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2019-20 NBA Thread: new forum, same great taste

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17 minutes ago, Long Ball Larry said:

Did I just hear that Beal signed an extension?

:thumbup:

I've lived here pretty much all my life and even I can't really understand his thought process on this one. But I'm happy. He's a great guy, easy to root for, and having him around will make the next two seasons of Wiz basketball at least slightly more palatable ... although it may cost the Wiz a few proverbial ping pong balls.

Hopefully he'll swing by Nats Park next week and pitch Anthony Rendon on the merits of staying in the area.

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14 minutes ago, thecatch said:

Question for the crowd here: what would you pay Buddy Hield as a free agent?

unless he takes another step (and that's something i find him entirely capable of) i couldnt pay Buddy anywhere near what he wants. just as franchises bore the burden, in the last couple years, of those Deng/Mozgov contracts from the year the cap exploded, soon teams will be suffering the $20mil players they payed $35mil to keep as badly as the 40%-to-John-Wall ones

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22 minutes ago, thecatch said:

Question for the crowd here: what would you pay Buddy Hield as a free agent?

He's worth $15-$25MM/year depending on team needs, cap space, etc.

Edited by Jayrod
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2 hours ago, Long Ball Larry said:

Did I just hear that Beal signed an extension?

i'd really like to see the Wiz try to send Wall out to OKC for Paul now that that's settled. Maybe JW will lose the ol' baggage & see the wisdom in caring about others if a boonies team builds around him and Wash has some nice young players in Bryant, Troy Brown & Hachimura, maybe Wags as stretch4, to give yield to Paul/Beal as a backcourt duo

Edited by wikkidpissah

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17 minutes ago, Premier said:

Hield will get 110 from somebody. Weak free agency class. 

I feel equally comfortable making the pro and con arguments on the merits of signing him for that money, but I'm skeptical he'll get that level of interest as a restricted free agent.  Many of the teams traditionally aggressive in RFA don't have cap space last year, and Hield's age makes signing him kind of a win-now move that younger rebuilding teams (e.g., the Hawks) may not want to make.

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On a side note, Carsen Edwards went bananas in a pre-season game hitting 7/8 threes in under 6 minutes of play during the 3rd quarter against the Cavs.

I think he'll be a Lou Williams type of player...dude can fill it up in a hurry.  Can't wait for the season to start.

Go C's!!!

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51 minutes ago, thecatch said:

I feel equally comfortable making the pro and con arguments on the merits of signing him for that money, but I'm skeptical he'll get that level of interest as a restricted free agent.  Many of the teams traditionally aggressive in RFA don't have cap space last year, and Hield's age makes signing him kind of a win-now move that younger rebuilding teams (e.g., the Hawks) may not want to make.

Pels could sign him back...

Atlanta seems like they would be interested, though if they want Huerter to start, I'm not sure how to make that work defensively.

Grizzlies could make sense.  Their frontline defense should be strong and Hield is good enough as a 2 guard to cover up Ja, I think.

Even though both of them are re-building, I'm not sure how long those re-builds necessarily have to be with the pieces that they already have in place, especially ATL.  Hield is not so old that he wouldn't still be a very viable player in 2 years anyway.

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19 minutes ago, Long Ball Larry said:

Pels could sign him back...

Atlanta seems like they would be interested, though if they want Huerter to start, I'm not sure how to make that work defensively.

Grizzlies could make sense.  Their frontline defense should be strong and Hield is good enough as a 2 guard to cover up Ja, I think.

Even though both of them are re-building, I'm not sure how long those re-builds necessarily have to be with the pieces that they already have in place, especially ATL.  Hield is not so old that he wouldn't still be a very viable player in 2 years anyway.

I'm not sure how ATL feels about Huerter, but he seems like he's at least a reasonable facsimile of Hield while being much younger and cheaper.  

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1 hour ago, Jayrod said:

On a side note, Carsen Edwards went bananas in a pre-season game hitting 7/8 threes in under 6 minutes of play during the 3rd quarter against the Cavs.

I think he'll be a Lou Williams type of player...dude can fill it up in a hurry.  Can't wait for the season to start.

Go C's!!!

Bothers me that he's played the 2 every time he's been in. Hiding him on D is gonna be tough unless he's the point. May even be shorter than IT4

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Nate Duncan starting a new podcast with John hollinger.  Sounds pretty fly.  Great to have him and Seth partnow back in the public sphere.  The duncd on with bill bishop of sinocism was also super interesting discussing the more more macro issues with china.

still can’t fully wrap my head around the Beal extension.  Seems like a such an unusual situation all around.  Mitigates some risk for him, but also gets him most of what he could have gotten and still puts him in line for a 10 year max.  But now he is kind of stuck on a crap team, though maybe it makes him a more attractive trade piece next offseason and the wiz said something to that effect.  I guess it gives the wiz a chance to keep him forever but still some optionality.  Still just a very odd convergence of circumstances.

and no way is Carsen Edwards shorter than IT.  

Edited by Long Ball Larry
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I’ll tell you what, it’s bad enough rooting for a team saddled with a max Andrew Wiggins.  But it’s even worse that he feels disrespected being left off ESPN’s list of its top 100 players.  You cant be any more oblivious than to make the following comment, "Even when I averaged almost 24 points and got the max deal, people were still saying stuff," he added. "Look at max players and some max players don't average as much, but it is what it is.“

You know what you a sshat? Tons of NBA players could average 24ppg if they were putting up 19 shots per game.  In addition to being elite at inefficiently scoring, you suck at rebounding, can’t create for others, give zero ####s on defense, and make free throws at a clip equivalent to a backup center.  But other than that, you’re pretty ####### awesome!  This guy.  :wall:

 

Edited by SayWhat?
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26 minutes ago, Long Ball Larry said:

and no way is Carsen Edwards shorter than IT.  

maybe i've seen him next to Tacko too often lately. but, if he's 5'9,. he's just barely so

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Luol Deng signs a one-day contract with the Bulls, and retires. Fifteen years in the league. He ranks in the Top-Ten stats as a Bull in: games/minutes played/points/rebounds/three-pointers/blocks/steals.

Urban legend has Kobe vetoing a trade to Chicago when he discovered that Deng was the centerpiece heading to Los Angeles. 

He was a good man off the court. A philanthropist in word and deed, and money. 

The latter half of his career would not have arced downward so severely if Tom Thibodeau had not ground him into sawdust. Good shtick to play the guy forty minutes the same day he had a spinal tap.  

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14 hours ago, SayWhat? said:

I’ll tell you what, it’s bad enough rooting for a team saddled with a max Andrew Wiggins.  But it’s even worse that he feels disrespected being left off ESPN’s list of its top 100 players.  You cant be any more oblivious than to make the following comment, "Even when I averaged almost 24 points and got the max deal, people were still saying stuff," he added. "Look at max players and some max players don't average as much, but it is what it is.“

You know what you a sshat? Tons of NBA players could average 24ppg if they were putting up 19 shots per game.  In addition to being elite at inefficiently scoring, you suck at rebounding, can’t create for others, give zero ####s on defense, and make free throws at a clip equivalent to a backup center.  But other than that, you’re pretty ####### awesome!  This guy.  :wall:

 

Between his play on the court and his contract the guy is a complete drain on this team. I'd say closer to the 200 mark than top 100. 

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4 hours ago, Encyclopedia Brown said:

Luol Deng signs a one-day contract with the Bulls, and retires. Fifteen years in the league. He ranks in the Top-Ten stats as a Bull in: games/minutes played/points/rebounds/three-pointers/blocks/steals.

Urban legend has Kobe vetoing a trade to Chicago when he discovered that Deng was the centerpiece heading to Los Angeles. 

He was a good man off the court. A philanthropist in word and deed, and money. 

The latter half of his career would not have arced downward so severely if Tom Thibodeau had not ground him into sawdust. Good shtick to play the guy forty minutes the same day he had a spinal tap.  

I remember reading this article about Deng earlier this year:  The NBA’s Unlikely Real Estate Mogul: Inside Luol Deng’s Towering $125 Million Portfolio

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20 hours ago, wikkidpissah said:

Bothers me that he's played the 2 every time he's been in. Hiding him on D is gonna be tough unless he's the point. May even be shorter than IT4

He'll be a liability on defense for sure, but when his offensive usage is generating like 1.5 ppp, it doesn't matter how bad he is on defense.  Seeing him blow up with the second unit this year is going to be awesome and he'll be paired with Smart a lot.

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10 minutes ago, Jayrod said:

He'll be a liability on defense for sure, but when his offensive usage is generating like 1.5 ppp, it doesn't matter how bad he is on defense.  Seeing him blow up with the second unit this year is going to be awesome and he'll be paired with Smart a lot.

sparkplug is great, but he damn well better learn to dish

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21 hours ago, wikkidpissah said:

Bothers me that he's played the 2 every time he's been in. Hiding him on D is gonna be tough unless he's the point. May even be shorter than IT4

was a pre-season game with the Cavs too. i have seen C's fans go bonkers over Fall and Carson, thinking they are on their way to the championship this year.

the killer with trying to hide him on D is the C's can't. Who will cover for him? the lost post defense should be atrocious, so it isn't like you can have a big man come and help out. I believe Stephens has been pushing defense with this team for years, but i don't see a smooth path to it. you have a bunch of good lunchpail guys like Williams, etc., but the talent isn't there

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Bummed that Zion is going to miss the first few weeks of his NBA career with a knee injury.  This does not bode well.

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On 10/17/2019 at 10:24 AM, thecatch said:

Question for the crowd here: what would you pay Buddy Hield as a free agent?

Much more than Harrison Barnes.  The Kings make a lot of head-scratching moves but trading for Barnes and paying him a big money deal is right up there.

Hield is an elite shooter and his defense is underrated.  He's a great guard to stretch the court for Fox's drives and Bagley inside.  He'll get over 100 mil.

Edited by trader jake

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19 hours ago, SayWhat? said:

I’ll tell you what, it’s bad enough rooting for a team saddled with a max Andrew Wiggins.  But it’s even worse that he feels disrespected being left off ESPN’s list of its top 100 players.  You cant be any more oblivious than to make the following comment, "Even when I averaged almost 24 points and got the max deal, people were still saying stuff," he added. "Look at max players and some max players don't average as much, but it is what it is.“

You know what you a sshat? Tons of NBA players could average 24ppg if they were putting up 19 shots per game.  In addition to being elite at inefficiently scoring, you suck at rebounding, can’t create for others, give zero ####s on defense, and make free throws at a clip equivalent to a backup center.  But other than that, you’re pretty ####### awesome!  This guy.  :wall:

 

I would say that anything that lights a fire under him, but this doesn’t sound like that. Sounds like he might even go more the other way...

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2 hours ago, trader jake said:

Bummed that Zion is going to miss the first few weeks of his NBA career with a knee injury.  This does not bode well.

It sucks.  He needs to lose weight.  It sure seems like his body is not going to handle the rigors of the sport at 280+ lbs.  

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5 hours ago, trader jake said:

Much more than Harrison Barnes.  The Kings make a lot of head-scratching moves but trading for Barnes and paying him a big money deal is right up there.

I’m pretty “meh” on Barnes. Relatively young players who can competently defend big wings and hit the 3 are valuable. They gave up no assets in the trade and a little over $20 million per year on a declining deal was an overpay but not an absurd one. Unfortunately the team has made about 5,000 transactions in the last 15 years that are way worse than that one. If Buddy were 4 inches taller and played some defense like Barnes, he’d be a no brainer max player. 

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1 hour ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

Thybulle is really good. 

Was gonna start the threads Thybulle fanclub yesterday but got distracted by a Mahomes injury.

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This whole thing kinda "woke" me up.  I was a big fan of Pops, Steve Kerr, Lebron.  But now I realize it is easy to be an so called activist, and for the cause when it never has any impact on you or your livelihood. It is easy to tell others what they should do.   James lives the high life.  Pops and Kerr both live in gated communities away from us commoners and riff-raff.

If Pops, Kerr, LeBron and whoever just said "hey we make a f-ton of money from China  and it helps league revenue and adds to our salaries I would actually respect them. 

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3 hours ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

Thybulle is really good. 

was going to say anybody in a fantasy basketball league should definitely use a late round pick and grab him. Love how the Sixers have let him be him and adjusted to his skill set on d. excited to see how it plays out and his career trajectory

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Siakam gets a 4 year max.  Between that and the lowry extension, toronto clearly not interested in this year’s fa class.  WOuld guess they extend van vleet (if they can?).

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29 minutes ago, Long Ball Larry said:

Siakam gets a 4 year max.  Between that and the lowry extension, toronto clearly not interested in this year’s fa class.  WOuld guess they extend van vleet (if they can?).

makes sense. i don't know if they got another "Kawhi" in them, and it will create good will. and agree about Van Fleet though he can likely make good money as a free agent

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On 10/18/2019 at 11:18 PM, Long Ball Larry said:

Almost ready with my over unders.  I know everyone’s been waiting for them.  Mainly can’t figure out the ###### timberwolves

On this message board I've read something about Jake Layman.  Apparently he's the cheat code in Minnesota.  Bet accordingly.

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14 hours ago, Long Ball Larry said:

Siakam gets a 4 year max.  

whywhywhywhy?!?! great story, fine player but, so far, a one-year wonder who you can match as an RFA next offseason. even tho i'm on the side that doesn't guess he'll regress to the mean when taking over the team-leader mantle from a superstar, that possibility is reasonably close to a coinflip. if you can save a few mil a year off the max by extending him now, extend away. there is simply no sense nor upside to maxing a young player w any question marks going into year 4. if Siakam backs up MIP w further improvement, you max him as a Christmas present, or just wait. no loss. now, every $20mil youngster you groom is gonna say "why not me?!" going into the last year of his rookie contract. and that's how teams end up not being able to next-level or rebuild later on. Raptors just learned that doing every damned thing your superstar wants won't keep him when the time comes, so......

Edited by wikkidpissah
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On 10/18/2019 at 4:22 PM, coyote5 said:

It sucks.  He needs to lose weight.  It sure seems like his body is not going to handle the rigors of the sport at 280+ lbs.  

He's in the wrong city for that.

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3 hours ago, wikkidpissah said:

whywhywhywhy?!?! great story, fine player but, so far, a one-year wonder who you can match as an RFA next offseason. even tho i'm on the side that doesn't guess he'll regress to the mean when taking over the team-leader mantle from a superstar, that possibility is reasonably close to a coinflip. if you can save a few mil a year off the max by extending him now, extend away. there is simply no sense nor upside to maxing a young player w any question marks going into year 4. if Siakam backs up MIP w further improvement, you max him as a Christmas present, or just wait. no loss. now, every $20mil youngster you groom is gonna say "why not me?!" going into the last year of his rookie contract. and that's how teams end up not being able to next-level or rebuild later on. Raptors just learned that doing every damned thing your superstar wants won't keep him when the time comes, so......

I agree that there is a risk and I'm not sure it is the right move when considering they just cost themselves $22 million in cap space.  On the pro side, I would say:

1) if he does improve, you risk dealing with a 3+1 situation or being forced to give him the 5 years.  Getting the flat 4 does mitigate a bit of risk for the Raps.

2) want to have a guaranteed floor in place to lure FAs in 2021, like Giannis in particular.

3) their books are very clean, so they will have plenty of cash anyway, so it's not really going to hamstring them.  just make sure to keep our Chinese overlords happy.

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17 hours ago, Long Ball Larry said:

Siakam gets a 4 year max.  Between that and the lowry extension, toronto clearly not interested in this year’s fa class.  WOuld guess they extend van vleet (if they can?).

van vleet apparently not extension eligible according to article on the Athletic.

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O/U

Latest lines I can find are here: https://www.actionnetwork.com/nba/nba-win-totals-betting-odds-2019-2020

 

Bucks / 57.5 / Under - Probably just don't need to push it to get the number 1 seed.

Sixers / 54.5 / Under - Takes a while to get everything to fit, plus some load management

Rockets / 53.5 / Over - Continuity plus Westbrook soaking up minutes should let them get over this number.

Jazz / 53.5 / Under - Could certainly go / Over - , but they are a bit of an older team and still may take a little time to work it all out.

Nuggets / 52.5 / Over - Youth and continued progression of Jokic and Murray push them over this number.

Clippers / 53.5 / Under - Load management, injuries and all the new pieces says to me that they will be just under. Certainly doesn't mean they won't be title contenders.

Lakers / 50.5 / Over - Lebron and AD healthy carry this team and the starting lineup is actually not terrible

Celtics / 48.5 / Under - This could easily go over , but defense is a big concern and not sure I trust them to get to 49.

Warriors / 47.5 / Under - Curry and Green could definitely get them over, but lack of depth means that any kind of injury would certainly keep them under.

Pacers / 46.5 / Under - VO uncertainty plus taking a bit of a step back for the future.

Raptors / 46.5 / Over - Still have a good amount of talent and Nurse is really good and signing Lowry suggests to me that they won't be looking to trade mid-season.

Blazers / 45.5 / Over - Just always seem to get it done in the regular season and don't see Dame and CJ falling off.

Spurs / 46.5 / Under - I don't think that they can quite work enough Pop magic to make 47 more likely than not.

Heat / 43.5 / Over - I don't feel great about this but I tend to believe they will push hard and might make a trade to get a little better.

Magic / 41.5 / Under - Brought back the same sorry band and don't see many players getting better and DJ Augustin could easily regress and then they're totally screwed

Mavericks / 40.5 / Over - Originally had this as an Under, but now the number has dropped and I think they can do this with Carlisle and another year of development from Doncic, plus Kristaps of course.

Nets / 43.5 / Over - Atkinson can easily get these guys to over - perform in the regular season and kyrie will be an upgrade over Russell

Kings / 37.5 / Over - Made several sneaky good vet signings and have a lot of depth

Pelicans / 39.5 / Under - Can't see how they get all these young guys to play up this soon

Pistons / 37.5 / Over - Same core as last year plus got some decent vets in Snell, Rose and Morris, plus Bruce Brown may be a real contributor.

Timberwolves / 35.5 / Over - Outside of KAT, I don't particularly like this group, but this number is too low when you have a top 10 player and Saunders should loosen up the offense.

Hawks / 33.5 / Under - They will be atrocious on defense and can't see Young being quite good enough yet to lift them up.

Bulls / 32.5 / Over - Young core is not bad plus also very nice vet additions in Sato and Thad Young.

Thunder / 31.5 / Over - Team still has enough talent to compete and I'm not so sure they move Paul, though the possibility of a few different trades does make this risky.

Suns / 28.5 / Under - Could go over, as they actually made a few decent moves to improve shooting and overall talent, but 30 wins seems like too much of a jump to bet on right now.

Grizzlies / 27.5 / Under - Rookie PG plus major rebuilding over - all tells me that they stay under - this.

Knicks / 26.5 / Under - This team is a silly oldschool hodgepodge with no point guard

Wizards / 26.5 / Under - Even with Beal, they could be the worst team in the league.

Cavaliers / 24.5 / Under - Have a hard time seeing Beilein in his first year getting this group to do anything and they may be the worst defense in the league.

Hornets / 23.5 / Over - Very poor roster, but I think they have enough vets and cromulent players and coaches that they can go over this.

Best Bets

Bulls over

Grizzlies Under

Knicks Under

Blazers Over

Kings Over

Edited by Long Ball Larry
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Magic might win 42 before they play their 43rd game. Get a new slant

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39 minutes ago, Long Ball Larry said:

O/U

Latest lines I can find are here: https://www.actionnetwork.com/nba/nba-win-totals-betting-odds-2019-2020

  Reveal hidden contents

Bucks / 57.5 / Under - Probably just don't need to push it to get the number 1 seed.

Sixers / 54.5 / Under - Takes a while to get everything to fit, plus some load management

Rockets / 53.5 / Over - Continuity plus Westbrook soaking up minutes should let them get over this number.

Jazz / 53.5 / Under - Could certainly go / Over - , but they are a bit of an older team and still may take a little time to work it all out.

Nuggets / 52.5 / Over - Youth and continued progression of Jokic and Murray push them over this number.

Clippers / 53.5 / Under - Load management, injuries and all the new pieces says to me that they will be just under. Certainly doesn't mean they won't be title contenders.

Lakers / 50.5 / Over - Lebron and AD healthy carry this team and the starting lineup is actually not terrible

Celtics / 48.5 / Under - This could easily go over , but defense is a big concern and not sure I trust them to get to 49.

Warriors / 47.5 / Under - Curry and Green could definitely get them over, but lack of depth means that any kind of injury would certainly keep them under.

Pacers / 46.5 / Under - VO uncertainty plus taking a bit of a step back for the future.

Raptors / 46.5 / Over - Still have a good amount of talent and Nurse is really good and signing Lowry suggests to me that they won't be looking to trade mid-season.

Blazers / 45.5 / Over - Just always seem to get it done in the regular season and don't see Dame and CJ falling off.

Spurs / 46.5 / Under - I don't think that they can quite work enough Pop magic to make 47 more likely than not.

Heat / 43.5 / Over - I don't feel great about this but I tend to believe they will push hard and might make a trade to get a little better.

Magic / 41.5 / Under - Brought back the same sorry band and don't see many players getting better and DJ Augustin could easily regress and then they're totally screwed

Mavericks / 40.5 / Over - Originally had this as an Under, but now the number has dropped and I think they can do this with Carlisle and another year of development from Doncic, plus Kristaps of course.

Nets / 43.5 / Over - Atkinson can easily get these guys to over - perform in the regular season and kyrie will be an upgrade over Russell

Kings / 37.5 / Over - Made several sneaky good vet signings and have a lot of depth

Pelicans / 39.5 / Under - Can't see how they get all these young guys to play up this soon

Pistons / 37.5 / Over - Same core as last year plus got some decent vets in Snell, Rose and Morris, plus Bruce Brown may be a real contributor.

Timberwolves / 35.5 / Over - Outside of KAT, I don't particularly like this group, but this number is too low when you have a top 10 player and Saunders should loosen up the offense.

Hawks / 33.5 / Under - They will be atrocious on defense and can't see Young being quite good enough yet to lift them up.

Bulls / 32.5 / Over - Young core is not bad plus also very nice vet additions in Sato and Thad Young.

Thunder / 31.5 / Over - Team still has enough talent to compete and I'm not so sure they move Paul, though the possibility of a few different trades does make this risky.

Suns / 28.5 / Under - Could go over, as they actually made a few decent moves to improve shooting and overall talent, but 30 wins seems like too much of a jump to bet on right now.

Grizzlies / 27.5 / Under - Rookie PG plus major rebuilding over - all tells me that they stay under - this.

Knicks / 26.5 / Under - This team is a silly oldschool hodgepodge with no point guard

Wizards / 26.5 / Under - Even with Beal, they could be the worst team in the league.

Cavaliers / 24.5 / Under - Have a hard time seeing Beilein in his first year getting this group to do anything and they may be the worst defense in the league.

Hornets / 23.5 / Over - Very poor roster, but I think they have enough vets and cromulent players and coaches that they can go over this.

Best Bets

Bulls over

Grizzlies Under

Knicks Under

Blazers Over

Kings Over

Just bet the opposite on all of these.  Thanks! :thumbup:

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28 minutes ago, GOB said:

Magic might win 42 before they play their 43rd game. Get a new slant

Chill with the racism tia.

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12 minutes ago, Long Ball Larry said:

😒

and I even made the Bulls a best bet!

In all seriousness, this is the most excited I’ve been for a Bulls’ season  since whatever year it was that they got Gasol and finally brought over Mirotic.  I could see them winning anywhere between 25 and 50 games.

Edited by Juxtatarot

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32 minutes ago, Capella said:

I think the magic roster is pretty good :oldunsure: 

What will be the Magic rotation to start the season?

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8 minutes ago, Juxtatarot said:

What will be the Magic rotation to start the season?

Sounds like similar to last year with potentially more Bamba and Fultz. And the guy they got from Portland being worked in. 

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