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2019-20 NBA Thread: multiple players turn down Team USA offer in order to focus on Big 3 season

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11 hours ago, ShamrockPride said:

Danny Green: Kawhi wanted own route, never wanted to sign with Lakers

In other words: Kawhi didn't want the media fondling LeBron while Kawhi carried

Kawhi never would have carried them anyway. 

It’s far more likely that he wanted nothing to do with the circus that the Lakers have become, one that Magic always takes to the next level by always yapping to the media. Magic isn’t technically part of the organization anymore, but he still represents them in a big way. 

Edited by Ghost Rider
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3 minutes ago, SHIZNITTTT said:

Spoiled?  what do you mean?  

I think he means you had one losing season when you got a new franchise followed by seven years of winning, many of which put the team in legitimate contention for the title. 

That's not how it works most of the time.  Generally when you get a new or sold+moved franchise in this or any sport you're looking at many years of rebuilding before you even crack .500. It took the Raptors 20 years to post a 50 win season.  It took the Hornets 7 years and they still haven't reached the conference finals 30 years later.  Riley and the Heat needed 9 years to build a contender.  The Grizzlies needed a decade to make it out of the first round of the playoffs after the move from Vancouver and they still haven't reached the Finals.  That's what NBA reality is for most fans.

That said, I think most NBA fans would still happily swap franchises with Oklahoma City.  They are going to have a relatively quick rebuild and are probably gonna be a terrifying force  when it's done. If you had to put up odds for the 2026 NBA title you figure they'd be one of the favorites, I think.

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9 hours ago, Craig_MiamiFL said:

Amazing. Probably their best hope of ever creating a "super team"

Though we're talking about the same franchise that took Durant/Westbrook/Harden in back-to-back-to-back years and somehow never won a title. I don't watch much TV, have they done a 30-for-30 on this yet??? Everytime I see Kendrick Perkins or a tweet of his, it's all I think about :lol: 

can't wait to see Presti find the next James Harden in the draft and then trade him away as soon as possible.

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5 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

I think he means you had one losing season when you got a new franchise followed by seven years of winning, many of which put the team in legitimate contention for the title. 

That's not how it works most of the time.  Generally when you get a new or sold+moved franchise in this or any sport you're looking at many years of rebuilding before you even crack .500. It took the Raptors 20 years to post a 50 win season.  It took the Hornets 7 years and they still haven't reached the conference finals 30 years later.  Riley and the Heat needed 9 years to build a contender.  The Grizzlies needed a decade to make it out of the first round of the playoffs after the move from Vancouver and they still haven't reached the Finals.  That's what NBA reality is for most fans.

That said, I think most NBA fans would still happily swap franchises with Oklahoma City.  They are going to have a relatively quick rebuild and are probably gonna be a terrifying force  when it's done. If you had to put up odds for the 2026 NBA title you figure they'd be one of the favorites, I think.

I am just hoping that OKC doesn't become a farm team in the future for other franchises.   OKC has a great fan base. 

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Just now, SHIZNITTTT said:

I am just hoping that OKC doesn't become a farm team in the future for other franchises.   OKC has a great fan base. 

I think it's kind of tough to evaluate the fan base when they've yet to experience the trials that the rest of us have endured.  But as for the farm team thing, I can't imagine that happening any more than it happens to the other NBA franchises in less desirable/populous destinations. They are locked and loaded for the long term. I'd give my left ### to swap the personnel, front office and assets of the Thunder and the Wizards.

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5 hours ago, Deamon said:

just came to say the identical thing.  Pacers may be better but the experience and star talent on the other teams give them a better shot to win the whole thing.  Would be blown away if Indiana were nba champs next year.

on same hand, I can see Indiana stretch most series to 7 games. Luckily Sixers match up well with them, but they are definitely the overlooked team

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7 minutes ago, SHIZNITTTT said:

I am just hoping that OKC doesn't become a farm team in the future for other franchises.   OKC has a great fan base. 

Presti is doing a wonderful job. I don't see any way they use all those 1st round picks themselves, but man they can get almost anybody with the amount of unprotected firsts they have. they don't have to make that jump immediately, but their assets at this point are superior to pretty much everyone. Pelicans are in conversation, but a few of the young guys they have are due for their extensions this year or next

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8 minutes ago, modogg said:

Presti is doing a wonderful job. I don't see any way they use all those 1st round picks themselves, but man they can get almost anybody with the amount of unprotected firsts they have. they don't have to make that jump immediately, but their assets at this point are superior to pretty much everyone. Pelicans are in conversation, but a few of the young guys they have are due for their extensions this year or next

Problem with a lot of those firsts as it stands today are that they are going to be late round picks. You are better off with 2nd round picks at that point so you avoid guaranteed money. 

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16 minutes ago, ffldrew said:

Problem with a lot of those firsts as it stands today are that they are going to be late round picks. You are better off with 2nd round picks at that point so you avoid guaranteed money. 

I think they're banking on the Clippers and Rockets to fall apart by the time the picks come due. 

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41 minutes ago, Insein said:

I think they're banking on the Clippers and Rockets to fall apart by the time the picks come due. 

and Heat.  I do think there is some point at which the future is too hard to even reasonably assign a value to and 2026 is definitely on that line, but when you consider how many picks they own from different teams (including themselves and also Denver 2020), their asset portfolio (:nerd:) is really diversified.  I mean, all of these picks are really valuable a few years from now once Harden, Morey, Kawhi, George, Jerry West, Butler, Paul, and Pat Riley are all dead and gone and Tilman Fertitta and Steve Ballmer are somewhere trying to open a high-tech casino...

2021 MIA (HOU 5-30 swap right)

2023 Own (LAC swap right)

2023 MIA (15-30)

2024 Own 2024

LAC 2024

HOU (5-30)

2026 LAC

2026 HOU (5-30)

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13 minutes ago, Long Ball Larry said:

and Heat.  I do think there is some point at which the future is too hard to even reasonably assign a value to and 2026 is definitely on that line, but when you consider how many picks they own from different teams (including themselves and also Denver 2020), their asset portfolio (:nerd:) is really diversified.  I mean, all of these picks are really valuable a few years from now once Harden, Morey, Kawhi, George, Jerry West, Butler, Paul, and Pat Riley are all dead and gone and Tilman Fertitta and Steve Ballmer are somewhere trying to open a high-tech casino...

2021 MIA (HOU 5-30 swap right)

2023 Own (LAC swap right)

2023 MIA (15-30)

2024 Own 2024

LAC 2024

HOU (5-30)

2026 LAC

2026 HOU (5-30)

It's also not about making the pick every time. They can use these to get whoever is the stud player of the time who may not like their current team. Obviously best case is draft 2-3 studs and build around them.

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6 hours ago, Deamon said:

most exciting offseason in sports history?

It has been crazy.  10 years when we look back at this off season it seems likely the biggest move will have been the Blazers somehow letting Jake Layman go the the T Wolves.

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9 hours ago, Good Posting Judge said:

Westbrook's terrible with the ball! Iso, running PNR, terrible! Their offense works because Harden's an elite iso and pnr player, with guys who are excellent at spotting up (incl Paul), and a good roll man in Capella.

Maybe Morey's operating at a higher frequency than I am, but I can't see how this makes basketball sense.

 

 

Maybe?

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On 7/7/2019 at 1:46 PM, wikkidpissah said:

If Russ was paired w the Beard, the NBA would have to create a new stat - steals from teammate.

.

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5 minutes ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

Tobias Harris saying Simmons drained two 3s on him while playing one-on-one in recent workout and that his jumper looks good and confident. 

I was at a bar once and told a gal that my buddy was a good guy.  Wing man's job.

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3 hours ago, TobiasFunke said:

I think he means you had one losing season when you got a new franchise followed by seven years of winning, many of which put the team in legitimate contention for the title. 

That's not how it works most of the time.  Generally when you get a new or sold+moved franchise in this or any sport you're looking at many years of rebuilding before you even crack .500. It took the Raptors 20 years to post a 50 win season.  It took the Hornets 7 years and they still haven't reached the conference finals 30 years later.  Riley and the Heat needed 9 years to build a contender.  The Grizzlies needed a decade to make it out of the first round of the playoffs after the move from Vancouver and they still haven't reached the Finals.  That's what NBA reality is for most fans.

That said, I think most NBA fans would still happily swap franchises with Oklahoma City.  They are going to have a relatively quick rebuild and are probably gonna be a terrifying force  when it's done. If you had to put up odds for the 2026 NBA title you figure they'd be one of the favorites, I think.

I don’t think that’s the case at all,  most of their good picks don’t come due until 2022 on and then you’d need time for the players to develop. I mean I like what they did given the circumstances, but they might not have any real developed All-Stars for a good long time.

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11 minutes ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

Tobias Harris saying Simmons drained two 3s on him while playing one-on-one in recent workout and that his jumper looks good and confident. 

Yea I like Tobi but there is a difference between one on one and in an NBA game. If Ben starts taking shots, that's the first step. If he starts making shots, that's step 2. Step 4, profit... For us. He's already gonna get paid.

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15 minutes ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

Tobias Harris saying Simmons drained two 3s on him while playing one-on-one in recent workout and that his jumper looks good and confident. 

he failed to mention the 28 he missed

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20 minutes ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

Tobias Harris saying Simmons drained two 3s on him while playing one-on-one in recent workout and that his jumper looks good and confident. 

he sinks them a lot pre game. It is the inability to even attempt during live 5-on-5 which is worrisome. he can shoot them though. It does seem that this year he will be trying some, that's what I am looking forward to the most with the first 3-4 games of the season if he makes any attempts.

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An interesting thing to me is how the NBA is dominating sports talk right now. I realize NFL camps haven't opened yet, but usually NFL starts taking over the news cycle mid July. And MLB - they're in midseason and I hardly hear any baseball talk, pretty sad.

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12 minutes ago, Sammy3469 said:

I don’t think that’s the case at all,  most of their good picks don’t come due until 2022 on and then you’d need time for the players to develop. I mean I like what they did given the circumstances, but they might not have any real developed All-Stars for a good long time.

No, but they have the ammo to go trade for whoever they want. Adams is still early in his prime. If SGA is as good as people think he is, they can go reload with a couple more stars real quick (maybe Beal and someone after the Wizards start 5-25). 

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13 minutes ago, Sammy3469 said:

I don’t think that’s the case at all,  most of their good picks don’t come due until 2022 on and then you’d need time for the players to develop. I mean I like what they did given the circumstances, but they might not have any real developed All-Stars for a good long time.

Yeah, maybe 20207 or 2028.  Although the flip side is that they're gonna start sucking and getting high lottery picks pretty much immediately, and if they hit on one or two of them all those draft assets and cap space can be transformed into established players to pair with the draft hits.

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i'm torn between loving CP3 on Elba and not wanting OKCers (who already have to pay a toll to go to Tulsa) to suffer.

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It's also interesting that the Knicks never got in the mix for Westbrook. Seems like a thing they'd have done in the recent past. Maybe they're actually figuring things out?

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1 hour ago, Frostillicus said:

Maybe?

He signed Chris Paul to a gigantic max contract, maybe he's not that smart either. :shrug:

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6 minutes ago, Gr00vus said:

It's also interesting that the Knicks never got in the mix for Westbrook. Seems like a thing they'd have done in the recent past. Maybe they're actually figuring things out?

That would have interfered with Scott Perry’s general strategy of signing mediocre veterans to big money, short term deals.

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20 minutes ago, thecatch said:

No, but they have the ammo to go trade for whoever they want. Adams is still early in his prime. If SGA is as good as people think he is, they can go reload with a couple more stars real quick (maybe Beal and someone after the Wizards start 5-25). 

I think the whole trade for whoever they want is overblown.  For non-top 20 NBA guys sure, but the top guys continue to force their way out of places like OKC not to OKC.  It’s going to be their weird guy that stays out of the major markets.  

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8 minutes ago, thecatch said:

That would have interfered with Scott Perry’s general strategy of signing mediocre veterans to big money, short term deals.

Waiting for 2021 free agency isn't the worst of strategies if you're obviously not a contender right now. Of course what they do when it arrives is another story.

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31 minutes ago, Gr00vus said:

An interesting thing to me is how the NBA is dominating sports talk right now. I realize NFL camps haven't opened yet, but usually NFL starts taking over the news cycle mid July. And MLB - they're in midseason and I hardly hear any baseball talk, pretty sad.

It would be a lot sadder if you did hear baseball talk. 

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2 minutes ago, Capella said:

It would be a lot sadder if you did hear baseball talk. 

I'm :whoosh: - can you elaborate?

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36 minutes ago, Gr00vus said:

It's also interesting that the Knicks never got in the mix for Westbrook. Seems like a thing they'd have done in the recent past. Maybe they're actually figuring things out?

Dont think they're allowed to move their myriad FAs for contract-matching purposes til December, so couldnt have offered til then

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2 minutes ago, wikkidpissah said:

Dont think they're allowed to move their myriad FAs for contract-matching purposes til December, so couldnt have offered til then

Are they full up? For some reason I thought they had a ton of space still, but I haven't been following their moves very closely once they got jilted for the Nets by Durant and Irving. I know they signed Randle, but lost track after that. I suppose I'm giving them undue credit then for showing temperance in the Westbrook sweepstakes.

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23 minutes ago, Sammy3469 said:

I think the whole trade for whoever they want is overblown.  For non-top 20 NBA guys sure, but the top guys continue to force their way out of places like OKC not to OKC.  It’s going to be their weird guy that stays out of the major markets.  

Sure, but if they hit on an all-NBA guy with a lottery pick in the next 2-3 years they can surround him with everything he needs to succeed.

Consider the guys who turned into elite players while still on their rookie deals lately.  When those teams had the assets and FO skill to surround them with a supporting cast (Milwaukee, Denver and Utah are the obvious examples) they've become contenders.  And OKC will be arguably better positioned than all of them if they do stumble across their own Giannis or Jokic or Gobert/Mitchell.

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14 minutes ago, Gr00vus said:

Are they full up? For some reason I thought they had a ton of space still, but I haven't been following their moves very closely once they got jilted for the Nets by Durant and Irving. I know they signed Randle, but lost track after that. I suppose I'm giving them undue credit then for showing temperance in the Westbrook sweepstakes.

hell yeah.  they used basically all of their space on the jackpot of:

Reggie Bullock

Bobby Portis

Julius Randle

Marcus Morris

Elfrid Payton (I think?)

and some other crap.

Although at least most of them are only 1 year guaranteed (Randle with 2 years guaranteed)

edit: Taj Gibson and Wayne Ellington being the rest

Edited by Long Ball Larry
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1 hour ago, Gr00vus said:

I'm :whoosh: - can you elaborate?

@Capella hates baseball because he needs action all the time and can't appreciate a slower game which is why he only watches Michael Bay movies and monster truck rallies.

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14 minutes ago, Frostillicus said:

@Capella hates baseball because he needs action all the time and can't appreciate a slower game which is why he only watches Michael Bay movies and monster truck rallies.

It’s not just the eternal, soul-sucking, mind-numbing, white bread ### boringness of it — although that is certainly a factor. It’s the 10000 games that go on forever and are almost completely meaningless. 

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Lot of teams tripping over themselves to finish 2nd behind Orlando.

You hate to see it.

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31 minutes ago, Capella said:

Baseball sucks 

I kind of agree with you. In particular I think they've gone totally the wrong direction in allowing home runs to become the entirety of the game. They should go the other way, embrace low scoring, with each run being a big deal (like soccer does), which would also result in shorter, more tense games where most things matter, maybe a bit more activity on the base paths. I became a fan of the Herzog Cardinals because they played an exciting kind of baseball to watch as opposed to the Earl Weaver sit around and wait for home run style - which is basically all we have now.  Ricky Henderson on the base baths was must see t.v. Baseball really doesn't have that anymore. Baseball as it stands now is unwatchable.

Edited by Gr00vus
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49 minutes ago, Capella said:

It’s not just the eternal, soul-sucking, mind-numbing, white bread ### boringness of it — although that is certainly a factor. It’s the 10000 games that go on forever and are almost completely meaningless. 

In the most iconic song about baseball (so iconic that it is sung at nearly every professional game), it's worth noting that peanuts and crackerjack get top billing.

Edited by bigbottom
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23 minutes ago, modogg said:

who has more 3's this year, Simmons or Fultz...……..

That is a tough call.  In two years, Simmons is 0/17 and Fultz is 4/15.  My money would be on Fultz, but there is no guarantee that he even plays a game.  Simmons is due to throw in a desperation 3 at some point.

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38 minutes ago, modogg said:

who has more 3's this year, Simmons or Fultz...……..

I’d say Fultz. Combined o/u on 3s for them both at 3.5. Which way ya going? 

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14 minutes ago, Capella said:

I’d say Fultz. Combined o/u on 3s for them both at 3.5. Which way ya going? 

I like to live dangerously....going over

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