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FBG Movie Club: We're Getting the Band Back Together: Metallica vs Nina Simone Movie Docs (3 Viewers)

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  • Netflix

    Votes: 9 90.0%

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  • Total voters
    10
Ilov80s said:
@wikkidpissah what is the last high quality western in your opinion? Is it releveant anymore?
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Ballad of Buster Scruggs is the best 2018 flick i seen so far (still aint caught up, tho). Lonesome Dove is arguably the best TV show ever. I love the West, everything about frontiers, and believe that dawns are better-seen atop a horse than beside a beautiful woman.

But i never liked Westerns, by & large. They're not so much a genre as a trope, some weird kind of ethical tract, a confirmation of values that either bore or trouble me. I got nothing against the form on its own, but people who want things just so and miss no chance to declare that really like Westerns and i don't like people who like things just so. And i am so disconnected to the Power of the Gun that i don't really know what folks get from it. But I do know i don't like it.

All in all, i'd say there's plenty of life in the form (because there are few things more compelling than frontiers) but i wouldn't mourn its passing at all.

 
Our impressions about how people actually talked in the 19th century West are conditioned by 20th century Westerns but I'm pretty sure that Tarantino's very 21st century dialog is anachronistic.

 
Moonlight said:
Regarding the Magnificent 7 (classic).  First half is outstanding which culminates with the attack/defense of the village.

Movie IMO falls apart in 2nd half and makes no sense

Spoiler Alert

First, The bandits after losing half of their men decide to attack the village again. You mean tell me there isn't another defenseless village in all Mexico they could plunder at will.

Second, Chico wanders around the bandit camp even engaging the bandit leader in conversation and no one recognizes that he isn't a member of the bandit group. It isn't like the bandit numbers equal a battalion but rather there are about 40 men and half of them have already been killed.

Third, after the 7 are captured by the bandits. They are not executed but rather they are given their freedom and even more remarkably given their guns back. They do not even have to give their word they will not return. What kind of ruthless thieving bandits are these guys! I guess nobody had any friends or relatives or anyone who owed them money regarding the 20 bandits that were killed.
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I agree with your other points but they do attempt to excuse this. When Chico comes back from infiltrating their camp, he says they haven't eaten in 3 days which seems to imply they don't have the reosurces/energy to move on to another town but have no choice but to make one last all or nothing attack on the Mag7 and their village. 

 
wikkidpissah said:
Ballad of Buster Scruggs is the best 2018 flick i seen so far (still aint caught up, tho). Lonesome Dove is arguably the best TV show ever. I love the West, everything about frontiers, and believe that dawns are better-seen atop a horse than beside a beautiful woman.

But i never liked Westerns, by & large. They're not so much a genre as a trope, some weird kind of ethical tract, a confirmation of values that either bore or trouble me. I got nothing against the form on its own, but people who want things just so and miss no chance to declare that really like Westerns and i don't like people who like things just so. And i am so disconnected to the Power of the Gun that i don't really know what folks get from it. But I do know i don't like it.

All in all, i'd say there's plenty of life in the form (because there are few things more compelling than frontiers) but i wouldn't mourn its passing at all.
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I miss westerns.  There are too many superhero movies all advanced by CGI. If they continue to make money, they will continue to spawn. Its what the public wants. 

 
Eephus said:
H8 is more of a locked room mystery than a Western.  It's set in the old West but it has little of the typical mythology of the genre.  It lacks many of the devices of a locked room mystery too.  I suppose Samuel Jackson's character plays the detective role for part of the film when he tries to figure out who poison OB and John Ruth but even that turns out to be a secondary ruse once Channing Tatum's character appears.
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Great way to describe it, but basically what you are saying - that seemed to be the intent and feel to it, but there was really no mystery to be solved.  

 
My ratings for these were a 4/10 for Hateful Eight, and 6/10 for Mag 7, so obviously I gave them a 2 and a 3.    For me a 4/10 is a below average movie that I was able to watch all the way through.   I don't think I would ever watch it again.   Mag 7 is a good movie that I would watch again if I stumbled on it.  I think my dislike for the genre in general probably held back my rating a little.   It would have to be something damn good to override my bias and get a 8/10 rating or higher.   

 
wikkidpissah said:
Ballad of Buster Scruggs is the best 2018 flick i seen so far (still aint caught up, tho). Lonesome Dove is arguably the best TV show ever. I love the West, everything about frontiers, and believe that dawns are better-seen atop a horse than beside a beautiful woman.
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I think Scruggs is one of the best films the Coens ever made, and that's a movie where the tepid reviews really surprised me. 

 
KarmaPolice said:
:lol:   I was just coming in to suggest that it might be a good idea for people to post their ratings for these movies.   Make sure it's a normal rating system, not some weird @Andy Dufresne rating system.  ;)
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Does the rating system look sound? I was thinking 5=A, 4=B, 3=C, 2=D 1=F and 0=Deserves to be permanently expelled 

 
Eephus said:
I've been with Mrs. Eephus for 35 years but it took until this month to learn that she hates Glenn Ford.  She apparently doesn't like his face.

Thank you TCM.
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Funny and random. I'm a fan. 3:10 to Yuma is fantastic and The Big Heat is one of the top noirs IMO. 

 
Yul Brynner didn't look or talk like a typical Hollywood cowboy but the casting choice worked.  He conveyed strength and humanity in a way that made it believable that the villagers would trust him and the other six would follow his lead.  He had the cowboy walk down, moving with uncommon grace whether on foot or horseback.

A quick look at his IMDB page indicates M7 was his first Western.  He reprised his role as Chris in the sequel and appeared in a handful of other Westerns in the 60s including one as Pancho Villa.  He established enough credibility as a cowboy that he was cast as the robot gunslinger in the original Westworld.

 
Eephus said:
Yul Brynner didn't look or talk like a typical Hollywood cowboy but the casting choice worked.  He conveyed strength and humanity in a way that made it believable that the villagers would trust him and the other six would follow his lead.  He had the cowboy walk down, moving with uncommon grace whether on foot or horseback.

A quick look at his IMDB page indicates M7 was his first Western.  He reprised his role as Chris in the sequel and appeared in a handful of other Westerns in the 60s including one as Pancho Villa.  He established enough credibility as a cowboy that he was cast as the robot gunslinger in the original Westworld.
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Dominant. When you forget McQueen's onscreen, too....

 
OK, here's a game.  Recast one of the movies with the actors from the other.  Take out JJ Leigh and you have to fit the Hateful Seven into the Magnificent Seven or vice versa.

Robert Vaughn as Oswaldo Mobray seems like an obvious place to start.  Vaughn is one of the least Westerny of actors but his character in M7 was an odd bird.

Horst Buchholz has relevant experience playing a Mexicans in M7.  He gets Senor Bob.

Brynner carried M7 so he gets to play H7 sitting down as General Smithers.  Brynner stopped working at age 55 so there's no film of him playing an old man but I think he'd be excellent as an old General.  Brad Dexter was also considered but I don't think he'd ever make General.

Dexter has been cast as Sheriff Mannix.  This role is of two parts:  the racist histrionics of the beginning and the sidekick at the end.  Dexter would be well suited for the latter.  I didn't care for Walton Goggins performance in what was a well (and often overly) acted film.

McQueen would be the perfect Joe Gage.

James Coburn could do Gage as well but I need him to play John Ruth.  This was one of the tougher roles to cast.  I can't see McQueen playing a broad character like Ruth.

That leaves Bronson as Major Warren.  The script would need a lot of rewrites but Bronson conveys the violence that's an essential part of the character.  Coburn would make an excellent Major as well.  He and Samuel Jackson are two of film's great grinners.

 
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Great post but it's hard for me to imagine anyone swapping withg McQueen except  Channing Tatum and vice versa- even though Taum isn't really part of the core 8. 

 
Ilov80s said:
Great post but it's hard for me to imagine anyone swapping withg McQueen except  Channing Tatum and vice versa- even though Taum isn't really part of the core 8. 
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McQueen would have punched Tarantino during the first week of filming and been replaced by James Garner. 

I can't see Garner as any of the Mag 7 but he'd be great in a couple of roles in H8.

 
Ilov80s said:
I just now realized there was a M7 sequel and a tv show. How bad are they? 
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There were three movie sequels.  One each with Brynner, George Kennedy and Lee Van Cleef as Chris Adams.  I think I've seen the first one but memories blur into one big Western. 

The TV series had a different lead character but he was still named Chris.  As a real life Chris, I appreciate that.

 
Osaurus said:
You really need confirmation here? 
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Just curous if anyone remembers actually seeing them. It looks like the tv show got 2 seasons too and Yul did the sequel. I had no idea about any of this. 

 
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If they were starting the series today, I don't think they'd kill off as many characters in movie #1 because sequels are now considered from the get go. 

Brad Dexter has to die for his story arc to work.  Bronson would be tied to the village and couldn't figure in sequels, unless there was a spinoff sitcom set in the village with Horst Buchholz and the kids.  You know I love Coburn but his character doesn't present many dramatic possibilities.

I'd spare Vaughn, have him screw something up in movie #2 and turn heel to complete the trilogy.

 
Ilov80s said:
Does the rating system look sound? I was thinking 5=A, 4=B, 3=C, 2=D 1=F and 0=Deserves to be permanently expelled 
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Using this rating system, I will give M7 a B = 4/5 and H8 a C = 3/5. I am a generous grader by and large.

If I enjoy watching a movie (regardless of any flaws) I will give it a passing grade (C). I enjoyed watching H8 despite its flaws. 

If I really like watching a movie (regardless of any flaws) I will give it an above average grade (B). I really liked M7.

For a movie to score a 2, I would have to have not enjoyed it - but finished it.

For a 1, I would have to turned it off before finishing, but admit that others may have a valid reason to like it.

For a 0, I would have to turn it off before finishing and assert that it has no value whatsoever to anyone.

For a 5 (A) - that is tough. I think that I would have to break that down into decimals (5.0 - 5.9) in order to be fair. Maybe A-, A & A+.

 
Eephus said:
If they were starting the series today, I don't think they'd kill off as many characters in movie #1 because sequels are now considered from the get go. 

Brad Dexter has to die for his story arc to work.  Bronson would be tied to the village and couldn't figure in sequels, unless there was a spinoff sitcom set in the village with Horst Buchholz and the kids.  You know I love Coburn but his character doesn't present many dramatic possibilities.

I'd spare Vaughn, have him screw something up in movie #2 and turn heel to complete the trilogy.
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Bronson leads some of the Mexican villagers on a mission to rescue  Yul Brenner after he is caputured by Calvera's brother. It's predictable, but the audience will like it. 

 
Ilov80s said:
Bronson leads some of the Mexican villagers on a mission to rescue  Yul Brenner after he is caputured by Calvera's brother. It's predictable, but the audience will like it. 
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Tarantino's sequel would have the three survivors stranded in a cabin in the Sierra Madre along with the George Kennedy and Lee Van Cleef iterations of the character and the Yul Brynner robot from Westworld.  That makes six.  Get me Uma Thurman and Sam Jackson on the phone.

 
Eephus said:
OK, here's a game.  Recast one of the movies with the actors from the other.  Take out JJ Leigh and you have to fit the Hateful Seven into the Magnificent Seven or vice versa.

Robert Vaughn as Oswaldo Mobray seems like an obvious place to start.  Vaughn is one of the least Westerny of actors but his character in M7 was an odd bird.

Horst Buchholz has relevant experience playing a Mexicans in M7.  He gets Senor Bob.

Brynner carried M7 so he gets to play H7 sitting down as General Smithers.  Brynner stopped working at age 55 so there's no film of him playing an old man but I think he'd be excellent as an old General.  Brad Dexter was also considered but I don't think he'd ever make General.

Dexter has been cast as Sheriff Mannix.  This role is of two parts:  the racist histrionics of the beginning and the sidekick at the end.  Dexter would be well suited for the latter.  I didn't care for Walton Goggins performance in what was a well (and often overly) acted film.

McQueen would be the perfect Joe Gage.

James Coburn could do Gage as well but I need him to play John Ruth.  This was one of the tougher roles to cast.  I can't see McQueen playing a broad character like Ruth.

That leaves Bronson as Major Warren.  The script would need a lot of rewrites but Bronson conveys the violence that's an essential part of the character.  Coburn would make an excellent Major as well.  He and Samuel Jackson are two of film's great grinners.
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Major Warren -- James Coburn. I mentioned a few pages back that I wasn't very familiar with his body of work, which allowed me to see him in close to the same light as the audience when M7 first came out.  To me, he had a subtle sense of menace to him, which to me works great for Major Warren.  Obviously, the racial aspect would have to be thrown out but could be replaced by something else.  Granted it wouldn't have the same social commentary, but to me that would be an upgrade.

John Ruth--Steve McQueen. Kurt Russell brings a level of everyman relatability to his roles, and McQueen, while much 'cooler', did the same thing.  Plus, how great would it be to see him smash poor Daisy in the face without apparent provocation?

Sheriff Mannix--Robert Vaugh.  That's right, Robert Vaughn.  Gives him a chance to play the exact opposite of his character from M7, and I think given his other work, he could pull off the self-righteous ##### that was Mannix.

Bob--Charles Bronson. Can be 'ethnic' looking enough to pass as Mexican, and given Bob's role in the larger story, would pay off more as the movie progresses.

Oswaldo Mobray--Yul Brynner. Don't think I need to explain why he'd be a great hangman.

Joe Gage--Brad Dexter. The most archetypical-looking cowboy of the bunch.

Gen. Smithers--That leaves Horst Buchholz. Would require a little more tinkering with the character to make him fit, but the 'bravado' he brought to M7 would work for this character as well.

When I have time, I'll cast M7 with the H8 cast.

 
Vin- As much as I want it to be Channing Tatum since he is the only one in the cast cool enough to pull of McQueen, he's also the only one young and good looking enough to carry the Chico role. So Vin goes to Goggins. He will bring a different vibe to the role- a little edgier, not quite as calm and cool. 

Chris Adams- Samuel Jackson isn't as big, strong or young as Yul was in here but Jackson has the charisma, presence, look and voice to provide just the same level of gravitas. 

Lee- Tim Roth can do polite and toubled so well, he would be a natural replacement for Robert Vaughn. 

James Colburn- Micheal Madse can flash a menacing grin and yet always keep it cool with the the best of them

Bernando- Kurt Russell is also a lot older than Bronson but he is a big guy who could play a grizzled soldier of fortune with a slight hint of pathos. We could understand him sacrificing his life for the kids in the village- the sons he never had

Harry Luck- Jennifer Jason Leigh could flip the role around and make it even more interesting as a woman out for fortune- perhaps with a risque semi-implied former love connection with Samuel Jackson. 

Chico-  It feels like a waste having Tatum hear instead of as Vin, but the Hateful 8 cast but the other option was Bruce Dern. 

Calvera- Demian Flichir who played Bob would get another crack at playing a violent Mexican gangster. 

 
Casting M7 with the H8 cast:

Samuel L. Jackson as Caldera. How great would it be to have a Mexican village being terrorized by a gang led by Samuel L. Jackson?

Kurt Russell as Lee. Kurt Russell as a feared gunfighter with a yellow streak a mile long? Yes, please.

Jennifer Jason Leigh as Britt. Besides the fact that she could pull it off, it would fit in with our era of women's empowerment.

Tim Roth as Vin. I think Roth has the range as an actor to pull this off.

Michael Madsen as Bernardo. Without doing or saying anything, Madsen looks like a guy who's down on his luck.

Walton Goggins as Chris. I'm not that familiar with Goggins' body of work, but nor do I think Chris is that complex of a character, either.

Bruce Dern as Harry Luck. Harry seemed like he was there but was in his own world at the same time.  Bruce Dern has always been good at that kind of role.

Demian Bichir as Chico. Sort of obvious, but I think could bring a little more gravitas for a more modern audience.

 
Charlie Steiner said:
Casting M7 with the H8 cast:

Samuel L. Jackson as Caldera. How great would it be to have a Mexican village being terrorized by a gang led by Samuel L. Jackson?

Kurt Russell as Lee. Kurt Russell as a feared gunfighter with a yellow streak a mile long? Yes, please.

Jennifer Jason Leigh as Britt. Besides the fact that she could pull it off, it would fit in with our era of women's empowerment.

Tim Roth as Vin. I think Roth has the range as an actor to pull this off.

Michael Madsen as Bernardo. Without doing or saying anything, Madsen looks like a guy who's down on his luck.

Walton Goggins as Chris. I'm not that familiar with Goggins' body of work, but nor do I think Chris is that complex of a character, either.

Bruce Dern as Harry Luck. Harry seemed like he was there but was in his own world at the same time.  Bruce Dern has always been good at that kind of role.

Demian Bichir as Chico. Sort of obvious, but I think could bring a little more gravitas for a more modern audience.
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Good calls except I can not imagine Bruce Dern running around shooting people or riding a horse. If we could get Dern 20 years ago, that would have been $$$. 

Or maybe 30 years ago

 
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Ilov80s said:
Good calls except I can not imagine Bruce Dern running around shooting people or riding a horse. If we could get Dern 20 years ago, that would have been $$$. 

Or maybe 30 years ago
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TBH, Dern's age was an issue for me, but I felt he was a good fit for that character and they could just work around the physical side of the role. The magic of Hollywood and all that.

 
Ilov80s said:
Most of the H8 cast is kind of old honestly. 
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Maybe that's why I had a sort of wild idea about M7 with this cast...

Since we all know this was a remake of 7 Samurai, I was thinking we could change the setting of the story again, this time to a more modern and urban setting. Have it take place in a section of New York City or Los Angeles that's being taken over by a gang, and Chris a beat cop assigned to that area but due to police budget constraints, he has to appeal to the residents to help him fight the gang. Instead of gunfighters, they're all recluse veterans from various wars; Dern a Viet Nam vet, the rest either from Desert Storm or post 9-11, etc., and the rest of the neighbors are a bunch yuppie/hipsters who don't know anything about fighting and just want to raise their kids in peace. 

Almost like Gran Torino but with more people.

 
The Hateful 8 reminded me a lot of Austin Powers In Goldmember - no, I'm not comparing comedies to westerns.

I really liked International Man of Mystery and The Spy Who shagged Me, but thought that Goldmember was a very weak imitation of both. It had the same kind of jokes but they were not done nearly as well so they became a tired retread. It also seemed to really drag in places.

Hateful 8 felt like a much weaker retread of QT's better films. And for me, it needed to have about 45 minutes less screen/talking time in it. 

 
Tarantino isn't respectful of his audience's time.  He wasted a lot of time in the beginning setting up gags that didn't deliver anything in the end.  I mean has there ever been a movie that spent more time hammering doors shut.  What was the point of that?  I guess the payoff is that it was shot up when Minnie and the others were killed.  Tarantino also seemed  to be fascinated by the installation of guide ropes to the outhouse. 

I checked the run time of Once Upon a Time in Hollywood.  It's 2 hours 44 minutes, four minutes shorter than Hateful Eight.  It shouldn't be as claustrophobic.

 
I didn't watch Magnificent Seven.  Out of respect for one of my top 10 movies of all time, Seven Samurai, I just couldn't.

It appears I liked Hateful Eight more than most. It's not something that I'd consider a "must-see," and I wouldn't ever watch it again, but I was entertained pretty much throughout.  Highlights for me were the score (though as someone mentioned, it could have been utilized better), the cinematography during the first segment in particular, and much of the acting.  I actually enjoyed the nearly cartoon-ish performances of Walton Goggins and SLJ and others; felt like the manner fit.  Oddly, the most praised performance here and in general (i.e., Oscar nomination) - Jennifer Jason Leigh's - was my least favorite.  Seemed over the top and unnecessarily gross in a way that didn't fit.  I'm obviously in the minority there.

I really enjoyed the second segment and felt like it was setting up a terrific "whodunnit"; I like the "talk-y" parts of this movie the best.  I even liked the misdirection of the various explanations as to who they were - funny that the one that I expected most to be a liar (Walton Goggins's character) was the one who actually turned out to be a "good guy" (insofar as there were any), while I didn't question the hangman or the Gage guy or SLJ or anyone else so much.  I liked the turning inside out of good and bad.  But then it was certainly a disappointment when the basement character suddenly shot them up and we got a voiceover (arrrrrrrggggghhhh) explaining what had happened.  Regardless, I was still interested in seeing it to its finish.

I don't know, maybe a 5.5 or 6 of 10 for me?  Anything that kept me watching for 3.5 hours or whatever it was, without ever feeling bored, shouldn't score lower than that.  It's not edge-of-your-seat anticipation, and disappointing in many ways, but better than average for me.

 
krista4 said:
I didn't watch Magnificent Seven.  Out of respect for one of my top 10 movies of all time, Seven Samurai, I just couldn't.

It appears I liked Hateful Eight more than most. It's not something that I'd consider a "must-see," and I wouldn't ever watch it again, but I was entertained pretty much throughout.  Highlights for me were the score (though as someone mentioned, it could have been utilized better), the cinematography during the first segment in particular, and much of the acting.  I actually enjoyed the nearly cartoon-ish performances of Walton Goggins and SLJ and others; felt like the manner fit.  Oddly, the most praised performance here and in general (i.e., Oscar nomination) - Jennifer Jason Leigh's - was my least favorite.  Seemed over the top and unnecessarily gross in a way that didn't fit.  I'm obviously in the minority there.

I really enjoyed the second segment and felt like it was setting up a terrific "whodunnit"; I like the "talk-y" parts of this movie the best.  I even liked the misdirection of the various explanations as to who they were - funny that the one that I expected most to be a liar (Walton Goggins's character) was the one who actually turned out to be a "good guy" (insofar as there were any), while I didn't question the hangman or the Gage guy or SLJ or anyone else so much.  I liked the turning inside out of good and bad.  But then it was certainly a disappointment when the basement character suddenly shot them up and we got a voiceover (arrrrrrrggggghhhh) explaining what had happened.  Regardless, I was still interested in seeing it to its finish.

I don't know, maybe a 5.5 or 6 of 10 for me?  Anything that kept me watching for 3.5 hours or whatever it was, without ever feeling bored, shouldn't score lower than that.  It's not edge-of-your-seat anticipation, and disappointing in many ways, but better than average for me.
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I’m glad you enjoyed it, KP and I were worried it might be a bad pairing for you and a few others (including KP lol). As for M7, I have only seen Seven Samurai once and don’t have the adoration for it you do but I will say Mag 7 seemed very different to me. Ofcourse the general premise to kick things off is the same but beyond that I didn’t get Seven Samurai vibes.

 
@KarmaPolice and I are excited to present the July movies tomorrow. I already think there are some interesting conversation points- especially given the recent public conversation about this FaceApp. 

 
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