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Ilov80s

FBG Movie Club: December movies posted and last call to vote on Noirvember

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2 hours ago, Ilov80s said:

... Noirs sure love the word The.

Not necessarily true, for example:

Le cave se rebiffe

La caza

Le Boucher

Le clan des siciliens

La commare secca

Le deuxième souffle

Le Doulos

La Métamorphose des cloportes

La Piscine

Le Samouraï

Les Tontons flingueurs

La Cérémonie

La Haine

L.A. Confidential

El Patrullero

El Aura

... and that's just off the top of my head! (not true - at all)

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3 hours ago, wikkidpissah said:

ETA: And the "newnoir" film that NEVER gets mentioned is Body Heat and it puts most of the others to shame.

Body Heat was made 38 years ago which makes it closer chronologically-speaking to Double Indemnity than a newly released film noir.

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20 minutes ago, Eephus said:

Body Heat was made 38 years ago which makes it closer chronologically-speaking to Double Indemnity than a newly released film noir.

oy

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8 minutes ago, wikkidpissah said:
29 minutes ago, Eephus said:

Body Heat was made 38 years ago which makes it closer chronologically-speaking to Double Indemnity than a newly released film noir.

oy

Another great film noir from 1981 is Michael Mann's first feature Thief with James Caan. 

Among Mann's later films, I'd definitely classify Heat and Collateral as noirs.  If I was in an argumentative mood, I'd throw Miami Vice in there as well.

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20 hours ago, Ilov80s said:

I randomly found the definitive Kubrick tiers

1: Dr Strangelove, 2001

2: A Clockwork Orange, The Shining,  The Killing, Paths of Glory

3: Barry Lyndon, Full Metal Jacket, Lolita, Spartacus

4: Eyes Wide Shut 

Move Barry and Clockwork up a tier each. Move down Killing and Paths. I'm on the fence with FMJ, as there is a lot to like, I might need to rewatch it. The lesser Kubricks are all flawed enough that while they're good films they're not good Kubrick films. 

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20 hours ago, krista4 said:

I love The Limey; it's one I suggest often when people are looking forward something they might not have seen.

Sounds like I need to watch Logan Lucky.

I'm a fan of The Limey too. Stamp is terrific and it tells a very simple story well. I often find myself recalling that scene with Peter Fonda in the car talking about the 60's and how authentic it felt.

Logan Lucky is a trifle and instantly forgettable. I'd rather watch "Bubble" again to re-evaluate it than bother with LL.

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I apologize for not being more involved. I am a huge film lover, but this year, I ran for public office (I considered a thread "hey, I'm running for office", but really, it was so all-encompassing that I would not be able to keep it up.) I did not win (which relieves me somewhat), so I'll be able to participate more. Glad to see this thread still strong.  

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10 minutes ago, jwb said:

I apologize for not being more involved. I am a huge film lover, but this year, I ran for public office (I considered a thread "hey, I'm running for office", but really, it was so all-encompassing that I would not be able to keep it up.) I did not win (which relieves me somewhat), so I'll be able to participate more. Glad to see this thread still strong.  

All good, appreciate the effort in public office. Sorry that it didn't work out for you and as you said that may be a blessing in disguise. We are happy to have you back to the thread! 

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5 hours ago, Ilov80s said:

Nice update.

BTW: I just noticed the new pole. Voted.

Also, I now take back all of my previous comments about the authoritarian nature of our club - that was was before "awhile aho" became a voting option. 👍

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Tuesday update.

I had the opportunity to quote a neo-noir earlier today - Fight Club.

When it was released, it struck home with me. As an insomniac with less than stellar "main stream tendencies" that was big into martial arts at the time, I dug the counter cultural elements of it. I have not seen it in years, but I wonder if it will still be as appealing to me. The times and I have changed lots since then. I've never read the book either, though I flirted with buying it many times.

I think that I will re-watch it some time this month and see how well it holds up.

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20 minutes ago, Man of Constant Sorrow said:

Tuesday update.

I had the opportunity to quote a neo-noir earlier today - Fight Club.

When it was released, it struck home with me. As an insomniac with less than stellar "main stream tendencies" that was big into martial arts at the time, I dug the counter cultural elements of it. I have not seen it in years, but I wonder if it will still be as appealing to me. The times and I have changed lots since then. I've never read the book either, though I flirted with buying it many times.

I think that I will re-watch it some time this month and see how well it holds up.

 

I think I've stated before on here that Fight Club can now only be viewed as a product of its time, that 1999/2000 era. The main thesis statement of the film, as stated by the main character, is that the masculinity of the era has been short-circuited by society not having a major war or major depression in which men can prove themselves. Within a few years of the film's release, we got both. So I'm not sure if the issue it was addressing even exists anymore.

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5 minutes ago, Walking Boot said:

 

I think I've stated before on here that Fight Club can now only be viewed as a product of its time, that 1999/2000 era. The main thesis statement of the film, as stated by the main character, is that the masculinity of the era has been short-circuited by society not having a major war or major depression in which men can prove themselves. Within a few years of the film's release, we got both. So I'm not sure if the issue it was addressing even exists anymore.

Bingo.

Plus, the domestic terrorism aspect has me concerned as well. When it was a "revenge fantasy" type of thing, I can see the appeal. In an age where real terrorism is more prevalent in our thought process, I can't help but cringe at some of the "fantasies" I once indulged as a younger man.

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15 hours ago, Walking Boot said:

I think I've stated before on here that Fight Club can now only be viewed as a product of its time, that 1999/2000 era. The main thesis statement of the film, as stated by the main character, is that the masculinity of the era has been short-circuited by society not having a major war or major depression in which men can prove themselves. Within a few years of the film's release, we got both. So I'm not sure if the issue it was addressing even exists anymore.

I always thought the film was exactly the opposite of that. I thought that the character's warped view of masculinity and what it means to be a "man" was a cautionary tale whereby their view of masculinity caused destruction and mayhem because they were worshiping that part of masculinity which was a destructive force; one that had no reason, no teleological end. The actions taken in the film need no reason, justification, nor grand cause, they're just an existential lament about the state of masculinity in a consumer culture. It is violence for violence's sake, a final act of destruction committed by hobgoblins for no other reason than to burn it down.

I think, while I never dug the movie nor found it profound, that regardless of war or depression it still holds for a large majority of the population.

Edited by rockaction
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3 minutes ago, rockaction said:

I always thought the film was exactly the opposite of that. I thought that the character's warped view of masculinity and what it means to be a "man" was a cautionary tale whereby their view of masculinity caused destruction and mayhem because they were worshiping that part of masculinity which was a destructive force; one that had no reason, no teleological end. The actions taken in the film need no reason, justification, nor grand cause, they're just an existential lament about the state of masculinity in a consumer culture. It is violence for violence's sake, a final act of destruction committed by hobgoblins for no other reason that to burn it down.

I think, while I never dug the movie nor found it profound, that regardless of war or depression it still holds for a large majority of the population.

This is a very interesting perspective. I will think on it during my watch.

From memory, flawed as it is, I attributed a "reason" & "goal" of project Mayhem. Perhaps I am wrong. 

Has anyone here read the book? I know that books vs. movies is not always a good comparison, but I'm curious none the less.

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10 hours ago, Walking Boot said:

 

I think I've stated before on here that Fight Club can now only be viewed as a product of its time, that 1999/2000 era. The main thesis statement of the film, as stated by the main character, is that the masculinity of the era has been short-circuited by society not having a major war or major depression in which men can prove themselves. Within a few years of the film's release, we got both. So I'm not sure if the issue it was addressing even exists anymore.

Maybe we are back at that point now. There does seem to be a throughline for movies like Clockwork, Taxi Driver, Fight Club and Joker.

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Watched The Killing last night/this morning. Had seen it in the last year but forgot how much I liked it. Then watched The Big Sleep which also has Elisha Cook Jr. in it. Love the oldies.

About bed time for me now :sleep: 

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Fight Club's a hot mess, but it served to tell me more about a gen (Y? men in their forties, whatever they are) than any movie i've seen

Edited by wikkidpissah

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4 minutes ago, wikkidpissah said:

Fight Club's a hot mess, but it served to tell me more about a gen (Z? men in their forties, whatever they are) than any movie i've seen

Generation X, I would guess.

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Just now, rockaction said:

Generation X, I would guess.

no, it aint them. Star Wars hangover, BttF, those awful babysitter movies were them. I meant to put "Y" in there (now corrected). the 2nd of the gens who raised themselves after the nuclear family fell apart. latchkey, feminization, a disconnect from the gens being about making #### better, burgeoning liberty for all sexual orientations, a grieving process for white male identity - Fight Club showed a lot of the payoffs to all that.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, wikkidpissah said:

no, it aint them. Star Wars hangover, BttF, those awful babysitter movies were them. I meant to put "Y" in there (now corrected). the 2nd of the gens who raised themselves after the nuclear family fell apart. latchkey, feminization, a disconnect from the gens being about making #### better, burgeoning liberty for all sexual orientations, a grieving process for white male identity - Fight Club showed a lot of the payoffs to all that.

The characters are a little older than me, and I'm in the Gen X camp. But that's neither here nor there: I think you're right about your diagnosis that the themes are endemic to Generation Y (literary license) and that it allows a glimpse into the social zeitgeist of that set. 

Edited by rockaction
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Not that it matters but I think Boomers made Star Wars, BttF, 80s movies. 90s and 00s were more the realm of Gen X (born in mid 60s-80ish). Though I agree with all generations, you almost have to divide them into the the early and late versions. Millennials born in 84 certainly have major differences from those born in 96. 

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1 minute ago, Ilov80s said:

Not that it matters but I think Boomers made Star Wars, BttF, 80s movies. 90s and 00s were more the realm of Gen X (born in mid 60s-80ish). Though I agree with all generations, you almost have to divide them into the the early and late versions. Millennials born in 84 certainly have major differences from those born in 96

Yep. Same with Xers born in the 60s vs those of us at the tail end, mid-70s variety.

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I saw Fight Club prolly in 00 when I was 18. That’s the only time I’ve seen it. I liked it and it struck a chord but even then I thought its philosophy was overly simplistic. I really didn’t like or get the ending. I have almost no desire to see it again. It’s a movie perhaps as WB said of its time and even more of a time in one’s life (hopefully- one might be a bit stunted if they watch it at 30 or 40 and think it’s profound.)

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Good Fight Club discussion here.

I'm not up to date on the "generation" aspect. I was born '68. I think I saw it in '00 - when I was 32 or so. At the time, I was 8 years into a job that had become a major psychological burden on me. I hated it, but was addicted to the adrenaline it produced & the $ was good. Very conflicted. It also was a family biz, so I felt compelled to "see things through". (Note: Finally left job in 2009 and have been semi-retired since - things are much better now.)

When I saw the Narrator and his lack of fulfillment, I got it. Further, I really empathized with the "anti-consumerism". I spent so much time working, that I never spent the $. The house I lived in (and still do) was kinda like the dilapidated pile that Durden squatted in. (Note: House is fixed up now.) The point being, I was fed up with what was being fed to dudes my age, irt to life goals, work fulfillment, etc., & I got a kick out of the FU aspects.

Having said that, I never "bought into" the Durden philosophy; rather, I viewed it as a satire/metaphor/venting process. I have no clue if that was the intent of the makers, but it was funny to me - over the top - hyperbole. Catch-22 kinda hit me the same way.

I'll think more on it; I'm sure I'm forgetting something.

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42 minutes ago, Man of Constant Sorrow said:

Good Fight Club discussion here.

I'm not up to date on the "generation" aspect. I was born '68. I think I saw it in '00 - when I was 32 or so. At the time, I was 8 years into a job that had become a major psychological burden on me. I hated it, but was addicted to the adrenaline it produced & the $ was good. Very conflicted. It also was a family biz, so I felt compelled to "see things through". (Note: Finally left job in 2009 and have been semi-retired since - things are much better now.)

When I saw the Narrator and his lack of fulfillment, I got it. Further, I really empathized with the "anti-consumerism". I spent so much time working, that I never spent the $. The house I lived in (and still do) was kinda like the dilapidated pile that Durden squatted in. (Note: House is fixed up now.) The point being, I was fed up with what was being fed to dudes my age, irt to life goals, work fulfillment, etc., & I got a kick out of the FU aspects.

Having said that, I never "bought into" the Durden philosophy; rather, I viewed it as a satire/metaphor/venting process. I have no clue if that was the intent of the makers, but it was funny to me - over the top - hyperbole. Catch-22 kinda hit me the same way.

I'll think more on it; I'm sure I'm forgetting something.

This is more on the lines of how I take it.  There are some nuggets of truth - ie you aren't the clothes you wear, but it's taken to such an extreme that I think the movie and book are also poking fun at it or showing what the extreme might look like.  

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it's hard to buy in to having sufficing generational icons & archetypes (i know where i'm a droogie & where i'm a munchkin and i'm not happy with either) but, like it or not, Fight Club has us reading ally'all's mail (male?).

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1 hour ago, Man of Constant Sorrow said:

Good Fight Club discussion here.

I'm not up to date on the "generation" aspect. I was born '68. I think I saw it in '00 - when I was 32 or so. At the time, I was 8 years into a job that had become a major psychological burden on me. I hated it, but was addicted to the adrenaline it produced & the $ was good. Very conflicted. It also was a family biz, so I felt compelled to "see things through". (Note: Finally left job in 2009 and have been semi-retired since - things are much better now.)

When I saw the Narrator and his lack of fulfillment, I got it. Further, I really empathized with the "anti-consumerism". I spent so much time working, that I never spent the $. The house I lived in (and still do) was kinda like the dilapidated pile that Durden squatted in. (Note: House is fixed up now.) The point being, I was fed up with what was being fed to dudes my age, irt to life goals, work fulfillment, etc., & I got a kick out of the FU aspects.

Having said that, I never "bought into" the Durden philosophy; rather, I viewed it as a satire/metaphor/venting process. I have no clue if that was the intent of the makers, but it was funny to me - over the top - hyperbole. Catch-22 kinda hit me the same way.

I'll think more on it; I'm sure I'm forgetting something.

 

What I appreciated about Fight Club is that it said: "Here's a little issue. Here's a possible solution. That solution doesn't work. I don't know what does, to be honest."

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37 minutes ago, wikkidpissah said:

it's hard to buy in to having sufficing generational icons & archetypes (i know where i'm a droogie & where i'm a munchkin and i'm not happy with either) but, like it or not, Fight Club has us reading ally'all's mail (male?).

*Reported to Postal Inspector*

If I understand correctly, you are saying that it is a window into the psyche (kinda). Now, is this in regard to the 2000 psyche, or do you see it as a defining/on-going window? As if no resolution has been found.

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54 minutes ago, Man of Constant Sorrow said:

*Reported to Postal Inspector*

If I understand correctly, you are saying that it is a window into the psyche (kinda). Now, is this in regard to the 2000 psyche, or do you see it as a defining/on-going window? As if no resolution has been found.

FC defines the gestalt/psychic construct of the Gen Y male, more or less, better than any of its art of which i'm aware and the cutest thing about it is that those who love it most deny its effect on them most vociferously, methinksthoudostprotest2muchwise.

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8 minutes ago, wikkidpissah said:

FC defines the gestalt/psychic construct of the Gen Y male, more or less, better than any of its art of which i'm aware and the cutest thing about it is that those who love it most deny its effect on them most vociferously, methinksthoudostprotest2muchwise.

Very good.

irt to bold - kinda like a Catch-22. 👍

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Need to add: IRT myself, I see the most influence in my aversion to marketing/commercialism/consumerism and the like. I think I have mentioned it before, but I admit to irrational distaste of things in the sphere. After some more thought, I can prolly come up with other example.

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19 minutes ago, wikkidpissah said:

FC defines the gestalt/psychic construct of the Gen Y male, more or less, better than any of its art of which i'm aware and the cutest thing about it is that those who love it most deny its effect on them most vociferously, methinksthoudostprotest2muchwise.

Having a hard time understanding because I don't know what the bold pronoun is referring to. What's effect? The movie? Culture writ large?

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19 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Having a hard time understanding because I don't know what the bold pronoun is referring to. What's effect? The movie? Culture writ large?

Not trying to answer for wikkid, but irt to my own reply, I read "it" as the:

41 minutes ago, wikkidpissah said:

gestalt/psychic construct of the Gen Y male

If he meant it another way, then my answer may not make as much sense.

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1 minute ago, Man of Constant Sorrow said:

Not trying to answer for wikkid, but irt to my own reply, I read "it" as the:

If he meant it another way, then my answer may not make as much sense.

I'm still having trouble. :(

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11 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Having a hard time understanding because I don't know what the bold pronoun is referring to. What's effect? The movie? Culture writ large?

oy. i'd be more excited for the challenge except i'm pretty sure i've done it at least twice before. i'll try to be fresh.

By & large, the Gen X male is defined by its latchkeyness, the resulting abandonment & attachment issues and being raised on media designed specifically to keep them engaged after school. Pretty clear. Gen Y was a lot harder for me to nail down (as an elder citizen, by this time). Nothing that was theirs (Gen X had already turned the inside jokes of the Boomer gen into the reigning mythology), no place to plug in the fast-twitchedness of their urge range or frustrations. Because i thought FC was more of the pitiable "taking rasslin' seriously" gestalt by which i damned them, i went a long time without watching it. But when i did - boyohboyohboy. The thing about the world becoming too big to fail is that Gen Y saw no part for themselves in making or breaking their world. FC gave them a place to blow it up in their minds, so their peace-of-mind AND their angst became based as much in it as mine is in Wizard of Oz. Therefore, it is the Gen Y mythology. If i watched it again, i could probably tell you more, but i aint gonna. ####burger -

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2 minutes ago, wikkidpissah said:

oy. i'd be more excited for the challenge except i'm pretty sure i've done it at least twice before. i'll try to be fresh.

By & large, the Gen X male is defined by its latchkeyness, the resulting abandonment & attachment issues and being raised on media designed specifically to keep them engaged after school. Pretty clear. Gen Y was a lot harder for me to nail down (as an elder citizen, by this time). Nothing that was theirs (Gen X had already turned the inside jokes of the Boomer gen into the reigning mythology), no place to plug in the fast-twitchedness of their urge range or frustrations. Because i thought FC was more of the pitiable "taking rasslin' seriously" gestalt by which i damned them, i went a long time without watching it. But when i did - boyohboyohboy. The thing about the world becoming too big to fail is that Gen Y saw no part for themselves in making or breaking their world. FC gave them a place to blow it up in their minds, so their peace-of-mind AND their angst became based as much in it as mine is in Wizard of Oz. Therefore, it is the Gen Y mythology. If i watched it again, i could probably tell you more, but i aint gonna. ####burger -

Not to be contentious, but I think I got what you were trying to say; it was your syntax that finally bit me, and I can usually get past that and grok to what you're saying for the most part. 

But the exposition does give more clarity, I will say. Interesting theory.

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3 minutes ago, wikkidpissah said:

####burger -

LOL

Quote

oy. i'd be more excited for the challenge except i'm pretty sure i've done it at least twice before. i'll try to be fresh.

By & large, the Gen X male is defined by its latchkeyness, the resulting abandonment & attachment issues and being raised on media designed specifically to keep them engaged after school. Pretty clear. Gen Y was a lot harder for me to nail down (as an elder citizen, by this time). Nothing that was theirs (Gen X had already turned the inside jokes of the Boomer gen into the reigning mythology), no place to plug in the fast-twitchedness of their urge range or frustrations. Because i thought FC was more of the pitiable "taking rasslin' seriously" gestalt by which i damned them, i went a long time without watching it. But when i did - boyohboyohboy. The thing about the world becoming too big to fail is that Gen Y saw no part for themselves in making or breaking their world. FC gave them a place to blow it up in their minds, so their peace-of-mind AND their angst became based as much in it as mine is in Wizard of Oz. Therefore, it is the Gen Y mythology. If i watched it again, i could probably tell you more, but i aint gonna.

This is helpful, as I have not read any of your previous thoughts on FC.

I am honestly not sure where I fall irt X & Y. Is this a "date/age" thing or is it relative to things like location and maturity ... etc.

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1 minute ago, Man of Constant Sorrow said:

LOL

This is helpful, as I have not read any of your previous thoughts on FC.

I am honestly not sure where I fall irt X & Y. Is this a "date/age" thing or is it relative to things like location and maturity ... etc.

you are a multitude

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30 minutes ago, wikkidpissah said:

The thing about the world becoming too big to fail is that Gen Y saw no part for themselves in making or breaking their world. FC gave them a place to blow it up in their minds, so their peace-of-mind AND their angst became based as much in it as mine is in Wizard of Oz.

I thought of a good example from my own experience that fits this part very well.

In that job I mentioned earlier, I was tasked to fix a legal problem that occurred before I had the position. And, coincidentally, the big #### really hit the fan between '99 & '01 ... right in the FC time-zone.

And, when it hit, I realized/felt that not only did I have no part in the "breaking", I also was not really fixing it ... or making the new version. Rather, I was juggling words and telling lies to fit the demands of "superiors". Things got ugly at that point - for all involved. 

I saw FC. And, I blew it all up in my mind.

However, I don't recall watching it again on purpose. I have watched bits and pieces when I had cable (cut that in '08) ... and it would pop up. 

Heh. I'm looking more and more forward to watching again now.

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Why do you guys keep talking about something you're not supposed to talk about?

Anyway, I'm going to weigh in as well...

I was 35 and over my head with a young family: 2 kids under 3 and #3 on the way when FC came out, and as such was too broke to have the same materialistic longing as the narrator, was too rooted in trying to create a 'normal' life to buy into the rebelliousness of Project Mayhem, but neither was I too removed from their days that I couldn't empathize with their angst, so I wasn't dismissive either.  I think what may 'date' the movie is that the generation in the story didn't have any other big, traumatic event/war to go through, so there was no "built-in" outlet for their age-old aggressive instincts.  I think part of the traditional 'glamour' of war for young men is the idea of doing violent, world-changing things that comes crashing to earth when they realize what they were pursuing was a lie. I think ultimately Tyler and Project Mayhem filled that void, and that's why it resonated with the 20-30 somethings when it came out, but will resonate to future generations that grow up without a cause bigger than themselves they can collectively legitimately cause violence over.  Who knows, maybe that's why we're seeing more mass shootings and violence domestically. Humanity, men in particular, are still savage at heart but have fewer sanctioned ways to let that savagery loose.

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well, if you'd include some "Latina chubby mature" titles in your selections of the month, you'd never shut me up

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22 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

It seems like we have more talks about non-club movies than the selections of the month. ;)

The first rule of FBG Movie Club is you do not talk about the assigned movies. The second rule of FBG Movie Club is you DO NOT talk about the assigned movies.  The third rule of FBG Movie Club is non sequitur.

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In accordance with rule #1, TCM is showing Seven Samurai tonight. It's better than Hateful Eight.  Check your local listings.

 

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