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FBG Movie Club: We're Getting the Band Back Together: Metallica vs Nina Simone Movie Docs (6 Viewers)

I currently have

  • Netflix

    Votes: 9 90.0%

  • Amazon Prime

    Votes: 9 90.0%

  • HBO Max

    Votes: 8 80.0%

  • Hulu

    Votes: 8 80.0%

  • Disney+

    Votes: 6 60.0%

  • Criterion

    Votes: 1 10.0%

  • TCM Chanel

    Votes: 6 60.0%
  • Total voters
    10
Charlie Steiner said:
... plus something that seems to have been completely overlooked is the character of Marvin's homosexual feelings towards Johnny.  There's a scene just before Johnny leaves to start his part of the plan where Marvin tells Johnny something to the effect of "let's run away together, hide from the world and sort things out. I'm not sure if there's another way to take that exchange, and I don't know if anyone else picked up on that.

...
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Yeah. I caught this too, but I had to find a quote to make sure that I was hearing it right.

Marvin Unger: You've had a lot of rough breaks and made a few mistakes; but, after today, the good Lord willing, you'll be a new man. A rich man. And that can make a lot of difference. Got a lot of life ahead of you. A lot of people to meet. People of quality and substance.

Johnny Clay: What are you gettin' at?

Marvin Unger: Wouldn't it be great if we could just go away, the two of us, and let the old world take a couple of turns, and have a chance to take stock of things. It can be pretty serious and terrible, particularly if its not the right person. Getting married, I mean.
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The last sentence, "Getting married, I mean." - is still kinda confusing me though. Is Marvin trying to say that he is suggesting a marriage-type relationship between them, or is he deflecting to marriage in general... away from the same sex relationship implied earlier?

Minor comments:

Maurice had some of my favorite lines in The Killing. One in particular that stood out was this:

Johnny Clay: Like the man said, "Life is like a glass of tea." Huh?

Maurice: Oh, Johnny, my friend, you never were very bright; but, I love you anyway.
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Maurice seemed to be the only one close to Johnny that spoke to him on equal terms. He was a true "pro" as well. And, the irony of having the "hired muscle" be the most well thought and spoken of the crew was pretty nice as well.

E.g.:

Maurice: Would it be out of order for me to ask for what it is you are willing to pay such a price to see me demonstrate my talents? I would imagine, it is for more than just your own personal entertainment.
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Maurice: I'd like you to call this number and ask for Mr. Stillman. Tell him that Maurice requires his services.

Fisher: Sounds pretty mysterious. What's it all about?

Maurice: There are some things, my dear Fisher, which bear not much looking into. You have undoubtedly heard of the Siberian goatherd who tried to discover the true nature of the sun; he stared up at the heavenly body until it made him blind. There are many things of this sort, including love, and death, and... maybe we'll discuss this later today. Please remember to make that call if I'm not back at 6:30.
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As best I recall, Maurice fared pretty well in the end. He was hauled away by the cops for brawling, but unless Johnny squeals, his part in the plan will never be detected. Did anyone else fare better in the end? I'm not sure, but I don't think so.

More later.

 
Between the 2 movies, things didn’t work out well for very many people. I think there’s only 2 characters that ever appear on screen who aren’t killed and they end up with no money and an incredible guilt that is to ruin their marriage and likely their lives. 

 
Don Quixote said:
I guess with deadline passed, can discuss spoilers now.

I thought the movies worked well as a pairing.  Some similarities that reflect common film noir elements, but also some key differences too.  Both feature characters whose greed led them to believe that they could control their circumstances.  And endings are similar with circumstances eventually going beyond their control, and protagonist losing the loot.  And both have the femme fatales helping to push things out of control (in The Killing, that role is played by Sherry who had one of the great lines: "It isn't fair. I never had anybody but you. Not a real husband. Not even a man. Just a bad joke without a punch line."

But The Killing had more of the nihilism common in the detective film noirs.  A Simple Plan has more of the tragic caught up in circumstances.  If I could compare it to a couple of Bogie films, The Killing is to A Simple Plan as The Maltese Falcon is to The Treasure of Sierra Madre.
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Also glad you thought they worked well together. I didn’t remember much about A Simple Plan than the bag of money element so while watching I was pleasantly surprised by how well I thought it was pairing.

 
Ilov80s said:
Between the 2 movies, things didn’t work out well for very many people. I think there’s only 2 characters that ever appear on screen who aren’t killed and they end up with no money and an incredible guilt that is to ruin their marriage and likely their lives. 
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LOL. Sorry to laugh at such noir, but ...

Also, this is strong support for my, "Maurice for the WIN!"  (MftW) campaign.

I found a link to the script.

- These men are not gonna be in on the basic scheme. They're getting paid to perform certain definite duties at a certain definite time. And they're not cutting in on the take. They'll be paid a flat price to do a straight job.

- Well, if they don't know anything about the basic plan, about the job, then why are they doin' it?

- It's simple. These boys are straight hoods. They get paid in advance. Five grand for the one with the rifle, and 2,500 for the other.

- Where's this money comin' from?

- That's where Marvin comes in. He's getting the 7,500 for us, and he gets it back off the top.
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So, at this point, it appears that Maurice is gonna get a cool 2.5K of Marvin's seed money before anything can go to hell.

Does it play out that way? (script)

- Maurice, could you use $2,500?

- It has a pleasant ring to the ear. Quite musical. What is it for?

- For taking care of half a dozen private #####. Racetrack cops. I want you to start a fight with the bartender at the track. The track cops will try to break it up. You keep 'em busy for as long as you can. Make 'em drag you out of the place. No gunplay. Strictly a muscle job.

- Would it be out of order for me to ask...for what it is that you are willing to pay such a price to see me demonstrate my talents? I would imagine it is for more than just your own personal entertainment.

- $2,500 is a lot of dough, Maurice. Part of it's for not asking questions.

- That sounds not unreasonable. Still, I will probably go to jail, and jails I have found unpleasant. Food is very bad, company is poor, beds are too small.

- Ah, it'll only be a disorderly conduct charge. Maybe 60 days, nothing worse. And if a man has a little money to spread around in the right places, he can be quite comfortable for his stay.
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So, according to my memory and the script, it never shows him getting paid, but I think that it is safe to assume that he got him money before things went bad.

If that is the case, and Johnny was right about the punishment Mo would face, then, I say .... "Maurice for the WIN!" 😎

You go, Mo. 👍

back for more l8r.

 
I have not voted yet, but I am not going to go any lower than a 4/5 for each.

The Killing is leaning slightly heavier towards a 5 at the moment, for little details that prolly should not matter. 

Example: Triumph Motorcycle Dealership in background.

As a MC dude, I love Triumphs. I built 2 cafe racers back in the 90's. Sold the last one in '15. The things used to be the premier affordable sport bike. My "Harley only" biker pals even tolerated them. Getting to see them featured in old movies (even as a store) is always a great time. Note: Brando in The Wild One is a great watch for Triumph fans.

 
Really enjoyed The Killing. Was an excellent heist film, and one that will stand up to repeated viewings.

There are a lot of moving parts, and they never really explain the heist details too much, so you're left to figure out who does what when, which i thought was fun. For example, we have George, who's getting paid to open a door. That's it - that's his job. If they explained his role earlier, then I missed it (oh, he also had to map out the place with the bartender). 

I didn't pick up a homosexual vibe from Marvin and Johnny. The conversation is a little odd I suppose, but I think it was more implying they both find someone, get married, etc. Sterling Hayden was great in this. I had also recently watched the Asphalt Jungle, which also had Hayden in a prominent role, and I wondered why he didn't achieve the status of some of his colleagues. I read his bio tonight, and it seems as though he didn't think much of acting (hated it really), so that's probably it. But he's really good in these kinds of films from that era.  On a later note, I'm a huge Godfather fan, and I had no idea he was also McCluskey - never put it together until I saw IMDB credits.

These two films did pair well (kudos to whoever put that together). Different takes on a group of guys, a nosy woman,  and a bag full of money. This one was probably more Noir, and it'll wind up in hard copy in my collection.   

 
Man of Constant Sorrow said:
So, according to my memory and the script, it never shows him getting paid, but I think that it is safe to assume that he got him money before things went bad.

If that is the case, and Johnny was right about the punishment Mo would face, then, I say .... "Maurice for the WIN!" 😎

You go, Mo. 👍
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In my mind, Mo got paid. You go, Mo indeed!

 
Fantastic observations and discussion in here.  I never got around to a rewatch, so feel like I can't contribute anything, but now I'll rewatch sometime with all your comments in mind to enhance my viewing.

 
The Killing is a good little movie that owes some of its reputation to the involvement of Kubrick and co-writer Jim Thompson.  Without them, it might be lost among many other similar 50s film noirs. 

Kubrick was clearly working under a tight budget but still is able to show his ambitions went beyond B-movies.  The paired tracking shots through the walls and furniture of Fay and Peatty's apartments were over in 5 seconds but were very cool.  The closely cropped long telephoto shot of the horses on the track was memorable and is echoed near the end as Johnny walks through the racetrack crowd.  The lighting in the interior scenes is always interesting.  I liked the way they framed Johnny with images of prison bars, either with shadows on the wall or shot from behind the headboard.

The movie races by at a brisk 84 minutes and I think suffers a bit because of it.  There's not enough of Thompson's purple dialog and some characters are barely developed.  A number of scenes (although not the wrestling one) could have been extended a little.  The robbery itself is over before you know what happened.   I did find the shootout between Sherry's husband and boyfriend to be refreshingly brief.  A 21st century movie would have made a meal out of that scene.

It's been a long time since I've seen The Killing.  Although it wasn't quite as good as I remembered, it still holds up well as film noir and a heist movie. 

 
Eephus said:
 I did find the shootout between Sherry's husband and boyfriend to be refreshingly brief.  A 21st century movie would have made a meal out of that scene.
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Yea, as a rule, old time movie shootouts tended to be brief, but this one took the cake. There must have been a magic JFK bullet for all the dead bodies a few shots produced. 

 
11 voters so far. Sadly quite a few who didn’t watch The Killing. Not Kubrick fans? No time? No Amazon? 

 
jwb said:
Really enjoyed The Killing. Was an excellent heist film, and one that will stand up to repeated viewings.

There are a lot of moving parts, and they never really explain the heist details too much, so you're left to figure out who does what when, which i thought was fun. For example, we have George, who's getting paid to open a door. That's it - that's his job. If they explained his role earlier, then I missed it (oh, he also had to map out the place with the bartender). 

I didn't pick up a homosexual vibe from Marvin and Johnny. The conversation is a little odd I suppose, but I think it was more implying they both find someone, get married, etc. Sterling Hayden was great in this. I had also recently watched the Asphalt Jungle, which also had Hayden in a prominent role, and I wondered why he didn't achieve the status of some of his colleagues. I read his bio tonight, and it seems as though he didn't think much of acting (hated it really), so that's probably it. But he's really good in these kinds of films from that era.  On a later note, I'm a huge Godfather fan, and I had no idea he was also McCluskey - never put it together until I saw IMDB credits.

These two films did pair well (kudos to whoever put that together). Different takes on a group of guys, a nosy woman,  and a bag full of money. This one was probably more Noir, and it'll wind up in hard copy in my collection.   
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Hayden wrote a novel, a tale of the sea, that i read during a business trip backinday, and enjoyed thoroughly

ETA: thought i had another week, for some reason. Re-watched Killing (liked it well but less), will try to re-watch the other tonite. i like to find comparisons so wont comment til i've done both. sry bout the delay

 
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This was my first time watching A Simple Plan.  It came out in the late 90s when I was stuck watching kids movies.  There's a lot to like about the film but I didn't think it was particularly noirish.  It lacked many of the visual characteristics of film noir such as the expressionistic use of light and shadow, claustrophobic close-cropped interior shots, etc.  With all the new fallen snow, it challenged the films based on Stieg Larsson's novels as the brightest film noirs ever made.  When the scenes leading up to the deaths of Lou and Mrs. Lou happened, I thought "ah, the film is going to start in light and get progressively darker" but that didn't happen.

The central characters were certainly corrupt but they weren't cynical or sinister enough to inhabit a film noir world.  Film noir often deals with protagonists drawn inexorably into darkness by fate or evil but in A Simple Plan their downfall was mostly caused by stupidity.  The trio's bungling did keep the convoluted plot moving along and I guess may have generated some empathy from the audience but I found it more frustrating than anything else.  Apparently Hank's descent is much more complete in the novel than in the film version but since Scott Smith wrote the screenplay, I can't blame Hollywood for softening the edge.

Aside from my niggling objections that it wasn't noir enough, A Simple Plan is a fine piece of entertainment.  The actors are excellent and the closed universe is well realized.  Raimi's direction is effective more than showy which fits the small town environment.

 
Eephus said:
This was my first time watching A Simple Plan.  It came out in the late 90s when I was stuck watching kids movies.  There's a lot to like about the film but I didn't think it was particularly noirish.  It lacked many of the visual characteristics of film noir such as the expressionistic use of light and shadow, claustrophobic close-cropped interior shots, etc.  With all the new fallen snow, it challenged the films based on Stieg Larsson's novels as the brightest film noirs ever made.  When the scenes leading up to the deaths of Lou and Mrs. Lou happened, I thought "ah, the film is going to start in light and get progressively darker" but that didn't happen.

The central characters were certainly corrupt but they weren't cynical or sinister enough to inhabit a film noir world.  Film noir often deals with protagonists drawn inexorably into darkness by fate or evil but in A Simple Plan their downfall was mostly caused by stupidity.  The trio's bungling did keep the convoluted plot moving along and I guess may have generated some empathy from the audience but I found it more frustrating than anything else.  Apparently Hank's descent is much more complete in the novel than in the film version but since Scott Smith wrote the screenplay, I can't blame Hollywood for softening the edge.

Aside from my niggling objections that it wasn't noir enough, A Simple Plan is a fine piece of entertainment.  The actors are excellent and the closed universe is well realized.  Raimi's direction is effective more than showy which fits the small town environment.
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I think this gets at the unanswerable question of what is noir. If it’s shadows, dark interiors, off kilter angles, etc than Simple Plan ain’t it. If noir is the cynical, the sense of dread, menace, a world corrupted and characters who have lost control of their world and who’s best attempts to control it only seal their fates than I think it’s perfect neo noir.

 
I just don't care for "The Killing" but especially when compared to "Asphalt Jungle". Kubrick was still emerging as a director, for sure, and doesn't hold up well against the storytelling of a master like John Huston here. There a few minor noirs that I like including "Hollow Triumph" with Paul Henreid from "Casablanca" . There's always "The Lady from Shanghai" if you can forgive Orson Welles hammy acting here.

As for other noir films of more recent vintages (that aren't Coen Bros) I'd recommend "Red Rock West" with Dennis Hopper and Nic Cage, "The Last Seduction" with Linda Fiorentino, "After Dark, My Sweet" with Jason Patric, Rachel Ward, and Bruce Dern. There's a neat Aussie film called "The Square" that's from the Edgerton boys there in Oz that fits noir genre too.

 
saintfool said:
I just don't care for "The Killing" but especially when compared to "Asphalt Jungle". Kubrick was still emerging as a director, for sure, and doesn't hold up well against the storytelling of a master like John Huston here. There a few minor noirs that I like including "Hollow Triumph" with Paul Henreid from "Casablanca" . There's always "The Lady from Shanghai" if you can forgive Orson Welles hammy acting here.

As for other noir films of more recent vintages (that aren't Coen Bros) I'd recommend "Red Rock West" with Dennis Hopper and Nic Cage, "The Last Seduction" with Linda Fiorentino, "After Dark, My Sweet" with Jason Patric, Rachel Ward, and Bruce Dern. There's a neat Aussie film called "The Square" that's from the Edgerton boys there in Oz that fits noir genre too.
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Dissenting opinions are welcome. I’ll also say The Killing is far from my favorite noir or Kubrick. This selection was more of a melding or what’s available on streaming and what would pair well. 

 
Ilov80s said:
Dissenting opinions are welcome. I’ll also say The Killing is far from my favorite noir or Kubrick. This selection was more of a melding or what’s available on streaming and what would pair well. 
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I know it's a challenge and mostly unenviable at that. What's the next in the series selection genre-wise, btw?

 
And me.

What about me?  - Bridget Fonda in A Simple Plan

I'm tired.

In re-watching it, i was instantly reminded how much i loved ASP first time around, but i can't abide it 20 yrs later.

The Noirvember films are well-connected - taking 'crime doesn't pay' literally, in the proud tradition of Treasure of the Sierra Madre.  I've liked The Killing well enough every time i've seen it, enjoying Kubrick's ability to heighten reality right out of the box, joining the dawn of an era where the best movies ever made resulted from similar techniques. And i remembered marveling over the savage wit & conceptions of A Simple Plan, seeing it as a comedy of exponentially-expanding errors.

But it's not funny anymore, because i'm old enough to realize that venality is as tragic as mortality. Every aspect of fulfillment, except enjoyment of my own imagination, in my life has been derailed by the petty improvisations of selfish people. I'd be happy to bet anyone $10,000 they can't find a single soul who'll testify that they treated me better than i treated them, yet i am ultimately alone because i won't cooperate in the delusions of others. Unluckily stuck in this frozen tomb, i get to bear daily witness how bitterness tells all of one's secrets if you get old enough. And it ain't funny no more. Noir enough for you?

 
Ilov80s said:
I think this gets at the unanswerable question of what is noir. If it’s shadows, dark interiors, off kilter angles, etc than Simple Plan ain’t it. If noir is the cynical, the sense of dread, menace, a world corrupted and characters who have lost control of their world and who’s best attempts to control it only seal their fates than I think it’s perfect neo noir.
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A Simple Plan owes as much to noir as it does to another genre of movies I'm going to call "#### happens" where a cascade of improbable problems and poor decisions ensnare the protagonists.  .  Other films of this ilk include The Out of Towners, After Hours, Very Bad Things, Adventures in Babysitting and Date Night.  The Hangover Part III might have killed the genre off temporarily but it will return because #### happens..

 "

 
Eephus said:
A Simple Plan owes as much to noir as it does to another genre of movies I'm going to call "#### happens" where a cascade of improbable problems and poor decisions ensnare the protagonists.  .  Other films of this ilk include The Out of Towners, After Hours, Very Bad Things, Adventures in Babysitting and Date Night.  The Hangover Part III might have killed the genre off temporarily but it will return because #### happens..

 "
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#### happens? They went about murdering people left and right (including each other) to try and protect the fortune they stole. 

 
Eephus said:
A Simple Plan owes as much to noir as it does to another genre of movies I'm going to call "#### happens" where a cascade of improbable problems and poor decisions ensnare the protagonists.  .  Other films of this ilk include The Out of Towners, After Hours, Very Bad Things, Adventures in Babysitting and Date Night.  The Hangover Part III might have killed the genre off temporarily but it will return because #### happens..

 "
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one of my favorite movies and a rough gem from Marty. for me, it's a tone poem and a real difference from madcap misadvantures from others mentioned.

 
Ilov80s said:
#### happens? They went about murdering people left and right (including each other) to try and protect the fortune they stole. 
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OK, it wasn't my strongest take but have you seen Adventures In Babysitting?  It's dark, man  <<<<Gratuitous Sam Raimi reference

 
Eephus said:
OK, it wasn't my strongest take but have you seen Adventures In Babysitting?  It's dark, man  <<<<Gratuitous Sam Raimi reference
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I love Adventures in Babysitting- watched that a ton as a kid. I also appreciate your hot take.

 
saintfool said:
one of my favorite movies and a rough gem from Marty. for me, it's a tone poem and a real difference from madcap misadvantures from others mentioned.
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i lived in SoHo a couple yrs before this was made and thought After Hours to be almost verité

 
wikkidpissah said:
i lived in SoHo a couple yrs before this was made and thought After Hours to be almost verité
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I can easily believe it. I think anyone who lived in NYC when it was still kinda weird and not quite so rich can find a truth in it. I lived in NYC from '95-'04 and this movie speaks to me as if it were mother tongue.

 
Here's an interesting sounding early 2020 release with some film noir and FBG Movie Club connections.  The Burnt Orange Heresy is based on a 1971 novel by the great noir novelist Charles Willeford about conmen in the art world.  Scott B. Smith who wrote A Simple Plan adapted the screenplay and Donald Sutherland appears as a reclusive artist.

 
The screenwriter of The Killing was Jim Thompson.  He was a hard-boiled novelist who wrote some terrific books about desperate characters on the fringes of mid-century American society.  A number of them have been turned into films including The Grifters, The Getaway (twice) and After Dark, My Sweet. 

Thompson's reputation outlived him as new generations of readers discovered his works.  More of his books are in print today than at the time of his death.  I've read a few of his books and recommend them as quick colorful reads.  For me, his dialog worked better on the page than the screen. 

 
Eephus said:
The screenwriter of The Killing was Jim Thompson.  He was a hard-boiled novelist who wrote some terrific books about desperate characters on the fringes of mid-century American society.  A number of them have been turned into films including The Grifters, The Getaway (twice) and After Dark, My Sweet. 

Thompson's reputation outlived him as new generations of readers discovered his works.  More of his books are in print today than at the time of his death.  I've read a few of his books and recommend them as quick colorful reads.  For me, his dialog worked better on the page than the screen. 
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Even as Chandler and Cain go, Thompson is dark as hell. 

 
December Movie Club Double Feature

Tis the season for a new movie month. @KarmaPolice and I wanted to lighten things up a bit. This year we've done depressed vampires, racial tension, oppressive police states and a school bus crash. So to end the year on a bit of a lighter note we are doing our first pair of comedies. And with it being December, we did want to incorporate the holidays. So the theme this month is Holiday-ish Comedies. 

1960: The Apartment 

A man tries to rise in his company by letting its executives use his apartment for trysts, but complications and a romance of his own ensue over the holidays. 

Streaming on Amazon

1979: Monty Python's Life of Brian

Born on the original Christmas in the stable next door to Jesus, Brian of Nazareth spends his life being mistaken for a messiah.

Streaming on Netflix

due 1/6 (extended time due to the holidays)

 
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I wouldn't strain yourself looking for any connecting themes.  :lol:    

We just wanted to keep it light with some "Christmas adjacent" movies that most have probably seen.  

 
I think my copy of The Killing is coming in today, so I hope to watch that over the weekend and maybe add some thoughts.  I think this time around I will 100% make sure that I have access to the movies before the eve of discussion.  

 
Finally got around to The Killing rewatch last night.  I won't argue too much with people saying it's not upper tier Kubrick, but I think it's still a damn fun heist movie.  Love the back and forth between George and Sherry, and I think that alone jumps the movie up a point.  Have a smile on my face all the while Sherry is taking snipes at whoever is around her.  Also love some of the details of the actual heist itself and the additional players they brought in for the distraction as they pulled it off.  

I will fully admit that part of my love for the movie was confirmation bias of my reverence for Kubrick as I see so many other heist films in this movie and getting that lesson that even films I thought were original and ground breaking at the time have been done before.  That was an important lesson for me to learn and to keep in mind as I developed my love of movies.  Obviously Reservoir Dogs comes to mind and is brought up a lot because of the heist gone bad and the chopping up of the time line, but last night I was even getting flashes of The Dark Knight (Johnny's mask) and others.  I am sure somebody smarter than me can point to a movie before this one that used these techniques and visuals too.  

 
KarmaPolice said:
Finally got around to The Killing rewatch last night.  I won't argue too much with people saying it's not upper tier Kubrick, but I think it's still a damn fun heist movie.  Love the back and forth between George and Sherry, and I think that alone jumps the movie up a point.  Have a smile on my face all the while Sherry is taking snipes at whoever is around her.  Also love some of the details of the actual heist itself and the additional players they brought in for the distraction as they pulled it off.  

I will fully admit that part of my love for the movie was confirmation bias of my reverence for Kubrick as I see so many other heist films in this movie and getting that lesson that even films I thought were original and ground breaking at the time have been done before.  That was an important lesson for me to learn and to keep in mind as I developed my love of movies.  Obviously Reservoir Dogs comes to mind and is brought up a lot because of the heist gone bad and the chopping up of the time line, but last night I was even getting flashes of The Dark Knight (Johnny's mask) and others.  I am sure somebody smarter than me can point to a movie before this one that used these techniques and visuals too.  
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Good point about the Kubrick bias. I'm guilty of that too.

 
Posted the usual poll. I am assuming pretty everyone has seen Life of Brian, but a little curious about The Apartment. 

 
Life of Brian is one of those films (Barry Lyndon, Blood Simple, Brazil, Inception probably) i watch every 5 yrs or so hoping i'll like it better because i'm supposed to like it more than i do

The Apartment is the Ur romcom and i look forward to TCM showing it most holiday seasons

 
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wikkidpissah said:
Life of Brian is one of those films (Barry Lyndon, Blood Simple, Brazil, Inception probably) i watch every 5 yrs or so hoping i'll like it better because i'm supposed to like it more than i do

The Apartment is the Ur romcom and i look forward to TCM showing it most holiday seasons
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The romantic comedy seems a very simple genre. There are really only a handful of original films and from there most are copies (not a knock, some of the best are copies). The 3 that jump out to me as the genre defining rom-coms are

It Happened One Night- this gives us the mismatched pair who hate each other at first but the bickering turns to a last minute realization they are in love 

The Apartment- introduced a level of cynicism and loneliness that romantic comedies didn't touch before this film- 50 years later and we still see movies like Silver Linings Playbook trying to replicate the balance of comedy, desire and heartache that The Apartment brings.

Annie Hall-  the romantic comedy becomes meta, timelines get messy and we don't just see how the guy got the girl, but also how he lost the girl

 
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wikkidpissah said:
Life of Brian is one of those films (Barry Lyndon, Blood Simple, Brazil, Inception probably) i watch every 5 yrs or so hoping i'll like it better because i'm supposed to like it more than i do

The Apartment is the Ur romcom and i look forward to TCM showing it most holiday seasons
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I am sad to read that you don't like the movie much, but I am glad that I am not the only weirdo that does the bolded.   I have a handful I keep taking stabs at because they are so widely loved and at the top of lists, but I don't get - mostly would be Coen Brothers, Wes Anderson, and Scorsese movies - specifically O Brother/Lebowski and Goodfellas.  It's looking like Mad Max: Fury Road will be one of these as well.  

 
jdoggydogg said:
I go back and fourth with which is my favorite Python comedy between Holy Grail and Life of Brian. I give the edge to Grail. But still, Brian has some of their best jokes on film. 
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I thought Holy Grail was much more consistently funny while Life of Bryan just had a few highlights.

 
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