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Capella

2019-20 NBA Thread: Blazers sign Carmelo Anthony in attempt to make team actively worse

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Posted (edited)

It's pretty amazing that two years ago everyone, myself included was saying what an idiot Vlade Divac was in Sacramento and profusely lauding Danny Ainge....

Good reason not to evaluate trades and moves that are made long term when they occur......

Edited by flranger

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1 hour ago, ShamrockPride said:

Also, how is Chris Paul such an ###hole everywhere he's ever been, and clashed with so many teammates, and this dude represents the player's union? I never understood that.

.....because #######s generally represent unions?

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I joked a few weeks ago that CP may end up running the point in Cleveland for 40M a year and hoooo boy I am here for that actually happening. 

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3 minutes ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

You know Lebron is doing everything he can right now to get CP3. 

And there's rumors of Melo coming off the bench...🙄🙄🙄

Buddy Ball don't win championships

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Posted (edited)

Just heard on local TV that there is buzz that Horford is taking a 4 year deal with a team other than Celtics. :sadbanana:

Edited by Kraft...
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Just now, Kraft... said:

Just heard on local TV that there is buzz that Horford is taking a 4 year deal with a team other than Celtics. :sadbanana:

I was just coming in here to report the same thing. Just read it on the Athletic.

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7 minutes ago, Kraft... said:

Just heard on local TV that there is buzz that Horford is taking a 4 year deal with a team other than Celtics. :sadbanana:

They'll miss him.

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16 minutes ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

You know Lebron is doing everything he can right now to get CP3. 

Cmon. Lebron is a remarkably smart basketball player with two functioning eyeballs and an understanding of how the salary cap works. 

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13 minutes ago, Kraft... said:

Just heard on local TV that there is buzz that Horford is taking a 4 year deal with a team other than Celtics. :sadbanana:

ugh. really thought Horford & Stevens had a thing. that's how much damage kissing the ### of a walk-year star can do.

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15 minutes ago, Good Posting Judge said:

Cmon. Lebron is a remarkably smart basketball player with two functioning eyeballs and an understanding of how the salary cap works. 

🍌  

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Maybe the Commissioner of the NBA should step in to make sure that Chris Paul goes to the Lakers for the good of the game. Are things like that ever done?

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Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn

Lakers are trying to expand Anthony Davis trade and create ability to open max salary slot on July 6, sources tell @BobbyMarks42 and me. Lakers offering contracts of Mo Wagner/Jemerrio Jones/Isaac Bonga to additional teams, so LA can satisfy CBA rules on creating $32M in space.

7:04 PM · Jun 18, 2019

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6 hours ago, Anarchy99 said:

Is it really Ainge's fault that no true superstar wants to play in Boston? They have not been able to get a marquee player sign as a free agent, and any top tier player has indicated he wouldn't re-sign there if acquired by trade. Bottom line, in today's NBA you can't win without a Top 5-ish player and the Celtics can't get one.

Most recently, what good would it have done if they traded say Tatum, Brown, Smart and 3 first round picks to the Pelicans for Davis? It's doubtful Kyrie would have stuck around. They wouldn't have won anything, AD wouldn't have stayed, and they would have to start completely over next year. Who knows, maybe that is better than being stuck in no man's land, but in this case I don't really think Ainge should have pulled the trigger on Davis.

The real killer for Boston was signing Horford and Hayward to max deals, as neither one was really worthy of that kind of money. Hayward getting hurt didn't help any.

Lots of teams don't have Top 5 players, so most of the league is in the same boat. Realistically, how many teams have a legit chance to win?

I know modogg already beat you up for this but HOLY #### does this need more calling out for your attempt at revising history. 

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How many GMs would have screwed this up worse than Ainge? Can’t be many. 

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3 minutes ago, Capella said:

How many GMs would have screwed this up worse than Ainge? Can’t be many. 

No worries, it'll all be salvaged next year when they win the lottery with their own pick.

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Woj is saying Minny’s 11th pick could be in play as part of a bigger deal 👀 

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oh my god, if the lakers literally had LeBron, AD and Kyrie on the roster and NO ONE ELSE and no cap room, it will be the greatest day in the history of the NBA.

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i do wonder what the ceiling of that team would be if it were LeBron, AD and Kawhi, though.  Regardless of what they put around them, could they make the finals?

 

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2 minutes ago, Long Ball Larry said:

i do wonder what the ceiling of that team would be if it were LeBron, AD and Kawhi, though.  Regardless of what they put around them, could they make the finals?

 

If those 3 don't get hurt, absolutely.

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Capella said:

How many GMs would have screwed this up worse than Ainge? Can’t be many. 

He did put himself into position to have something to screw up in the first place. Have to give him a little credit for that - right? Then again, you didn't have to be a super genius to pull the trigger on the Nets deal for the aged vets.

Edited by Gr00vus
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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Gr00vus said:

If those 3 don't get hurt, absolutely.

I guess I shouldn’t say “can”.  I wonder what the likelihood would be.  

Edited by Long Ball Larry

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20 hours ago, jvdesigns2002 said:

People slam the Lakers for grabbing those two guys both at #2---but if the Lakers didn't take either of those guys there--other teams would have taken both of those guys shortly after.  The jibberish about how the Lakers somehow managed to "screw" those picks up is largely unwarranted. Those players were both going to go early regardless of if the Lakers took them. 

Just because lots of other people were wrong, doesn't make the Lakers right. 

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11 minutes ago, Long Ball Larry said:

I guess I couldn’t say “can”.  I wonder what the likelihood would be.  

This year, I think they'd be the favorites. There's enough floating around toward the bottom of the unrestricted free agent pool this year to make it work.

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9 minutes ago, wikkidpissah said:

#LEPRECHARMA

What do the Celtics do now?  14/20/22 doesn't excite me. Cs not in a good spot right now 

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6 minutes ago, Gr00vus said:

He did put himself into position to have something to screw up in the first place. Have to give him a little credit for that - right? Then again, you didn't have to be a super genius to pull the trigger on the Nets deal for the aged vets.

At this time last year he looked like the GM of a stacked team that just missed the Finals with their star player on the bench injured.  Not to mention also having one of the best, young head coaches and future commodities.  He also got a a major free agent to sign with Boston multiple times.

The Celtics still have that great head coach with young talent like Tatum and Brown and solid vets like Hayward and Smart.  Add in some nice roster depth and three 1st round picks to work with, and I think Danny Ainge is doing just fine.

The Celtics didn't turn into Championship favorites, but not every roster upswing will result in a Finals appearance.  Those counting out Ainge appear to be doing so a bit prematurely.

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2 hours ago, jvdesigns2002 said:

Ingram and Ball were not "ESPN" mock draft picks.   They were both consensus picks to go very early in the draft.  Had either of them fallen a few spots in the draft--the vast majority of NBA teams would have absolutely taken them or traded up to have gotten them.   Both of those guys possess basketball intangibles that teams value when they draft. Both are tall and quick for their positions, both have court vision, both have length, both are very good defenders, both have solid handles for their positions--both just had definicies in shooting.  With practice---players can absolutely learn to shoot better. You cannot teach court vision, length and the heart to be a great defender.  People like clowning those picks because it was the Lakers that made them.  Ignoring that fact is intellectually dishonest.  The person who made the statement clowning the Lakers for making those pics is a Nuggets fan.  Funny how he didn't mention the Nuggets picking Mudiaye over guys like Devin Booker and Myles Turner.   It's convenient to clown a team when thats what the bandwagon wants to do.   

There is a gigantic difference between missing on the 7th pick once (Murray was the #7 pick the following year- they got that one right) and the #2 in back to back seasons. I mostly give them a pass on Ingram, but Ball was a reach IMO. His shot was so broken, he was not very quick laterally and never got to the basket, and his dad was such a cancer that there were plenty of people pushing him down their draft board. Even in this thread, people were all over the place on him. All of his weaknesses are probably at least as bad as advertised, while all of his strengths are probably better than advertised. 

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36 minutes ago, trader jake said:

At this time last year he looked like the GM of a stacked team that just missed the Finals with their star player on the bench injured.  Not to mention also having one of the best, young head coaches and future commodities.  He also got a a major free agent to sign with Boston multiple times.

The Celtics still have that great head coach with young talent like Tatum and Brown and solid vets like Hayward and Smart.  Add in some nice roster depth and three 1st round picks to work with, and I think Danny Ainge is doing just fine.

The Celtics didn't turn into Championship favorites, but not every roster upswing will result in a Finals appearance.  Those counting out Ainge appear to be doing so a bit prematurely.

Hayward is an albatross my dude.

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, Kev4029 said:

There is a gigantic difference between missing on the 7th pick once (Murray was the #7 pick the following year- they got that one right) and the #2 in back to back seasons. I mostly give them a pass on Ingram, but Ball was a reach IMO. His shot was so broken, he was not very quick laterally and never got to the basket, and his dad was such a cancer that there were plenty of people pushing him down their draft board. Even in this thread, people were all over the place on him. All of his weaknesses are probably at least as bad as advertised, while all of his strengths are probably better than advertised. 

Lonzo's strengths are not better than advertised. In is rookie year he was the 3rd best pg in the league in regards to defensive plus/minus.  His court vision is elite---and his handles are very solid.   If he can develop to be an even slightly below average shooter--his future in the NBA is very bright.  His only deficiency is that his offensive game has not evolved as quickly as many would have hoped.   

Ingram has all of the tools to be a great player. When he is healthy and motivated--he flashes brilliance. When the Lakers were battling injuries last year and he was healthy--he showed glimpses of what he can do.  People already claiming that Ball and Ingram as bonafide busts are just doing so to Laker hate.    Every team has had draft regrets--but the Lakers train of thought drafting those two guys was not as flawed as you and people here are making it out to be.  The Lakers also did a great job drafting Kuzma when they did.    They also got killed when they drafted D'angelo Russell--when if you look back--that was an excellent pick that was very unpopular at the time.     They also had one of the best draft triumphs when they traded away Vlade Divac for Kobe Bryant.   Let's not act like the Lakers are perennial terrible drafters.  The team was on top of the basketball world for decades.   Yeah--the last few seasons has been a transition period for them--but let's not paint them as if they have a history of being morons.   Most teams in the NBA would absolutely kill to have the track record that the Lakers have.  

Lets not forget that the Nuggets drafted both Donovan Mitchell and Rudy Gobert and effectively gave both away for nothing.  If you are calling Ingram and Ball horrid decisions--neither of those was as bad as giving away Mitchell and Gobert. 

Edited by jvdesigns2002
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1 hour ago, trader jake said:

At this time last year he looked like the GM of a stacked team that just missed the Finals with their star player on the bench injured.  Not to mention also having one of the best, young head coaches and future commodities.  He also got a a major free agent to sign with Boston multiple times.

The Celtics still have that great head coach with young talent like Tatum and Brown and solid vets like Hayward and Smart.  Add in some nice roster depth and three 1st round picks to work with, and I think Danny Ainge is doing just fine.

The Celtics didn't turn into Championship favorites, but not every roster upswing will result in a Finals appearance.  Those counting out Ainge appear to be doing so a bit prematurely.

great head coach has become a little questionable. Great with the X's and O's, but jury is still out on the ability to handle different adult personalities. when you have teammates ready to throw down in a huddle something seems off. also got outcoached against Bucks in 2nd round this year.

and the roster you lay out is a good 5-7 seed in the East, if a lot of things go right. considering the gift trades the team got, to only leave all of those top picks and everything with just Tatum and Brown is very dissapointing.

agreed off-season is still young so maybe they have some moves we haven't seen yet. but if not, this has to be a huge failure top to bottom.

the fact your main cog is ready to jump ship so quick is very telling. Horford doesn't leave if Ainge and Stevens are as wonderful as the Boston media thinks. also think this points to the fact that Kyrie leaving isn't the answer for the Celtics either

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, elguapo07 said:

What do the Celtics do now?  14/20/22 doesn't excite me. Cs not in a good spot right now 

Here's the thing - if Al's leaving, it ain't because someone's offering 4 yrs and the Celts only 3. It's because it aint working in Boston.

I started griping about the chemistry in Cappy's season thread since around the first of the year. Kyrie made a statement about how Maaaacus Smaaaat desrved to be in the starting lineup. They made the switch, sitting Brown i think, that night. Next day, Kyrie makes another statement about Timelord - 1st rd pick Robt Williams - getting more PT cuz he'd shown flashes on days when Horford rested them knees of his, and vvvvroomp, Timelord's minutes ENDED likat. You could tell by the overquick response starting Smart was response to Kyrie feeling he wasnt getting his due but then he overstepped for Timelord and got slapped down. I then started posting "Free Kyrie" cuz i knew he was gonna leave then - i even lobbied for him to be traded to the Knicks str8up for Dennis Smith Jr at the trade deadline after they got him from Dallas cuz i knew he was gone.

Horford quitting has me thinking this is all about Hayward & race. Hayward signed cuz he's a Stevens protege, has received every consideration because he was a fine player who had a horrible break and confidence was what he needed most. The mercurial Irving could have shaped it that the white boy got all the consideration but a gamer like Smart wasn't starting like he should. That's when Stevens decided or Ainge told Stevens to decide to start Marcus, but then Kyrie gets too big for his britches like players do and tried to boost Timelord, who would take time from who? White boys Baynes & Theis. This could be Kyrie playing or a real divide, but he mighta stirred that drink and it devolved from there.

That's the only scenario i can think of for a well-loved player like Horford - who could never be appreciated anywhere like he was in Boston - to opt opt so quick & so ghostfully.

If that's the case, i hope the Celts draft well, match Rozier if its not too high or he's not another part of the Piss Army, and do little else (tho i'd like to see them bring New Englanders Kris Dunn & Noah Vonleh home, which can be cheaply done), cuz i think teams will be regretting maxing Allstars-but-not-superstars this summer as much as teams did signing depth players to $60mil contracts a few yrs ago and we really should see if there's more fallout from the '18-19 season to be dealt with before proceeding.

Edited by wikkidpissah
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I’m not sure Horford is going to find the high dollar four-year deal he's looking for.

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Just now, Juxtatarot said:

I’m not sure Horford is going to find the high dollar four-year deal he's looking for.

the rumor mill has it that its already settled w someone (which they cant divulge for another 10 days, of course). 

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4 minutes ago, wikkidpissah said:

the rumor mill has it that its already settled w someone (which they cant divulge for another 10 days, of course). 

That’s a little curious because I don’t think he’d be the first choice for any team with major cap space.  But I could be wrong. I often am.

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1 hour ago, wikkidpissah said:

#LEPRECHARMA

i do think the way the C's and Ainge treated the dismissal of IT has an effect. you still hear it mentioned and they could not cover that up enough how they used him when he was injured then threw him out as quick as they could

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9 minutes ago, Juxtatarot said:

I’m not sure Horford is going to find the high dollar four-year deal he's looking for.

Probably already has it done. 

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3 minutes ago, Juxtatarot said:

That’s a little curious because I don’t think he’d be the first choice for any team with major cap space.  But I could be wrong. I often am.

at $20mil per, i'd sign five of him. He's a Celtic, in the best sense of the word

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5 minutes ago, wikkidpissah said:

the rumor mill has it that its already settled w someone (which they cant divulge for another 10 days, of course). 

So if the Celtics only make minor moves like bring in Kris Dunn and/or Vonleh then aside from being a 44 win team where do they stand from a cap standpoint. You think they sit tight and wait to spend in '20?

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Capella said:

Probably already has it done. 

And it’s probably Lebron 

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, elguapo07 said:

So if the Celtics only make minor moves like bring in Kris Dunn and/or Vonleh then aside from being a 44 win team where do they stand from a cap standpoint. You think they sit tight and wait to spend in '20?

 

 

i would. there are maybe 7-8 guys statistically worthy of 35%+ contracts and, by the end of this summer, there's gonna be 20some guys getting em. can't get out from under that, as the Wiz & Rockets can already tell you.

ETA: if the damage i worry about hasn't been done and Hayward is any semblance of what he used to be be, this is still the base of a winning team. if the damage has been done and it was about a white boy getting favored treatment in Boston, the Green aint seeing another FA signee til Lucky Charms is classified as a nutritional supplement.

Edited by wikkidpissah

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11 minutes ago, elguapo07 said:

So if the Celtics only make minor moves like bring in Kris Dunn and/or Vonleh then aside from being a 44 win team where do they stand from a cap standpoint. You think they sit tight and wait to spend in '20?

 

 

the exodus from the team by Horford and Kyrie has t make you wonder if any players would come there through free agency. 

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5 hours ago, Craig_MiamiFL said:

Paul for Teague-Dieng 

So yes.

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38 minutes ago, Capella said:

Probably already has it done. 

Probably?  That’s as bad as some of the takes over the past 5 hours that I had to scroll through.

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45 minutes ago, wikkidpissah said:

 

If that's the case, i hope the Celts draft well, match Rozier if its not too high or he's not another part of the Piss Army, and do little else (tho i'd like to see them bring New Englanders Kris Dunn & Noah Vonleh home, which can be cheaply done), cuz i think teams will be regretting maxing Allstars-but-not-superstars this summer as much as teams did signing depth players to $60mil contracts a few yrs ago and we really should see if there's more fallout from the '18-19 season to be dealt with before proceeding.

The scenario of Horford and Kyrie leaving was mentioned a few days ago in this thread. IIRC, they would have about $20 million in cap space if they renounce Rozier, Morris and others. Don’t you think they should look for a higher impact signing?

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I can’t wait until Horford signs with the Knicks for 4 years/100 million and KD goes back to GS :confetti:

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, jvdesigns2002 said:

Lonzo's strengths are not better than advertised. In is rookie year he was the 3rd best pg in the league in regards to defensive plus/minus.  His court vision is elite---and his handles are very solid.   If he can develop to be an even slightly below average shooter--his future in the NBA is very bright.  His only deficiency is that his offensive game has not evolved as quickly as many would have hoped.  

You pretty much described Ricky Rubio.

Edited by Charlie Harper
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