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Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Says Republicans are running "their little torture project". Agree? (1 Viewer)

Are Republicans intentionally running a "little torture project"?

  • Absolutely Yes

    Votes: 32 20.4%
  • Probably Yes

    Votes: 26 16.6%
  • On The Fence

    Votes: 8 5.1%
  • Probably No

    Votes: 16 10.2%
  • Absolutely No

    Votes: 75 47.8%

  • Total voters
    157

Joe Bryant

Guide
Staff member
This seemed pretty surprising to me:  

https://twitter.com/theintercept/status/1144623365187080193

"If they want to do that, that’s fine… but they should not be using a humanitarian crisis as a bargaining chip to make sure they pursue their little torture project,”

I think everyone would agree a humanitarian crisis shouldn't be used as a "bargaining chip". But do you think the Republicans are intentionally running a "little torture project"?

 
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She's a sensationalist IMO. She's younger and she knows how to use social media and trigger phrases to draw attention to herself where she can then expand on her thoughts once she has eyes.

As far as the torture project part specifically, I disagree.

 
If this conversation goes anything like the "concentration camp" discussion, it will follow three stages:

1) She didn't mean "torture."  How dare you accuse of her saying that.

2) (A day later) Actually, the term "torture" derives from the lating tortus which means "to twist," so you see . . .

3) (Two days later) ICE is literally torturing children.

 
If this conversation goes anything like the "concentration camp" discussion, it will follow three stages:

1) She didn't mean "torture."  How dare you accuse of her saying that.

2) (A day later) Actually, the term "torture" derives from the lating tortus which means "to twist," so you see . . .

3) (Two days later) ICE is literally torturing children.
I hope not. But you may be right. 

 
I think what seems to get lost in this is how serious an accusation this is.

Accusing a group of people of intentionally pursuing a torture project is big. Obviously even bigger and worse if she's right. 

But if she's not right, that's no small thing. 

 
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I voted probably no.  From my limited understanding of the situation, it sounds like we didn't have the facilities to deal with the influx of asylum seekers that we're currently getting.  Obviously the solution is to increase our capacity to process these folks in a comfortable manner.  The Trump administration could have done better by diverting blankets, cots, hygiene products, etc. from other sources.  And congress can do better by providing funding for what is obviously badly needed infrastructure.  I don't think incendiary takes help anything.

 
Just another example of how extremists  on both sides tend to believe that bad behavior on the other side is deliberate. It’s one of the great distinctions between the centrists and the extremists: we (the centrists) tend to believe that most bad behavior is not the result of intention but instead the result of unintended consequences of faulty idealism. 

 
If this conversation goes anything like the "concentration camp" discussion, it will follow three stages:

1) She didn't mean "torture."  How dare you accuse of her saying that.

2) (A day later) Actually, the term "torture" derives from the lating tortus which means "to twist," so you see . . .

3) (Two days later) ICE is literally torturing children.
:lmao: yep

 
There’s going to be a lot of conservatives here who will agree, correctly, that AOC is full of crap here. Yet when they are faced with a conservative who offers the exact same type of hyperbole about the other side (our President for example,) they are silent or they defend him. 

What we need are more people like Ivan K who are willing to condemn extremism regardless of which side it originates from. 

 
There’s going to be a lot of conservatives here who will agree, correctly, that AOC is full of crap here. Yet when they are faced with a conservative who offers the exact same type of hyperbole about the other side (our President for example,) they are silent or they defend him. 
Agreed - I think everyone agrees we don't want hypocrisy. 

So I'm better understanding you - In your opinion, what would be an equivalent statement from the other side to what AOC is saying here?

 
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There’s going to be a lot of conservatives here who will agree, correctly, that AOC is full of crap here. Yet when they are faced with a conservative who offers the exact same type of hyperbole about the other side (our President for example,) they are silent or they defend him. 

What we need are more people like Ivan K who are willing to condemn extremism regardless of which side it originates from. 
Give us an example of something similar regarding conservatives and comments about torture.

 
I voted probably no.  From my limited understanding of the situation, it sounds like we didn't have the facilities to deal with the influx of asylum seekers that we're currently getting.  Obviously the solution is to increase our capacity to process these folks in a comfortable manner.  The Trump administration could have done better by diverting blankets, cots, hygiene products, etc. from other sources.  And congress can do better by providing funding for what is obviously badly needed infrastructure.  I don't think incendiary takes help anything.
The Trump administration intentionally changed the asylum processing policy, knowing full well we didn’t have the facilities necessary to humanely house these families.  One of the reasons stated for strictly enforcing the policy and increasing child separations was to deter more asylum seekers from Central America. 

I vote yes.  This situation isn’t an accident and was easily foreseen.  And thankfully AOC is calling these horrors what they are, even though it makes white conservative makes uncomfortable.  It’s about damn time folks got uncomfortable.  What’s going on at our borders is inexcusable and a stain on our society.  

 
I think what seems to get lost in this is how serious an accusation this is.

Accusing a group of people of intentionally pursuing a torture project is big. Obviously even bigger and worse if she's right. 

But if she's not right, that's no small thing. 
Well we are less than a week away from being told we are running concentration camps.   That makes the torture project seem like pretty small potatoes.   I used to think her rhetoric was as bad as Trump, but it is actually getting worse than Trump.   I would not thought that was possible. 

 
Trump is trying to put children in dangerous positions in order to scare off parents from trying to come here.  Isnt that obvious?
Children in US custody who are doing nothing more than exercising their human right to seek asylum are DYING, and the outrage on the right is about AOC’s comments.  

Hey guys, if you don’t like being labeled heartless and immoral, maybe start worrying more about children’s lives and less about a freshman House member’s verbiage.  

 
Children in US custody who are doing nothing more than exercising their human right to seek asylum are DYING, and the outrage on the right is about AOC’s comments.  

Hey guys, if you don’t like being labeled heartless and immoral, maybe start worrying more about children’s lives and less about a freshman House member’s verbiage.  
Hey...pay more attention to what people have said here about this. Stop with the crap that Republicans and posters here don’t care about these kids.

 
Hey...pay more attention to what people have said here about this. Stop with the crap that Republicans and posters here don’t care about these kids.
Republicans and their voters, including several posters here, are the reason these kids are being held in these inhumane conditions.  You don’t get to create policies that lead to these situations, and then wash your hands and say you still care about these kids.  Take some responsibility for your actions.  

 
Agreed - I think everyone agrees we don't want hypocrisy. 

So I'm better understanding you - In your opinion, what would be an equivalent statement from the other side to what AOC is saying here?
Sure. Here is Trump calling Democrats treasonous and unamerican: 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/02/05/trump-calls-democrats-un-american-and-treasonous.html

The penalty for treason is of course death. 

Then there is Eric Trump who, after somebody spit on him the other day, said that “this is today’s Democratic Party.” 

Thats just the tip of the iceberg. I could go on and on- Trump calling the media the “enemy of the people”, calling his political opponents criminals, etc etc. 

None of this is representative of how most conservatives think about liberals. AOC’s comments are not representative of how most liberals think about conservatives. These are the extreme and unfortunately they make the news. (And of course, AOC is not the leader of the Democratic Party and hopefully she never will be.) 

 
Republicans and their voters, including several posters here, are the reason these kids are being held in these inhumane conditions.  You don’t get to create policies that lead to these situations, and then wash your hands and say you still care about these kids.  Take some responsibility for your actions.  


Just stop with crap like this. So some posters here are at fault for this?  Did you say anything about the deaths that happened when Obama was President?

https://americanmilitarynews.com/2019/06/us-mexico-border-deaths-lower-under-trump-than-obama-data-shows/

 
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Sure. Here is Trump calling Democrats treasonous and unamerican: 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/02/05/trump-calls-democrats-un-american-and-treasonous.html

The penalty for treason is of course death. 

Then there is Eric Trump who, after somebody spit on him the other day, said that “this is today’s Democratic Party.” 

Thats just the tip of the iceberg. I could go on and on- Trump calling the media the “enemy of the people”, calling his political opponents criminals, etc etc. 

None of this is representative of how most conservatives think about liberals. AOC’s comments are not representative of how most liberals think about conservatives. These are the extreme and unfortunately they make the news. (And of course, AOC is not the leader of the Democratic Party and hopefully she never will be.) 
Are you saying AOC is as outrageous as Trump? 

 
Sounds like he’s talking about MS-13 members.
Yes. It’s funny how every time he mentions undocumented immigrants, he just happens to bring up MS-13 members in the same sentence. 

But hey you want to defend him? Be my guest. I’m not defending AOC. You go right on ahead though. 

 
Yes. It’s funny how every time he mentions undocumented immigrants, he just happens to bring up MS-13 members in the same sentence. 

But hey you want to defend him? Be my guest. I’m not defending AOC. You go right on ahead though. 
It is not a defense.   But when you mischaracterize what Trump says, you lose credibility and it plays into Trump's hand. 

 
  They are defending and endorsing (Trump supporters, Trump lawyers, some Republicans, Trump talking heads) how they are being run. They're running them. To that... they're all but admitting what it going on there is intentional. 

As to whether or not they're "torturing" children.....sure, a case could be made for that.

 
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It is not a defense.   But when you mischaracterize what Trump says, you lose credibility and it plays into Trump's hand. 
I didn’t do that. And I can’t believe anyone at this point would challenge the fact that Donald Trump is a bigot when it comes to undocumented immigrants. It’s ridiculous that I even have to offer examples at all. 

 
Just absurd.  I’m more convinced than ever that AOC is actually a Republican plant to make the Democrats look ridiculous.  Change my mind. 
I didn't like her much at first...

I think she's a legit spark that the Democrats need.   To that, I think there will be a point during this cycle where she will need to take a back burner.....but not right now and not on this issue. 

 
I’ll repeat the quesion:  Why are you referencing “border deaths” in a discussion about children dying while in US custody?  
Because no one showed any concern about deaths happening with illegal immigration under Obama. You reached a new low to blame posters here for what’s going on. 

 
USA: You don't have any rights here

Activists allege widespread mistreatment of sick, hungry migrant children

Doctors Without Borders MSF alarmed by reports of horrific conditions for migrants

people have described being held in frigid conditions in CBP holding cells known as hieleras, or iceboxes, with the lights on at all times, and without adequate access to food, water, hygiene supplies, and medical care. Some suffer from chronic diseases, such as hypertension, HIV, or diabetes, but are often repatriated without medication. In addition, US authorities are deporting people to dangerous border cities late at night, putting 
 An Expert on Concentration Camps Says That's Exactly What the U.S. Is Running at the Border

Sexual Assault Of Detained Migrant Children Reported In The Thousands Since 2015

Asylum seekers are being sexually assaulted in U.S. detention

Trump administration cancels English classes, soccer, legal aid for unaccompanied child migrants in U.S. shelters

Trump orders officials to charge fees for asylum seekers fleeing persecution

No, I don't think she has been off the mark with her statements. I think a better question is how can Trump supporters can condone this?

 
I didn’t do that. And I can’t believe anyone at this point would challenge the fact that Donald Trump is a bigot when it comes to undocumented immigrants. It’s ridiculous that I even have to offer examples at all. 
You seem intent on debating whether Trump is a bigot when no one is debating that.   It was simply pointed Trump called M-13 members animals, not undocumented workers as you stated.   If you want to make the case Trump is a bigot, you should stick to accurate quotes.  

 
Show us where Trump supporters condone this. Stop with this crap.
If you support Trump, you support this. He denigrated and dehumanized these people for two years on the campaign trail and his entire presidency.  "I'm going to build a wall and Mexico is going pay for it". That was his main message. He's doing exactly what he said he would do. What he was elected to do. Look in the mirror, don't curse at me. 

 
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The problem with almost all of these comments is the same as AOC- they assume that it’s all deliberate. I get that some people think this but it’s hard to prove and unless and until somebody proves it, I don’t accept it.

As for Trump supporters, @John BlutarskyIs absolutely right. If you’re going to charge them with being for torture, you’d better offer proof. 

 
The problem with almost all of these comments is the same as AOC- they assume that it’s all deliberate. I get that some people think this but it’s hard to prove and unless and until somebody proves it, I don’t accept it.

As for Trump supporters, @John BlutarskyIs absolutely right. If you’re going to charge them with being for torture, you’d better offer proof. 
Just like ignorance, carelessness isn't an excuse. 

ETA As for Blutarsky, see my reply above. 

 
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