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TRUMP TO INFINITY AND BEYOND HQ - The Great and Positive Place (8 Viewers)

tonydead said:
1- pass

2- your link and claim is he didnt push for more?  Ok, we agree CDC kept going and didnt stop. Fake news. 

3- dont have time to look into FEMA, but army Corp isnt going to be able to act quick enough. They mostly outsource now days. 

4- you keep completely, conveniently, ignoring everything they reported was done and are doing today 

5- no orders are coming from the federal government unless it's to shut down the entire country, he gave the experts guidelines to not gather in 10 or less the guy in Florida screwed up spring break and the guy in California is taking it to the extreme. You keep failing to understand how the government works. 50 different situations and 50 decisions to be made. Multiple that over with counties and cities that are imposing their own measures, that's how it's supposed to work. 
Pass? C’mon man, read the article. If you’re going to argue about it, at least read the info posted by the person you’re arguing with. That post lays out his thoughts and supports them with links, and you answer with a bunch of baseless assumptions like “the army Corp can’t act quick enough, they outsource” without proof, don’t have time to look into the other point, ignore #1 completely.

The travel ban was the right call, but much more was needed at that time. It seemed drastic- but the rest of the rhetoric was aimed at protecting the stock market. 

 
tonydead said:
Ok, we agree CDC kept going and didnt stop.
Funny thing is throughout this presidency the Deep State acting independently of the president’s wishes has been called treacherous. - But they still need the President’s support for initiatives even if they are acting independently. I think it was two weeks ago roughly that the President guaranteed a million testing kits in a week and currently it’s around 60K? Can you imagine what the CDC must have been begging for in January or February? Even now - despite the President saying he was executing wartime powers to ramp up manufacturing he hasn’t done it. 

Each of your claims needs to be unpacked like this. Truly, God bless to you and yours, these internet battles seem so trivial now, but if we do them let’s focus on the truth.

And god bless the ACOE. When those guys show up they are hell on wheels. Where are they?

 
Funny thing is throughout this presidency the Deep State acting independently of the president’s wishes has been called treacherous. - But they still need the President’s support for initiatives even if they are acting independently. I think it was two weeks ago roughly that the President guaranteed a million testing kits in a week and currently it’s around 60K? Can you imagine what the CDC must have been begging for in January or February? Even now - despite the President saying he was executing wartime powers to ramp up manufacturing he hasn’t done it. 

Each of your claims needs to be unpacked like this. Truly, God bless to you and yours, these internet battles seem so trivial now, but if we do them let’s focus on the truth.

And god bless the ACOE. When those guys show up they are hell on wheels. Where are they?
Wrong. Its SOP and the CDC was working on it ever since we found out from China. The primary reason testing was delayed was because they bumbled the first round.   Take a deep breath, have a beer, go for a walk. Some of you guys need a break from this place. 

 
Wrong. Its SOP and the CDC was working on it ever since we found out from China. The primary reason testing was delayed was because they bumbled the first round.   Take a deep breath, have a beer, go for a walk. Some of you guys need a break from this place. 
I don’t think you’ve really contradicted me here, but it’s cool. Thanks for the comments, we’re all in this together.

 
timschochet said:
This statement by you represents the main difference between us (aside from your apparent refusal to criticize President Trump.) There are not 50 different situations here. The country needs to shut down right now. 
Trump and his experts dont agree it's time yet apparently. But they dont need Trump, ,you've got 48 governors to complain about and you havent mentione a one. 

 
The public does not agree with my analysis. 55% of Americans approve of the way Trump is handling the virus: 

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/20/poll-majority-of-americans-now-approve-of-trumps-coronavirus-management-138570
I think that is an outlier. It is not 55% of Americans, it is only 55% of 512 random people that were polled and the polling, of course, doesn’t say from what part of the country these people are from (which may or may not make a difference)

Let's see what the other polls are saying in the next week or two. 

 
Because I think it’s a federal issue. 
It's an America issue.  The federal government FDA and FEMA are running around supporting the state's governments.  Did you watch the televised conference call the federal government had with each state governor yesterday?  Your idea that the feds just jump in, push the state government aside and take over isn't reality.

 
Trump and his experts dont agree it's time yet apparently. But they dont need Trump, ,you've got 48 governors to complain about and you havent mentione a one. 
I’m not aiming at Tim here really just an observation, Democrats in this forum really don’t understand what the job of a Governor entails. I know most of it is “Orange man bad”, but the grasp on the basic functions of state governments are lost on this bunch.

 
I think that is an outlier. It is not 55% of Americans, it is only 55% of 512 random people that were polled and the polling, of course, doesn’t say from what part of the country these people are from (which may or may not make a difference)

Let's see what the other polls are saying in the next week or two. 
Breaking: poster from California who watches MSNBC disputes slightly positive poll about President Trump.

 
I'm just going to put this here as I'm tired of to trying to explain math in the regular virus thread:

People are speculating that hundreds of thousands of people are infected right now.  I tend to believe that is true, if not more, for many reasons.  But we only have 218 deaths.  Mathematically you cannot have a high infection rate and have a high mortality rate, there simply isn't enough deaths to support that.  One or the other has to give.  When this is all over there is a good chance this isn't as deadly as everyone keep pretending which might lead to a lot of second guessing on our reaction. 

 
timschochet said:
This statement by you represents the main difference between us (aside from your apparent refusal to criticize President Trump.) There are not 50 different situations here. The country needs to shut down right now. 
Tim this is not the solution. Period. Heck I am in one of the high risk groups and even think this would be disastrous. 

 
Kind of wish we had that wall now. It certainly would have slowed the stem coming in from the south. Once again Trump aka FDR aka Lincoln, was way way WAY ahead of the curve on this one. To say otherwise is wrong. 

 
I'm just going to put this here as I'm tired of to trying to explain math in the regular virus thread:

People are speculating that hundreds of thousands of people are infected right now.  I tend to believe that is true, if not more, for many reasons.  But we only have 218 deaths.  Mathematically you cannot have a high infection rate and have a high mortality rate, there simply isn't enough deaths to support that.  One or the other has to give.  When this is all over there is a good chance this isn't as deadly as everyone keep pretending which might lead to a lot of second guessing on our reaction. 
True, the death total is what really counts. More testing only means more positives, but not more deaths.

 
Which may be an outlier as it is only one poll. Let's see what the other polls say in the next two weeks. 
Sure we will see what happens in 2 weeks and if it works out for you we will go with those numbers. If they still don’t work out for you we will wait another 2 weeks.

 
If this isn’t the PSF completely encapsulated in 2 very short posts mins apart commenting on the same thing I don’t know what is.  
You think it was a good idea for Peter to try and say hydroxychloroquine is giving Americans a false hope?

And while I have you - Do you still think they are shutting the government down today after Trump said he doesn't think a nation wide lockdown will be necessary a few minutes ago?

 
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You think it was a good idea for Peter to try and say hydroxychloroquine is giving Americans a false hope?

And while I have you - Do you still think they are shutting the government down today after Trump said he doesn't think a nation wide lockdown will be necessary a few minutes ago?
Hold on, before you go on the attack, nowhere in my statement did I say which statement was right. My post was just about how extreme the views are right now, I made no commentary on which you is right. Relax GB. I didn’t even see the PC this morning as I have been on a work call.  

Secondly I made very clear in my statement that I was in no way saying it was sure what was happening. I was simply passing along what I heard from what I deem to be reliable sources. I continue to be as unsure of what’s happening in the next 5mins as the rest of us.  
 

*edit- I just saw your edit.  If the POTUS said that then that’s what I believe.  

 
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Hold on, before you go on the attack, nowhere in my statement did I say which statement was right. My post was just about how extreme the views are right now, I made no commentary on which you is right. Relax GB. I didn’t even see the PC this morning as I have been on a work call.  

Secondly I made very clear in my statement that I was in no way saying it was sure what was happening. I was simply passing along what I heard from what I deem to be reliable sources. I continue to be as unsure of what’s happening in the next 5mins as the rest of us.  
 

*edit- I just saw your edit.  If the POTUS said that then that’s what I believe.  
Attack?  I just asked a couple of questions GB.

Several people said the same thing you did yesterday about hearing from relatives, people in government that a nation wide shutdown was coming.  That's fascinating because it was 3 or more different people, just representative of FBGs.  I wanna know how that happens and where that is spreading from.

I want to know because (not directed at you) as I said above, it has to be true or it's purposely planned inciting panic.  Incidentally that's directly in line with the reporter taking issue with Trump giving people hope about an experimental drug. 

 
Attack?  I just asked a couple of questions GB.

Several people said the same thing you did yesterday about hearing from relatives, people in government that a nation wide shutdown was coming.  That's fascinating because it was 3 or more different people, just representative of FBGs.  I wanna know how that happens and where that is spreading from.

I want to know because (not directed at you) as I said above, it has to be true or it's purposely planned inciting panic.  Incidentally that's directly in line with the reporter taking issue with Trump giving people hope about an experimental drug. 
All I can do is speak for myself. And what I posted was 100% true from my perspective of what I heard with 2° of separation. But again as I posted when I posted it, I had no clue and wasn’t unequivocally saying it was going to happen. It was simply what I heard from what I believe to be reliable people.  I have absolutely no interest in inciting panic what. so. ever.  And as I Live in California I know and understand what the lockdown means, because I’m currently living it so could offer some incite.  

 
You think it was a good idea for Peter to try and say hydroxychloroquine is giving Americans a false hope?

And while I have you - Do you still think they are shutting the government down today after Trump said he doesn't think a nation wide lockdown will be necessary a few minutes ago?
He is asking for clarification on why Trump believes this drug will be so effective? It’s a fair question. 

 
He is asking for clarification on why Trump believes this drug will be so effective? It’s a fair question. 
Wrong.  The question Trump took issue with, that you should too, was "Is it possible that your impulse to put a positive spin on things (this drug) influences American's into a false sense of hope?" After Trump said repeatedly (4 or 5 times go back and watch it) "Maybe it will, maybe it won't". They can't get off the narrative that they so badly want Trump to downplay the virus.   

Trump's response "I'm not being overly optimistic or pessimistic, I sure as hell think we ought to give it a try.  There has been some interesting things happen, some very good things.  We have nothing to lose, you know the expression, what the hell do you have to lose?"

Then Peter not being able to let go of the narrative switches to, in his words "A follow up" to his horrible question, "What do you have to say to the millions of americans that are scared?!?!?!" Then the SMACKDOWN happens.

You can argue that the SMACKDOWN is bad form for what you want to see in a president. But, you can't argue the false narrative and horrible question that got us there.

 
Wrong.  The question Trump took issue with, that you should too, was "Is it possible that your impulse to put a positive spin on things (this drug) influences American's into a false sense of hope?" After Trump said repeatedly (4 or 5 times go back and watch it) "Maybe it will, maybe it won't". They can't get off the narrative that they so badly want Trump to downplay the virus.   

Trump's response "I'm not being overly optimistic or pessimistic, I sure as hell think we ought to give it a try.  There has been some interesting things happen, some very good things.  We have nothing to lose, you know the expression, what the hell do you have to lose?"

Then Peter not being able to let go of the narrative switches to, in his words "A follow up" to his horrible question, "What do you have to say to the millions of americans that are scared?!?!?!" Then the SMACKDOWN happens.

You can argue that the SMACKDOWN is bad form for what you want to see in a president. But, you can't argue the false narrative and horrible question that got us there.
But that's in total contradiction of the medical information.

 
Wrong.  The question Trump took issue with, that you should too, was "Is it possible that your impulse to put a positive spin on things (this drug) influences American's into a false sense of hope?" After Trump said repeatedly (4 or 5 times go back and watch it) "Maybe it will, maybe it won't". They can't get off the narrative that they so badly want Trump to downplay the virus.   

Trump's response "I'm not being overly optimistic or pessimistic, I sure as hell think we ought to give it a try.  There has been some interesting things happen, some very good things.  We have nothing to lose, you know the expression, what the hell do you have to lose?"

Then Peter not being able to let go of the narrative switches to, in his words "A follow up" to his horrible question, "What do you have to say to the millions of americans that are scared?!?!?!" Then the SMACKDOWN happens.

You can argue that the SMACKDOWN is bad form for what you want to see in a president. But, you can't argue the false narrative and horrible question that got us there.
Pence was asked the same question later and answered it as a normal leader should. Why are you celebrating this?  It is really puzzling. We don't need the president delivering a SMACKDOWN. 

For people who aren't following this every minute this may be the first time they are hearing about this drug and it is very dangerous to even hint that there is some cure when there isn't. The president wants to be hopeful that's great but he has zero clue on this other than his "feelings". Why do you think all the experts on this so measured in their language about this drug? 

 
Pence was asked the same question later and answered it as a normal leader should. Why are you celebrating this?  It is really puzzling. We don't need the president delivering a SMACKDOWN. 

For people who aren't following this every minute this may be the first time they are hearing about this drug and it is very dangerous to even hint that there is some cure when there isn't. The president wants to be hopeful that's great but he has zero clue on this other than his "feelings". Why do you think all the experts on this so measured in their language about this drug? 
 Nobody said there is a "cure".  Where are you getting that from?  I quoted the exchange for you since it appears you haven't watched it.

 
But that's in total contradiction of the medical information.
Which part?  They've order a bunch of the drug and are starting clinical trials.  Buy they I mean the experts and doctors on Trump's team and the FDA.  Where are you getting your medical information from?

 
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Pence was asked the same question later and answered it as a normal leader should. Why are you celebrating this?  It is really puzzling. We don't need the president delivering a SMACKDOWN. 

For people who aren't following this every minute this may be the first time they are hearing about this drug and it is very dangerous to even hint that there is some cure when there isn't. The president wants to be hopeful that's great but he has zero clue on this other than his "feelings". Why do you think all the experts on this so measured in their language about this drug? 
Trump cannot win. OMB. He’s suppose to be hopeful yet when he is he’s vilified when he isn’t he’s vilified. The media is driving the panic, even drudge. I surprised we arnt all dead yet. This is going to end up being a huge over reaction I’m starting to think. 

 
Pence was asked the same question later and answered it as a normal leader should. Why are you celebrating this?  It is really puzzling. We don't need the president delivering a SMACKDOWN. 

For people who aren't following this every minute this may be the first time they are hearing about this drug and it is very dangerous to even hint that there is some cure when there isn't. The president wants to be hopeful that's great but he has zero clue on this other than his "feelings". Why do you think all the experts on this so measured in their language about this drug? 
Pence acts like someone competent to be in that position. Trump never does,  you can see this is all way more than he bargained for when he first had the idea of running.

 
 Nobody said there is a "cure".  Where are you getting that from?  I quoted the exchange for you since it appears you haven't watched it.
I said hinting at a cure, or a remedy, or anything that is going to be available immediately. Is it like the tests that are supposed to be here, the masks that are supposed to be here?

The FDA and his experts always have to step back all his comments on this. That's fine he's not a doctor I get it.  

Him losing his mind for a moment isn't a SMACKDOWN it's him looking ignorant.

 
 This is going to end up being a huge over reaction I’m starting to think. 
I disagree with you about almost everything I can think of but man I hope you’re right here. 

And I hope Trump is right too. Just because I tend to believe he is making the wrong decisions doesn’t mean that I don’t hope he isn’t. I desperately hope that he is telling the truth and that it all works out the way he thinks it will. 

CNN is nothing but doom and gloom. The mayor of Los Angeles was just on; he predicted we (in California) will be frozen in place for at least 3 months. Then some doctor came on and said that he hopes it will only be 3 months; we’ll be extremely lucky if thats all it is. 

Thats pretty depressing; who wants to hear that? I’d much rather hear optimism- but only if it’s not fake. 

 
I disagree with you about almost everything I can think of but man I hope you’re right here. 

And I hope Trump is right too. Just because I tend to believe he is making the wrong decisions doesn’t mean that I don’t hope he isn’t. I desperately hope that he is telling the truth and that it all works out the way he thinks it will. 

CNN is nothing but doom and gloom. The mayor of Los Angeles was just on; he predicted we (in California) will be frozen in place for at least 3 months. Then some doctor came on and said that he hopes it will only be 3 months; we’ll be extremely lucky if thats all it is. 

Thats pretty depressing; who wants to hear that? I’d much rather hear optimism- but only if it’s not fake. 
If it’s three months anarchy will breakout.   Too bad you can’t protect yourself with firearms in CA. 

 
The reason I have an issue with Trump's statements at this time is that he promises that the solutions to problems will be immediately available - with no substance to back that up.  I am glad he wants to convey a sense of hope, that we are working on solutions and things will get better.  But if they are not going to get better NOW, then he shouldn't say they will.  Google website, millions of tests, vaccines super close, this new use for an older drug, etc.  All are great reasons for hope, but if you promise they will there tomorrow and they aren't, the positive message (and his credibility) are lost.  Sorry this isn't a great message in this thread, but I think it's ok to show some disappointment and hope that he can do better.  

 
Trump cannot win. OMB. He’s suppose to be hopeful yet when he is he’s vilified when he isn’t he’s vilified. The media is driving the panic, even drudge. I surprised we arnt all dead yet. This is going to end up being a huge over reaction I’m starting to think. 
That what many people thought in Italy and went on with life as normal without heeding the warnings, which is why things look so grim there right now.

The problem is, without adequate testing available, we have no idea how many people are really infected with this virus and where they are located. 

 

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