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2019-20 NBA Thread: multiple players turn down Team USA offer in order to focus on Big 3 season

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1 hour ago, Frostillicus said:

I was worrying a bit about if the Wolves got Westbrook and had to ship out RoCo how bad the spacing would be with their center being their best shooter.  Then @hagmania reminded me they have Layman now.  No worries.

I just can’t imagine they trade him within the division 

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8 hours ago, MAC_32 said:

The Lakers may want a top 4 seed, but it's going to require a different pre-All Star break LeBron and unlike his past super teams this one will need to come together quickly. If it's like prior versions then it'll be a bumpy ride until February.  Given the strength of the west if that happens then I don't think they're cracking the top 4 and they end up trying to position themselves to avoid the Clippers round 1.

I don't think it's likely the Clippers fall short of a top 3 seed. Given the strength of the west I think it's possible though. Home court will be a greater priority for other teams whereas the Clippers will probably be more focused on doing what they need to do to be peaking late April.

Yeah, the evidence is mounting that limiting players' minutes and games is worth more than seeding. At least more than we used to think and maybe much more. I'm sure the optimal strategy would vary from team to team based on their particular circumstances, but I'd bet pushing hard for a high seed would make little sense for most teams, especially when you factor in the higher risk of injury that playing more minutes/games and playing tired in the playoffs entails.

That's one of the reasons I've been so bearish on the Lakers as I doubt they'll have that luxury. Add in the intense media pressure to win from day one, along with a coach looking over his shoulder at Jason Kidd and some mercurial personalities and no cohesive culture to keep them in check...there's so many ways this thing could go off the rails.

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22 minutes ago, Moe. said:

I just can’t imagine they trade him within the division 

I honestly have no idea who is in what division in basketball. I know conferences but not divisions. I’m not sure of my point but i’m probably the fourth dumbest person in this topic after @Capella, @Good Posting Judge, @GOB, and someone who shall remain unnamed. 

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It's the NW division with Portland, Denver, Utah, OKC, Minnesota. Made a little bit more sense when OKC was in Seattle. I'm pretty sure the twolves are towards the top of the league every year in terms of time spent traveling because their division-mates are so far away. The NBA is in desperate need of re-alignment. OKC has so many teams that are relatively close - none in the same division. 

 

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24 minutes ago, Frostillicus said:

I honestly have no idea who is in what division in basketball. I know conferences but not divisions. I’m not sure of my point but i’m probably the fourth dumbest person in this topic after @Capella, @Good Posting Judge, @GOB, and someone who shall remain unnamed. 

Was just thinking the same thing. I had to think of who was in the Sixers division this year. Forgot Brooklyn was in there. With the new seeding rules, divisions are just an easy way to make a schedule for the league. They mean nothing.

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2 hours ago, Frostillicus said:

I honestly have no idea who is in what division in basketball. I know conferences but not divisions. I’m not sure of my point but i’m probably the fourth dumbest person in this topic after @Capella, @Good Posting Judge, @GOB, and someone who shall remain unnamed. 

I hope you are trapped on an island with Dwight Howard.

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7 hours ago, Frostillicus said:
8 hours ago, Moe. said:

I just can’t imagine they trade him within the division 

I honestly have no idea who is in what division in basketball. I know conferences but not divisions. I’m not sure of my point but i’m probably the fourth dumbest person in this topic after @Capella, @Good Posting Judge, @GOB, and someone who shall remain unnamed. 

brohan everyone knows im that dumb guy its ok if you want to just say it ive made my peace with it take that to the bank bromigo

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8 hours ago, Moe. said:

I like some aspects of it, but other stuff doesn't make a lot of sense.  For example he seems to think this is a selling point:

Quote

But the real benefit from reorganizing the league into five regions is in reforming overall scheduling. In theory, each team could complete their 30 out-of-region road games in five six-game road trips. A Western team would only need to fly to the East 2-3 times per regular season. The Eastern teams would only fly to the West Coast once or twice (depending on the regional rotation). For the other 11 road games within a team's region, travel would be reduced by the geographic tightness of the new regions.

But that's already true. The Eastern teams generally only fly to the West Coast twice.  Here's the Wizards' schedule last year; one West Coast road trip and one Mountain time zone trip with a single game in LA.

And he saves this for the end and then kinda hand-waves it:

Quote

There's really no getting around the time zone television issues in a cross-country matchup that would leave East Coasters staying up until 1 a.m. or have Westerners needing to get home for a 4 or 5 p.m. tip. But with weekend games and creative scheduling (8:30 p.m. East tips, anyone?) it wouldn't be a ratings disaster. Especially once you're getting compelling match-ups with the honest-to-Mozgov 16 best teams in the league in there. Plus, the NBA already has these time zone issues during the regular season. Fans find a way to watch their team!

But that's a huge deal!  West coast fans would be miserable about 4 PM playoff starts, East coast fans would be even more miserable about 10:30 PM playoff starts, and you can't simply schedule around it by finding a middle ground in the early rounds because there's too many games to play. And he's dead wrong about fans finding a way to watch early/late games during the regular season. Any east coast sports fan with a 9-5 gig who follows a team throughout the regular season will tell you that they HATE when the team goes west. I watch or listen to probably 65 Wizards games and 140 Nats games a year- the ones I miss are mostly the West Coast ones or day games. Not to mention the fact that the idea should be to grow the game by making it more accessible, not test the limits of people like me who are already committed.

And the problem is really along the margins anyway. Ziller saysit would be worth it to inconvenience everyone come playoff time because we'd get far superior matchups. But not one team in the 16 team playoff field would have changed last season if we got rid of conferences.  And even in the seasons where there are huge imbalance between the conferences, does anyone really think casual fans are going to get super-excited to see a 60 win team sweep a 44 win team instead of a 39 win team? 

These proposals generally come from two kinds of people- fans of marginal west coast teams who justifiably feel screwed over, and media people who don't really understand how normal fans with 9-5 jobs consume their sports.

Edited by TobiasFunke
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18 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

I like some aspects of it, but other stuff doesn't make a lot of sense.  For example he seems to think this is a selling point:

But that's already true. The Eastern teams generally only fly to the West Coast twice.  Here's the Wizards' schedule last year; one West Coast road trip and one Mountain time zone trip with a single game in LA.

And he saves this for the end and then kinda hand-waves it:

But that's a huge deal!  West coast fans would be miserable about 4 PM playoff starts, East coast fans would be even more miserable about 10:30 PM playoff starts, and you can't simply schedule around it by finding a middle ground in the early rounds because there's too many games to play. And he's dead wrong about fans finding a way to watch early/late games during the regular season. Any east coast sports fan with a 9-5 gig who follows a team throughout the regular season will tell you that they HATE when the team goes west. I watch or listen to probably 65 Wizards games and 140 Nats games a year- the ones I miss are mostly the West Coast ones or day games. Not to mention the fact that the idea should be to grow the game by making it more accessible, not test the limits of people like me who are already committed.

And the problem is really along the margins anyway. Ziller saysit would be worth it to inconvenience everyone come playoff time because we'd get far superior matchups. But not one team in the 16 team playoff field would have changed last season if we got rid of conferences.  And even in the seasons where there are huge imbalance between the conferences, does anyone really think casual fans are going to get super-excited to see a 60 win team sweep a 44 win team instead of a 39 win team? 

These proposals generally come from two kinds of people- fans of marginal west coast teams who justifiably feel screwed over, and media people who don't really understand how normal fans with 9-5 jobs consume their sports.

This could theoretically be combined with a reduced game schedule, though, which would mitigate some of those issues.

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10 hours ago, Moe. said:

I just can’t imagine they trade him within the division 

If they are going to trade him wouldn't they plan on being bad for a while anyway?

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Woj claiming that part of the reason that the Wolves didn't match Jones is that they are pursuing max cap space for 2020, so can't see Russ in the cards for them.

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1 hour ago, TobiasFunke said:

I watch or listen to probably 65 Wizards games and 140 Nats games a year

this is incredible to me

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2 minutes ago, mr. furley said:

this is incredible to me

It was disturbing to add it up in my head, too. Although a lot of times the games are just on in the TV/radio in the background while I play with my kids or whatever.

Point is, if even a nutjob like me considers 10:30 PM starts too much you probably shouldn't just wave away the possible problem.

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1 hour ago, Long Ball Larry said:

Woj claiming that part of the reason that the Wolves didn't match Jones is that they are pursuing max cap space for 2020, so can't see Russ in the cards for them.

Gotta make room for Jaylen Brown, Otto Porter or DeMar DeRozan. Don't want to miss that opportunity.

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So, Kawhi is signing a 2+1.  I don't know if I missed that in all chaos, but I had thought the reporting was that he was signing a 4 year max.  That probably makes OKC's side even better in the trade.

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14 minutes ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

Whoa. Kawhi’s contract is a 2+1 for $103mm. So he can get his 10 year supermax and his years lineup with PG13 as well ....

I don't think he's eligible for a supermax unless there is something I'm missing.

Quote

First, only a player that has (or will have) completed eight years of NBA service by the end of his current contract is eligible to sign a supermax deal, which can only be offered by the team that drafted him or traded for his rookie contract. 

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/wizards/explained-what-nba-supermax-contract-and-how-does-it-work

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12 minutes ago, Juxtatarot said:

I don't think he's eligible for a supermax unless there is something I'm missing.

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/wizards/explained-what-nba-supermax-contract-and-how-does-it-work

Supermax deals and max deals for 10 year+ veterans are the same, 35% of the cap. The supermax just allows players that meet certain criteria to earn that contract sooner, before they have 10 years of experience. 

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Quote

 

Ricky Rubio said he's ready to step into a leadership role in Phoenix this upcoming season.

"I think he saw an opportunity to come here and be who he is, who he’s always been, a leader," said Phoenix GM James Jones. "My conversation with Ricky was direct ... It was, ‘We need you. We think you can thrive here. We think that you can make us better.’ That was a challenge he was willing to accept." Rubio struggled splitting the playmaking duties with Donovan Mitchell in Utah, but he'll be able to operate with the rock much more in Phoenix. He's still in his prime at 28 years old and could be in for a career year with the Suns.

 

:lmao: This writer (and Rubio) are in for a rude awakening if think he's going to be handling the ball any more alongside Booker/Saric/Ayton than he was Mitchell.

The worst traits to have as a non-elite player is being unable to play alongside elite players and being useless w/o the ball. Rubio signing was just so terrible. Many PGs that are better short term fit got a lot less money than Rubio got.

Edited by Craig_MiamiFL

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2 hours ago, Long Ball Larry said:

Woj claiming that part of the reason that the Wolves didn't match Jones is that they are pursuing max cap space for 2020, so can't see Russ in the cards for them.

That cap space will surely come in handy.  Lots of top tier FAs have been waiting patiently until the Wolves themselves figured out what a destination hotbed Minnesota is with all the elite NBA talent lining up to sign here.  :thumbup:

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4 minutes ago, SayWhat? said:

That cap space will surely come in handy.  Lots of top tier FAs have been waiting patiently until the Wolves themselves figured out what a destination hotbed Minnesota is with all the elite NBA talent lining up to sign here.  :thumbup:

Biyombo would be good for you guys.

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3 hours ago, Dr. Octopus said:

If they are going to trade him wouldn't they plan on being bad for a while anyway?

Yeah, I just don't wanna see him 5x/year or whatever. Ultimately you are right, they should take the best offer regardless of where it comes from. I have a feeling this whole saga is really going to drag, he wants to go to Miami, but getting him there is super complicated. 

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4 hours ago, TobiasFunke said:

I like some aspects of it, but other stuff doesn't make a lot of sense.  For example he seems to think this is a selling point:

But that's already true. The Eastern teams generally only fly to the West Coast twice.  Here's the Wizards' schedule last year; one West Coast road trip and one Mountain time zone trip with a single game in LA.

And he saves this for the end and then kinda hand-waves it:

But that's a huge deal!  West coast fans would be miserable about 4 PM playoff starts, East coast fans would be even more miserable about 10:30 PM playoff starts, and you can't simply schedule around it by finding a middle ground in the early rounds because there's too many games to play. And he's dead wrong about fans finding a way to watch early/late games during the regular season. Any east coast sports fan with a 9-5 gig who follows a team throughout the regular season will tell you that they HATE when the team goes west. I watch or listen to probably 65 Wizards games and 140 Nats games a year- the ones I miss are mostly the West Coast ones or day games. Not to mention the fact that the idea should be to grow the game by making it more accessible, not test the limits of people like me who are already committed.

And the problem is really along the margins anyway. Ziller saysit would be worth it to inconvenience everyone come playoff time because we'd get far superior matchups. But not one team in the 16 team playoff field would have changed last season if we got rid of conferences.  And even in the seasons where there are huge imbalance between the conferences, does anyone really think casual fans are going to get super-excited to see a 60 win team sweep a 44 win team instead of a 39 win team? 

These proposals generally come from two kinds of people- fans of marginal west coast teams who justifiably feel screwed over, and media people who don't really understand how normal fans with 9-5 jobs consume their sports.

I just think the map looks pretty

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43 minutes ago, SayWhat? said:

That cap space will surely come in handy.  Lots of top tier FAs have been waiting patiently until the Wolves themselves figured out what a destination hotbed Minnesota is with all the elite NBA talent lining up to sign here.  :thumbup:

Just think of all the contract dumps Minny will be able to take on with the lottery protected 1st rounders thrown in.

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So if I’m following this right, Dallas cleared max cap space and then basically used it all signing Delon Wright, Seth Curry, and then re-signing their own guys. Seems like an under the radar rough offseason for those guys. 

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Interesting point from Bobby Marks re: Kawhi contract decision:

Quote

 

The most he could earn with LAC in 2021 (if he does not opt-in) is 4/$196M

Because of early bird rights- Leonard is not eligible to sign a 5/$253M contract.

$221M (SAS) to $190M (TOR) to $141M (LAC) to now $103M (LAC)- has left $118M on the table.

 

 

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3 hours ago, thecatch said:

So if I’m following this right, Dallas cleared max cap space and then basically used it all signing Delon Wright, Seth Curry, and then re-signing their own guys. Seems like an under the radar rough offseason for those guys. 

Committing $20/yr the next 3 seasons on Dwight Powell and Maxi Kleber is just bizarro.

Itd still be weird but I'd understand if they had their deals end when Hardaway's deal comes off the books.

Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. If they simply did the above, they'd be looking at adding a high level FA after the 20-21 season (Hardaway off books and Doncic on rookie deal still).

Edited by Craig_MiamiFL

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Man two years only for Kawhi? That OKC trade could go south really quick for the Clips. They have two years to win a title. 

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11 minutes ago, Capella said:

Man two years only for Kawhi? That OKC trade could go south really quick for the Clips. They have two years to win a title. 

Yeah super risky.   And them being the clippers kind of makes me think its not going to work out well for them

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17 minutes ago, Capella said:

Man two years only for Kawhi? That OKC trade could go south really quick for the Clips. They have two years to win a title. 

He does love the warm weather (no shtick), that would give me some comfort if I'm a Clips fan.

The one thing that wouldn't give me comfort if I were a Clips fan,  is my racist-### owner and the fact that I'm going to Hell.

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26 minutes ago, need2know said:

Yeah super risky.   And them being the clippers kind of makes me think its not going to work out well for them

They're the Clippers. Any risk that puts them in the category of legitimate title contender, even for one season, is worth it to that franchise.

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3 minutes ago, Moe. said:

Ballmer is racist?

Let him go, he is on a roll.

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48 minutes ago, Capella said:

Man two years only for Kawhi? That OKC trade could go south really quick for the Clips. They have two years to win a title. 

i sincerely believe its only to line up the 10yr thing - as has been pointed out, he's cost himself a lot of dough doing his own thing the last yr or so - but league volatility does make it so that Kawhi himself can't even count on things going as expected two yrs from now

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2 hours ago, wikkidpissah said:

i sincerely believe its only to line up the 10yr thing - as has been pointed out, he's cost himself a lot of dough doing his own thing the last yr or so - but league volatility does make it so that Kawhi himself can't even count on things going as expected two yrs from now

Yeah, I don't think Kawhi has any intentions of leaving SoCal. 

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Can we get a title change?   Its bad enough that Boogie is getting paid like a 5th of what he would've made if he would've accepted the pelicans offer.   Do we really need to kick a man when he's down?

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Just now, NutterButter said:

Can we get a title change?   Its bad enough that Boogie is getting paid like a 5th of what he would've made if he would've accepted the pelicans offer.   Do we really need to kick a man when he's down?

Summer break. 

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Stunning Oubre only got that from the Suns. Victory for them in an otherwise dreadful offseason. Guy was a huge difference maker for them on both ends when they decided to start him (20 PPG, 6RPG, 2 SPG, 1BPG, 47% from field, ) in his final 12 games. Team was .500 in that span (a victory for them considering they won all of 19 all year). That was the only positive from signing Ariza last offseason :lol: 

Too bad they massively overspent on Rubio when better fits at PG got far less.

Edited by Craig_MiamiFL

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8 hours ago, modogg said:

Step 1:  Trade for guy who consistently shut him down

Step 2:  Stop him from eating McDonald's every day

Step 3:  Championship

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