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2019-20 NBA Thread: new forum, same great taste (9 Viewers)

modogg said:
not in this market, no (especially with Ben getting the max next year). that was why those trades were such a big deal for the team last year. they have a lot more salary cap options with both being under Sixers last year than as incoming free agent
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Trade Simmons. 

 
Memphis has traded guard Mike Conley to the Utah Jazz for Grayson Allen, Kyle Korver and Jae Crowder, the 23rd pick in Thursday's Draft and a future first-round pick, league sources tell ESPN.

that....that is not a lot. 

 
does memphis like jagwad nut kickers or what that is the question we should be asking right now take that to the bank bromigos

 
bananafish said:
As a Warriors fan growing up....

I contend that their latest moves have only made things worse and we'll know the truth soon enough. Sure, LeBron and AD together is a devastating combo, but when the quality of the rest of the team renders them impotent and you have no means to improve until 2026, I have to question the means by which it was done. Anyone could have traded for AD, but only an exceptional moron would have given up what Pelinka did, a direct result of his desperation due to the situation he himself created. They were on the verge of lapping the Knicks for Most Moribund Franchise and they knew that Davis was the only thing that would call off the hounds, however briefly. And Griffin knew. And Voila.

They sure could've used a promising young talent like Ivica Zubac right about now, but unfortunately they traded him away for no reason and for no return. To the Clippers. The why is still one of the greatest mysteries this board has ever seen.

An extra $5MM in cap space sure would come in useful in these trying times; such a shame it's all dead money due to buying out Luol Deng.

Pelinka and Vogel will soon be gone and then they'll go after Jeanie. It's going to be ugly and some viewers may find it disturbing.
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Who cares about 2026?  They want to win now and will deal with that later.  It's 2019, a lot can happen in between and winning it all while Lebron is still on top might not be a bad decision.

And no, not everyone could have traded for AD, there are certain places he wanted to land.  Which is why he's a Laker now.  Is that hard to swallow?

"sure could've used promising young talent".  Child please.  They've got Lebron, this isn't time for a reboot.  They're going for it now, as they should.

 
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millertyme1 said:
Capella said:
Memphis has traded guard Mike Conley to the Utah Jazz for Grayson Allen, Kyle Korver and Jae Crowder, the 23rd pick in Thursday's Draft and a future first-round pick, league sources tell ESPN.

that....that is not a lot. 
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Not surprising at all to me  Flooded PG market and inflated salary. 

Lucky to get what they did.
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we like our takes a little hotter than that around here bromigo take that to the bank

 
its like utah said sure we will trade you a couple of bags of garbage for ole mike conley like they were joking around and meant real hefty sacks of trash and then memphis was like sure and then utah was like oh crap who is garbage ok grayson come on down you nut kicking useless sack of overrated duke garbage take that to the bank bromigos 

 
thecatch said:
That’s a fantastic deal for Utah. 
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yeah, no idea how guys like Crowder and Korver will fit on a team like Memphis. Maybe in a mentorship kind of role? Seems weird to seek that. Great job of Utah to push for this now before someone else offered something better for Conley. The big if always with Conley is can he stay healthy, but if he can should be a fun team again for utah

 
in fact grayson allen should have to poke two arm holes and a head hole in a black hefty trashbag and wear it over his jersey whenever he plays just so that everyone knows what he really is take that to the bank bromigos

 
thecatch said:
That’s a fantastic deal for Utah. 
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Surprised they got it done without including Favors, but now Memphis can see how Ja & JJJ jell while waiting out Parsons' last year and will have plenty shopping room to round out a good squad if their new duo is the right base.

ETA: Now, the Grizz will have Ja, JJJ, Kyle Anderson (about $20mil total), an option on Grayson and whatever they take on this year under contract for '20-21

 
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Seems likely that Memphis won't even get that future first rounder until 2022:

Chris Herrington‏ @HerringtonNBA

Per league source, the 2020 pick the Grizzlies are getting in Conley trade has the following protections:

2020 1-7, 15-30 (conveys 8-14)

2021 - same as above

2022 - 1-6

2023 1-3

2024 - 1

2025 - converts to two seconds

9:03 AM - 19 Jun 2019

 
modogg said:
yeah, no idea how guys like Crowder and Korver will fit on a team like Memphis. Maybe in a mentorship kind of role? Seems weird to seek that. Great job of Utah to push for this now before someone else offered something better for Conley. The big if always with Conley is can he stay healthy, but if he can should be a fun team again for utah
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Korver only has a partial guarantee for next year and will likely be waived. Crowder probably has a little bit of trade value, maybe they can flip him for a second rounder or something. 

 
TobiasFunke said:
I think I'd prefer the depth, but all of it depends on what 35 year old LeBron has left in the tank, and that's something none of us can possibly know.  If he's a close facsimile of 31 year old LeBron I think you have enough star power to win the title already and just build out the depth. If there's gonna be a significant dropoff you pick up another star and then hope your front office finds some useful parts with minimal resources, a la Toronto.
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As was pointed out on an NBA podcast yesterday (Lowe post?) - this is the first time we've ever seen LeBron have essentially 6-7 months of rest to completely let his body heal.  Do we get a rejuvenated LeBron who puts up another monster 2-3 years?  Seems very possible.  Also possible that we've seen the best, and it's downhill from here.  I'd bet on the former, but I don't discount the latter.  

 
Conley deal seems reasonable. He's making a lot of money, so it's not like he can command a tremendous haul in terms of talent/picks, but it's a good deal for Utah in that free agents, historically, tend not to go there.

They're a quietly solid team in a conference that's got a lot of ?'s and teams just falling apart.

 
Good Posting Judge said:
Conley deal seems reasonable. He's making a lot of money, so it's not like he can command a tremendous haul in terms of talent/picks, but it's a good deal for Utah in that free agents, historically, tend not to go there.
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Last season was the first time in 4 years he managed to make it through 70 games. He's played more than 73 games 4 times in his 12 year career, last time being in 2012-2013. He's a health risk. Given that and his contract, the price seems right.

 
caustic said:
Seems likely that Memphis won't even get that future first rounder until 2022:

Chris Herrington‏ @HerringtonNBA

Per league source, the 2020 pick the Grizzlies are getting in Conley trade has the following protections:

2020 1-7, 15-30 (conveys 8-14)

2021 - same as above

2022 - 1-6

2023 1-3

2024 - 1

2025 - converts to two seconds

9:03 AM - 19 Jun 2019
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That pick could work out nicely for the Grizzlies.

Good trade on both sides, in my opinion.  This also frees up the Grizzlies salary sheet to take on some bad contracts going through next year for picks.

 
Long Ball Larry said:
wow, wasn't the rumored deal at the deadline quite a bit better for the Grizz?
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i guess utah's final offer back at the trade deadline was Ricky Rubio and Derrick Favors, a first-round pick and a second-round pick.  Grizz wanted Exum but Utah said no.  I'm not sure which is better.  That deal would have gotten them in better cap situation sooner, but now they have a little better future assets between the 2 1sts and Allen (I guess).

 
So that Conley deal is the first one structure to take advantage of the new lottery odds.  Looking at it, it should really be a pick in the 2022 draft.  This is a Hollinger special.

 
Love this trade for both:

Utah - they are ready to win now.  Mitchell is past his Soph slump and ready to make another surge forward.  Conley adds more offense than Rubio without a dropoff in defense and will have a more talented squad to work with.  I'm also a big Gobert fan and am so glad to see they are making the near future a priority. 

Memphis - they are in a youth movement.  Adding another first this year, plus a likely 2022 (Double Draft!!) pick makes a lot of sense with JJJ and Ja.

 
bananafish said:
As a Warriors fan growing up, when I wanted to root for a real NBA team I cheered for the Lakers (they were on TV all the time). In fact, before we moved to the Bay Area in 1979 and I even knew who the Warriors were, my favorite player was Kareem because he wore glasses like I did. 

If you choose to write off what I said as the musings of a biased Warriors fan that's your prerogative. If you want to pull the wool over your eyes like the rest of the sycophants go right ahead, I have plenty of real-life experience dealing with your ilk and the comeuppance will be that much sweeter.

The only thing I don't really like about the Lakers is their fans jumping on (and now, conveniently, off) the Golden State bandwagon. The Warriors don't have any real rivalries like other teams because they were so bad for so long. Even during the brief periods of success they stumbled into, the Warriors and Lakers were never good at the same time as far as I can remember. I know Sleepy Floyd set the playoff record for points in a quarter against them in the 80's, but all that did was prevent a Lakers sweep on their way to another championship. Their rivalries with the Calves, Rockets and Clippers are all recent inventions stemming from their clashes during the Steph era.

If you look back through the NBA threads I've been plenty critical of many teams, including my own. I've even praised the Clippers as a model franchise (they are admittedly harder to hate now that CP3 and Blake are gone). They'll be running circles around the Lakers as long as Jeanie Buss owns the team that's for sure.

Miss Buss is the main source of my beef, not the Lakers. I've complained here and elsewhere that she's been unfairly immune to criticism when it's clear that's where their dysfunction starts. She's taken some hits lately, but that's only because the disastrous results stemming from her decision-making have become glaringly obvious and undeniable even to the most die-hard fans.

I contend that their latest moves have only made things worse and we'll know the truth soon enough. Sure, LeBron and AD together is a devastating combo, but when the quality of the rest of the team renders them impotent and you have no means to improve until 2026, I have to question the means by which it was done. Anyone could have traded for AD, but only an exceptional moron would have given up what Pelinka did, a direct result of his desperation due to the situation he himself created. They were on the verge of lapping the Knicks for Most Moribund Franchise and they knew that Davis was the only thing that would call off the hounds, however briefly. And Griffin knew. And Voila.

They sure could've used a promising young talent like Ivica Zubac right about now, but unfortunately they traded him away for no reason and for no return. To the Clippers. The why is still one of the greatest mysteries this board has ever seen.

An extra $5MM in cap space sure would come in useful in these trying times; such a shame it's all dead money due to buying out Luol Deng.

Pelinka and Vogel will soon be gone and then they'll go after Jeanie. It's going to be ugly and some viewers may find it disturbing.
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I agree with alot of your takes in your recent posts, but it's clear that you're assuming the worst case scenarios while downplaying the elephant in the room.  

"Promising young talent like Zubac" is the kind of rhetoric Laker fans would get ridiculed for. 

"Sure LeBron and AD is a devastating combo, but...." - let's be real, it's the best pairing of players in the league, and they are by virtually all analysis an exceptional fit.  The Lakers spent the last 4 years rebuilding, some of the moves paid off (signing LeBron, drafting Larry Nance Jr, drafting Kuzma, drafting Hart), some were unlucky (Lonzo and Ingram getting hurt and not developing as quickly as anticipated), and some were just plain stoopid (Magic's "toughness" crew from last offseason, the summer of 2016 disaster starring Luol and Mozzy).  

But in the end, the Lakers are currently, as composed, one of the handful of NBA teams considered a favorite to win the title in 2019-2020.  To suggest they are anywhere close to Knicks level dysfunction is so absolutely laughable that it makes one question all of the other good points you make.  

 
tommyGunZ said:
I agree with alot of your takes in your recent posts, but it's clear that you're assuming the worst case scenarios while downplaying the elephant in the room.  

"Promising young talent like Zubac" is the kind of rhetoric Laker fans would get ridiculed for. 

"Sure LeBron and AD is a devastating combo, but...." - let's be real, it's the best pairing of players in the league, and they are by virtually all analysis an exceptional fit.  The Lakers spent the last 4 years rebuilding, some of the moves paid off (signing LeBron, drafting Larry Nance Jr, drafting Kuzma, drafting Hart), some were unlucky (Lonzo and Ingram getting hurt and not developing as quickly as anticipated), and some were just plain stoopid (Magic's "toughness" crew from last offseason, the summer of 2016 disaster starring Luol and Mozzy).  

But in the end, the Lakers are currently, as composed, one of the handful of NBA teams considered a favorite to win the title in 2019-2020.  To suggest they are anywhere close to Knicks level dysfunction is so absolutely laughable that it makes one question all of the other good points you make.  
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Until we see how they fill out the rest of the roster here, I can't see making a determination one way or another on how Pelinka, on his own, is doing. I think it's fair to say the Lakers have been a bit more dysfunctional than not since Jerry Buss died.

 
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tommyGunZ said:
But in the end, the Lakers are currently, as composed, one of the handful of NBA teams considered a favorite to win the title in 2019-2020.  To suggest they are anywhere close to Knicks level dysfunction is so absolutely laughable that it makes one question all of the other good points you make.  
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The wonderful thing about being a Lakers fan is that the team can be among the most dysfunctional franchises in the league and still fall backwards into success. Somehow, despite being extremely lucky in the lottery yet still managing to blow 4 lottery picks, and making terrible free agent deals for years, and missing the playoffs for six years, Lebron and AD simply fell into their lap and they are instant contenders. Let’s not pretend that they’ve been well managed.

 
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thecatch said:
The wonderful thing about being a Lakers fan is that the team can be among the most dysfunctional franchises in the league and still fall backwards into success. Somehow, despite being extremely lucky in the lottery yet still managing to blow 4 lottery picks, and making terrible free agent deals for years, Lebron and AD simply fell into their lap and they are instant contenders. Let’s not pretend that they’ve been well managed.
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This narrative is silly.

 
Gr00vus said:
Until we see how they fill out the rest of the roster here, I can't see making a determination one way or another on how Pelinka, on his own, is doing. I think it's fair to say the Lakers have been more dysfunctional than not since Jerry Buss died.
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Knicks level dysfunction though?  That's crazy talk.  Do I wish the Lakers had been able to get AD straight up for Moe Wagner?  Of course!  

Lakers have their guys to win both now, and in the future.  LeBron will give them another 3 great years, and then the Lakers will have $40M to entice another superstar to come win titles with AD.  Shouldn't be hard to sell that.  

Everything else is gravy.  

 
tommyGunZ said:
Knicks level dysfunction though?  That's crazy talk.  Do I wish the Lakers had been able to get AD straight up for Moe Wagner?  Of course!  

Lakers have their guys to win both now, and in the future.  LeBron will give them another 3 great years, and then the Lakers will have $40M to entice another superstar to come win titles with AD.  Shouldn't be hard to sell that.  

Everything else is gravy.  
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If we're just looking at records/results, it's not that far off from Knicks level bad. Last year they got worked by injuries (they'd have made the playoffs otherwise), but prior to that it's been pretty bad since the Nash/Howard season, with the low point being the offseason they signed Mozgov and Deng - that was Knicks level dysfunction.

 
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thecatch said:
The wonderful thing about being a Lakers fan is that the team can be among the most dysfunctional franchises in the league and still fall backwards into success. Somehow, despite being extremely lucky in the lottery yet still managing to blow 4 lottery picks, and making terrible free agent deals for years, and missing the playoffs for six years, Lebron and AD simply fell into their lap and they are instant contenders. Let’s not pretend that they’ve been well managed.
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It's definitely a built in advantage, which is why you don't mind overpaying for the true, elite superstars if you're the Laker FO.  They can attract marginal FAs with ease to come play in LA with LBJ and AD.

Disagree about "blowing" lottery picks.  None of their 3 picks became franchise players, but all three are valued NBA assets, as evidenced by teams wanted them and trading for them.  

 
Gr00vus said:
If we're just looking at records/results, it's not that far off from Knicks level bad. Last year they got worked by injuries (they'd have made the playoffs otherwise), but prior to that it's been pretty bad since the Nash/Howard season.
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Knicks haven't been relevant in decades, and have zero all stars currently on their roster.  Rumor is that they may end up paying Al Horford the max for his mid-30s seasons.

Al Horford.  I repeat Al Horford.  We have LeBron and AD.  C'mon bro. 

 
tommyGunZ said:
It's definitely a built in advantage, which is why you don't mind overpaying for the true, elite superstars if you're the Laker FO.  They can attract marginal FAs with ease to come play in LA with LBJ and AD.

Disagree about "blowing" lottery picks.  None of their 3 picks became franchise players, but all three are valued NBA assets, as evidenced by teams wanted them and trading for them.  
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:goodposting:

They didn't manage to come up with the best player in the draft at 7, 2, 2, 2 - but they didn't draft absolute zeros either and all 4 guys are starting caliber players, probably plus starters at that outside of Lonzo (if he can't learn how to shoot closer to 40%).

 
Gr00vus said:
If we're just looking at records/results, it's not that far off from Knicks level bad. Last year they got worked by injuries (they'd have made the playoffs otherwise), but prior to that it's been pretty bad since the Nash/Howard season, with the low point being the offseason they signed Mozgov and Deng - that was Knicks level dysfunction.
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the one thing I think of note is the Lakers team from a year ago (pre-Lebron) actually had a nice little run near the end of the season right? it seemed that Luke had the young guys starting to come together and they were playing well. Not sure the ceiling of that team, but it was amazing how they seemed to grow as a team and begin to really start something, and then :tfp:

 
As the biggest Lonzo fan on these boards, I was sad to see him included in the deal.  I wish NO would have taken Kuzma instead.  I still believe in Lonzo as a player and think he is vastly underrated, and can be a championship winning PG.

That said, the one thing that has really tempered my Lonzo standom, is the FT%.  Despite everything I love about his game and the entertaining way he plays, I don't have a good argument to refute the point that you simply can't be an elite perimeter player in the NBA shooting 44% from the charity stripe.  :shrug:

I'll still be pulling for you ZO!  

 
modogg said:
the one thing I think of note is the Lakers team from a year ago (pre-Lebron) actually had a nice little run near the end of the season right? it seemed that Luke had the young guys starting to come together and they were playing well. Not sure the ceiling of that team, but it was amazing how they seemed to grow as a team and begin to really start something, and then :tfp:
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The only reason for the train wreck was all the injuries. They were, I believe, 3rd in the western conference when LeBron got hurt, and were playing really good ball at that point. Then James, Kuzma, Ingram, Ball, Rondo and a few others missed serious time. This is another silly narrative.

 
Capella said:
Memphis has traded guard Mike Conley to the Utah Jazz for Grayson Allen, Kyle Korver and Jae Crowder, the 23rd pick in Thursday's Draft and a future first-round pick, league sources tell ESPN.

that....that is not a lot. 
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Conleys contract had a ton to do with that.    He's a great player--but good lord the remaining portion of his contract is hard to digest.  

 
Was interesting to see media reports about the possible resurgence of Celtics-Lakers clashes for the next 2-3 years last fall. Seems we aren't quite there anymore, so for the non-Celtics/non-Lakers fans (or whoever), which team is in better shape for the upcoming year, and for the future. I think an argument can be made the Lakers are for both. Definitely in the current, and for the future it seems plausible if AD re-signs they can be in the conversation for awhile.

 
thecatch said:
The wonderful thing about being a Lakers fan is that the team can be among the most dysfunctional franchises in the league and still fall backwards into success. Somehow, despite being extremely lucky in the lottery yet still managing to blow 4 lottery picks, and making terrible free agent deals for years, and missing the playoffs for six years, Lebron and AD simply fell into their lap and they are instant contenders. Let’s not pretend that they’ve been well managed.
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LA is a good place to build a brand, they will always have that advantage. Allows for a lot of mistakes  :kicksrock:  

 
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