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2019-20 NBA Thread: new forum, same great taste (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Capella
- Start date
metoo
Footballguy
Deamon
Footballguy
Yeah I guess so. Couldn't JJ have found a starting gig somewhere though? It just seems weird he went there especially after the big free agency documentary on him last year where he pretty much hinted he wanted the rest of his career on the upper East Coast.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I readily admit last year was a dumpster fire as far as the Celtics go . . . from Ainge to Stevens to Kyrie to the rest of the players. Ainge sat too long on his assets and had to win every potential trade (and put the wrong puzzle pieces together). I think the way things ended with Thomas left a black mark against Boston in the eyes of many other NBA players. Stevens lost control of the team and there was non-stop bickering and finger pointing. Too many guys felt entitled to way more minutes and collectively the team got away from playing team basketball. Instead, when guys got minutes, they wanted to prove they deserved more minutes and tried too hard to stand out instead of pass the ball around. I've heard reports that the youth contingent didn't practice hard. They tried to get Hayward more involved when he wasn't ready and in general the team seemed too intent to either chuck up threes or have Kyrie work the shot clock down and take a last second shot. Bottom line, the collection of players they had wasn't working, so moving on from that group and situation is probably a good thing. The puzzle pieces didn't fit and the chemistry was non-existent.
That being said, the talking heads that are suggesting that Kemba + better chemistry is as good (or better) as Kyrie are missing the bigger picture. The current Celtics have no size, centers, power forwards, or much defense beyond Smart. Even if we say Kemba for Kyrie is a push (which it isn't, but let's just say it is), Boston will be without Horford, Baynes, and Morris. For now they have to replace them with unproven players. On paper, this team looks soft. Other than Smart, I don't see a lot of guys that are going to get dirty and play physical. They might win some games 128-125, but the team that held opponents to under 100 points a few years ago is long gone. Now their guy to hold down Giannis or Embiid is . . . Semi Ojeleye?
I got a good laugh listening to talk radio where there were discussions saying that Boston had a great chance to be the 2 seed in the East (after MIL) if Kawhi left TOR. I just don't see how the Celtics as constituted should be considered any better than last year. They basically added Kemba but lost Kyrie, Horford, Baynes, Morris, and Rozier (and replaced those guys with three rookies). Maybe they have more moves coming, but they look like a .500 team.
That being said, the talking heads that are suggesting that Kemba + better chemistry is as good (or better) as Kyrie are missing the bigger picture. The current Celtics have no size, centers, power forwards, or much defense beyond Smart. Even if we say Kemba for Kyrie is a push (which it isn't, but let's just say it is), Boston will be without Horford, Baynes, and Morris. For now they have to replace them with unproven players. On paper, this team looks soft. Other than Smart, I don't see a lot of guys that are going to get dirty and play physical. They might win some games 128-125, but the team that held opponents to under 100 points a few years ago is long gone. Now their guy to hold down Giannis or Embiid is . . . Semi Ojeleye?
I got a good laugh listening to talk radio where there were discussions saying that Boston had a great chance to be the 2 seed in the East (after MIL) if Kawhi left TOR. I just don't see how the Celtics as constituted should be considered any better than last year. They basically added Kemba but lost Kyrie, Horford, Baynes, Morris, and Rozier (and replaced those guys with three rookies). Maybe they have more moves coming, but they look like a .500 team.
Deamon
Footballguy
I could see jj starting over favors actually as an article I just read is saying that's what's expected.
I also totally forgot about Frank Jackson. Half the team is from Duke, that's crazy. Not sure 5 from the same school have ever been on an NBA team together? Someone research this for me haha.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
I'm sure they will play small ball at times but why trade for Favors and Draft Jaxson Hayes if you are going to play Zion at the 5?
Capella
Footballguy
From twitter:
David Griffin’s 1st 2 months in #NOLA:
Drafted:
Zion
Hayes
Alexander-Walker
Silva
Signed:
Redick
Melli
Acquired:
Ball
Ingram
Hart
CLE protected ‘20 1st
LA ‘21 1st if top 8
LA ‘22 1st if not
LA swap 1sts in ‘23
LA 1st in 24 or 25
Hired:
Langdon
Cash
Nelson
Dumped:
Hill ($12M)
David Griffin’s 1st 2 months in #NOLA:
Drafted:
Zion
Hayes
Alexander-Walker
Silva
Signed:
Redick
Melli
Acquired:
Ball
Ingram
Hart
CLE protected ‘20 1st
LA ‘21 1st if top 8
LA ‘22 1st if not
LA swap 1sts in ‘23
LA 1st in 24 or 25
Hired:
Langdon
Cash
Nelson
Dumped:
Hill ($12M)
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
So who could be a player for Dragic? Knicks? Could sixers swing a shooter somehow out of this or are they unable to take anyone back?
caustic
Footballguy
Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn
Sources: Washington gets some pick value in sign-and-trade: Chicago eliminates protections on 2023 second-round pick to Washington; Wizards get better of Memphis and Chicago's 2020 second-round pick; Wiz get right to swap Lakers 2022 second w/ better of Chi/Det. 2022 seconds.
8:06 AM · Jul 1, 2019
Sources: Washington gets some pick value in sign-and-trade: Chicago eliminates protections on 2023 second-round pick to Washington; Wizards get better of Memphis and Chicago's 2020 second-round pick; Wiz get right to swap Lakers 2022 second w/ better of Chi/Det. 2022 seconds.
8:06 AM · Jul 1, 2019
Insein
Footballguy
Sixers beat the Nets in 5. They'd have beaten them without Jimmy. Sixers go as far as Ben and Joel can take them. This was always the case. That's why they lock Ben up now instead of having him bolt to LA in 2 years.
As for Jimmy, would have loved to have him but the reality is he's going to be 30 and averaged 65 games played a year for his career. I guess Brand took emotion out of it and decided a player that old with that injury history was not worth 4 or 5 years. They did good to get a young rising player in Richardson back to go with the sixers young core.
Loved JJs offense. His defense was a liability. I was hoping he could be the spark off the bench this year for around $6-8m bit he got paid. Can't fault him.
Harris was a must keep for all they gave up. He's 27, he can shoot and he won't have to share as many looks now that JJ and Jimmy are gone. A full off season with the sixers should get him the rhythm he needs to be an all star. It's an overpay but a lot of these contracts are.
House more entertaining then most basketball heads. Dlow to gsw. Durant to nets. Butler to miami. al to sixers. Kawhi? No one really has much insider info anyway.
House is great.
Insein
Footballguy
Capella
Footballguy
Workhorse
Footballguy
It's a really interesting starting 5. Sixers will dominate the glass and will be a defensive monster but I have a feeling that their offense will look downright turgid at times. Still, they look like the favorite in the East for sure.
Sammy3469
Footballguy
I’m sure he could have, but if the Sixers were set on those moves, the only other really playoff ready teams with cap space would be either Clips or Lakers with both waiting for Kawhi.
He’s also good friends with Trajan.
Deamon
Footballguy
I wouldn't say "for sure". They're probably dead even with the bucks. And if kawhi stays, Toronto will be #1.
We still need a bench and shooters. Would like Seth actually.
Workhorse
Footballguy
I think you'll round out with nice decent parts. My guess is that Harris will thrive with Butler gone and Horford is the PERFECT fit since he doesn't demand the ball at all and is a great passer at the 4 and allows Embiid to roam the paint instead of sitting at the top of the key. The only wild card is Brett Brown since I'm not sure if he can coach this team to unlock all of these pieces.
timschochet
Footballguy
Article about Kawhi’s conversation with Magic Johnson on Sunday:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.silverscreenandroll.com/platform/amp/2019/7/1/20676798/lakers-free-agent-rumors-kawhi-leonard-magic-johnson-trade-medical-team-staff-uncle-dennis
All in all it sounds very promising. I’m getting my hopes worked up....
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.silverscreenandroll.com/platform/amp/2019/7/1/20676798/lakers-free-agent-rumors-kawhi-leonard-magic-johnson-trade-medical-team-staff-uncle-dennis
All in all it sounds very promising. I’m getting my hopes worked up....
Back during the 2015 draft, it was widely reported that Boston offered 4 firsts to move up to #9. Jordan nixed the deal:
The Celtics offered four first-round picks for the chance to move up from no. 16 to no. 9: that 16th pick, no. 15 (acquired in a prearranged contingency deal with the Hawks), one unprotected future Brooklyn pick, and a future first-rounder from either the Grizzlies or Timberwolves, per sources familiar with the talks.
Some members of Charlotte’s front office liked the Boston deal, but Michael Jordan, the team’s owner and ultimate decision-maker, preferred Kaminsky to a pile of first-rounders outside the lottery, per several sources. That’s justifiable, if you think your guy at no. 9 has a chance at stardom. The talent gap between no. 9 and no. 15 is real; ask Boston how it felt to squeeze into the playoffs, get demolished by a Cavs team in chill mode, and watch Justise Winslow fall right where it could have picked had it won three fewer games.
Fast forward to today. Kaminsky is a free agent. That #16 pick? Terry Rozier, who will cost the Hornets almost $20mm a year guaranteed over the next 3 years. And don't even think about where those unprotected Brooklyn picks ended up. What a disaster.
I am glad I didn't make this connection last night or drinking would have continued early into the AM.
The Celtics offered four first-round picks for the chance to move up from no. 16 to no. 9: that 16th pick, no. 15 (acquired in a prearranged contingency deal with the Hawks), one unprotected future Brooklyn pick, and a future first-rounder from either the Grizzlies or Timberwolves, per sources familiar with the talks.
Some members of Charlotte’s front office liked the Boston deal, but Michael Jordan, the team’s owner and ultimate decision-maker, preferred Kaminsky to a pile of first-rounders outside the lottery, per several sources. That’s justifiable, if you think your guy at no. 9 has a chance at stardom. The talent gap between no. 9 and no. 15 is real; ask Boston how it felt to squeeze into the playoffs, get demolished by a Cavs team in chill mode, and watch Justise Winslow fall right where it could have picked had it won three fewer games.
Fast forward to today. Kaminsky is a free agent. That #16 pick? Terry Rozier, who will cost the Hornets almost $20mm a year guaranteed over the next 3 years. And don't even think about where those unprotected Brooklyn picks ended up. What a disaster.
I am glad I didn't make this connection last night or drinking would have continued early into the AM.
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Worm
slimy ninja
I have heard this a million times. I never believed it, and I still don't. I don't believe that the Celts would ever offer that much, and don't believe that MJ would be dumb enough to not accept. I just... can't believe it.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
I'm not a huge fan of that deal either. With that said--I do think we are at an interesting point in the free agency period. Many of the big names are gone. There are still a decent amount of teams that needed or hoped to make moves that didn't or haven't yet. My guess is that many of the deals that occur from this point on are either going to feel like really good deals or really bad ones. Players will either take less to sign with a team that they want to play for--or desperate teams will overpay for the remaining assets.
I love a good Dolan hate session and predicted the Nets were more likely for KD/Kyrie back in March..BUT...I think this entire story goes differently if the lottery balls gave them Zion. That would have given them a much better chance of attracting top FAs.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
I'm guessing it will have to be the Lakers or Clippers, whoever misses on Kawhi. Seems like more of a Lakers thing, though I would think the Clippers could be interested for the right asset (though I have no idea where that will come from here).
Knicks don't have enough cap space to take him straight in now.
I also have wondered if there is a way to work in Cleveland with the JR Smith contract.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Dallas might be getting really screwed here. If Dragic doesn't happen, they missed out on all the other guys that signed with other teams last night. I'll bet this was Miami's fault.
HellToupee
Footballguy
Sammy3469
Footballguy
I think the Knicks could make enough room to take him in if they wanted. I don’t see why they would want him without at least a first round pick (or two) attached.
Doug B
Footballguy
Added Derrick Favors to the Acquired list. Really hoping this all ends up adding up to something.
...
I hadn't realized two things about JJ Reddick:
1) That he scored his career high PPG just this past season, in his age 34 year.
2) That he didn't really become a starting NBA player until his NINTH season in the league.
You could very well be right, but I was so angry with that pick at the time. Even just the passing on Winslow piece.I have heard this a million times. I never believed it, and I still don't. I don't believe that the Celts would ever offer that much, and don't believe that MJ would be dumb enough to not accept. I just... can't believe it.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Yeah, I know they are close, so I did consider that.
As to the bolded, I mean, have you seen what they've done so far in FA... not sure I would apply so much logic.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
i guess in a way, what the Knicks have done is not so far off of what Leroux did in the mock, except that they are giving 2-3 year deals instead of 1. Which was probably always more realistic, since Leroux was being more unrealistically prudent and knew that the other GMs in the mock would be the same.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
I find it funny how seemingly every free agent was ready to sign with someone last night except Kawhi.
Sammy3469
Footballguy
My worst fear is that they are deep enough and just good enough to go 30-52. They haven’t done anything completely objectionable, bedsides eating up cap space to absorb contracts for picks. Plus at least Gibson and Bullock will have a trade market this winter (I think they want to see if either Portis or Randle turns into something).
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
yeah, i guess really they are all 2 year deals since only randle has 3 but has that team option. So in that sense, and with next year's FA class so terrible, not such a big deal.
But I agree that they should have enough competent players to not be terrible, though if DSJ or Frankie are really the only answers at PG, it could be a real tire fire. In terms of winning games this year, Dragic actually wouldn't be a terrible move.
timschochet
Footballguy
If the Lakers sign Kawhi, FS1 is reporting they may also end up with Iguodala, Seth Curry, and Danny Green. And Rondo would re-sign.
What a team that would be...
What a team that would be...
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wikkidpissah
Footballguy
Would have preferred he & Scary Terry to Kemba and hurts even more to lose him to Philly, but i gotta say one thing on Al Horford's behalf - he been saying since Atlanta he don't like the 5, can't stand pushing on big fellas & them pushing on him, wearing him out. The only way to give them knees a break is to sign up to play NEXT to the biggest mf in the league. God be with you, old man...
Doug B
Footballguy
Why isn't Toronto a stronger player for Kawhi Leonard? I guess I've never truly grokked the player culture of the 2010s NBA**. Just seems odd that a championship team has no real pull to keep a team together.
** ever since LeBron's "The Decision" broadcast. Seems like the league turned a page then.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
how would they sign Danny Green? Unless he is taking a big haircut, I don't see how they could make him fit.
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
And that the Lakers, Clips, and Raps are in a holding pattern (except for Beverly going back to LAC) because of it?
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Haven't paid attention to the deals but are they lining up Gibson, Randle, Ellington, Bullock and Portis on the same contract length so they all come off the books at the same time preferable when the next set of good UFA is available?
As much we make fun of the Knicks losing out on Kyrie/Durant they are still in a way better situation than Charlotte or Washington, IMO.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
I think that they are. It seems like it was basically Toronto or LA and Kawhi still wants to decide. Kawhi definitely seems to march to the beat of his own drum, so I don't think it's a matter of Toronto not being able to keep it together.
Worm
slimy ninja
Someone thinks Iggy and Danny are both gonna play for the min? They each made 10+ mil last year.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
i assume Iggy will get bought out and then be willing to take a very low amount somewhere. that part is not impossible.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
And Seth Curry has only made about $10 million in career earnings. He should sign with the highest bidder.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
well nevermind about all this. Knicks sign Ellington for 2/16.
Hurts Sixers on 2 fronts. ugh.
Doug B
Footballguy
The NBA "cap" is hard to figure out.
If Iguodala gets bought out, what team assumes that buy-out money against their cap? Not doubting ... just don't understand all the exceptions and cap tricks teams use.
(Is there a specific reason that the NBA doesn't use a hard no-exceptions salary cap? I guess the NBA players' union keeps that from happening ... different milieu and culture than the NFL)
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