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2019-20 NBA Thread: new forum, same great taste (6 Viewers)

Wiggins has a horrible reputation in the league. Underachiever, not a player to build around, etc. 

Minnesota is a mess.
They're progressing. They have a top 10 player in the league, some expiring contracts, some interesting young players. The Dieng and Wiggins contracts really hurt them, but the new GM seems to have a new vision and has been really aggressive.  Also, I said Wiggins was never called the next Lebron, not disputing your Wiggins comment, even if I think it's a bit over blown.

Also I don't know if you heard but the Wolves signed Jake Layman.

 
Way too early NBA West rankings - LAC / LAL are probably the best two teams in the West, but don't overlook Utah/Denver, especially as regular season teams that will be tough to beat.

1) Denver

2) Utah

3) LAC

4) LAL

5) Portland

6) GSW

7) Houston

8 ) Spurs

9) New Orleans

10) Sacramento

11) Dallas

 
They're progressing. They have a top 10 player in the league, some expiring contracts, some interesting young players. The Dieng and Wiggins contracts really hurt them, but the new GM seems to have a new vision and has been really aggressive.  Also, I said Wiggins was never called the next Lebron, not disputing your Wiggins comment, even if I think it's a bit over blown.

Also I don't know if you heard but the Wolves signed Jake Layman.
I don't know too much about Ryan Saunders, but I watched an interview with him and he came off as very intelligent, both intellectually and emotionally. He talked about his father, and the bond they had, and then he went into X's and O's about the team, and was very detailed about how he thought basketball should be played.

Very impressive, young dude. 

 
I think Wiggins was only billed as "the next Lebron" by the twitter randos who also called Ben Simmons the next Magic Johnson, called Brandon Ingram the next KD, and viewed Mitchell Robinson as an "Anthony Davis clone with better defensive upside." Those people ####### LOVE draft prospects.

 
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I don't know too much about Ryan Saunders, but I watched an interview with him and he came off as very intelligent, both intellectually and emotionally. He talked about his father, and the bond they had, and then he went into X's and O's about the team, and was very detailed about how he thought basketball should be played.

Very impressive, young dude. 
I like him a lot. The Wolves seem to finally have some smart guys in place and they have a star. Who knows how long this takes to get competitive, but if KAT forces a trade in a couple years I'll burn Target Center to the ground.

 
Way too early NBA West rankings - LAC / LAL are probably the best two teams in the West, but don't overlook Utah/Denver, especially as regular season teams that will be tough to beat.
Would love a LAK/LAC series.  Would be the first time in sports history that there was a playoff series between teams that share the same stadium.

 
Andrew Wiggins averaged 6.5 rebounds and 1.5 assists per game in college.  Even if you had never watched him play you would have to be literally insane to compare him to Lebron. Maybe Vince Carter or someone like that, but literally nobody compared him to Lebron. You guys are really pissing me off today.

 
So let’s say you’re Sam Presti. You start looking to deal Westbrook hoping to get offers of young players, picks and expiring contracts.  Let’s say those offers don’t come.  What would be the WORST offer you’d still accept? Would you be willing to give up draft assets to get rid of him?

 
Just Win Baby said:
If Kawhi leads the Clippers to the title this season, it elevates his status quite  a bit. But in the conversation for GOAT? Not a chance. Come on, man.
Disagree if he leads a loser franchise like the Clippers to a champion to go along with giving Canada their first championship that’s a feat no one in NBA history has done.  The fact he’s still in his prime absolutely it elevates him into that category.  Seriously how many guys have lead 3 different franchises to NBA titles?

i didn’t say that would make him the goat but he most certainly joins the conversation if he leads the Clippers to a title.

 
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Deamon said:
Would love a LAK/LAC series.  Would be the first time in sports history that there was a playoff series between teams that share the same stadium.
That would be awesome. Like barium enema awesome.

 
Just Win Baby said:
If Kawhi leads the Clippers to the title this season, it elevates his status quite  a bit. But in the conversation for GOAT? Not a chance. Come on, man.
Disagree if he leads a loser franchise like the Clippers to a champion to go along with giving Canada their first championship that’s a feat no one in NBA history has done.  The fact he’s still in his prime absolutely it elevates him into that category.  Seriously how many guys have lead 3 different franchises to NBA titles?

 i didn’t say that would make him the goat but he most certainly joins the conversation if he leads the Clippers to a title.
Jordan (15 seasons): 6 championships, 6 Finals MVPs, 5 MVPs, ROY, DPOY, 10 1st team All NBA selections, and 9 1st team All Defensive selections; averaged 30.1 ppg for his career, which is #1 in NBA history

Leonard (8 seasons and counting): 2 championships, 2 Finals MVPs, 0 MVPs, 2 DPOYs, 2 1st team All NBA selections, and 3 1st team All Defensive selections; averaged 17.7 ppg in career to date

No matter what Leonard does this season, it does not put him in any serious conversation for GOAT. If he has 5 more dominant seasons, maybe it could happen, but they would have to be truly dominant, with a lot of earned honors/awards in addition to more championships. He has a long way to go just to crack the top 25 players of all-time, much less get into the GOAT conversation.

Leading 3 franchises to championships hasn't been done because we have only just reached this era of frequent movement of elite players between franchises. Someone will be the first to do it, but that by itself doesn't equate to GOAT discussion.

And, despite winning Finals MVP in 2013-14, Duncan was still the better player in that playoff run, averaging more points on better shooting, more rebounds, more assists, more blocks, and fewer turnovers. This past season was the only one in which Leonard was the alpha player on a championship team.

 
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Yea let's not get too far ahead of ourselves on Kawhi hype. He played great this post season but he only played 60 games in the regular season and the Raptors still won like 17 games when he was out. 

He's no where near the Jordan LeBron tier. He's not even in the Kobe tier yet. He's got a ways to go.

 
They do?

In no particular order: Leonard, Curry, Durant, Lebron, Giannis, Harden, Davis, Embiid, Jokic, George. I don't think any of them play for Minnesota.
A case can be made that Towns has as much claim to top ten player in the league as Embiid, Jokic, and George, IMO. Not sure I would go that far, but the dude is really ####### good, and only 23 years old at that

 
Deamon said:
Would love a LAK/LAC series.  Would be the first time in sports history that there was a playoff series between teams that share the same stadium.
St Louis Cardinals and St Louis Browns played the 1944 World Series in Sportsmans Park

Might have been some others long ago in NY at Polo Grounds

ETA. 21 and 22 World Series between Yankees and Giants played at Polo Grounds

 
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St Louis Cardinals and St Louis Browns played the 1944 World Series in Sportsmans Park

Might have been some others long ago in NY at Polo Grounds

ETA. 21 and 22 World Series between Yankees and Giants played at Polo Grounds
Nice didn't know about those.  Did a quick search but mainly looked at Staples and jets/giants. Either way it's been quite some time and would be cool. A series with zero travel, the players swapping locker rooms ever few games, etc. 

 
Jordan has 6 championships, 6 Finals MVPs, 5 MVPs, ROY, DPOY, 10 1st team All NBA selections, and 9 1st team All Defensive selections

Leonard has 2 championships, 2 Finals MVPs, 0 MVPs, 2 DPOYs, 2 1st team All NBA selections, and 3 1st team All Defensive selections

No matter what Leonard does this season, it does not put him in any serious conversation for GOAT. If he has 5 more dominant seasons, maybe it could happen, but they would have to be truly dominant, with a lot of earned honors/awards in addition to more championships. He has a long way to go just to crack the top 25 players of all-time, much less get into the GOAT conversation.

Leading 3 franchises to championships hasn't been done because we have only just reached this era of frequent movement of elite players between franchises. Someone will be the first to do it, but that by itself doesn't equate to GOAT discussion.

And, despite winning Finals MVP in 2013-14, Duncan was still the better player in that playoff run, averaging more points on better shooting, more rebounds, more assists, more blocks, and fewer turnovers. This past season was the only one in which Leonard was the alpha player on a championship team.
Was about to say many of the same things. The league is so different now with movement, I find it hard to go over the top on the "3 different teams" thing.  It's like saying Carr and Cousins are better qbs than Montana because they both threw 4000 yards this season and Joe never did that. 

 
They do?

In no particular order: Leonard, Curry, Durant, Lebron, Giannis, Harden, Davis, Embiid, Jokic, George. I don't think any of them play for Minnesota.
A case can be made that Towns has as much claim to top ten player in the league as Embiid, Jokic, and George, IMO. Not sure I would go that far, but the dude is really ####### good, and only 23 years old at that
KAT is a really good player. I think it's fair to say he is a top 20 player. But he has been in the league 4 seasons and his most significant honor/award is making 3rd team All NBA a single time (2017-18).

Meanwhile, Jokic was 1st team All NBA in 2018-19, Embiid has been 2nd team All NBA and All Defensive in each of the last 2 seasons, and George has made All NBA and All Defensive teams a total of 9 times in his career, including 1st team for both in 2018-19.

Maybe he will eventually get there, but there is no real justification for Towns as a top 10 player right now. :shrug:  

 
Frostillicus said:
Andrew Wiggins averaged 6.5 rebounds and 1.5 assists per game in college.  Even if you had never watched him play you would have to be literally insane to compare him to Lebron. Maybe Vince Carter or someone like that, but literally nobody compared him to Lebron. You guys are really pissing me off today.
He was VERY hyped coming out. I remember lots of talk of teams tanking to get him.

"Many pundits feel that he could turn out to be an even better pro than Anthony Davis. Wiggins was the unanimous choice for the # 1 spot this year and for good reason. He possesses the special athleticism that separates very good players from great players. To round out his athleticism, he has matured and become more assertive and his refined skill package is a result of that. His jump shot from deep and in the midrange departments have greatly increased and he is more aggressive than he's ever been. His handle, speed off the dribble and ability to get to the rim are "Kobe-esque". There were times this Spring when he simply looked like a man amongst boys. The alarming thing about it is that he still has a long way to go to become the type of player he is capable of. He is a special talent and has unlimited potential. If he continues to stay hungry and work to improve, we're looking at the game's next superstar. "

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/andrew-wiggins

 
He was VERY hyped coming out. I remember lots of talk of teams tanking to get him.

"Many pundits feel that he could turn out to be an even better pro than Anthony Davis. Wiggins was the unanimous choice for the # 1 spot this year and for good reason. He possesses the special athleticism that separates very good players from great players. To round out his athleticism, he has matured and become more assertive and his refined skill package is a result of that. His jump shot from deep and in the midrange departments have greatly increased and he is more aggressive than he's ever been. His handle, speed off the dribble and ability to get to the rim are "Kobe-esque". There were times this Spring when he simply looked like a man amongst boys. The alarming thing about it is that he still has a long way to go to become the type of player he is capable of. He is a special talent and has unlimited potential. If he continues to stay hungry and work to improve, we're looking at the game's next superstar. "

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/andrew-wiggins
Well, Fultz was also the unanimous #1 overall pick the year he came out.

 
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A case can be made that Towns has as much claim to top ten player in the league as Embiid, Jokic, and George, IMO. Not sure I would go that far, but the dude is really ####### good, and only 23 years old at that
I agree that he can be in the conversation for the last couple spots in the top 10.

i would still take those three ahead of him certainly until he can get better on defense.  I realize that jokic is not great on d either, but he is a better all around offensive player.

 
I agree that he can be in the conversation for the last couple spots in the top 10.

i would still take those three ahead of him certainly until he can get better on defense.  I realize that jokic is not great on d either, but he is a better all around offensive player.
Jokic is an A+++ passer, but KAT is better in the other offensive aspects (40% from three on a high volume!).  Those two are definitely in the same tier. I’d put Lillard ahead of both I think. Centers are like running backs; fairly easily replaceable these days. 

 
Jokic is an A+++ passer, but KAT is better in the other offensive aspects (40% from three on a high volume!).  Those two are definitely in the same tier. I’d put Lillard ahead of both I think. Centers are like running backs; fairly easily replaceable these days. 
Jokic had similar 3 point numbers in 17-18, but for sure kat’s Shot is better and i would say more versatile

 
Insein said:
Many had said to trade Allen as early as 2003 because the writing was on the wall. But the old front offices wanted to build around him because he was the most popular player in the city and damn near the league. Like you said that, those decisions are why Hinkie had to come in and do what he did.

Hinkie wasn't demeaning to other owners. He had a plan and the sixers ownership backing him. He was executing that plan come hell or high water. It wasn't till the owners stabbed him in the back at the behest of Silver that he finally had to step down.

As for why other GMs don't get rid of stars early, it's because they don't want to be the guy that gave away a star who still had top tier years left. That's a death sentence job wise. Takes a real sharp evaluator and stones of steel to pull the trigger on getting rid of a stud close to their prime.

Or you can just be Jordan and let them walk for nothing.
According to Woj, Stephan A, Shams, Windhorst and others in NBA yes Hinkie thumbed his noise at the other owners. The other owners went to Silver because they were losing money on game revenue at home against the Sixers as many people knew the Sixers were intentionally losing and there for many teams weren't going to risk having their star players play and get hurt. Through those yrs the Sixers lost the NBA money and when you start losing your league money well the league will get involved. Also don't be mad at the Commissioner for having a set. The dude before him allowed corrupt officials, did nothing about it and numerous other issues go. Silver wants to create a better league. It's great. THere's no conspiracy against the Sixers. Whats worse people preventing a league from losing money and looking like a joke or allowing an owner at will to cheat the system, bring the league revenue down all for a chance to maybe draft a potential superstar? They were embarrassing the city and league with their antics. They are a big market team if you have to tank to acquire potential superstars in draft and hope that lures Superstar players to your team maybe its time to start questioning the guys making the decisions because a big market team there should be no excuses for those antics. 

Brown also had issues with Hinkie according to many in the league and close friends in the national media and from other coaches ex and current. This was also confirmed to me by a Sixers official who I talked about meeting during a game 3 yrs ago and literally almost everything he's said has been true or come to fruition. Brown also threatened the team he wouldn't be back if Hinkie stayed and it was clear Hinkie was just holding picks and no interest of using them to possible acquire a star player like Jerry Colangelo had realized from talking to US Men team National players. JC knew he had to trade for a star and hope they resigned in order to have any chance of acquiring another one in FA. It was also said the team would have to overpay for mid 2nd tier stars (Example Tobias Harris new deal) in order to keep fans happy and not revolt. Butler leaving was not a good thing at all when it comes to superstar wise. Yes the Sixers are in a better place now then they were but they have a PG who's Defense would be questionable at best if he was playing for Bos right who can't shoot, Their C as talented as he is pisses a ton of guys in the league off with his disrespect for players for a guy who's missed 3 of a total of 5 NBA seasons, eats like crap and maybe has 3 yrs at best of prime left with his injuries. You have an on the decline PF who's extended stats shows he doesn't play well with another big on the floor, Harris isn't athletic enough to play the SF and that contract is gonna be a real ##### to move in a few yrs. The bench at best is questionable. Considering how bad the East is I still expect a top 3 east finish but I wouldnt be shocked at a first or second round exit if they can't stay healthy and their lack of a bench. If it wasn't for the drafting of Embiid they'd be dreadful. Look at their overall combine record (games he was eligible to play but was hurt) the last few yrs. They'd be back to square one. Maybe you can say Tobias Harris helps it but he's not a superstar who could carry the team on his back. I'm not a Joel hater either. I was one of the few who actually liked the Sixers at the time drafting him while many Sixers fans hated it having Okafor and Noel already. Theres no questioning Joel's talent. its the antics and injuries thats a concern. Joel goes down or can't play anymore the team is ####ed big time and that's something Sixer fans either want to ignore or just looking at the team with blue and red colored glasses on. He was a risk worth taking though no doubt. You just don't pass on talent like him. I'm sure Clevland is regretting not taking him right now.  

As for getting rid of the stars. Sometimes the best move at the time isn't what many would consider the right move. There's definitely gonna be Thunder fans who don't want Westbrook gone but it's clear as day along with the AI situation at this point in his career for OKC to get better he needs to be traded now. However sometimes you Got to make that decision. Fans are impatient and fickle when it comes to these things. Think more with heart and emotion on things like this over business and what is best for the team/club now and the future. 

 
Deamon said:
Would love a LAK/LAC series.  Would be the first time in sports history that there was a playoff series between teams that share the same stadium.
Are you talking US? Only because theres been a few clubs in Soccer like AC Milan vs Inter Milan in multiple tournaments over the yrs who play in the same stadium and I'm sure theres a few other clubs who have as well against one another sharing grounds. 

 
strykerpks said:
You got a link to all that sixer success lately? Seems like 4 bounces interrupted a full on dynasty.

I'll hang up and listen. 

PS I won't
didn't mean to offend. You guys are a great regular season team. should tear it up again and probably get near a 60-win season. that will be plenty of fun

 
strykerpks said:
You got a link to all that sixer success lately? Seems like 4 bounces interrupted a full on dynasty.

I'll hang up and listen. 

PS I won't
They better hope Embiid stays healthy because they are ####ed. Have you even seen their record in games eligible Embiid has missed combined the Sixers are without him? Ben's first year they went on a huge skid from Dec to Jan I believe Embiid was out and they struggled big time to the point there were articles on questioning if the experts had overrated the team. Now I know most of that record is also combined with Butler and Harris but Butler is gone is Harris is not someone if Embiid is out for a long time to rely on. A few GM's have even said it already Sixers were lucky to get Embiid because without him it would've been a total failure. Granted it's not a success yet because the overall goal from this is to win an NBA title but without Emiid it'd be a failure. You'd have a PG who is afraid of Contact, can't shoot is has a worse FT shooting numbers then DeAndre Jordan and a bunch of JAGs. 

 
Frostillicus said:
Literally nobody called Wiggins the next Lebron. 
Why people say Wiggy is the Next Lebron

Wiggins the next Lebron

Andrew Wiggins considered the next Lebron

Foxsports Meet the Next Lebron

whoops those pesky facts getting in the way again. A simple Google search Andrew Wiggins the Next LeBron James brings up multiple articles on this And then 

Google Search Ben Simmons next Lebron

I know people love to use the whole oh no one said that about that player. It's a copout instead of saying yeah I admit they and I were wrong about those guys. 

 
NutterButter said:
The Next Lebron.  :lol:   He wasn't even that good in his college year.
Yet I just posted a couple articles with that comparison and I do agree with you he wasn't that great in college. Neither was Ben Simmons. Both were pretty underwhelming didn't come close to the talent in college people said they were 

 
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That guy is killing it, what's his latest?
Who knows if the kawhi to Toronto reporters were totally blowing smoke or had bad info, but we do need to consider the improbability of what the clippers pulled off getting George, which seems to be the lynchpin of this move.  I think there is a totally reasonable scenario where kawhi was thinking he would return to Toronto unless an unlikely set of circumstances all came together to make the clippers the perfect situation.  The unlikely happened and this the outcome changed.  Doesn’t necessarily make the reports of him staying wrong.  These things are very fluid.

 
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Frostillicus said:
Andrew Wiggins averaged 6.5 rebounds and 1.5 assists per game in college.  Even if you had never watched him play you would have to be literally insane to compare him to Lebron. Maybe Vince Carter or someone like that, but literally nobody compared him to Lebron. You guys are really pissing me off today.
A lot of the comparisons were coming based on what he was doing in HS still had it in College to a degree. I remember on my old forum and amongst my friends defending the tanking with we could get the potential next Lebron in Wiggy too. So there was some comparisons even if bull#### there still was. Like I said I think they were more copouts to defend tanking 

 
So let’s say you’re Sam Presti. You start looking to deal Westbrook hoping to get offers of young players, picks and expiring contracts.  Let’s say those offers don’t come.  What would be the WORST offer you’d still accept? Would you be willing to give up draft assets to get rid of him?
I'd be willing to give-up a protected first and chance for a team to swap first another year if it had to be done just to get out of the albatross of that deal. I heard Hou might be a destination though somehow someway. harden Westbrook together? Get the popcorn ready as that might be the best reality TV in yrs. 

 
I say Straight swap for Harden. Salaries match.
Chris Paul for Westbrook straight up.  OKC gets off an albatross salary a year earlier.  Houston gets the younger and, arguably, better player.  

I wouldn’t do it from Houston side due to Russ’s poor shooting and ball dominating but it’s interesting to think about.

 
I'd be willing to give-up a protected first and chance for a team to swap first another year if it had to be done just to get out of the albatross of that deal. I heard Hou might be a destination though somehow someway. harden Westbrook together? Get the popcorn ready as that might be the best reality TV in yrs. 
I might have to buy NBATV to watch those two "play" together

 
Jordan (15 seasons): 6 championships, 6 Finals MVPs, 5 MVPs, ROY, DPOY, 10 1st team All NBA selections, and 9 1st team All Defensive selections; averaged 30.1 ppg for his career, which is #1 in NBA history

Leonard (8 seasons and counting): 2 championships, 2 Finals MVPs, 0 MVPs, 2 DPOYs, 2 1st team All NBA selections, and 3 1st team All Defensive selections; averaged 17.7 ppg in career to date

No matter what Leonard does this season, it does not put him in any serious conversation for GOAT. If he has 5 more dominant seasons, maybe it could happen, but they would have to be truly dominant, with a lot of earned honors/awards in addition to more championships. He has a long way to go just to crack the top 25 players of all-time, much less get into the GOAT conversation.

Leading 3 franchises to championships hasn't been done because we have only just reached this era of frequent movement of elite players between franchises. Someone will be the first to do it, but that by itself doesn't equate to GOAT discussion.

And, despite winning Finals MVP in 2013-14, Duncan was still the better player in that playoff run, averaging more points on better shooting, more rebounds, more assists, more blocks, and fewer turnovers. This past season was the only one in which Leonard was the alpha player on a championship team.
I always hate this stat being used by analyst. I saw this on Foxsports/ESPN/NBATV/etc pages all over social media when Lebron won with Clevland making it seem like amazing saying he did something Magic and MJ didn't do. It's a no #### Sherlock thank you captain obvious. Not a huge deal we just started an era like this 

 
Nice didn't know about those.  Did a quick search but mainly looked at Staples and jets/giants. Either way it's been quite some time and would be cool. A series with zero travel, the players swapping locker rooms ever few games, etc. 
I thought Staples had two separate home team locker rooms one for each team. I know in Milan The San Siro has one Locker room dedicated to AC and the Other Inter the Away team has it's own separate dressing room from the two. 

 

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