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Ilov80s

FBG Movie Club: December movies posted and last call to vote on Noirvember

How would you rate The Killing?  

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1 hour ago, Ilov80s said:

I was thinking not till Monday- is that cool? At least not anything super spoilery

Cool.  I will hold off on a specific plot  gripe until then.  

 

 

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9 hours ago, Ilov80s said:

Yeah, thematically it was pretty loose. Numerical Westerns about an eclectic groups of mostly strangers coming together in a small town with the violent ending being inevitable. I liked Magnificent 7 more and have thought about it more. Hateful 8 highlighted some interesting things about race. Pretty much the only decent people in the movie were the black characters yet even the lowest white characters held out this racist ethos that just being white made them better. With Magnificent 7 my thoughts dwell more on it's place in movie history. It's an odd movie that shouldn't work but does. It wasn't a hit but it was the blueprint for some of the biggest hits of the 70s. Yet despite being highly influential, it didn't push the envvelope at all and if anything went less dark than many of 50s westerns. It also reminded me a lot of our modern super hero movies like The Avengers. Anyway, the biggest question I was left with is how can  a movie that was just pretty good and wasn't a big hit leave such a footprint? 

Sorry, I should have been more clear on my thoughts.  I liked the pairing we got for the double feature, I was saying that my reaction to them is what I found weird for the reasons that I listed - mainly that I felt like I was drawn more to the movie that I seemed to like less.    

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11 hours ago, Charlie Steiner said:

My gut feel was that he chose 70mm as an 'homage' to past 'epic' westerns, but if anything it fell flat for me after the opening credits (which gave me a late 60's/early 70's vibe, and I thought that was kind of cool), as there were no sweeping landscapes to draw attention to, so after that, if there was any kind of cinematic advantage to 70mm, I don't think I noticed. 

I took your 2nd question 2 different ways; first, from a visual point of view, regarding things the characters were doing aside from the central action of the scene, and second as regarding the dynamics between the characters as they played out in front of us.

As for my first reaction, I didn't notice anything specific that foreshadowed anything significant that happened later, and the major pivotal actions not only took place off screen completely, but also QT apparently felt he needed to then circle back for us and point out what he figured the audience would have missed/couldn't have known in order to make what we already saw make more sense(?). I guess what I mean by this is it felt like QT was that overprotective parent that takes his kid for his first ever amusement park kiddie ride and just before the first thrill of whatever ride they're on, he says "okay, don't be scared, ___ is about to happen."

However, I'm guessing your second question was probably more along the lines of how the interactions/dynamic between/among the characters contributed to the story. In that case, any and all interaction between characters was kind of lessened to me by how I felt QT had set up an air of mistrust from the first scene. The first reaction from each character as they're introduced to the story and each other is suspicion.  I read that tone into every interaction between every character the rest of the movie, and actually felt a little vindicated at the very end in the form of the Lincoln letter.

 

 

Great post here.  

Maybe my question was more on the lines of your first reaction.  What got me thinking about it was what I realized were my thoughts about the 70mm were this time through.  Loved the look of the opening shots, but then starting wondering WTF was the point if it's mostly inside.  Then I was coming around again to the idea and really liking the look and idea of it inside as well, but really mainly if it was being used as a way to be able to have more going on at the periphery that would give clues to a mystery and enhance rewatches.  That would be brilliant.  However, I felt QT completely undermined that by doing a voiceover himself (and like you said - basically hold our hand) and say "hey, this is some #### that happened, but there was no way for you to know that so I am just telling you in this terrible VO".  So I went back to thinking WTF was the point of using that format.  

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QT doing the voiceover at the start of Act 3 was what I posted about a few pages back when I said there was something I forgot about that made me want to kick my TV. 

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32 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

QT doing the voiceover at the start of Act 3 was what I posted about a few pages back when I said there was something I forgot about that made me want to kick my TV. 

As you would know, this drove me absolutely insane.  There was a part in Act 4 with the same completely unnecessary voiceover.

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8 hours ago, KarmaPolice said:

QT doing the voiceover at the start of Act 3 was what I posted about a few pages back when I said there was something I forgot about that made me want to kick my TV. 

Yeah I thought that was a big flaw in the movie and there could have been a better way to share that info.

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5 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

QT used the 70mm format to prove that he could. 

Yeah I tend to think he does things because he can or because it’s cool or stylish and not really with story or character in mind.

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9 hours ago, krista4 said:

As you would know, this drove me absolutely insane.  There was a part in Act 4 with the same completely unnecessary voiceover.

Was coming in here to post this. I asked myself wtf is this? Narration for dumb people who can’t follow along? I feel like it detracted from the suspense.

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1 hour ago, Osaurus said:

Was coming in here to post this. I asked myself wtf is this? Narration for dumb people who can’t follow along? I feel like it detracted from the suspense.

Seemed very 1950s- the studio demanded narration be added because the audience isn’t smart enough. 

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1 minute ago, Ilov80s said:

Seemed very 1950s- the studio demanded narration be added because the audience isn’t smart enough. 

Awful. It could have been done much better, but whatever. 

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10 minutes ago, Osaurus said:

Awful. It could have been done much better, but whatever. 

All the time that goes into writing and for this movie they did several live reads with an audience because the script leaked and its shocking a better way wasn’t figured out.

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The voiceover is just another self indulgent attempt to increase his importance by pulling a Hitchcock and inserting himself in his movie.

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I didn't hate H8 when I saw it I just didn't like it and felt it was a long form masturbation writ large for QT.  It is getting to be painful to watch it again.  Like, I can't do it for more than a few minutes because I know where everything is going and the "great dialogue" just isn't to me.  

I could watch M7 over and over still to this day.  It's just a great picture into the movie industry of the time, what made leading men in the time.... and it's fun.  I think that is the problem with H8; it's not fun.  Kill Bill was fun in many parts.  Pulp and RD were non stop awesome for me.  Most of his movies are fun or at least just great interactions with the characters that I just don't feel here, and I know on some level that isn't fair because this was a really good cast.

There is just too much QT and not enough movie if that makes sense.  I don't know.  If I have to watch this movie until the end I'm going to end up hating it almost as much as Castaway.

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11 minutes ago, Yankee23Fan said:

I didn't hate H8 when I saw it I just didn't like it and felt it was a long form masturbation writ large for QT.  It is getting to be painful to watch it again.  Like, I can't do it for more than a few minutes because I know where everything is going and the "great dialogue" just isn't to me.  

I could watch M7 over and over still to this day.  It's just a great picture into the movie industry of the time, what made leading men in the time.... and it's fun.  I think that is the problem with H8; it's not fun.  Kill Bill was fun in many parts.  Pulp and RD were non stop awesome for me.  Most of his movies are fun or at least just great interactions with the characters that I just don't feel here, and I know on some level that isn't fair because this was a really good cast.

There is just too much QT and not enough movie if that makes sense.  I don't know.  If I have to watch this movie until the end I'm going to end up hating it almost as much as Castaway.

You just couldn't help yourself, could ya? 👊

 

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3 minutes ago, The Man With No Name said:

Same here

Seems like this would be a blowout if it was a poll.

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On 7/10/2019 at 8:45 AM, Ilov80s said:

Next Friday, we will announce the pairing for July.

:popcorn:

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6 minutes ago, jdoggydogg said:

:popcorn:

@KarmaPolice and I are taking turns picking them. I chose this pairing and he’s working on July. I’ve seen what he’s picking from and you should be excited about it. 

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

@KarmaPolice and I are taking turns picking them. I chose this pairing and he’s working on July. I’ve seen what he’s picking from and you should be excited about it. 

Who wouldn't be excited about a Transformers double feature? 

Edited by KarmaPolice
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On 7/10/2019 at 8:45 AM, Ilov80s said:

Next Friday, we will announce the pairing for July.

 

Will it always be a double-feature? Some months that may be tougher than others.

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21 minutes ago, Walking Boot said:

 

Will it always be a double-feature? Some months that may be tougher than others.

That’s probably the plan. We assume for a multitude of reasons that some months won’t work for some people. Even if they can watch one of the movies, it still could be fun to participate. More movies gives people more options and makes the conversation more interesting. 

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34 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

That’s probably the plan. We assume for a multitude of reasons that some months won’t work for some people. Even if they can watch one of the movies, it still could be fun to participate. More movies gives people more options and makes the conversation more interesting. 

All this, plus I am guessing a majority of time people will probably have seen one of the movies before anyway.  

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5 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

All this, plus I am guessing a majority of time people will probably have seen one of the movies before anyway.  

Yes and some will rewatch but many won't. I wasn't sure at first, but now I agree with you that the double feature is the ideal approach. 

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What was the best performance between the films? Who was your favorite chartacter? 

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37 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

What was the best performance between the films? Who was your favorite chartacter? 

I'd probably answer; Brenner, McQueen and the score of M7.

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6 minutes ago, Yankee23Fan said:

I'd probably answer; Brenner, McQueen and the score of M7.

Leigh, McQueen and Yul for me. Good call on the score, that is clearly the star of the two films.

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20 minutes ago, Yankee23Fan said:

I'd probably answer; Brenner, McQueen and the score of M7.

Score of H8 blew away score of M7.*

*I haven't watched M7 and probably won't.  But that H8 score was the highlight of the movie.

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3 minutes ago, krista4 said:

Score of H8 blew away score of M7.*

*I haven't watched M7 and probably won't.  But that H8 score was the highlight of the movie.

Agree H8 score is great but even if you don’t watch the movie, the Elmer Bernstein M7 score is worth a listen.

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Ok, I have always been a "last minute" kinda guy on my assignments. 

I am going to do the Netflix extended H8 today/tonight. M7 will follow. 

I will have it all fresh and ready in me head fer Monday. 

So @Ilov80s - do you deduct for last minute cramming over proper preparation? 

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2 minutes ago, Man of Constant Sorrow said:

Ok, I have always been a "last minute" kinda guy on my assignments. 

I am going to do the Netflix extended H8 today/tonight. M7 will follow. 

I will have it all fresh and ready in me head fer Monday. 

So @Ilov80s - do you deduct for last minute cramming over proper preparation? 

Full credit but that extended version of H8 won't earn you any extra credit either. 

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9 hours ago, Ilov80s said:

What was the best performance between the films? Who was your favorite chartacter? 

I'd rate Jennifer Jason Leigh's performance as the best of both movies.  She's such a chameleon and can handle the broadest range of roles, and she brought it all to bear in H8. 

My favorite character, on the other hand, probably would be Robert Vaughn's in M7, though he didn't do much in the role, if that makes sense.  I think I understand what they were going for with the character and that's why Vaughn was cast; however, I think another actor around his age, Dennis Hopper, probably would have stolen the show if he had been cast in that role.

The pairing of these movies created a dichotomy for me; I preferred everything about M7 over H8 except the acting, where I would give the H8 cast a collective edge with regards to performing their roles, though I appreciate what the M7 actors brought to theirs, especially Coburn. Too bad he wasn't in his prime when they made The Terminator. Even though that role didn't require a lot of range, I think Coburn more menacing and scary than Arnold was.

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9 hours ago, Ilov80s said:

What was the best performance between the films? Who was your favorite chartacter? 

For M7 I would say the entire cast other then Robert Vaughn. I'm not sure it is Vaughn's fault, it may have been the director or the writing. I kept waiting for some big reveal due to the way he was always acting so mysterious but nothing really happened. The standouts for me were Bronson and Coburn.  While I think Brynner and McQueen were excellent I also feel they were doing Brynner and McQueen. Not much of an acting reach but it was good. They are like AC/DC, we know all the tunes are going to be the same but those tunes are awesome.

For Hateful 8 I would say Jennifer Jason Leigh and Kurt Russell. The rest of the cast in my opinion was passable but nothing to get excited about. I was most disappointed in Goggins. I really like him as an actor and I felt like he missed an opportunity here. I cant really put my finger on it but there ws something missing from his performance. Could be there was to much to his performance. I may have liked it better if his character was a little more understated. Zoe Bell who payed six horse Judy was abysmal and should have been cut from the film. 

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, prosopis said:

Zoe Bell who payed six horse Judy was abysmal and should have been cut from the film. 

Zoes don't get cut from the team. Ever.

Edited by rockaction

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7 minutes ago, Charlie Steiner said:

I'd rate Jennifer Jason Leigh's performance as the best of both movies.  She's such a chameleon and can handle the broadest range of roles, and she brought it all to bear in H8. 

My favorite character, on the other hand, probably would be Robert Vaughn's in M7, though he didn't do much in the role, if that makes sense.  I think I understand what they were going for with the character and that's why Vaughn was cast; however, I think another actor around his age, Dennis Hopper, probably would have stolen the show if he had been cast in that role.

The pairing of these movies created a dichotomy for me; I preferred everything about M7 over H8 except the acting, where I would give the H8 cast a collective edge with regards to performing their roles, though I appreciate what the M7 actors brought to theirs, especially Coburn. Too bad he wasn't in his prime when they made The Terminator. Even though that role didn't require a lot of range, I think Coburn more menacing and scary than Arnold was.

Interesting that your view of Vaughn was so much different than mine.

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Just now, rockaction said:

Zoe's don't get cut from the team. Ever.

That depends on a a few things

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Just now, prosopis said:

That depends on a a few things

Hopefully it doesn't hinge on cheeky apostrophes that aren't supposed to be there. Plural, rock, it's plural.

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1 minute ago, rockaction said:

Hopefully it doesn't hinge on cheeky apostrophes that aren't supposed to be there. Plural, rock, it's plural.

God willing

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To me, it seems like Vaughn’s character development may have been a casualty of editing, but I can’t confirm that. They were going somewhere with him and then it just fizzled out.

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9 hours ago, krista4 said:

Score of H8 blew away score of M7.*

*I haven't watched M7 and probably won't.  But that H8 score was the highlight of the movie.

I liked the H8 score, but I thought QT did not use it right.  It felt a bit under-used to me, and some of QT's other music choices seemed to detract from it.  It felt like he was having trouble picking a lane.

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55 minutes ago, Charlie Steiner said:

I'd rate Jennifer Jason Leigh's performance as the best of both movies.  She's such a chameleon and can handle the broadest range of roles, and she brought it all to bear in H8. 

My favorite character, on the other hand, probably would be Robert Vaughn's in M7, though he didn't do much in the role, if that makes sense.  I think I understand what they were going for with the character and that's why Vaughn was cast; however, I think another actor around his age, Dennis Hopper, probably would have stolen the show if he had been cast in that role.

The pairing of these movies created a dichotomy for me; I preferred everything about M7 over H8 except the acting, where I would give the H8 cast a collective edge with regards to performing their roles, though I appreciate what the M7 actors brought to theirs, especially Coburn. Too bad he wasn't in his prime when they made The Terminator. Even though that role didn't require a lot of range, I think Coburn more menacing and scary than Arnold was.

Funny.  I was going to say almost the same exact thing.  They didn't give him much screen time but RV did a very good job with what he had available to him. 

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Posted (edited)

Agree with JJL as best performance.

In reading the Wiki on the movie, I learned (hopefully not a spoiler, but more of an Easter egg) that Kurt Russell's character was not supposed to smash the guitar that he smashed, as it was an antique guitar on loan from a museum.  JJL gives an off-camera look when she screams "whoa, whoa, whoa" (like she was trying to get QT to cut), so you can tell that was not supposed to happen. I guess it was good to get a genuine reaction movie-wise; feel bad for losing that piece of history though.

Edited by Don Quixote

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1 minute ago, Don Quixote said:

Agree with JJL as best performance.

In reading the Wiki on the movie, I learned (hopefully not a spoiler, but more of an Easter egg) that Kurt Russell's character was not supposed to smash the guitar that he smashed, as it was an antique guitar on loan from a museum.  JJL gives an off-camera look when she screams "no, no, no", so you can tell that was not supposed to happen. I guess it was good to get a genuine reaction movie-wise; feel bad for losing that piece of history though.

Yeah supposedly QT didn’t know about it and Kurt Russell was never told that it was an antique guitar that needed to be switched out for a prop guitar. I find that hard to believe. 

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58 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

Yeah supposedly QT didn’t know about it and Kurt Russell was never told that it was an antique guitar that needed to be switched out for a prop guitar. I find that hard to believe. 

I could see Russell being out of the loop, but I find Tarantino particularly hard to believe, as he had to have been involved in securing the loan.  And he had to know when to cut. I was reading an article about QT snickering about it after it happened, which makes it hard to seem like a mistake.

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25 minutes ago, Don Quixote said:

I could see Russell being out of the loop, but I find Tarantino particularly hard to believe, as he had to have been involved in securing the loan.  And he had to know when to cut. I was reading an article about QT snickering about it after it happened, which makes it hard to seem like a mistake.

Exactly. I can’t stand him. 

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2 hours ago, prosopis said:

Interesting that your view of Vaughn was so much different than mine.

 

1 hour ago, kentric said:

Funny.  I was going to say almost the same exact thing.  They didn't give him much screen time but RV did a very good job with what he had available to him. 

Perhaps I'm reading the character wrong.

2 hours ago, Osaurus said:

To me, it seems like Vaughn’s character development may have been a casualty of editing, but I can’t confirm that. They were going somewhere with him and then it just fizzled out.

I guess this really hinges on whether or not I understood exactly what his character was supposed to be. If it was supposed to go in the direction I'm assuming, I didn't see enough of it, neither from the actor nor exposition in the story. That's why I thought of Dennis Hopper, as he seemed more able to do more with less.  TBH, I'm not very familiar with Robert Vaugh's resume, so perhaps the audience would have recognized better what he was doing.

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1 minute ago, Charlie Steiner said:

 

Perhaps I'm reading the character wrong.

I guess this really hinges on whether or not I understood exactly what his character was supposed to be. If it was supposed to go in the direction I'm assuming, I didn't see enough of it, neither from the actor nor exposition in the story. That's why I thought of Dennis Hopper, as he seemed more able to do more with less.  TBH, I'm not very familiar with Robert Vaugh's resume, so perhaps the audience would have recognized better what he was doing.

I think this was one of his first movie roles so audiences wouldn’t have been too familiar with him.

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OK.  I made it through Hateful Eight.  If it wasn't for this board and peer pressure, I probably would have tapped out after Chapter 3. 

My main problem was with the pacing.  Every scene lasted longer than it needed to.  Someone like Howard Hawks could have shot a half hour TV show out of the script.  I can't imagine the extended version.

I don't dislike Tarantino.  I'll probably see Once Upon a Time in Hollywood on opening week.  I appreciate his compulsion to entertain the audience and the latitude he provides for actors.   But like most manics, he's prone to excess and Hateful Eight is too much.

Maybe I'll like it better in the morning.

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4 hours ago, Eephus said:

OK.  I made it through Hateful Eight.  If it wasn't for this board and peer pressure, I probably would have tapped out after Chapter 3. 

My main problem was with the pacing.  Every scene lasted longer than it needed to.  Someone like Howard Hawks could have shot a half hour TV show out of the script.  I can't imagine the extended version.

I don't dislike Tarantino.  I'll probably see Once Upon a Time in Hollywood on opening week.  I appreciate his compulsion to entertain the audience and the latitude he provides for actors.   But like most manics, he's prone to excess and Hateful Eight is too much.

Maybe I'll like it better in the morning.

You won't. 

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I liked both movies, but preferred M7 by a significant margin. 

To begin, I see similarities in the major themes of frontier justice and race. I see differences in how they are handled, which is not surprising considering 1960 vs. 2018.

I don't have time to go deeper now, but I wanted to get the ball rolling. I will add details later. 

On the whole, I am very glad that I watched both; nice start for the Club. 

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