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Joe Bryant

Legal Landscape For Tyreek Hill - 7.8.19

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Footballguys Staffer Drew Davenport dives deep into the legal landscape for Tyreek Hill. Drew has 17 years of experience in Criminal Defense and dealing with child abuse, neglect, and the Department of Children’s Services.

https://subscribers.footballguys.com/apps/article.php?article=2019-tyreek-hill-legal-landscape-before-training-camp

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9 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

Footballguys Staffer Drew Davenport dives deep into the legal landscape for Tyreek Hill. Drew has 17 years of experience in Criminal Defense and dealing with child abuse, neglect, and the Department of Children’s Services.

https://subscribers.footballguys.com/apps/article.php?article=2019-tyreek-hill-legal-landscape-before-training-camp

It's a solid article and basically says right now it looks like 4 games reduced to 2. 

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7 minutes ago, Milkman said:

It's a solid article and basically says right now it looks like 4 games reduced to 2. 

not all heroes wear capes

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1 hour ago, Milkman said:

It's a solid article and basically says right now it looks like 4 games reduced to 2. 

4 games after he serves the first 4, or...?

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The article puts a bow on basically all of the things that have been discussed in this forum and other outlets....based on the limited information we all have.....KC radio guys hint they have heard from higher ups with the Chiefs that the outcome could be very positive for Hill.....so all kinds of speculation still out there....we’ll see...

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I think I saw earlier in the other Hill thread that one of the Ravens had been suspended for 4 games for threatening violence against a woman.  He got 4 games.  I don't think he had the previous offense that Hills has, which still counts to the league even if he wasn't an NFL player.  With that recording a min of 4 games at least.  It likely will be 6-8 with his record.  At that is if he only has the recording as the only evidence against him. If scenario 2 happens he is gone for the year.  Real thing to think about is RG is unpredictable and does things as he sees fit for good or bad.  The CBA gives him the right to do that.  Dynasty you should be selling now unless you can take the risk involved now and in the future.  For redraft he could be back for the playoffs.

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1 hour ago, Stinkin Ref said:

The article puts a bow on basically all of the things that have been discussed in this forum and other outlets....based on the limited information we all have.....KC radio guys hint they have heard from higher ups with the Chiefs that the outcome could be very positive for Hill.....so all kinds of speculation still out there....we’ll see...

The tape recording was played to the NFL investigators and that really was a big plus in Hill’s case.  The public has never heard the full tape recording, some reports are that the released audio had even been spliced.  We will find out soon enough.  If Hill gets a small suspension or none at all, the full version of the tape would be the reason why.   It’s ironic that the audio that makes Tyreek look so bad, ends up being a blessing. 

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Oh, I see that FFAuctionXpert is quickly backpedaling from his June 18th tweets where he was saying, and I'm gonna quote here "my money as a defense attorney is on Hill sitting out a full year while licking the NFL’s boots to prove he cares and deserves another shot".

https://twitter.com/FFAuctionXpert/status/1141062318211698688

Funny.

Edited by Young 8
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5 hours ago, Young 8 said:

Oh, I see that FFAuctionXpert is quickly backpedaling from his June 18th tweets where he was saying, and I'm gonna quote here "my money as a defense attorney is on Hill sitting out a full year while licking the NFL’s boots to prove he cares and deserves another shot".

https://twitter.com/FFAuctionXpert/status/1141062318211698688

Funny.

First thing. There's not much "funny" about any of this.

Secondly, probably best to use the full quote from June 18:

Quote

There’s just too many unknowns right now to say for sure, but I don’t see #Hill playing a full season under any circumstance. Further, my money as a defense attorney is on Hill sitting out a full year while licking the NFL’s boots to prove he cares and deserves another shot 19/

And for sure, this is a quickly moving situation.

After Hill met with NFL's senior VP of Special Counsel for Investigations, and other league officials twelve days after the above tweet, Davenport took that new and obviously valuable information and updated his opinion. I'd hope we all do that when we get new information.

There's also a good bit of thought out there that Hill won't see any suspension at all. https://twitter.com/RealBBQSports/status/1148288412576899082

It's still very much a moving target. 

Fortunately, a lot of people aren't drafting today. If you are drafting or dealing today, I'm leaning with Drew on this and it being a 2-4 game suspension.

From the Footballguys article:

Quote

 

In the end, if the evidence he turned over was topical and exculpatory then it’s a massive boon to his chances of playing most of the season. If not, he’s back to where he was after this incident happened with a very uncertain future.

Based on the observations laid down in this article, the chances are strong that as of early July, the outcome will be one of the following hypothetical scenarios:

Scenario 1 – There is no evidence of Hill being responsible for the child’s injuries. The league doesn’t find much in the way of opinions that Hill was involved. The evidence Hill turned over was helpful and topical. In this scenario, the suspension will be short, perhaps four games, but as low as two. There is almost no chance Hill escapes suspension because the optics in the situation are simply too poor for the league and have been since the story broke in March. That fact, coupled with Hill’s prior violent conviction would point to the two- to four-game range.

Scenario 2 – There is no evidence of Hill being responsible for the child’s injuries. Goodell’s team concludes their investigation with the belief that Hill is still violent and may have been involved despite there being no concrete evidence. During Hill’s eight-hour meeting with the league, Hill showed signs of deceit. The evidence turned over to the league was not sufficient or topical. In this situation, it is somewhat likely that Hill will miss the entire season.

Scenario 3 – There is evidence that Hill played a part in the child’s injuries and remains a threat to the child and/or to Espinal. This would result in him being suspended for the year, and it’s possible that the league would use an indefinite suspension whereby Hill would have to apply for reinstatement at a later date. This would require Hill to prove to the league that he’s taken steps to correct his behavior and would likely require some admission of wrongdoing or at least some contrition.

As of 3 weeks ago, the likelihood of Scenario 2 or 3 was much stronger than it stands today. The meeting with the National Football League, the cooperation narrative, and the Chiefs’ optimism point more to Scenario 1 right now. The odds of Scenario 1 are -- like anything in fantasy football -- not certain, but probably somewhere around 75% given what is available for consumption at the moment.

The problem is that there is no indication that Hill is a changed man. All one needs to do is listen to that phone call between him and Espinal to see that. It is likely that Goodell and his team, and anyone who has worked with him through this case, will see that too. That is why Scenario 2 has a very real chance of still occurring. This analyst certainly feels more confident that Hill will play most of the season today than in mid-June, but with his prior violent tendencies it is all but certain that there will be problems in the future unless there is evidence of his embracing change. Proceed accordingly.

 

 

Edited by Joe Bryant
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9 hours ago, Stinkin Ref said:

The article puts a bow on basically all of the things that have been discussed in this forum and other outlets....based on the limited information we all have.....KC radio guys hint they have heard from higher ups with the Chiefs that the outcome could be very positive for Hill.....so all kinds of speculation still out there....we’ll see...

Agreed.

I'm especially intrigued by the KC radio guys on this. I have to be honest and say I don't know them well. It's generally dangerous to expect local sports radio to be completely objective, but on the other hand, many of those folks also have closer connections. Watching this one closely. 

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I've also reached out to Tim Grunhard at 810 sports too. Will let you know if he gets back to us. 

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50 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

I've also reached out to Tim Grunhard at 810 sports too. Will let you know if he gets back to us. 

Good work Joe. 

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The week before the 4th of July seemed optimistic that the NFL was going to announce a 2-6 week suspension during the holiday weekend. As time passes do we see this as as him getting more or less games?

if we are predicting when the NFL hands judgement, are we anticipating end of July before training camp?

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1 minute ago, Gottabesweet said:

The week before the 4th of July seemed optimistic that the NFL was going to announce a 2-6 week suspension during the holiday weekend. As time passes do we see this as as him getting more or less games?

if we are predicting when the NFL hands judgement, are we anticipating end of July before training camp?

I would hope for sure we'd have something before camp. But that's one of the most maddening things. It seems like the timing on when they release things doesn't make sense. Or at the very least, it's not helpful for us Fantasy Football GMs. Which we all know is the most important thing... ;)

 

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13 hours ago, Milkman said:

It's a solid article and basically says right now it looks like 4 games reduced to 2. 

No, it doesn't.  It says, in the author's opinion, that scenario 1 is much more likely than it was several weeks ago.  Scenario 1 is a short suspension, probably 4 games, perhaps as low as 2.  Nowhere does it say a reduction to 2.  You're adding that part in.  IMO, it is much more likely that IF Hill gets a short suspension, he'd have to agree to accept it, not appeal (much as Hunt accepted his suspension, rather than appealing it).

Furthermore, the author goes on to state that scenario 2 (missing the entire 2019 season) is "somewhat likely," and has a "very real chance of still occurring," based on the fact that Goodell wants the players to admit what they've done and change their behavior.  Hill hasn't done that, and his phone conversation shows that he obviously hasn't changed (as pointed out in the article).

It is abundantly clear that you believe Hill will get off, relatively unscathed, from his current situation.  You may very well be right, but you don't need to try to manipulate information to support your viewpoint.

 

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So it seems that the author believes scenario one is most likely, with Hill receiving a suspension because of the optics of the recording where he says Espinal should be terrified of him, too.

IF, and only IF, Hill has a plausible explanation for that comment, and it can be attributed to his anger and frustration with her sabotaging his contract negotiations or her family trying to extort him (both of which have been floated as rumors) AND there is some evidence of this, there is a chance, in my opinion, that he gets no suspension. That could be bolstered IF the police are investigating Espinal on such charges, which of course we don't know, which leads me back to what I've said repeatedly:

We don't know what we don't know.

 

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1 hour ago, Bayhawks said:

No, it doesn't.  It says, in the author's opinion, that scenario 1 is much more likely than it was several weeks ago.  Scenario 1 is a short suspension, probably 4 games, perhaps as low as 2.  Nowhere does it say a reduction to 2.  You're adding that part in.  IMO, it is much more likely that IF Hill gets a short suspension, he'd have to agree to accept it, not appeal (much as Hunt accepted his suspension, rather than appealing it).

Furthermore, the author goes on to state that scenario 2 (missing the entire 2019 season) is "somewhat likely," and has a "very real chance of still occurring," based on the fact that Goodell wants the players to admit what they've done and change their behavior.  Hill hasn't done that, and his phone conversation shows that he obviously hasn't changed (as pointed out in the article).

It is abundantly clear that you believe Hill will get off, relatively unscathed, from his current situation.  You may very well be right, but you don't need to try to manipulate information to support your viewpoint.

 

I'm not sure the bolded is fair....there are no indications that he is physically abusing the mother anymore....and he has denied ever abusing  the child....

to me, RG's interpretation of the entire phone call is the biggest thing that comes into play here......we have to remember this was a pre planned recorded call where the person recording has an agenda.....the mother has admitted to trying to shame Hill and make him look bad....she was recording hoping to get something on him that she could use against him (to make him look bad/shame him)....she was driving the bus that day and was probably trying to push his buttons to get him to say something......the mother is the one that said "he is terrified of you"....we have no idea if that is true or not, the child may not be terrified of Hill...Hill makes comments in that phone call like "this is unbelievable, etc."... and he immediately talks about respect not fear.....Hill's comment of "you need to be terrified of me too" may not have been a physical threat, but in different context could have meant "I have dirt on you that I can spill, you need to be scared of that".....we have to remember the text messages where the mother admits to abusing the child and trying to make Hill look bad.....there is a scenario here where the context of Hill's comment didn't mean a threat of physical violence....there was a lot of dysfunction here, both ways...lots of game playing, jockeying for position in the relationship, etc...lot of things that we don't know anything about, but RG and the NFL were maybe able to see/confirm in their investigation and interviews....

Edited by Stinkin Ref
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3 hours ago, Joe Bryant said:

After Hill met with Goodell twelve days after the above tweet

He never met with Goodell.

Edited by Young 8

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31 minutes ago, Young 8 said:

He never met with Goodell.

Correct. Fixed above. Hill met with NFL's senior VP of Special Counsel for Investigations, and other league officials per NFL.com

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1 hour ago, Bayhawks said:

No, it doesn't.  It says, in the author's opinion, that scenario 1 is much more likely than it was several weeks ago.  Scenario 1 is a short suspension, probably 4 games, perhaps as low as 2.  Nowhere does it say a reduction to 2.  You're adding that part in.  IMO, it is much more likely that IF Hill gets a short suspension, he'd have to agree to accept it, not appeal (much as Hunt accepted his suspension, rather than appealing it).

Furthermore, the author goes on to state that scenario 2 (missing the entire 2019 season) is "somewhat likely," and has a "very real chance of still occurring," based on the fact that Goodell wants the players to admit what they've done and change their behavior.  Hill hasn't done that, and his phone conversation shows that he obviously hasn't changed (as pointed out in the article).

It is abundantly clear that you believe Hill will get off, relatively unscathed, from his current situation.  You may very well be right, but you don't need to try to manipulate information to support your viewpoint.

 

Yeah I did add that. I read it somewhere else and got it mixed up. Your reaction to that doesn't fit my crime. All indications point to it being a lot less of a suspension than most people thought a month ago. Of course something else could come out and bury Tyreek but at this time it looks like everybody that came out on the internet where they can act like they are perfect themselves incorrectly convicted Tyreek before all the info was out. 

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1 hour ago, Stinkin Ref said:

I'm not sure the bolded is fair....there are no indications that he is physically abusing the mother anymore....and he has denied ever abusing  the child....

to me, RG's interpretation of the entire phone call is the biggest thing that comes into play here......we have to remember this was a pre planned recorded call where the person recording has an agenda.....the mother has admitted to trying to shame Hill and make him look bad....she was recording hoping to get something on him that she could use against him (to make him look bad/shame him)....she was driving the bus that day and was probably trying to push his buttons to get him to say something......the mother is the one that said "he is terrified of you"....we have no idea if that is true or not, the child may not be terrified of Hill...Hill makes comments in that phone call like "this is unbelievable, etc."... and he immediately talks about respect not fear.....Hill's comment of "you need to be terrified of me too" may not have been a physical threat, but in different context could have meant "I have dirt on you that I can spill, you need to be scared of that".....we have to remember the text messages where the mother admits to abusing the child and trying to make Hill look bad.....there is a scenario here where the context of Hill's comment didn't mean a threat of physical violence....there was a lot of dysfunction here, both ways...lots of game playing, jockeying for position in the relationship, etc...lot of things that we don't know anything about, but RG and the NFL were maybe able to see/confirm in their investigation and interviews....

I was pointing out a note made in the FBG article (about how Goodell might view the phone recording) that milkman comveniently ignored.  I wasn’t commenting on the “fairness” of that point.

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20 minutes ago, Milkman said:

Yeah I did add that. I read it somewhere else and got it mixed up. Your reaction to that doesn't fit my crime. All indications point to it being a lot less of a suspension than most people thought a month ago. Of course something else could come out and bury Tyreek but at this time it looks like everybody that came out on the internet where they can act like they are perfect themselves incorrectly convicted Tyreek before all the info was out. 

No worries. There's been a lot of prediction going on. And as information comes out, the prediction changes.

@Milkman - as of today, what do you think is the most likely scenario for how many, if any games Hill winds up being suspended for this year?

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20 minutes ago, Milkman said:

Yeah I did add that. I read it somewhere else and got it mixed up. Your reaction to that doesn't fit my crime. All indications point to it being a lot less of a suspension than most people thought a month ago. Of course something else could come out and bury Tyreek but at this time it looks like everybody that came out on the internet where they can act like they are perfect themselves incorrectly convicted Tyreek before all the info was out. 

And you are incorrectly exonerating him before the info is all out.  We don’t know how the meeting with Goodell went, or what info he gave him.  You are picking and choosing what facts you will accept, AND how they will be interpreted, at the same times as you are blaming others who did the same thing earlier.

Again, maybe Hill will get a 2 game suspension.  Maybe he will get a left time ban.  If you want to criticizes others for jumping to 1 conclusion without all info, perhaps you shouldn’t jump to the other conclusion without all the info?

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21 minutes ago, Bayhawks said:

And you are incorrectly exonerating him before the info is all out.  We don’t know how the meeting with Goodell went, or what info he gave him.  You are picking and choosing what facts you will accept, AND how they will be interpreted, at the same times as you are blaming others who did the same thing earlier.

Again, maybe Hill will get a 2 game suspension.  Maybe he will get a left time ban.  If you want to criticizes others for jumping to 1 conclusion without all info, perhaps you shouldn’t jump to the other conclusion without all the info?

I'm not going to get dragged into this by you buddy. You are making my experience here not very enjoyable. I'll just put you on ignore sir and you can continue to preach to everyone that wants to read your rants. No offense but I am not one of them. 

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Please keep this 100% to football.

If you're tying something and it's at all about another poster instead of football, please don't post it. 

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43 minutes ago, Bayhawks said:

And you are incorrectly exonerating him before the info is all out.  We don’t know how the meeting with Goodell went, or what info he gave him.  You are picking and choosing what facts you will accept, AND how they will be interpreted, at the same times as you are blaming others who did the same thing earlier.

Again, maybe Hill will get a 2 game suspension.  Maybe he will get a left time ban.  If you want to criticizes others for jumping to 1 conclusion without all info, perhaps you shouldn’t jump to the other conclusion without all the info?

exonerating him from what exactly.....he hasn't even been accused or charged with anything......

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6 minutes ago, Stinkin Ref said:

exonerating him from what exactly.....he hasn't even been accused or charged with anything......

And dishonest responses like this is why other people end up getting kicked out of the forum and you are left here to continue.

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36 minutes ago, Milkman said:

I'm not going to get dragged into this by you buddy. You are making my experience here not very enjoyable. I'll just put you on ignore sir and you can continue to preach to everyone that wants to read your rants. No offense but I am not one of them. 

That is, of course, your prerogative.

The facts are that anyone who claims to know what will happen, is lying.  We are speculating.  The FBG article, while well-written, offers the authors’ speciation on what could happen.  

When one allows his/her personal biases, FF ownership, team affiliation, etc to influence the way they view facts, those speculations can become invalid.

Barring any further information coming out, I’d expect st least a 6 game suspension.  

1-Thr NFL’s DV policy specified that RG doesn’t need proof or a criminal conviction to punish players involved on DV situations.  It also specifies 6 games as a 1st time punishment.  Hill, technically, isn’t a first time offender, as the NFL “counts” what happened before he was drafted.  So, a 6 game ban would “technically” count as RG being lenient.

2-The courts have ruled, repeatedly, that the commish can levy these punishments when he feels like it, regardless of science (deflate-gate), lack of real evidence (Zeke), etc.

3-For the NFL, the appearance of “bad acts” is, possibly, more important than the actual bad act.  Ray Rice got off relatively easy, till the video came out.  Kareem Hunt wasn’t punished, at all, until the video came out.  The phone recording is out there & makes Hill look bad, regardless of the gf’s intent behind it.  If there was editing of the cal that makes Hill look better, as some have claimed, Hill’s people wouldn’t keep that a secret, it’d be made public.  The fact that it hasn’t must cause you to question it.

4-So, just based on the actual info available, AND RG’s history in these situations, a (minimum) 6 game suspension seems likely.

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1 minute ago, voiceofunreason said:

And dishonest responses like this is why other people end up getting kicked out of the forum and you are left here to continue.

 

9 minutes ago, Stinkin Ref said:

exonerating him from what exactly.....he hasn't even been accused or charged with anything......

Well, he hasn't been charged with anything. Investigators determined early on that neither Hill or Espinal were responsible for the child's broken arm. The investigation was reopened after Espinal allegedly had a third party falsely report that Hill broke his son's arm. It may turn out that one or both parents were too heavy-handed in disciplining the child. As of now, that may be very well why the child was removed from their home and they are working through the process to be reunited. We just don't know.

The recording is damning, especially with his history. Without knowing what Hill gave NFL investigators, or what the status of any investigations directly or indirectly related to the case, makes it hard to determine what is honest, dishonest, fact, conjecture...we just have to wait and see.

I said earlier I thought he'd get four reduced to two, but now am leaning one or none.

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I don't believe a defense attorney (or anybody else) can provide actionable insight into the number of games Hill will or won't be suspended.  Goodell and the NFL largely make it up as they go along, later providing rational that fits the punishment they decide to give.

That said, the negative publicity of this case makes a 4 game suspension seem like the best case scenario for Hill's NFL career.  Anything less than that would be a big surprise.  However, the lack of transparency in these cases makes almost anything possible.

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3 minutes ago, JamieMurphy said:

 

Well, he hasn't been charged with anything. Investigators determined early on that neither Hill or Espinal were responsible for the child's broken arm. The investigation was reopened after Espinal allegedly had a third party falsely report that Hill broke his son's arm. It may turn out that one or both parents were too heavy-handed in disciplining the child. As of now, that may be very well why the child was removed from their home and they are working through the process to be reunited. We just don't know.

The recording is damning, especially with his history. Without knowing what Hill gave NFL investigators, or what the status of any investigations directly or indirectly related to the case, makes it hard to determine what is honest, dishonest, fact, conjecture...we just have to wait and see.

I said earlier I thought he'd get four reduced to two, but now am leaning one or none.

I’m pretty sure the term exonerating was clear in its meaning.  We are on a FF message board, discussing Hill’s FF outlook, and possible suspension.  If someone had say, “you’re convicting him with no evidence” if another poster said he should be banned for life, we would all know the term convicted wasn’t actually implying a legal conviction.  In the same way, my use of the term exonerate was used, in regards to how much of a suspension he deserved.

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13 minutes ago, trader jake said:

I don't believe a defense attorney (or anybody else) can provide actionable insight into the number of games Hill will or won't be suspended.  Goodell and the NFL largely make it up as they go along, later providing rational that fits the punishment they decide to give.

That said, the negative publicity of this case makes a 4 game suspension seem like the best case scenario for Hill's NFL career.  Anything less than that would be a big surprise.  However, the lack of transparency in these cases makes almost anything possible.

I don't disagree this is tough to predict. But that's exactly what we're trying to do here. 

If you're not drafting or dealing any players, this can be purely theoretical.

I have a ton of customers who are drafting and dealing players and they need to know what we think. We don't have the luxury of :shrug: Although I wish we did. ;)

That's why for us, we have to make a call. For now, I'm saying missing 2-4 games. Hopefully we'll have clarity on it soon.

For everyone else here, please let's keep the discussion 100% to what we think will happen with Hill and the NFL.

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3 minutes ago, Bayhawks said:

I’m pretty sure the term exonerating was clear in its meaning.  We are on a FF message board, discussing Hill’s FF outlook, and possible suspension.  If someone had say, “you’re convicting him with no evidence” if another poster said he should be banned for life, we would all know the term convicted wasn’t actually implying a legal conviction.  In the same way, my use of the term exonerate was used, in regards to how much of a suspension he deserved.

Using exonerated or convicted in this situation probably aren't the best descriptors because we are dealing with two different entities, the law and the NFL.

Assuming no new information or situations arise, it does not appear Hill will face any legal charges. If that is the case, then the suspension is based solely on Hill's taped comments and Goodell's need to protect the league from embarrassment. There may be mitigating circumstances that explain his comments.

As far as people getting banned from the message boards, I look at it this way: we're all guests in the FBG virtual living room. It has been asked of us, as guests, to keep it on football. I think we're all capable of presenting our points of view without going after others personally, even when we disagree. I kind of like civil discourse.

 

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@Milkman - as of today, what do you think is the most likely scenario for how many, if any games Hill winds up being suspended for this year?

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13 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

I have a ton of customers who are drafting and dealing players and they need to know what we think. We don't have the luxury of :shrug: Although I wish we did. ;)

That's why for us, we have to make a call. For now, I'm saying missing 2-4 games. Hopefully we'll have clarity on it soon.

Gotcha. The NFL negotiates with Hill and his agent and he accepts a 6-8 game suspension without appeal.  Maybe the suspension ends up being in your 2-4 game range, but with Hill's history, a kid's broken arm, and that audio I just don't see them announcing anything less than 4.

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1 minute ago, trader jake said:

Gotcha. The NFL negotiates with Hill and his agent and he accepts a 6-8 game suspension without appeal.  Maybe the suspension ends up being in your 2-4 game range, but with Hill's history, a kid's broken arm, and that audio I just don't see them announcing anything less than 4.

I can see that too. This is one of those "cases" where we have to remember this isn't about "justice". This is about "protecting the shield". It's a perception issue. And the perception is this looks (and sounds) bad. On the other hand, the league has to balance the perception they're seen by the players as the crazy dad that hands down severe punishments willy nilly. That's not a good look either. Especially with labor talks on the horizon.

So it's tricky. 

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4 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

@Milkman - as of today, what do you think is the most likely scenario for how many, if any games Hill winds up being suspended for this year?

My source said he was safe from suspension before the recording. Admittedly I was shook after that recording, not knowing that it had been heavily edited, and posted that he was in trouble now. After more info I'm thinking my original source was right and he was looking at zero games until that doctored recording. Now I'd say 4 games max but Tyreek and everybody in the KC organization sure does seem relieved or even happy.......makes me think 2 games with possibly no suspension.

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10 minutes ago, Milkman said:

My source said he was safe from suspension before the recording. Admittedly I was shook after that recording, not knowing that it had been heavily edited, and posted that he was in trouble now. After more info I'm thinking my original source was right and he was looking at zero games until that doctored recording. Now I'd say 4 games max but Tyreek and everybody in the KC organization sure does seem relieved or even happy.......makes me think 2 games with possibly no suspension.

Thanks. 

Who is your source?

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After watching that Disneyland clip and seeing that guy actually beat up women on video these stories seem to take new life.

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it is still entirely possible that Hill hasn't done anything wrong in terms of DV and/or child abuse (this time).....I know people don't want to actually break it down like that...but it's true....he very well could have done nothing here physically....so IMO any type of suspension handed down would be the NFL thinking he did something....

he is not a multi time offender as I am not sure what his "offense" is here....is his "offense" this time bringing bad publicity.....is it an "offense" to have your child temporarily removed from your custody?....is it an "offense" to be in a toxic dysfunctional relationship...?....an environment that needed work and removing the child temporarily was part of that...?....I guess in RG's world those could count as an "offense" and violation of policy...and that's all that matters.....but if he able to explain the context of the comment in the phone call as a threat about spilling the dirt on her as opposed to actually being physically afraid of him, then does that still count as an offense?...he may not have had the skills to know how appropriately respond when someone is trying to set you up/shame you...

there is also the other possible side of this.....lots of dads (moms too)....get wrongfully accused of things all the time in domestic situations....when they have done nothing.....if Hill has been going through this (which she admits that she did to him)...it would kind of send a bad message to suspend somebody that was being wrongfully accused/set up/shamed.....so I don't think this is an easy "Hey Team Tyreek.....take the 4 game suspension for the good of the shield, even though you didn't do anything" type of situation...a token 1-4 game suspension seems weak sauce to me in this situation....either you think he did something or you don't....this isn't deflating footballs.....if Tyreek didn't do anything and was being set up here the whole time....the NFL could send a message there too.....because sometimes their players get set up/taken advantage of .....I've said from the beginning, I have no idea what happened or didn't happen....always just wanted to wait for details before passing judgement...and let the process play out...we still don't know all the details and if Hill really did something I hope he gets suspended, etc.....and I hope he and his family continue to get the help they need....

Edited by Stinkin Ref

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Wow, a local radio station just played the full audio, really makes Tyreek look a lot better than the part the media let us hear originally.

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30 minutes ago, Stinkin Ref said:

it is still entirely possible that Hill hasn't done anything wrong in terms of DV and/or child abuse (this time).....I know people don't want to actually break it down like that...but it's true....he very well could have done nothing here physically....so IMO any type of suspension handed down would be the NFL thinking he did something....

he is not a multi time offender as I am not sure what his "offense" is here....is his "offense" this time bringing bad publicity.....is it an "offense" to have your child temporarily removed from your custody?....is it an "offense" to be in a toxic dysfunctional relationship...?....an environment that needed work and removing the child temporarily was part of that...?....I guess in RG's world those could count as an "offense" and violation of policy...and that's all that matters.....but if he able to explain the context of the comment in the phone call as a threat about spilling the dirt on her as opposed to actually being physically afraid of him, then does that still count as an offense?...he may not have had the skills to know how appropriately respond when someone is trying to set you up/shame you...

there is also the other possible side of this.....lots of dads (moms too)....get wrongfully accused of things all the time in domestic situations....when they have done nothing.....if Hill has been going through this (which she admits that she did to him)...it would kind of send a bad message to suspend somebody that was being wrongfully accused/set up/shamed.....so I don't think this is an easy "Hey Team Tyreek.....take the 4 game suspension for the good of the shield, even though you didn't do anything" type of situation...a token 1-4 game suspension seems weak sauce to me in this situation....either you think he did something or you don't....this isn't deflating footballs.....if Tyreek didn't do anything and was being set up here the whole time....the NFL could send a message there too.....because sometimes their players get set up/taken advantage of .....I've said from the beginning, I have no idea what happened or didn't happen....always just wanted to wait for details before passing judgement...and let the process play out...we still don't know all the details and if Hill really did something I hope he gets suspended, etc.....and I hope he and his family continue to get the help they need....

He IS a multi-time offender, no matter how one tries to explain away the phone call.  He is either physically threatening her (which violates the policy), or is emotionally threatening her (which violates the policy), or is threatening to “spill the dirt” on her, which is blackmail, and is a violation of the policy.  So, yes, according to the policy, this is his second (multiple offense).  

As as far as “Team Tyreek” taking one for the good of the shield, they won’t have a choice,  The CBA says RG can punish courts have affirmed that RG can punish him, and RG has shown that he will punish him, even without any real proof of wrong-doing, for the “good of the shield.l

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8 minutes ago, Bayhawks said:

He IS a multi-time offender, no matter how one tries to explain away the phone call.  He is either physically threatening her (which violates the policy), or is emotionally threatening her (which violates the policy), or is threatening to “spill the dirt” on her, which is blackmail, and is a violation of the policy.  So, yes, according to the policy, this is his second (multiple offense).  

As as far as “Team Tyreek” taking one for the good of the shield, they won’t have a choice,  The CBA says RG can punish courts have affirmed that RG can punish him, and RG has shown that he will punish him, even without any real proof of wrong-doing, for the “good of the shield.l

????....I must not know the definition of blackmail or I missed the part of the phone call with his demands.....

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3 minutes ago, HULLOBUDMAN said:

the one comment I was hoping they would quote in full was the he is terrified of you.  You should be terrified of me too, B.  

This article was good in gaining clarity in the areas the first audio may have been cut short in.

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3 minutes ago, smbkrypt24 said:

the one comment I was hoping they would quote in full was the he is terrified of you.  You should be terrified of me too, B.  

This article was good in gaining clarity in the areas the first audio may have been cut short in.

This from another article on Yahoo. Interesting that he would bring up and deny the original incident with her when it was an unknown recording.

Florio on ProFootball Talk is spinning it that NFL and the public will take this as he still has no remorse. 

Lots of interesting takes.

 

Chiefs wide receiver Tyreek Hill pleaded guilty to domestic assault and battery by strangulation after a 2014 incident with Crystal Espinal, who was then pregnant with his son. But in a recorded conversation with Espinal, Hill denied the incident and accused Espinal of lying.

After their son suffered a broken arm this year, authorities launched a child abuse investigation. No charges were filed, but Hill faced renewed scrutiny over the incident, as well as the recorded conversation, in which Espinal said their son was terrified of him and Hill replied, “You need to be terrified of me too, #####.” Now a fuller version of that recording has been published by 610 Sports in Kansas City, and Hill shows no remorse over the 2014 incident.

“You f–king ruined my life and you lied on me in 2014. I’m still not over that. I didn’t touch you in 2014,” Hill told Espinal. “You lied on me in 2014. If you want to rewind that night, we can rewind that night, too. You was in my house. And did I pick you up and slam you? Hell no. I picked you up and put you out.”

Espinal then asked, “Where did the bruises come from, Tyreek?” Hill did not answer.

Espinal also said, “You had your hand around my neck,” to which Hill replied, “No, I did not.”

Hill has rarely spoken of the 2014 incident, although in 2016 he said that people “have every right to be mad at me because I did something wrong.” Given that statement, and Hill’s guilty plea, his denial in 2019 of his actions in 2014 are likely to be seen by most as a refusal to show remorse and accept responsibility for his actions.

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7 minutes ago, Stinkin Ref said:

????....I must not know the definition of blackmail or I missed the part of the phone call with his demands.....

YOU suggested that “you better be afraid of me too, b###h,” was not a physical threat, but a threat to spill the “dirt” on her.  The implication being that if she didn’t stop claiming that he abused their son, he would release said “dirt.”  

Blackmail-verb 1. demand money or another benefit from (someone) in return for not revealing compromising or damaging information about them.

The benefit that YOU implied he was demanding was for her to stop claiming he was a child abuser.  

So, if it was a physical threats, it violates the NFL’s policy.  If he was threatening to release damaging info on her unless she stopped calling him an abuser, it’s blackmail, and also a violation of the NFLs policy.

Edited by Bayhawks

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1 hour ago, Joe Bryant said:

Thanks. 

Who is your source?

I can't reveal that. I really don't mind if you believe me or not. I only shared it to help the board. 

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