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eoMMan

Why can't some things just be accidents? (Cruise toddler lawsuit)

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18 minutes ago, The Big Guy said:

Cruise I am going on has me in a balcony cabin (look at me) and if I fall overboard, whose fault is it?

Yours (imo) but most balcony cabins would have you falling onto another section of the ship....not the water.

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5 hours ago, The Big Guy said:

Cruise I am going on has me in a balcony cabin (look at me) and if I fall overboard, whose fault is it?

at this point it is actually eeomans fault its crazy how things come around like that take that to the bank brohan 

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I do not believe the story of how he thought there was glass there. I think the whole hockey game thing is BS. Also the hockey photos have her on the ground. If he was truly trying to replicate he would have just had her on the ground doing it. That story reeks of the attorney trying to come up with a story. Saying it was in a children's play area is a very loose interpretation of things. Like a lawyer knowing he can say that since there aren't really walls anywhere. The 11th floor is the pool deck. They have an "H20 Zone" on the 11th deck which is a kids area in the center. This happened right next to the juice and smoothie bar. 

In this video if you pause it at :07 seconds you can see the juice bar(named squeeze) to the far left and you can see a kid with a white hat come out of that area. If you drew a straight line above his hat at :07, that is the window she fell out of. Also as you can see it is pretty obvious when a window is open or closed. 

 

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On 10/30/2019 at 12:54 PM, Jobber said:

Agreed. From the CNN story: "...prosecutors allege that Anello "negligently exposed [his granddaughter] through one of the windows," according to a statement from the Puerto Rican Department of Justice."

I think you nailed it. There may be video of this guy doing something very stupid with his granddaughter and shes slipped out of his grasp. 

ETA: I've been on several cruises in the last few years and I have been noticing more and more cameras on deck. Probably to capture the drunk morons who fall overboard, as well as something like this.

Not sure how the Puerto Rican justice system works and if there are jury trials or not.  I am guessing this is Puerto Rico protecting the cruise industry and this will be settled when they drop their lawsuit with the cruise line.  Or maybe there is video and he screwed up.

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2 hours ago, GStrot said:

Not sure how the Puerto Rican justice system works and if there are jury trials or not.  I am guessing this is Puerto Rico protecting the cruise industry and this will be settled when they drop their lawsuit with the cruise line.  Or maybe there is video and he screwed up.

There was a dead toddler on the ground. They dont need video.

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On 11/4/2019 at 8:36 AM, GStrot said:

Not sure how the Puerto Rican justice system works and if there are jury trials or not.  I am guessing this is Puerto Rico protecting the cruise industry and this will be settled when they drop their lawsuit with the cruise line.  Or maybe there is video and he screwed up.

Ding ding ding.

Cbs this morning has a reporter that has seen the video. They havent released it but the reporter describes it. 

He says the grandpa leans over the railing first to look out and then he picks up the baby.

Simply not believable that he thought glass was there.  

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On 10/31/2019 at 7:30 AM, eoMMan said:

Yours (imo) but most balcony cabins would have you falling onto another section of the ship....not the water.

Really? Most ads I see on TV make it seem all rooms you could cannonball quite easily. 

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9 hours ago, Galileo said:

Here's a close up of the actual ship on the rightAnd another.  You go over the edge and you are either splattered on the pier or in the drink.

That picture is a good illustration for what i think happened. I think he was looking down at the people. His lawyer answering the question about why did he lean forward with the baby said something like obviously to get a better view. Well the only view you improve by leaning forward is of the ground. 

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11 hours ago, culdeus said:

I mean you swan dive off these balconies you end up where?

https://www.rssc.com/ships

I could be mistaken but I thought most balcony rooms were/are sloped slightly so you would hit a deck, maybe another balcony, or the life raft down below.  I agree that some ships it looks like it is straight down from your balcony to the water.

I was thinking something like this (granted, this is the rear of the ship but you get the idea):

https://cruiseradio.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/HAVANA-BALCONY-A.jpg

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1 hour ago, eoMMan said:

I could be mistaken but I thought most balcony rooms were/are sloped slightly so you would hit a deck, maybe another balcony, or the life raft down below.  I agree that some ships it looks like it is straight down from your balcony to the water.

I was thinking something like this (granted, this is the rear of the ship but you get the idea):

https://cruiseradio.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/HAVANA-BALCONY-A.jpg

There are some, but probably not "most".  I recall one or two older ships from cruises I took a couple decades ago where looking down from the balcony you would see the muster stations directly below.  From higher up though, it wouldn't take much horizontal velocity at all for a trajectory to clear those, but a pretty straight drop would have hit deck or life boat.  So they do exist this way, but I don't know how common it is.

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The ABC news description is even more damning. 

Quote

 

They walk over to the wall of windows where Anello appears to look over the railing, through the open window. Anello picks Chloe up and stands her up on the railing, and they appear to lean over together looking out over the port.

Then he re-adjusts and sits Chloe on the railing, still facing the port. They lean over again and she disappears from the frame.

 

 

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4 hours ago, eoMMan said:

I could be mistaken but I thought most balcony rooms were/are sloped slightly so you would hit a deck, maybe another balcony, or the life raft down below.  I agree that some ships it looks like it is straight down from your balcony to the water.

I was thinking something like this (granted, this is the rear of the ship but you get the idea):

https://cruiseradio.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/HAVANA-BALCONY-A.jpg

That's how the higher up and rear balconies are.

Regular room balconies are pretty straight in line. They offset a touch where you may see a person's head or hands on the rail below.

I've been in a variety of balconies

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Another video of the deck this happened on. Pretty obvious what is open or closed.

I wonder if this attorney really screwed this family. He was so aggressive in blaming the cruise ship and threw a lot of crap against the wall. Had they quietly just said it was an accident and they are grieving, I don't see this going to charges. His actions all but forced a pretty through investigation and legitimate answers. 

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1 hour ago, parasaurolophus said:

Another video of the deck this happened on. Pretty obvious what is open or closed.

I wonder if this attorney really screwed this family. He was so aggressive in blaming the cruise ship and threw a lot of crap against the wall. Had they quietly just said it was an accident and they are grieving, I don't see this going to charges. His actions all but forced a pretty through investigation and legitimate answers. 

Maybe, possible the attorney didn't have all the information, just the account from the family.

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I think it's right to assume in this situation it was a horrible accident.  Problem is there are facts.

Seems like narrative is shifting for sure.  Still don't think the guy just chucked the kid out the window like some monster, but he was much more negligent than first let on.  

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I got the impression that the family so desparately didn't want to blame him, they made up a scenario where he wasn't at fault.  The problem is that it really doesn't make any sense.

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51 minutes ago, Foosball God said:

Maybe, possible the attorney didn't have all the information, just the account from the family.

There is just no real reason to charge this man with any crime," said Michael Winkleman, a civil attorney representing Chloe's parents. "You could make an argument that whoever opened that window should be charged with a crime, not Sam."

i am going to go ahead and guess this guy has no issue making stuff up. 

Police are also claiming that grandpa told them a very different account right away. 

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On 7/9/2019 at 3:30 PM, eoMMan said:

Because we are the most sue happy country in the world. I've gone to school with guys from other countries and have an aunt from Bulgaria and her and her family couldn't believe how much we sue in this country. It's greed for money and people not wanting to take accountability of their actions. Working in a supermarket I see people trying to get away with stuff constantly. You put wet floor signs up and do everything to block an area a spill is in and try to clean it up. Despite telling people to please go around or go the other way they simple walk over the dam spill like they think "well if I fall I can get a lawsuit". 

About 6-8 yrs ago my Grocery manager was in charge on Thanksgiving day. We had a lady who slipped and my co worker (now a SD in the company) didn't think she was telling the truth. 3 of us go to the cameras and realize she poured part of her water on the ground and fell intentionally. My Manager comes back with the papers to fill out an incident report and my buddy has his phone in his hands ready to call the cops if she doesn't do the right thing. Manager ask her if she really did slip and at first she acts like disbelieved he'd asked her that. He says ok fill this out but if you do you will be filing a false claim and my employee here is calling the local police as soon as you sign this so they can have a talk with you. We have you on camera pouring the water on the ground. 

Don't think the women ever came back into the store. 

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11 hours ago, parasaurolophus said:

Footage is out there. This guy is just an awful human. 

I think the family is just desperate for some reason, any reason, to make this not his fault.  Their lawyer is scum imo.

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40 minutes ago, Foosball God said:

I think the family is just desperate for some reason, any reason, to make this not his fault.  Their lawyer is scum imo.

Their lawyer is absolutely scummy. He just blatantly lies and edited the video when he sent it to news stations.

The media is fairly disgusting regarding this incident too. They are 100% on board with the narrative of it being the fault of the cruise ship. Footage aired on a hispanic TV show last night. Prior to heading out the door today I couldn't find a single reference to it by US media. Media members retweeted the sound bites from the family press conference the other day, "The family’s primary goal is to continue to raise awareness about window fall dangers" but nothing regarding this now? Come on. 

Edited by parasaurolophus

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3 hours ago, parasaurolophus said:

The media is fairly disgusting regarding this incident too. They are 100% on board with the narrative of it being the fault of the cruise ship.

I have no idea which "the media" you are watching, but ABC News isn't reporting it this way.  Neither is CBS News.

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Sorry they lost their kid, but this appears clearly to be on the grandfather. Pretty disgusting that they are going for a money grab over his negligence.

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4 hours ago, Foosball God said:

I think the family is just desperate for some reason, any reason, to make this not his fault.  Their lawyer is scum imo.

Is there video out that really proves anything?

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53 minutes ago, Mrs. Rannous said:

I have no idea which "the media" you are watching, but ABC News isn't reporting it this way.  Neither is CBS News.

CBS news absolutely is.

Quote

Is it reasonable for a parent to have expected there to be glass there in that window? From what I have heard from you, seems pretty reasonable to me. I have yet to see anything that would overturn the family's account

-Tony Dokoupil 

Edited by parasaurolophus

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2 minutes ago, Apple Jack said:

The surveillance footage.

Is there new one that was released?  The one I saw wasn't like he just chucked the kid out the window.

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Just now, culdeus said:

Is there new one that was released?  The one I saw wasn't like he just chucked the kid out the window.

Ah, I thought you were talking in the context of the family's suit against the cruise line.

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Just now, Apple Jack said:

Ah, I thought you were talking in the context of the family's suit against the cruise line.

The one that got released I believe was in that context, to in part show that he couldn't tell that there was no glass in the section he was near.  I don't feel like it conclusively showed he was misled, or malicious in that moment.  Mostly that he was a genuine #######.

 

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4 minutes ago, culdeus said:

The one that got released I believe was in that context, to in part show that he couldn't tell that there was no glass in the section he was near.  I don't feel like it conclusively showed he was misled, or malicious in that moment.  Mostly that he was a genuine #######.

 

You can clearly see he stuck his head out the window before he picked her up. What video did you see?

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3 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

You can clearly see he stuck his head out the window before he picked her up. What video did you see?

Exactly, I guess I phrased this wrong.  It seemed like he was well aware there was no glass and pulled the kid up to that window for that specific reason, not for the reason to chuck the kid out the window.  

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1 hour ago, parasaurolophus said:

CBS news absolutely is.

Evidence of this?  I haven't seen it.  Mostly what I see is that they don't want to shame/blame a family that lost it's child.

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1 hour ago, culdeus said:

The one that got released I believe was in that context, to in part show that he couldn't tell that there was no glass in the section he was near.  I don't feel like it conclusively showed he was misled, or malicious in that moment.  Mostly that he was a genuine #######.

I've seen some commentary that the released video was edited by that lovely lawyer they hired.  I haven't seen any unedited footage that I know of.  Do you have a link?

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39 minutes ago, Mrs. Rannous said:

Evidence of this?  I haven't seen it.  Mostly what I see is that they don't want to shame/blame a family that lost it's child.

The quote in my post is from cbs news. 

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3 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

The quote in my post is from cbs news. 

That isn't what is being reported on their evening newcast.  Perhaps he's expressng an opinion here.  

In any event, their is no unilateral "media" reporting.

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I've been on many cruises.

You'd have to be a complete idiot to not know there was no glass there and have to go to a lot of effort to get the kid to that open window

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48 minutes ago, Mrs. Rannous said:

I've seen some commentary that the released video was edited by that lovely lawyer they hired.  I haven't seen any unedited footage that I know of.  Do you have a link?

the link was posted here, in this thread and if it's deleted it was likely a moderator action.

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9 minutes ago, Mrs. Rannous said:

That isn't what is being reported on their evening newcast.  Perhaps he's expressng an opinion here.  

In any event, their is no unilateral "media" reporting.

Cbs news has had most of the exclusives from this story. They have allowed the family to put their case out there with little questioning in exchange for the scoop.

That is bad reporting. 

Then the coverage and tweeting of the family's press conference by multiple outlets which had no question and answer period. That's literally just acting as a platform for them.

If you are going to give the story extended air time, you have to actually cover it properly. If you want to give the family of a dead child space that is fine and should actually be the correct path. 

It is completely ridiculous though to just be the mouthpiece if the family and their attorney. 

Either pass on the story or fully cover it. Only acceptable options for a responsible media.

 

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2 hours ago, parasaurolophus said:

CBS news absolutely is.

-Tony Dokoupil 

I think your quote was from the end of this news report:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqS_55470Sw

Your quote was one statement from a three and a half minute report that I thought was very fair and straightforward, and not really an example of the "fairly disgusting" media being "100% on board with the narrative of it being the fault of the cruise ship."  In fact, one of the other commentators says this:  "Well, when you look at the photograph of it, it looks pretty obvious it [the glass] is not there, but you don't know from the grandfather's angle what he saw."

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35 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

Cbs news has had most of the exclusives from this story. They have allowed the family to put their case out there with little questioning in exchange for the scoop.

That is bad reporting. 

Then the coverage and tweeting of the family's press conference by multiple outlets which had no question and answer period. That's literally just acting as a platform for them.

If you are going to give the story extended air time, you have to actually cover it properly. If you want to give the family of a dead child space that is fine and should actually be the correct path. 

It is completely ridiculous though to just be the mouthpiece if the family and their attorney. 

Either pass on the story or fully cover it. Only acceptable options for a responsible media.

 

Again, here's the report from which you pulled your quote:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqS_55470Sw

I don't think this report is an example of CBS "literally just acting as a platform for them" or "being a mouthpiece of the family and their attorney."  The reporter who saw the video explained in detail what he saw depicted.  He did not conclude that it was the cruise ship's fault.  He also directly questioned the lawyer about the grandfather leaning over the rail.  He also questioned him how the grandfather could prove that he thought there was gfass there.  And contrary to your quote (which was indeed in support of the family's position), the other guy at the table said that from the picture, it was obvious that the glass was missing (though he conceded that it may have looked different from the grandfather's angle).  Note also that they lead off the report with photos of the toddler and the grandfather with huge bold red letters "CHARGED WITH NEGLIGENT HOMICIDE."  That's not a really-family friendly opening to the news report.  In that regard, it's worth keeping in mind that the context of this news report is the criminal charge that has been brought against the grandfather (it's my understanding that the video was provided in connection with the criminal proceeding).  The cruise line isn't charged in the criminal trial as far as I'm aware.  Just because one doesn’t think that the cruise line should be held civilly liable doesn’t mean the grandfather should be convicted and go to jail.

All in all, I thought it was a very fair report, particularly because the cruise ship declined comment and the reporter was thus unable to present their statement regarding the video.  Watching the news report, I wouldn't characterize CBS as disgusting, fairly or otherwise.

Edited by bigbottom
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When you lose someone to something other than health stuff like accidents, we want to be certain there was no foul play. I don't think it's always about money. We know payments if any are not often what you were awarded. It's human nature in most of us to question such tragic losses in your life unless it's clear cut.

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49 minutes ago, bigbottom said:

Again, here's the report from which you pulled your quote:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqS_55470Sw

I don't think this report is an example of CBS "literally just acting as a platform for them" or "being a mouthpiece of the family and their attorney."  The reporter who saw the video explained in detail what he saw depicted.  He did not conclude that it was the cruise ship's fault.  He also directly questioned the lawyer about the grandfather leaning over the rail.  He also questioned him how the grandfather could prove that he thought there was gfass there.  And contrary to your quote (which was indeed in support of the family's position), the other guy at the table said that from the picture, it was obvious that the glass was missing (though he conceded that it may have looked different from the grandfather's angle).  Note also that they lead off the report with photos of the toddler and the grandfather with huge bold red letters "CHARGED WITH NEGLIGENT HOMICIDE."  That's not a really-family friendly opening to the news report.  In that regard, it's worth keeping in mind that the context of this news report is the criminal charge that has been brought against the grandfather (it's my understanding that the video was provided in connection with the criminal proceeding).  The cruise line isn't charged in the criminal trial as far as I'm aware.  Just because one doesn’t think that the cruise line should be held civilly liable doesn’t mean the grandfather should be convicted and go to jail.

All in all, I thought it was a very fair report, particularly because the cruise ship declined comment and the reporter was thus unable to present their statement regarding the video.  Watching the news report, I wouldn't characterize CBS as disgusting, fairly or otherwise.

The video was provided by the family attorney and played at 8 times speed. They posted only a photo provided by the attorney which was a video still from a tour of the 11th deck. It purposely left out the other windows from view to hide how obvious the tint is. The video it is from is easily available on youtube. 

Iirc he said something to the attorney like "what would you say to the people that say he leaned over the railing." He just teed it up. He didnt question him. Had they verified independently the dimensions of the window and railings, distances, etc. It is crystal clear that grandpa placed his head out of the window. 

Also in David's description of the video he mentions how there is a wall of windows and then just this one window open, which from the other angle doesnt look to be true. In fact some look half open.

David has even gone so far as to defend the attorney regarding video being viewed in a non real time format. He says that it was a software issue and that it just played at fast forward 8 times by accident. 

Thats not believable in any way. If you watched that video in 8 times speed, that kid and grandpa would be moving at light speed. You would instantly know. The only way you wouldnt would be if it was selectively edited. So either CBS knew it was sped up and didnt care because they liked that story line better, or they are covering for the attorney. 

 

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Completely obvious that the window was open and that he looked out. The tinting was really obvious. When a window was open you could see how dark the window next to it was with two panes overlapping. Terrible tragedy, he was stupid, I don’t think anything was intentional. When the grandfather leans over a lot at the end, it’s clear to me that she just fell and he’s trying to catch her. The lawsuit is sort of ridiculous and I’m surprised they are continuing unless they are just hoping they’ll get a settlement to stop the bad press (most people will just go on hearsay rather than watch the real video). 

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