a guy with only one year left on his contract at that).

I don't have time to post the myriad of ways that your team just got better, but you'll have Zion, considered to be the best prospect since LeBron (or at least AD),  coming to a team stacked with assets and a GM who knows how to use them.

Think if it this way: this was basically a bet between Griffin and Pelinka on the future of the Lakers. I'd be placing my chips on the guy who knows what he's doing. 

I 100% agree.  I am just torn on  ball mostly.

Edited June 17 by ragincajun

[ragincajun 819]

1 minute ago, Doug B said:

... his sub-Shaq FT% -- and his FG%, for that matter -- are not symptoms of a wider-ranging deficiency in pro-level ability? I see people in here saying Lonzo Ball can defend, at least.

...

@wikkidpissah - a shorter Ben Simmons? Simmons puts up basically Detlef Schrempf numbers (a little better, actually) and is still reviled. Lonzo Ball, on the stat sheet at least, seems miles behind Simmons.

I want to see him start banking it in from the FT line.

[Bucky86 15,620]

48 minutes ago, Soulfly3 said:

2 MILLION, yes MILLION fans expected in downtown Toronto for the parade today. 

mamma mia.

https://twitter.com/12upSport/status/1140610351614111746?s=20

Somebody should educate all their brand new fans.  

[ragincajun 819]

If I was a Lakers fan the one thing I would be concerned with is AD’s injury history.  I do not wish that on anyone but it seemed like for the Pels at least he was always fighting something.

[TobiasFunke 29,266]

7 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Interesting. Ive never heard of anything like that before. I get that with the GS injuries it’s up for grabs but it seems really strange. 

I think maybe the problem is that you're looking at bookmakers as objective entities whose goal is to present accurate odds at a given moment, rather than businesses trying to limit risk exposure as much as possible while still making the odds long enough to entice bets.

 

[ragincajun 819]

A bit of data.

 

https://rotogrinders.com/blog-posts/just-how-injury-prone-is-anthony-davis-1551187

[Good Posting Judge 13,515]

3 minutes ago, Bucky86 said:

https://twitter.com/12upSport/status/1140610351614111746?s=20

Somebody should educate all their brand new fans.  

You can understand their confusion. He has a jersey on that says "Leonard."

[Dr. Octopus 10,171]

3 minutes ago, Good Posting Judge said:

You can understand their confusion. He has a jersey on that says "Leonard."

That and he has a good two inches on the kid he’s standing next to. 

[timschochet 24,374]

17 minutes ago, bananafish said:

Nevermind. I see you don't know how gambling works. 

I don’t. I almost always lose, which is probably why I’m not much of a gambler. 

[Jayrod 3,737]

18 minutes ago, bananafish said:

Nevermind. I see you don't know how gambling works. 

I will say, that I definitely prefer the presence of tim over the likes of modogg & tjnc.

[jvdesigns2002 2,255]

18 minutes ago, Doug B said:

... his sub-Shaq FT% -- and his FG%, for that matter -- are not symptoms of a wider-ranging deficiency in pro-level ability? I see people in here saying Lonzo Ball can defend, at least.

...

@wikkidpissah - a shorter Ben Simmons? Simmons puts up basically Detlef Schrempf numbers (a little better, actually) and is still reviled. Lonzo Ball, on the stat sheet at least, seems miles behind Simmons.

You are being way too dismissive about his impact on the defensive end.   In his rookie year he ranked 3rd in real defensive plus/minus amongst all point guards in the league.  This past season he ranked something like 8th---but 3-4 of the guys ahead of him were not starters.   Defensively he's one of the best point guards in the league.   When he was healthy last season--the Lakers were something like the 15th or 17th best defensive team in the league.  When he went down--they dropped to being one of the worst.  Look at the current landscape of the NBA.  The point guard position is absolutely stuffed with talent.  A player that can defend that position well is a valuable asset. 

[Doug B 2,660]

20 minutes ago, ragincajun said:

If I was a Lakers fan the one thing I would be concerned with is AD’s injury history.  I do not wish that on anyone but it seemed like for the Pels at least he was always fighting something.

In five of his seven seasons, Anthony David has played 68 games or less (call it 4 of 6 if you want to throw out 2018-19). In the other two seasons 2016-17 and 2017-18, he missed seven games each.

[Ditkaless Wonders 15,077]

42 minutes ago, timschochet said:

How can that be? That makes no sense. 

Word leaked about the trade, Vegas responded, the trade was then announced.  The odds anticipated the trade by a few hours.  Simply shows that the Books have access to information before the public.

[wikkidpissah 12,209]

30 minutes ago, Doug B said:

... his sub-Shaq FT% -- and his FG%, for that matter -- are not symptoms of a wider-ranging deficiency in pro-level ability? I see people in here saying Lonzo Ball can defend, at least.

...

@wikkidpissah - a shorter Ben Simmons? Simmons puts up basically Detlef Schrempf numbers (a little better, actually) and is still reviled. Lonzo Ball, on the stat sheet at least, seems miles behind Simmons.

Simmons, healthy, with an offense built around him, 16-8-8 per 36 first 2 seasons. Ball, injured, yet to be handed the keys, 12-7-7 per 36 first 2 seasons. The offensive and defensive vision are almost identical. I can see someone not glomming onto the theory, but it's not ridiculous.

[bananafish 6,150]

25 minutes ago, Jayrod said:

I will say, that I definitely prefer the presence of tim over the likes of modogg & tjnc.

Oh, I don't mind Tim at all. It's just weird to see someone think it's weird for odds to be based on speculation. That's basically all they're based on.

[Doug B 2,660]

18 minutes ago, wikkidpissah said:

Simmons, healthy, with an offense built around him, 16-8-8 per 36 first 2 seasons. Ball, injured, yet to be handed the keys, 12-7-7 per 36 first 2 seasons. The offensive and defensive vision are almost identical. I can see someone not glomming onto the theory, but it's not ridiculous.

I'm trying to come around on Lonzo Ball. I guess I don't abide the social climate of the modern-day NBA, and I just chalked up Lavar Ball and sons as all part of the same clown show. Figured that if his sons were top players, Lavar would be WAY quieter. Felt like Lavar was trying to build a brand based on nothing -- that building the brand came miles before playing good basketball (developing on the sons' abilities, etc.). Thought everyone named "Ball" had misplaced priorities re: Lonzo and his brother ever developing into even good NBA players. 

Upon reading around ... I did pick up that Lonzo Ball shot over 41% from the shorter 3-pt line in college. What do smart observers think happened to his shot in the NBA? Totally the fault of injuries? Man among boys in the PAC-12 (though that's a good hoops conference)? Something else?

Edited June 17 by Doug B

[Bucky86 15,620]

 Glad he's someone else's problem now.

@katienolan
lol lavar just said on first take that the reason he said he didn’t want the lakers to send lonzo to the pelicans is because he DID want them to. “I was playing chess,” he says, which is famously not something a person playing chess would say.

[wikkidpissah 12,209]

10 minutes ago, Doug B said:

I'm trying to come around on Lonzo Ball. I guess I don't abide the social climate of the modern-day NBA, and I just chalked up Lavar Ball and sons as all part of the same clown show. Figured that if his sons were top players, Lavar would be WAY quieter. Felt like Lavar was trying to build a brand based on nothing -- that building the brand came miles before playing good basketball (developing on the sons' abilities, etc.). Thought everyone named "Ball" had misplaced priorities re: Lonzo and his brother ever developing into even good NBA players. 

Upon reading around ... I did pick up that Lonzo Ball shot over 41% from the shorter 3-pt line in college. What do smart observers think happened to his shot in the NBA? Totally the fault of injuries? Man among boys in the PAC-12 (though that's a good hoops conference)? Something else?

problem is as it always was, that the shot takes the same amount of time to get off as a set shot, and we all know where the set shot went (Steph's li'l quickie and Tommy Heinsohn's dreams). you dont get clearance for a shot that takes that long to unfurl in the nba unless you wiiiiide open. but the floor skills are exceptional - perhaps the best passing-lane hawk in the game.

i see the parallels, though. grrrreat vision, Simmons has a better angle, Ball a better handle, Simmons has a block about which hand to shoot with and whether to shoot at all, Ball has a block about that catapultslingshotwhatever he got. Simmons's got the pout now, Lonzo got the dad still. Pat Beverly chested Ball his very first exhib game and Lonzo backed off as he musta done a million times from his old man, instead of stakin his turf. I'd love to see both get out from under cuz there are top 20 ballers in there.

[Long Ball Larry 11,341]

32 minutes ago, Doug B said:

I'm trying to come around on Lonzo Ball. I guess I don't abide the social climate of the modern-day NBA, and I just chalked up Lavar Ball and sons as all part of the same clown show. Figured that if his sons were top players, Lavar would be WAY quieter. Felt like Lavar was trying to build a brand based on nothing -- that building the brand came miles before playing good basketball (developing on the sons' abilities, etc.). Thought everyone named "Ball" had misplaced priorities re: Lonzo and his brother ever developing into even good NBA players. 

Upon reading around ... I did pick up that Lonzo Ball shot over 41% from the shorter 3-pt line in college. What do smart observers think happened to his shot in the NBA? Totally the fault of injuries? Man among boys in the PAC-12 (though that's a good hoops conference)? Something else?

He has definitely tried to build a brand for himself and his family based on Lonzo’s hype coming out of high school, but that was pretty legit.  Everything else is pretty much just hype with no substance.  Though I think that the youngest brother is considered to maybe have a modicum of talent.

[Deamon 3,508]

2 hours ago, Soulfly3 said:

2 MILLION, yes MILLION fans expected in downtown Toronto for the parade today. 

mamma mia.

The Raptors are so last week.

[thecatch 1,917]

16 minutes ago, wikkidpissah said:

problem is as it always was, that the shot takes the same amount of time to get off as a set shot, and we all know where the set shot went (Steph's li'l quickie and Tommy Heinsohn's dreams). you dont get clearance for a shot that takes that long to unfurl in the nba unless you wiiiiide open. but the floor skills are exceptional - perhaps the best passing-lane hawk in the game.

i see the parallels, though. grrrreat vision, Simmons has a better angle, Ball a better handle, Simmons has a block about which hand to shoot with and whether to shoot at all, Ball has a block about that catapultslingshotwhatever he got. Simmons's got the pout now, Lonzo got the dad still. Pat Beverly chested Ball his very first exhib game and Lonzo backed off as he musta done a million times from his old man, instead of stakin his turf. I'd love to see both get out from under cuz there are top 20 ballers in there.

I’m relatively low on Simmons but he has otherworldly, Giannis-type size and athleticism that is going to make him a very good player regardless of what happens with his shot. Lonzo doesn’t have that. Lonzo may be solid defensively but if he never becomes an above average shooter, he’s Ricky Rubio, not an all-NBA candidate. 

[Deamon 3,508]

1 hour ago, Ditkaless Wonders said:

Word leaked about the trade, Vegas responded, the trade was then announced.  The odds anticipated the trade by a few hours.  Simply shows that the Books have access to information before the public.

I wouldn't say it leaked, I'd say they were just the faves to get him.  Last year Philly had like the 2nd highest championship odds at one point simply because there was talk that Lebron would either go to Philly or LA.  Poor guy would have had another title if he chose differently.

[Ditkaless Wonders 15,077]

7 minutes ago, Deamon said:

I wouldn't say it leaked, I'd say they were just the faves to get him.  Last year Philly had like the 2nd highest championship odds at one point simply because there was talk that Lebron would either go to Philly or LA.  Poor guy would have had another title if he chose differently.

Your guess is as good as mine.  I happen to think that the Books have impeccable sources, but it could have been speculation and simply a desire to stay ahead of betting trends fueled by bettor speculation.

[Frostillicus 13,826]

Cris Carter has ties to Kawhi camp and just said on First Things First that 6 teams that will get sit down meetings with Kawhi include Raptors, Clippers, Lakers, Wolves, Knick’s and Nets in no specific order.

[wikkidpissah 12,209]

12 minutes ago, thecatch said:

I’m relatively low on Simmons but he has otherworldly, Giannis-type size and athleticism that is going to make him a very good player regardless of what happens with his shot. Lonzo doesn’t have that. Lonzo may be solid defensively but if he never becomes an above average shooter, he’s Ricky Rubio, not an all-NBA candidate. 

you may be undervaluing a 6'6 point who can switch on anybody and beat most switches on him in today's game but, yeah, a defensive Rubio is his floor

Edited June 17 by wikkidpissah

[Craig_MiamiFL 1,787]

Jrue-Ball-Ingram-Williamson helluva great defensive team. 4 guys that can defend multiple positions. Have the coveted 4th pick and loads of cap space. Really in a spot to pick and choose to do whatever they want. Floor spacing 5 seems like a logical way they go in free agency, I'm just not a big fan of spending a lot on it on a long term deal. Better investment to grab a bit 5 on a cheap deal and allocate the money elsewhere long term. Zion's perfectly capable of playing the 5 for stretches for small ball.

That Jrue-Ball backcourt is gonna be fun to watch if they keep it together. Lonzo really can't ask for a better situation playing alongside Jrue. Watching Jrue-Rondo just dismantle Lillard-McCollom a year ago was fun stuff. Pels having a fantastic offseason. 

Edited June 17 by Craig_MiamiFL

[Good Posting Judge 13,515]

1 hour ago, Bucky86 said:

 Glad he's someone else's problem now.

@katienolan
lol lavar just said on first take that the reason he said he didn’t want the lakers to send lonzo to the pelicans is because he DID want them to. “I was playing chess,” he says, which is famously not something a person playing chess would say.

NOT trapped lol

[Deamon 3,508]

6 minutes ago, Craig_MiamiFL said:

Jrue-Ball-Ingram-Williamson helluva great defensive team. 4 guys that can defend multiple positions. Have the coveted 4th pick and loads of cap space. Really in a spot to pick and choose to whatever they want. Floor spacing 5 seems like a logical way they go, I'm just not a big fan of spending a lot on it on a long term deal. Better investment to grab a bit 5 on a cheap deal and allocate the money elsewhere long term. Zion's perfectly capable of playing the 5 for stretches for small ball.

That Jrue-Ball backcourt is gonna be fun to watch if they keep it together. Lonzo really can't ask for a better situation playing alongside Jrue. Watching Jrue-Rondo just dismantle Lillard-McCollom a year ago was fun stuff. Pels having a fantastic offseason. 

Now go move up to #3.  All-UCLA backcourt and All-Duke frontcourt would be fun.

[thecatch 1,917]

8 minutes ago, wikkidpissah said:

you may be undervaluing a 6'6 point who can switch on anybody and beat most switches on him in today's game but, yeah, a defensive Rubio is his floor

I don’t know why you think he can beat most switches offensively. Defense out of a PG is nice, but unless you have an extremely unique roster construction, it’s hard to win without someone who is an offensive threat at that position. 

[wikkidpissah 12,209]

1 minute ago, thecatch said:

I don’t know why you think he can beat most switches offensively. Defense out of a PG is nice, but unless you have an extremely unique roster construction, it’s hard to win without someone who is an offensive threat at that position. 

i'm bored with you already

[Doug B 2,660]

11 minutes ago, Craig_MiamiFL said:

Jrue-Ball-Ingram-Williamson helluva great defensive team. 4 guys that can defend multiple positions. Have the coveted 4th pick and loads of cap space. Really in a spot to pick and choose to do whatever they want. Floor spacing 5 seems like a logical way they go, I'm just not a big fan of spending a lot on it on a long term deal. Better investment to grab a bit 5 on a cheap deal and allocate the money elsewhere long term. Zion's perfectly capable of playing the 5 for stretches for small ball.

Was hoping Julius Randle would stick around, but he's apparently exercised his player option to enter free agency right now. I guess I can rationalize it and say to myself that Randle is more a PF anyway and that he'd be competing for minutes with Zion. And that while he's played a good amount at the 5, that Randle is not quite a prototypical center at 6'9". But I do like Randle's game and will be sorry to see him go.

[millertyme1 56]

Fake Kawhi

[Bull Dozier 3,158]

41 minutes ago, Craig_MiamiFL said:

Jrue-Ball-Ingram-Williamson helluva great defensive team. 4 guys that can defend multiple positions. Have the coveted 4th pick and loads of cap space. Really in a spot to pick and choose to do whatever they want. Floor spacing 5 seems like a logical way they go, I'm just not a big fan of spending a lot on it on a long term deal. Better investment to grab a bit 5 on a cheap deal and allocate the money elsewhere long term. Zion's perfectly capable of playing the 5 for stretches for small ball.

That Jrue-Ball backcourt is gonna be fun to watch if they keep it together. Lonzo really can't ask for a better situation playing alongside Jrue. Watching Jrue-Rondo just dismantle Lillard-McCollom a year ago was fun stuff. Pels having a fantastic offseason. 

Sounds like Bol Bol is the no brainer for them at #4 then.

[caustic 1,784]

We've reached the "heavily analyze cryptic social media messages from your favorite players" part of the NBA season, and I don't like the looks of this at all! https://twitter.com/SDinwiddie_25/status/1140571646299971585

 

[trader jake 884]

7 minutes ago, caustic said:

We've reached the "heavily analyze cryptic social media messages from your favorite players" part of the NBA season, and I don't like the looks of this at all! https://twitter.com/SDinwiddie_25/status/1140571646299971585

You can't take anything from that at all.  After the fact a bunch of people will post why "they knew ____ was gonna happen" when they saw a post like that, but it's totally non-sensical.  Basically, it's a Rorschach Test for Twitter users.  Don't waste your time on that crap.  If he had also posted two eyes looking around...then you have something. 😶

[Long Ball Larry 11,341]

1 hour ago, Craig_MiamiFL said:

Jrue-Ball-Ingram-Williamson helluva great defensive team. 4 guys that can defend multiple positions. Have the coveted 4th pick and loads of cap space. Really in a spot to pick and choose to do whatever they want. Floor spacing 5 seems like a logical way they go, I'm just not a big fan of spending a lot on it on a long term deal. Better investment to grab a bit 5 on a cheap deal and allocate the money elsewhere long term. Zion's perfectly capable of playing the 5 for stretches for small ball.

That Jrue-Ball backcourt is gonna be fun to watch if they keep it together. Lonzo really can't ask for a better situation playing alongside Jrue. Watching Jrue-Rondo just dismantle Lillard-McCollom a year ago was fun stuff. Pels having a fantastic offseason. 

brook lopez, come on down!

[Northern Voice 6,554]

Toronto fans give Kawhi a "One More Year" chant, Kyle Lowry corrects them and switches them to a "5 More Years" chant. Uncle Dennis holds up the 5 as well. 

"5MoreYears" and "Uncle Dennis" both now trending in Canada  

[elguapo07 268]

3 hours ago, timschochet said:

Interesting. Ive never heard of anything like that before. I get that with the GS injuries it’s up for grabs but it seems really strange. 

And the LAC odds were low as well anticipating Kawhi or someone big headed there.