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2019-20 NBA Thread: new forum, same great taste (11 Viewers)

Charlie Harper said:
Curry/DLO/McKinnie/Draymond/Looney

Dame/CJ/Bazemore/Collins/Whiteside

Looking at the starting 5 (Jacob Evans, GR3, Burks, and McKinne will be battling it out for starting SF), I'd still take the Warriors over the Trailblazers. Offensively there's not much separation. Defense is where the Warriors are better. Draymond is a DPOY and Looney is a plus defender. Whiteside is block chasing big and makes bonehead plays. Bazemore is a solid defender, but that's pretty much it. 

Hood/Hezonja/Skal

Vs

Glenn Robinson 3/Alec Burks/WCS

I mean the bench is what it is. Both have inconsistent wings and a big. Hood is the best of the bunch, but I think GR3 or Burks can provide 80% of what Hood does. 

Myers has done a great job filling the rest of the roster. 
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I'm not delusional enough to believe the Blazers are better than GS in any lineup iteration in any recent or near future season.  GS flat out owns Portland. 

But where would you slot Portland in the West and do you see them below Utah and Denver? 

 
Long Ball Larry said:
sure, pretty much everything being reported is from a second-hand source at best.  Not directly from the player or team, unless they want something specific out there for their own purposes.  but if you are a good reporter, you try to get input from as many of those sources as possible.  And then you try to take those sources together and infer what is going on.  Now certainly no one should have been making any predictions about 100% or 99% sure.  And different people could have different interpretations of the information that they knew.  But it would not have been unreasonable for any individual with some of this knowledge to say that he thought it was 60-70% likely that Kawhi would do one thing or another.  Then just because it turned out differently doesn't necessarily make that person wrong. 
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Read the bolded.  I didn't say that anyone said 60-70%.  This was a hypothetical.  I was saying that IF someone had said that, it would have been a reasonable way to present the reality and forecast the future.  I was saying that no one should have been stating things as if they knew, but it was totally reasonable to make an educated guess that he was going back to Toronto based on information available to them.  And the fact that  Kawhi went to LAC wouldn't make a person wrong if he had said that there was a 60-70% chance of Kawhi returning to Toronto.

Based on what Lowe said, which is that he was hearing absolutely nothing out of the Clippers' camp, I suspect that a lot of people interpreted that to mean that LAC wasn't going to happen.  Lowe mentioned that the total absence of info sort of pushed him toward LAC, because it was rather odd to hear nothing.  But this is an example of the signals that people try to read and make different inferences about.

Rodrigo Duterte said:
Where did you get the 60-70%?
Click to expand...

 
Long Ball Larry said:
And the fact that Kawhi went to LAC wouldn't make a person wrong if he had said that there was a 60-70% chance of Kawhi returning to Toronto
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But he didn't say that.  He said his "source" was that Kawhi was going to Toronto.  You put it at 60-70%, nobody else.  You were the one that said that "IF he had said there was a 60-70% chance".  That was never the case and changes the argument completely.

No big deal, but you definitely changed the parameters here.

 
Jayrod said:
Can that lineup either guard PG's effectively or punish them enough offensively to make it work?
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It's going to be an issue. It's also a lineup that, except for Green, isn't going to strike fear in anybody from the arc. Nobody that you can leave completely alone a la Tony Allen, but certainly guys you can cheat off of.

I'm skeptical that the spacing is going to be optimal with Cousins and Davis at the same time, I think the former's going to end up in a pure backup role eventually. The other issue is that James is a much better roll man in the PNR than a ball handler (again, iffy outside shooting), who ends up running the PNR? James/Davis is good, but it's not really optimal given how talented those two are.

 
General Malaise said:
I'm not delusional enough to believe the Blazers are better than GS in any lineup iteration in any recent or near future season.  GS flat out owns Portland. 

But where would you slot Portland in the West and do you see them below Utah and Denver? 
Click to expand...
Definitely below Jazz and Denver.

1. LAC

2. LAL

3. DEN

4. UTAH

5. HOU

6. GSW

7. POR

8. SAS

I'm comfortable saying the Top 6 will make it. Spurs missing a MVP caliber player and Portland defense holds them back from serious contention. SAC and DAL have a chance, but that's thinking the young players will improve which isn't guaranteed. The West is crazy deep....really injuries is what will determine who makes it the 2nd season.

 
Deamon said:
Ok I'll bite one more time.

- Bennet wasn't even in Embiid's draft, not sure what you are talking about.
- Who said they were going to dominate all year?  No one.  Stop making arguments up.
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Sorry I meant Wiggins. 

And all I'm saying is I don't think the 76ers made enough changes to get any further then they are now. They overpaid for Haris both in the trade and resigning him because they got desperate after losing Butler. I'd have gotten rid of Simmons or at least look into getting rid of him while he still has some value and bringing in a capable PG who can shoot. Unless and IF and these are big IF's Embiid stays healthy and Ben can find some sort of Jumper I see some short term success for the team but long term not great. 

 
Charlie Harper said:
Definitely below Jazz and Denver.

1. LAC

2. LAL

3. DEN

4. UTAH

5. HOU

6. GSW

7. POR

8. SAS

I'm comfortable saying the Top 6 will make it. Spurs missing a MVP caliber player and Portland defense holds them back from serious contention. SAC and DAL have a chance, but that's thinking the young players will improve which isn't guaranteed. The West is crazy deep....really injuries is what will determine who makes it the 2nd season.
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Blazers will once again finish in the top 4 next year.  Crazy how every year they get no respect.

 
Good Posting Judge said:
The other issue is that James is a much better roll man in the PNR than a ball handler (again, iffy outside shooting), who ends up running the PNR? James/Davis is good, but it's not really optimal given how talented those two are.
Click to expand...
LeBron has always been a great roll man because he's an athletic all-timer, but at this stage of his career his vision and ability to read defenses to make decisions is more important.  I believe that AD/LBJ pick-and-roll combo is going to be lethal this season.

Charlie Harper said:
Portland defense holds them back from serious contention. 
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In past seasons they would have their good defensive forwards kill them on offense and eventually go 3-4 guards and 1-2 bigs.  It seems they've just constructed their roster this season with that already in mind.  Whiteside has been a big disappointment the last few seasons in Miami, but he'll clear the boards and could be a good defensive center again in Portland's drop scheme.  When Nurk comes back they could have a nice rotation to beat down teams in the playoffs.

 
Jayrod said:
Here's my super early rankings of the teams by conference.  There is a huge gap in strength between the conferences.  With the East, I was looking for any reason to move a team up the rankings, with the West it was the opposite.  To put it simply, I believe every West team but the Suns could be a playoff team in the East.

East:

  1. Bucks - This is close to the same squad that had the best record last season.  From what I've seen of Giannis in his career, he will improve a bit, which is very scary considering he just won MVP.  I expect them to dominate a weak conference.
  2. 76ers - They have some things to figure out, but easily the most talented starting 5 in the East, if not the league.  I don't believe in Brown and think they are wasting some prime years of talent with a mid-level coach.
  3. Pacers - I like what they have done and think they are the clear cut #3.  Any injuries to the above teams and they will be ready to pounce.
  4. Celtics - I think they land here by default due to what is below.  They are talented, but have a lot to figure out and some holes.  They are my squad and in Brad I Trust, but there is a lot of work to do.
  5. Nets - Similar to Boston, I just don't see anyone below that I can put above them.  Kyrie makes them a few wins better than D'Angelo and with Toronto being weaker, they get bumped up a slot from last season.
  6. Heat - Lots of changes and a net positive.  Don't know if it is possible, but landing Westbrook could put them up to #4.  Like Spo a lot and think Jimmy will get them to the playoffs or die trying.
  7. Raptors - Still a lot of good players there and they know how to win, but with no Kawhi and no Derozan, they are only here by default.  They could easily fall out of the playoffs with any kind of hangover or bad luck.
  8. Magic - They have some nice pieces and if Vuc can get back to playing really well, I could see them climbing higher.
  9. Hawks - They are a team on the rise, but still a notch below the playoffs.
  10. Knicks - I actually like what they have done and think they make a jump this year.  They have a lot to learn, but are much more talented than last year.
  11. Pistons - I don't see Blake being as good or as healthy as last year, and they barely squeaked into the playoffs last year.  If they could land Westbrook, that could be something.
  12. Wizards - I really wish Beal had gotten away from this dumpster fire.  He is good, they are not.  Even Wall coming back mid-season won't get them into the playoffs.
  13. Bulls - They have some decent players, but just don't seem to have a clear path to winning games on a regular basis.
  14. Hornets - They lost their one great player and got nothing in return, and weren't even a playoff team with him.
  15. Cavaliers - Sexton and Garland together will make some entertaining plays, but they don't have much else and will be horrible on defense.
West:

  1. Clippers - Two 2-way, All-NBA studs in their prime with a good team around them and a good coach.  Clear cut favorites to win it all.
  2. Lakers - LeBron and AD is just too much for most teams to handle, no matter the rest.  They are doing what they had to do after the Kawhi news and just need to stay healthy.  Say what you want about LBJ, but he knows how to win.
  3. Jazz - I liked them last year until they flamed out in the playoffs.  They have added some really good pieces that fit.  My personal favorite team in the West.
  4. Rockets - Still super talented.  Still super dysfunctional.
  5. Blazers - They've quietly made a lot of changes and could be much better or much worse, but they took some swings not unlike what Toronto did last year.  This will not be the same Portland team.
  6. Nuggets - Probably too low, but I'm just not sold yet.  If the Jazz don't gel and the Rockets and Blazers flame out, they could easily get the 3 seed...that I put them here just shows how stupid the depth is in the West.
  7. Warriors - It is still Steph and Draymond with some good players until Klay comes back.  This team will be better at the end of the year than the beginning.  Curry can't carry the offense all season long, so a lot will depend on how well D'Angelo plays.  They too could end up much higher than this.
  8. Spurs - Never, ever bet against Pop.  This team is really good, just not great.  Anyone above them falters and they will move up.  Very tough out in the playoffs.  If their youth develops, they could be even more dangerous.
  9. Mavericks - They've got talent, but have a lot to figure out with Kristaps on the floor.  They will figure it out eventually.  How quickly that happens will determine where they land.  That and keep KP healthy.
  10. Kings - They were fun last year and should get better this year.  Unfortunately for them, so did everyone else.  They have a shot at like the 7-8 seed if stuff falls their way, but I think they end up on the outside looking in again.
  11. Timberwolves - Not a lot to love, but they will be solid enough to stay somewhat relevant until the end.
  12. Thunder - This team is in a lot of flux with trying to move Westbrook still.  If he stays, they could be better than this.  They are a huge wildcard and landed two good players for PG, but in a loaded West, any uncertainty means trouble.
  13. Pelicans - I like what they are doing, but they will need time to learn and gel and 35-40 wins will probably lands you here.
  14. Grizzlies - Same as the Pelicans.
  15. Suns - They could climb out of the cellar, but it probably won't be much higher.  Too many good teams around here.
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Great list and write up.  Pretty much exactly how I have it too.

 
Charlie Harper said:
Definitely below Jazz and Denver.

1. LAC

2. LAL

3. DEN

4. UTAH

5. HOU

6. GSW

7. POR

8. SAS

I'm comfortable saying the Top 6 will make it. Spurs missing a MVP caliber player and Portland defense holds them back from serious contention. SAC and DAL have a chance, but that's thinking the young players will improve which isn't guaranteed. The West is crazy deep....really injuries is what will determine who makes it the 2nd season.
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That is going to be a very scary round 1 matchup for the Clippers.  They're going to be very upset that they drew the Spurs in round 1.

 
Lakers roster is getting pretty full.  They don't have room for Iggy and Korver now do they? 

#BringemBack2Broad

 
trader jake said:
In past seasons they would have their good defensive forwards kill them on offense and eventually go 3-4 guards and 1-2 bigs.  It seems they've just constructed their roster this season with that already in mind.  Whiteside has been a big disappointment the last few seasons in Miami, but he'll clear the boards and could be a good defensive center again in Portland's drop scheme.  When Nurk comes back they could have a nice rotation to beat down teams in the playoffs.
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Hard for me to believe a player will play better leaving Miami. 

 
Charlie Harper said:
They were #3 last year, but both LAL teams got waaaaay better and Utah as well. I love Dame, but it's more to do with the rest of the conference.
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Not sold on the LA teams.  Lebron and AD seem like they are always hurt.  George too.  Leonard seems to need a lot of rest.  I think Utah got better and it will be a close battle between the Nuggets, Blazers and Jazz for the top spot in the Northwest division.  Should be fun.

 
Keeping my eye on Nic Claxton. He's got a long ways to go but has some really intriguing potential - he's fast, fluid, is comfortable handling the ball, and has a decent looking jumpshot. Not many 7-footers can move like he can. Will be interesting to see what kind of a player he turns into after a couple years in the G league.

 
tjnc09 said:
That's because everyone else realizes they aren't very good
Click to expand...
If not very good is finishing as the 2 and 3 seed in the West the past 2 years then you are correct.   :rolleyes: . Last year the same folks were predicting they wouldn't make the playoffs.  Not sure why I am responding to a proven troll.

 
Don't Noonan said:
If not very good is finishing as the 2 and 3 seed in the West the past 2 years then you are correct.   :rolleyes: . Last year the same folks were predicting they wouldn't make the playoffs.  Not sure why I am responding to a proven troll.
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Every year they get embarrassed in their elimination series because they don't belong there.  

0-4

0-4

0-4

1-4

1-4

1-4

PortlandBlazersHomers.com is probably a better site to post at if you seriously think they have a shot to complete for a ring.  

 
tjnc09 said:
Every year they get embarrassed in their elimination series because they don't belong there.  
Click to expand...
This is a peculiar premise for an argument.

I think they're going to be inclined to go ultra-small, their frontcourt depth is in bad shape. Diallo and Mejri seem like good bargain bin guys at this point, where there isn't a whole lot left obviously. I also really like G-League hero and Large Man Alan Williams.

 
trader jake said:
 Whiteside has been a big disappointment the last few seasons in Miami, but he'll clear the boards and could be a good defensive center again in Portland's drop scheme.  When Nurk comes back they could have a nice rotation to beat down teams in the playoffs.
Click to expand...
Or they will have Whiteside’s expiring contract to trade for an upgrade at the deadline. Cowherd was going on yesterday about this being their plan (and a good one). 

 
Jayrod said:
Gr00vus said:
Maybe not such a bad break for Caruso then. I guess Bradley is in the mix with KCP and Daniels. Wondering if present day Kobe wouldn't be an upgrade over some of those guys.
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Ask @SWC, he is our resident expert on Mr. Kobe Bean Bryant.

ETA:  WTH kind of middle name is "Bean" anyway?
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really depends if you need help the sexual assault column or not take that to the bank brohans 

 
Minnesota Timberwolves

Timberwolves get: Russell Westbrook, Andre Roberson

Thunder get: Andrew Wiggins, Jeff Teague, Josh Okogie

NBA Free Agency and Trades

André Snellings: If the Timberwolves consider moving on from Wiggins, the four years and $122.2 million left on his contract make finding a logical home for him difficult. However, he fits very well as the main piece in a deal for Westbrook, who is owed almost $50 million more over that span. Wiggins also is still just 24 years old, and he averaged 23.6 points per game during the season that he turned 22. Wiggins isn't particularly efficient and doesn't bring much else outside of his scoring, but OKC could take a swing on him having upside left during this rebuild. Teague, like Gallinari, is a starting-caliber veteran on a large expiring contract who could have future trade value. And Okogie, a first-round pick from 2018, is coming off a promising rookie season, and he looks impressive thus far at summer league.

Meanwhile, Westbrook and Karl-Anthony Towns would form an elite one-two punch for the Wolves, catapulting them higher in a suddenly wide-open Western Conference where two All-NBA talents seems to be a prerequisite. Towns and Westbrook have very synergistic games, and each could be the other's ticket to the next level of team success. When healthy, Roberson is an elite defender, and he would pair with Robert Covington to give opposing wings fits.

I'm in.

 
tjnc09 said:
Every year they get embarrassed in their elimination series because they don't belong there.  

0-4

0-4

0-4

1-4

1-4

1-4

PortlandBlazersHomers.com is probably a better site to post at if you seriously think they have a shot to complete for a ring.  
Click to expand...
Boy you are obtuse.  I said they will finish top 4 in west standings once again.  Go ahead and quote me where I said they will compete for a ring.  

 
Don't Noonan said:
Boy you are obtuse.  I said they will finish top 4 in west standings once again.  Go ahead and quote me where I said they will compete for a ring.  
Click to expand...
7 teams were within 6 games last year. Ad puts la in that mix. Saying someone will finish 6th instead of top 4 isn’t disrespectful when minor injuries and schedule could account for a 2-3 game swing that greatly impacts the final position 

 
Frostillicus said:
Minnesota Timberwolves

Timberwolves get: Russell Westbrook, Andre Roberson

Thunder get: Andrew Wiggins, Jeff Teague, Josh Okogie

NBA Free Agency and Trades

André Snellings: If the Timberwolves consider moving on from Wiggins
Click to expand...
If?

Minnesota should jump on that trade if available.  Westbrook has a huge deal and is a below average outside shooter, but he plays with so much heart and would reinvigorate a handful of fan bases that could use the influx of energy (and hope).

Miami makes more sense for all parties, but now we wait.

 
BassNBrew said:
Saying someone will finish 6th instead of top 4 isn’t disrespectful when minor injuries and schedule could account for a 2-3 game swing that greatly impacts the final position 
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Agreed.  In fact it's come down to the final day of games in the Western Conference the past two seasons.  Houston losing to OKC in game 82 cost them the #2 seed last year.

 
trader jake said:
If?

Minnesota should jump on that trade if available.  Westbrook has a huge deal and is a below average outside shooter, but he plays with so much heart and would reinvigorate a handful of fan bases that could use the influx of energy (and hope).

Miami makes more sense for all parties, but now we wait.
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Multiple bidding partners is a good thing for OKC.  If they can drive the price of Westbrook up, they could have a real nice future ahead.

 
Moe. said:
Is that even possible? I would assume they like Shai and want to keep him though. 
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Yeah, that doesn’t make much sense. I like Shai more as a prospect than Kuzma. And I’m apparently in the minority in thinking Adams and his contract aren’t a massive albatross. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Frostillicus said:
Minnesota Timberwolves

Timberwolves get: Russell Westbrook, Andre Roberson

Thunder get: Andrew Wiggins, Jeff Teague, Josh Okogie

NBA Free Agency and Trades

André Snellings: If the Timberwolves consider moving on from Wiggins, the four years and $122.2 million left on his contract make finding a logical home for him difficult. However, he fits very well as the main piece in a deal for Westbrook, who is owed almost $50 million more over that span. Wiggins also is still just 24 years old, and he averaged 23.6 points per game during the season that he turned 22. Wiggins isn't particularly efficient and doesn't bring much else outside of his scoring, but OKC could take a swing on him having upside left during this rebuild. Teague, like Gallinari, is a starting-caliber veteran on a large expiring contract who could have future trade value. And Okogie, a first-round pick from 2018, is coming off a promising rookie season, and he looks impressive thus far at summer league.

Meanwhile, Westbrook and Karl-Anthony Towns would form an elite one-two punch for the Wolves, catapulting them higher in a suddenly wide-open Western Conference where two All-NBA talents seems to be a prerequisite. Towns and Westbrook have very synergistic games, and each could be the other's ticket to the next level of team success. When healthy, Roberson is an elite defender, and he would pair with Robert Covington to give opposing wings fits.

I'm in.
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Dump Wiggins for Westbrook without giving up picks?  Absolutely!  Okogie looks good to me, but as a complimentary player, not a corner piece.

I'm not a huge fan of Westbrook's game in todays NBA, but this is a clear upgrade to, not contention, but relavence.

 
Don't Noonan said:
Not sold on the LA teams.  Lebron and AD seem like they are always hurt.  George too.  Leonard seems to need a lot of rest.  I think Utah got better and it will be a close battle between the Nuggets, Blazers and Jazz for the top spot in the Northwest division.  Should be fun.
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I see a scenario playing out in which the 3 best teams (the California teams) in the west come May aren't top 3 seeds. Clips probably have enough supporting talent to stay near the top, but given how LeBron teams usually trend I think it's possible they're mediocre through the All Star break. Maybe it'll be different this year since he's been off since March though.

 
Clippers may not strive to be the #1, but I'd be shocked if they fall out of the top 3.  Lakers will likely want a top 4 seed and do just enough to get that.  I could see where a Utah or Denver gets hot and secures the #1 overall.

No matter what, that conference is going to be a bloodbath and at least 2 good teams will be left out.

 
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