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2019-20 NBA Thread: new forum, same great taste (6 Viewers)

Anarchy99 said:
Vegas was anticipating the Davis move (or another big name coming to the Lakers). I posted about it last week and was surprised given the roster they had at the time.
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Interesting. Ive never heard of anything like that before. I get that with the GS injuries it’s up for grabs but it seems really strange. 

 
timschochet said:
Interesting. Ive never heard of anything like that before. I get that with the GS injuries it’s up for grabs but it seems really strange. 
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If I had to guess, it was because they were the odds on favorite to land AD and already had LeBron.  That is 2 top 5ish players on the same team.  Everyone will be playing catchup now that Golden State is down to Curry & Draymond for next season.

 
Good Posting Judge said:
Doug B said:
Can Lonzo Ball legitimately play? I've always held his father's antics against him and assumed without the Big Baller hype and Pop's mouth, Lonzo and brothers weren't much as NBA players.

Lonzo Ball is the one player I didn't want the Pelicans to get. Is he better than I think?
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Yes.
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... his sub-Shaq FT% -- and his FG%, for that matter -- are not symptoms of a wider-ranging deficiency in pro-level ability? I see people in here saying Lonzo Ball can defend, at least.

...

@wikkidpissah - a shorter Ben Simmons? Simmons puts up basically Detlef Schrempf numbers (a little better, actually) and is still reviled. Lonzo Ball, on the stat sheet at least, seems miles behind Simmons.

 
bananafish said:
If I were a Pels fan I'd be ecstatic. You guys just got the biggest haul for a star in NBA history and it's not even close (and for a guy with only one year left on his contract at that).

I don't have time to post the myriad of ways that your team just got better, but you'll have Zion, considered to be the best prospect since LeBron (or at least AD),  coming to a team stacked with assets and a GM who knows how to use them.

Think if it this way: this was basically a bet between Griffin and Pelinka on the future of the Lakers. I'd be placing my chips on the guy who knows what he's doing. 
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I 100% agree.  I am just torn on  ball mostly.

 
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Doug B said:
... his sub-Shaq FT% -- and his FG%, for that matter -- are not symptoms of a wider-ranging deficiency in pro-level ability? I see people in here saying Lonzo Ball can defend, at least.

...

@wikkidpissah - a shorter Ben Simmons? Simmons puts up basically Detlef Schrempf numbers (a little better, actually) and is still reviled. Lonzo Ball, on the stat sheet at least, seems miles behind Simmons.
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I want to see him start banking it in from the FT line.

 
If I was a Lakers fan the one thing I would be concerned with is AD’s injury history.  I do not wish that on anyone but it seemed like for the Pels at least he was always fighting something.

 
timschochet said:
Interesting. Ive never heard of anything like that before. I get that with the GS injuries it’s up for grabs but it seems really strange. 
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I think maybe the problem is that you're looking at bookmakers as objective entities whose goal is to present accurate odds at a given moment, rather than businesses trying to limit risk exposure as much as possible while still making the odds long enough to entice bets.

 
Doug B said:
... his sub-Shaq FT% -- and his FG%, for that matter -- are not symptoms of a wider-ranging deficiency in pro-level ability? I see people in here saying Lonzo Ball can defend, at least.

...

@wikkidpissah - a shorter Ben Simmons? Simmons puts up basically Detlef Schrempf numbers (a little better, actually) and is still reviled. Lonzo Ball, on the stat sheet at least, seems miles behind Simmons.
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You are being way too dismissive about his impact on the defensive end.   In his rookie year he ranked 3rd in real defensive plus/minus amongst all point guards in the league.  This past season he ranked something like 8th---but 3-4 of the guys ahead of him were not starters.   Defensively he's one of the best point guards in the league.   When he was healthy last season--the Lakers were something like the 15th or 17th best defensive team in the league.  When he went down--they dropped to being one of the worst.  Look at the current landscape of the NBA.  The point guard position is absolutely stuffed with talent.  A player that can defend that position well is a valuable asset. 

 
ragincajun said:
If I was a Lakers fan the one thing I would be concerned with is AD’s injury history.  I do not wish that on anyone but it seemed like for the Pels at least he was always fighting something.
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In five of his seven seasons, Anthony David has played 68 games or less (call it 4 of 6 if you want to throw out 2018-19). In the other two seasons 2016-17 and 2017-18, he missed seven games each.

 
Doug B said:
... his sub-Shaq FT% -- and his FG%, for that matter -- are not symptoms of a wider-ranging deficiency in pro-level ability? I see people in here saying Lonzo Ball can defend, at least.

...

@wikkidpissah - a shorter Ben Simmons? Simmons puts up basically Detlef Schrempf numbers (a little better, actually) and is still reviled. Lonzo Ball, on the stat sheet at least, seems miles behind Simmons.
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Simmons, healthy, with an offense built around him, 16-8-8 per 36 first 2 seasons. Ball, injured, yet to be handed the keys, 12-7-7 per 36 first 2 seasons. The offensive and defensive vision are almost identical. I can see someone not glomming onto the theory, but it's not ridiculous.

 
wikkidpissah said:
Simmons, healthy, with an offense built around him, 16-8-8 per 36 first 2 seasons. Ball, injured, yet to be handed the keys, 12-7-7 per 36 first 2 seasons. The offensive and defensive vision are almost identical. I can see someone not glomming onto the theory, but it's not ridiculous.
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I'm trying to come around on Lonzo Ball. I guess I don't abide the social climate of the modern-day NBA, and I just chalked up Lavar Ball and sons as all part of the same clown show. Figured that if his sons were top players, Lavar would be WAY quieter. Felt like Lavar was trying to build a brand based on nothing -- that building the brand came miles before playing good basketball (developing on the sons' abilities, etc.). Thought everyone named "Ball" had misplaced priorities re: Lonzo and his brother ever developing into even good NBA players. 

Upon reading around ... I did pick up that Lonzo Ball shot over 41% from the shorter 3-pt line in college. What do smart observers think happened to his shot in the NBA? Totally the fault of injuries? Man among boys in the PAC-12 (though that's a good hoops conference)? Something else?

 
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Doug B said:
I'm trying to come around on Lonzo Ball. I guess I don't abide the social climate of the modern-day NBA, and I just chalked up Lavar Ball and sons as all part of the same clown show. Figured that if his sons were top players, Lavar would be WAY quieter. Felt like Lavar was trying to build a brand based on nothing -- that building the brand came miles before playing good basketball (developing on the sons' abilities, etc.). Thought everyone named "Ball" had misplaced priorities re: Lonzo and his brother ever developing into even good NBA players. 

Upon reading around ... I did pick up that Lonzo Ball shot over 41% from the shorter 3-pt line in college. What do smart observers think happened to his shot in the NBA? Totally the fault of injuries? Man among boys in the PAC-12 (though that's a good hoops conference)? Something else?
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problem is as it always was, that the shot takes the same amount of time to get off as a set shot, and we all know where the set shot went (Steph's li'l quickie and Tommy Heinsohn's dreams). you dont get clearance for a shot that takes that long to unfurl in the nba unless you wiiiiide open. but the floor skills are exceptional - perhaps the best passing-lane hawk in the game.

i see the parallels, though. grrrreat vision, Simmons has a better angle, Ball a better handle, Simmons has a block about which hand to shoot with and whether to shoot at all, Ball has a block about that catapultslingshotwhatever he got. Simmons's got the pout now, Lonzo got the dad still. Pat Beverly chested Ball his very first exhib game and Lonzo backed off as he musta done a million times from his old man, instead of stakin his turf. I'd love to see both get out from under cuz there are top 20 ballers in there.

 
Doug B said:
I'm trying to come around on Lonzo Ball. I guess I don't abide the social climate of the modern-day NBA, and I just chalked up Lavar Ball and sons as all part of the same clown show. Figured that if his sons were top players, Lavar would be WAY quieter. Felt like Lavar was trying to build a brand based on nothing -- that building the brand came miles before playing good basketball (developing on the sons' abilities, etc.). Thought everyone named "Ball" had misplaced priorities re: Lonzo and his brother ever developing into even good NBA players. 

Upon reading around ... I did pick up that Lonzo Ball shot over 41% from the shorter 3-pt line in college. What do smart observers think happened to his shot in the NBA? Totally the fault of injuries? Man among boys in the PAC-12 (though that's a good hoops conference)? Something else?
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He has definitely tried to build a brand for himself and his family based on Lonzo’s hype coming out of high school, but that was pretty legit.  Everything else is pretty much just hype with no substance.  Though I think that the youngest brother is considered to maybe have a modicum of talent.

 
wikkidpissah said:
problem is as it always was, that the shot takes the same amount of time to get off as a set shot, and we all know where the set shot went (Steph's li'l quickie and Tommy Heinsohn's dreams). you dont get clearance for a shot that takes that long to unfurl in the nba unless you wiiiiide open. but the floor skills are exceptional - perhaps the best passing-lane hawk in the game.

i see the parallels, though. grrrreat vision, Simmons has a better angle, Ball a better handle, Simmons has a block about which hand to shoot with and whether to shoot at all, Ball has a block about that catapultslingshotwhatever he got. Simmons's got the pout now, Lonzo got the dad still. Pat Beverly chested Ball his very first exhib game and Lonzo backed off as he musta done a million times from his old man, instead of stakin his turf. I'd love to see both get out from under cuz there are top 20 ballers in there.
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I’m relatively low on Simmons but he has otherworldly, Giannis-type size and athleticism that is going to make him a very good player regardless of what happens with his shot. Lonzo doesn’t have that. Lonzo may be solid defensively but if he never becomes an above average shooter, he’s Ricky Rubio, not an all-NBA candidate. 

 
Ditkaless Wonders said:
Word leaked about the trade, Vegas responded, the trade was then announced.  The odds anticipated the trade by a few hours.  Simply shows that the Books have access to information before the public.
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I wouldn't say it leaked, I'd say they were just the faves to get him.  Last year Philly had like the 2nd highest championship odds at one point simply because there was talk that Lebron would either go to Philly or LA.  Poor guy would have had another title if he chose differently.

 
Deamon said:
I wouldn't say it leaked, I'd say they were just the faves to get him.  Last year Philly had like the 2nd highest championship odds at one point simply because there was talk that Lebron would either go to Philly or LA.  Poor guy would have had another title if he chose differently.
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Your guess is as good as mine.  I happen to think that the Books have impeccable sources, but it could have been speculation and simply a desire to stay ahead of betting trends fueled by bettor speculation.

 
thecatch said:
I’m relatively low on Simmons but he has otherworldly, Giannis-type size and athleticism that is going to make him a very good player regardless of what happens with his shot. Lonzo doesn’t have that. Lonzo may be solid defensively but if he never becomes an above average shooter, he’s Ricky Rubio, not an all-NBA candidate. 
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you may be undervaluing a 6'6 point who can switch on anybody and beat most switches on him in today's game but, yeah, a defensive Rubio is his floor

 
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Jrue-Ball-Ingram-Williamson helluva great defensive team. 4 guys that can defend multiple positions. Have the coveted 4th pick and loads of cap space. Really in a spot to pick and choose to do whatever they want. Floor spacing 5 seems like a logical way they go in free agency, I'm just not a big fan of spending a lot on it on a long term deal. Better investment to grab a bit 5 on a cheap deal and allocate the money elsewhere long term. Zion's perfectly capable of playing the 5 for stretches for small ball.

That Jrue-Ball backcourt is gonna be fun to watch if they keep it together. Lonzo really can't ask for a better situation playing alongside Jrue. Watching Jrue-Rondo just dismantle Lillard-McCollom a year ago was fun stuff. Pels having a fantastic offseason. 

 
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Bucky86 said:
:lol:  Glad he's someone else's problem now.

@katienolan
lol lavar just said on first take that the reason he said he didn’t want the lakers to send lonzo to the pelicans is because he DID want them to. “I was playing chess,” he says, which is famously not something a person playing chess would say.
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NOT trapped lol

 
Craig_MiamiFL said:
Jrue-Ball-Ingram-Williamson helluva great defensive team. 4 guys that can defend multiple positions. Have the coveted 4th pick and loads of cap space. Really in a spot to pick and choose to whatever they want. Floor spacing 5 seems like a logical way they go, I'm just not a big fan of spending a lot on it on a long term deal. Better investment to grab a bit 5 on a cheap deal and allocate the money elsewhere long term. Zion's perfectly capable of playing the 5 for stretches for small ball.

That Jrue-Ball backcourt is gonna be fun to watch if they keep it together. Lonzo really can't ask for a better situation playing alongside Jrue. Watching Jrue-Rondo just dismantle Lillard-McCollom a year ago was fun stuff. Pels having a fantastic offseason. 
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Now go move up to #3.  All-UCLA backcourt and All-Duke frontcourt would be fun.

 
wikkidpissah said:
you may be undervaluing a 6'6 point who can switch on anybody and beat most switches on him in today's game but, yeah, a defensive Rubio is his floor
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I don’t know why you think he can beat most switches offensively. Defense out of a PG is nice, but unless you have an extremely unique roster construction, it’s hard to win without someone who is an offensive threat at that position. 

 
thecatch said:
I don’t know why you think he can beat most switches offensively. Defense out of a PG is nice, but unless you have an extremely unique roster construction, it’s hard to win without someone who is an offensive threat at that position. 
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i'm bored with you already

 
Craig_MiamiFL said:
Jrue-Ball-Ingram-Williamson helluva great defensive team. 4 guys that can defend multiple positions. Have the coveted 4th pick and loads of cap space. Really in a spot to pick and choose to do whatever they want. Floor spacing 5 seems like a logical way they go, I'm just not a big fan of spending a lot on it on a long term deal. Better investment to grab a bit 5 on a cheap deal and allocate the money elsewhere long term. Zion's perfectly capable of playing the 5 for stretches for small ball.
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Was hoping Julius Randle would stick around, but he's apparently exercised his player option to enter free agency right now. I guess I can rationalize it and say to myself that Randle is more a PF anyway and that he'd be competing for minutes with Zion. And that while he's played a good amount at the 5, that Randle is not quite a prototypical center at 6'9". But I do like Randle's game and will be sorry to see him go.

 
Craig_MiamiFL said:
Jrue-Ball-Ingram-Williamson helluva great defensive team. 4 guys that can defend multiple positions. Have the coveted 4th pick and loads of cap space. Really in a spot to pick and choose to do whatever they want. Floor spacing 5 seems like a logical way they go, I'm just not a big fan of spending a lot on it on a long term deal. Better investment to grab a bit 5 on a cheap deal and allocate the money elsewhere long term. Zion's perfectly capable of playing the 5 for stretches for small ball.

That Jrue-Ball backcourt is gonna be fun to watch if they keep it together. Lonzo really can't ask for a better situation playing alongside Jrue. Watching Jrue-Rondo just dismantle Lillard-McCollom a year ago was fun stuff. Pels having a fantastic offseason. 
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Sounds like Bol Bol is the no brainer for them at #4 then.

 
caustic said:
We've reached the "heavily analyze cryptic social media messages from your favorite players" part of the NBA season, and I don't like the looks of this at all! https://twitter.com/SDinwiddie_25/status/1140571646299971585
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You can't take anything from that at all.  After the fact a bunch of people will post why "they knew ____ was gonna happen" when they saw a post like that, but it's totally non-sensical.  Basically, it's a Rorschach Test for Twitter users.  Don't waste your time on that crap.  If he had also posted two eyes looking around...then you have something. 😶

 
Craig_MiamiFL said:
Jrue-Ball-Ingram-Williamson helluva great defensive team. 4 guys that can defend multiple positions. Have the coveted 4th pick and loads of cap space. Really in a spot to pick and choose to do whatever they want. Floor spacing 5 seems like a logical way they go, I'm just not a big fan of spending a lot on it on a long term deal. Better investment to grab a bit 5 on a cheap deal and allocate the money elsewhere long term. Zion's perfectly capable of playing the 5 for stretches for small ball.

That Jrue-Ball backcourt is gonna be fun to watch if they keep it together. Lonzo really can't ask for a better situation playing alongside Jrue. Watching Jrue-Rondo just dismantle Lillard-McCollom a year ago was fun stuff. Pels having a fantastic offseason. 
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brook lopez, come on down!

 
Northern Voice said:
Toronto fans give Kawhi a "One More Year" chant, Kyle Lowry corrects them and switches them to a "5 More Years" chant. Uncle Dennis holds up the 5 as well. 

"5MoreYears" and "Uncle Dennis" both now trending in Canada :lol:  
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I can't think of an athlete whose on-court and off-court personalities get such a different reaction from me. I don't particularly care for Kyle Lowry the basketball player- he's like if James Harden learned to play defense at the Coach K School of Charge-Drawing.  Off the court he's one of my favorite players in the league. He's a great interview, seems like a nice guy with a good sense of humor, and his friendship with DeRozan was adorable.

 
TobiasFunke said:
I think maybe the problem is that you're looking at bookmakers as objective entities whose goal is to present accurate odds at a given moment, rather than businesses trying to limit risk exposure as much as possible while still making the odds long enough to entice bets.
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:goodposting: especially with future bets. biggest risk is for people over-reacting to the Lakers signing AD, so they cushion that. Sure it will change throughout summer before Joe Public comes in and makes any plays closer to the season

 
Deamon said:
I wouldn't say it leaked, I'd say they were just the faves to get him.  Last year Philly had like the 2nd highest championship odds at one point simply because there was talk that Lebron would either go to Philly or LA.  Poor guy would have had another title if he chose differently.
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crazy to think how LeBron/Lakers have bent over to get AD, when LeBron could have played with Embiid and not sacrificed an entire roster. just crazy the ego-centrism behind LeBron

 
modogg said:
crazy to think how LeBron/Lakers have bent over to get AD, when LeBron could have played with Embiid and not sacrificed an entire roster. just crazy the ego-centrism behind LeBron
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Ya I'm sure he would have made the difference of a few points over Toronto at the least. I do dislike the guy but I think his decision was more based on quality of life/future of his empire/etc than purely basketball. No way he'd pick the Lakers if it was purely basketball. 

 
Deamon said:
Ya I'm sure he would have made the difference of a few points over Toronto at the least. I do dislike the guy but I think his decision was more based on quality of life/future of his empire/etc than purely basketball. No way he'd pick the Lakers if it was purely basketball. 
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Not much LeBron could do.  Ervin was Magic and just closed the deal. 🤗

 
side note, but one thing the NBA does leaps and bounds over other sports is "pick swaps" :wub: . I f'n love the idea of a team having the ability to swap picks with another team. It is a ton of fun rooting for, and wish more teams would utilize it. 

 
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