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TRUMP TO INFINITY AND BEYOND HQ - The Great and Positive Place (9 Viewers)

Megla said:
Generally speaking what you said is true but if the Anti Trump  people don't stop alienating those voters that aren't staunch party line followers with all the Racist/Bigot themes and allow the results to speak for themselves  it won't have near the effect it should. 
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If Trump wasn't such a Bigot/Racist, his supporters probably would not have to worry about that.

:shrug:

 
knowledge dropper said:
And the crew got Blutarsky banned.   What does that say about this place?
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It probably means Bluto should have stuck to posts like the one I linked. 

I think we’re a microcosm of what’s going on nationally. Antitrumpers increasingly desperate for Trump supporters to show some cognizance of whats going on. Trump supporters increasingly defensive, both lashing out. One remarkable thing I’ve seen is Trump shadow accounts getting nicked for basically reposting Trump’s own tweets. It’s really not on Bluto, it starts with the man at top. The only way to stop it is to stop recycling Trump’s rhetorics. 

 
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Megla said:
Generally speaking what you said is true but if the Anti Trump  people don't stop alienating those voters that aren't staunch party line followers with all the Racist/Bigot themes and allow the results to speak for themselves  it won't have near the effect it should. 
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There's not enough people who are into "spite voting" for this to matter.

He won by like 80k votes across 3 states. That isn't happening again if the economy is tailing off, the wall isn't built, etc.

 
[scooter] said:
From a long-term political standpoint, Trump would have been better off riding Obama's wave through 2017, and then waited until 2018 to implement the tax cut. But he blew the tax cut like a lotto winner, then watched his majority disappear in 2018, and now he doesn't have enough money in the bank to make his monthly payments.
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There's something to be said there.

He passed it with control of Congress though. Was super easy for him to do.

Nothing he has ever done in his career seems long term. 

 
The General said:
If the economy even has the slightest hint at cooling off he's done. It's his only feather in his cap I can think of and the only reason people can tolerate him.
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Yeah, his chances in 2020 rest mainly on the economy. He hasn't accomplished much else in his first term and I don't see anything else major happening. The fact that he is pressuring the Fed to drop rates shows he doesn't have much else left, besides the tariffs, to move things forward. I don't see China budging. 

 
Megla said:
Time will tell
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Yup. If he's banking on angry poor white gut voting for him and the economy slows he's cooked.

I agree the Dems are capable of screwing up anything. If a moderate gets the nom it's over.

Wish it weren't Biden quite honestly but he'll do I guess.

 
jamny said:
Yeah, his chances in 2020 rest mainly on the economy. He hasn't accomplished much else in his first term and I don't see anything else major happening. The fact that he is pressuring the Fed to drop rates shows he doesn't have much else left, besides the tariffs, to move things forward. I don't see China budging. 
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Agreed. It seems like he has fired all his shots.

I've never gotten his appeal so no clue why people like him so I am not a good judge in this area and was very wrong in 2016. Perhaps he can stir up enough votes to do it again. 

If Warren were to get the nom I think it's his best shot. 

 
Megla said:
Generally speaking what you said is true but if the Anti Trump  people don't stop alienating those voters that aren't staunch party line followers with all the Racist/Bigot themes and allow the results to speak for themselves  it won't have near the effect it should. 
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The point, maybe a valid or decent one, arguably, was that people like you describe were prioritizing their own success, or comfort, or their family's well being, over arguments about competence, about character, about national security, about foreign policy and ethics. That's been the argument about people supposedly 'in the middle' since the beginning.

But hypothetically if the economy starts doing poorly, then that set of values will be moved down a rung to below whether the voter feels they are being insulted as being the most important thing at stake?

 
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Oh no, Frank Figliuzzi is back on MSNBC! You guys may remember him from last week-

“And I'll give you an example of that. We have to understand the adversary and the threat we’re dealing with. And if we don't understand how they think, we’ll never understand how to counter them. So, it’s little things and language and messaging that matters. The President said that we will fly our flags at half-mast until August 8th. That's 8/8. 

Now, I'm not going to imply that he did this deliberately but I am using it as an example of the ignorance of the adversary that’s being demonstrated by the White House. The numbers “88” are very significant in neo-Nazi and white supremacy movement. Why? Because the letter “H” is the eighth letter of the alphabet and, to them, the numbers “88” together stand for “Heil Hitler.” So, we’re going to be raising the flag back up at dusk on 8/8. No one is thinking about this. No one is giving him the advice or he's rejecting the advice. So understand your adversary to counter the adversary.
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https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/08/07/msnbc_contributor_frank_figliuzzi_discovers_hidden_nazi_message_in_white_house_statement.html

And now he’s back comparing Trump supporters to a terrorist group on MSNBC-

Figliuzzi continued, "He demands that loyalty, and they are loyal. So if you call Trump followers racist en masse, they simply coalesce around each other and become even more defensive and protective of the leader, just as they would in, say, a terrorist organization to compare to the radicalization." 

Figliuzzi made headlines earlier this month, when he accused President Trump of sending a message, either intentional or not, to white nationalists in regards to him ordering the flags to fly at half-staff to honor those who were killed in mass shootings in Dayton, Ohio, and El Paso, Texas. Figliuzzi's basis for the claim was the fact that Trump ordered the flags to be raised on Aug. 8, also 8/8, which means "Heil Hitler" to white supremacists because "H" is the eighth letter of the alphabet.
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https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/msnbc-analyst-compares-trump-supporters-to-a-terrorist-organization

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
The point, maybe a valid or decent one, arguably, was that people like you describe were prioritizing their own success, or comfort, or their family's well being, over arguments about competence, about character, about national security, about foreign policy and ethics. That's been the argument about people supposedly 'in the middle' since the beginning.

But hypothetically if the economy starts doing poorly, then that set of values will be moved down a rung to below whether the voter feels they are being insulted as being the most important thing at stake?
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What most fail to see is that arguments about competence, about character, about national security, about foreign policy and ethics don't exists, it's one side telling those in the middle that those things are in fact racist/bigoted and what ever else adjective you want to use.  Just using this site as a sample, on multiple occasions I've stated my opinion on something Trump related here only to be called racist or bigoted, it gets old, but I can only speak for those that are like minded like myself.  I try to keep an open mind and see things from both POVs but when you keep getting hit in the head with outlandish slurs you just get numb to it and shut it down. 

 
Racism is a dealbreaker with we lefties and Donald Trump is a racist. A racist is unfit to be president in 2019 and we don't understand why that's not a dealbreaker for Trump supporters.

 
roadkill1292 said:
Racism is a dealbreaker with we lefties and Donald Trump is a racist. A racist is unfit to be president in 2019 and we don't understand why that's not a dealbreaker for Trump supporters.
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It's pretty simple. They don't think Trump is racist.

Basically, anyone who says "I'm not racist" is, by definition, not racist.

 
Megla said:
Countdown to "That's a lie"

T minus 10-9-8
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It should be telling to you that a person who knows I won’t l read his posts (unless quoted) and I wont ever respond to him...is complaining that I wont answer his questions.

I admot...I don't answer questions of people I have on ignore.  Im crazy like that.

 
jamny said:
What? Are you telling me the longest bull run in history will eventually end?!!??
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dkp993 said:
This all sounds so familiar, circa 2016. Market was doing well and many said when Trump got elected it would crash. It didn’t and the pro-T crowd loves to continue to point this out.  Now? Well, funny how it works when it’s “your guy”.  So transparent.

Timing is everything.  When the inevitable recession comes, if Trumps in office-  “its inevitable, the market always swings and we’re at the end of the longest bull in history”.  If it comes when he leaves -“ see I told you!”  Timing is everything.
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Well that didn’t take long....

 
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roadkill1292 said:
Why did you say "force" before? If you simply mis-spoke, I'll let the matter drop. But I've seen that phrase before from Trump supporters and I'm curious as to why they think in terms of "opinions being forced upon them." 
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repetition is why, as I said earlier, telling someone their opinion is wrong over and over and over again why.  We don't agree, move on  

 
Megla said:
repetition is why, as I said earlier, telling someone their opinion is wrong over and over and over again why.  We don't agree, move on  
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I'll move on when I'm ready, thanks. Let me try to explain the way a Trump critic reads this statement -- it says to me that you really don't like defending him because he doesn't give you much to work with. Whereas we Trump critics have a never ending supply of fuel; there's a new tweet or bumbling speech almost every day. Specifically re: racism -- he's either calling for innocent black boys to be executed, Mexican immigrants "rapists,"  for congresswomen of color to go back where they came from, and on and on. By every accepted standard of our time, he's a racist and his supporters either don't want to acknowledge that or they don't care.

When Donald stops saying and doing racist stuff, we'll stop calling him a racist.

 
roadkill1292 said:
I'll move on when I'm ready, thanks. Let me try to explain the way a Trump critic reads this statement -- it says to me that you really don't like defending him because he doesn't give you much to work with. Whereas we Trump critics have a never ending supply of fuel; there's a new tweet or bumbling speech almost every day. Specifically re: racism -- he's either calling for innocent black boys to be executed, Mexican immigrants "rapists,"  for congresswomen of color to go back where they came from, and on and on. By every accepted standard of our time, he's a racist and his supporters either don't want to acknowledge that or they don't care.

When Donald stops saying and doing racist stuff, we'll stop calling him a racist.
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OK

 
jamny said:
That would be a good comeback if we were actually in a recession and I absolved Trump of all blame. As it is, it's a useless post.
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Jamny don’t get me wrong that was in no way an attempt to slam you, you seem like a very reasonable guy.  I really wasn’t attempting that and if it came across that way I apologize.

I was just pointing out the reality of what I said just a few days ago.  Right or wrong Trump will not get the blame for the coming recession by his supporters.  Your response I quoted, while probably in jest, is exactly what will get said by the majority of the pro-Trump crowd.   

 
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jamny said:
That would be a good comeback if we were actually in a recession and I absolved Trump of all blame. As it is, it's a useless post.
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They usually are, just endlessly complaining in here day after day. The market could be at 50,000 and they would still complain. 

 
roadkill1292 said:
I'll move on when I'm ready, thanks. Let me try to explain the way a Trump critic reads this statement -- it says to me that you really don't like defending him because he doesn't give you much to work with. Whereas we Trump critics have a never ending supply of fuel; there's a new tweet or bumbling speech almost every day. Specifically re: racism -- he's either calling for innocent black boys to be executed, Mexican immigrants "rapists,"  for congresswomen of color to go back where they came from, and on and on. By every accepted standard of our time, he's a racist and his supporters either don't want to acknowledge that or they don't care.

When Donald stops saying and doing racist stuff, we'll stop calling him a racist.
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Seems to me Trump's racism comes down to the same thing that all his other questionable behavior does:  his supporters don't have to participate in the questionable behavior or even outwardly support it if he carries that mantle for them. Nobody has to lie if they "believe" what he's doing is for the good of the party. That's why the evangelicals in particular have it so good. They can claim this is all part of god's plan and that his sins are forgiven and this is all for the greater good. I really can't imagine a better scenario for a man like Trump to thrive in - especially considering all the hollow progress we've made in this country with regards to race relations. We were so, so, so naive to think that a black president was the mark of a changed society. 

 
Megla said:
What most fail to see is that arguments about competence, about character, about national security, about foreign policy and ethics don't exists, it's one side telling those in the middle that those things are in fact racist/bigoted and what ever else adjective you want to use.  Just using this site as a sample, on multiple occasions I've stated my opinion on something Trump related here only to be called racist or bigoted, it gets old, but I can only speak for those that are like minded like myself.  I try to keep an open mind and see things from both POVs but when you keep getting hit in the head with outlandish slurs you just get numb to it and shut it down. 
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The only serious policy discussion I could possibly see this actually happening is immigration.

 
Widbil83 said:
Figliuzzi made headlines earlier this month, when he accused President Trump of sending a message,
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This isn’t correct. What Figliuzzi said was that he was likely ignoring good advice that supremacists believe that crazyass crap and they’d take the wrong message from a neutral, innocuous act like that.

 
knowledge dropper said:
This book, Ball of Collusion, may need to be on PSF required reading list. 

https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/08/ball-of-collusion-book-excerpt-hillary-clinton-ruins-the-plan/
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My god, McCarthy. I actually enjoy MCarthy’s posts on codal and procedural provisions, even though really since around 2016 they have been largely wrong. 

I doubt any Trumpers want to walk through this, but the most astounding thing to me is the use of the word ‘plan’. 

The first Foia for Hillary’s emails came in January 2013(!) and it was by a liberal public records group. Please tell me about the plotters that were out to free her at that point in time.

Right ***now*** there is a Congressional subpoena to the Trump White House for private emails used for public official business. Please tell me you believe Trump will comply with that subpoena the way Hillary should have. I’d love to hear it.

 
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SaintsInDome2006 said:
My god, McCarthy. I actually enjoy MCarthy’s posts on codal and procedural provisions, even though really since around 2016 they have been largely wrong. 

I doubt any Trumpers want to walk through this, but the most astounding thing to me is the use of the word ‘plan’. 

The first Foia for Hillary’s emails came in January 2013(!) and it was by a liberal public records group. Please tell me about the plotters that were out to free her at that point in time.

Right ***now*** there is a Congressional subpoena to the Trump White House for private emails used for public official business. Please tell me you believe Trump will comply with that subpoena the way Hillary should have. I’d love to hear it.
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Not sure they have to after the precedent set by previous administration.  

 
knowledge dropper said:
Not sure they have to after the precedent set by previous administration.  
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The civil law requires compliance, Comey said as much at his press conference. If you want to file this away with KA Conway’s Hatch Act violations, fine.

I take it this means you think Trump does not feel bound by a principle issue he ran on and won’t comply. I agree.

 
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HellToupee said:
They keep parroting the latest marching orders
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:goodposting:

It appears they have already moved on from “the President is a White supremacist” trial ballon because it was such a ridiculous statement. This Democrat Presidential field is like watching the movie Idiocracy in real time. 

 
Widbil83 said:
:goodposting:

It appears they have already moved on from “the President is a White supremacist” trial ballon because it was such a ridiculous statement. This Democrat Presidential field is like watching the movie Idiocracy in real time. 
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This makes me laugh.  While it may have some truth it's just amazing how much our current administration is like that now.

 
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