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matuski

Moderate voters - Centerish Candidates

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Center Left, Center Right.  Moderate D or R.

What am I looking at here?  Good options to Biden?

Truly hoping the dems put out a moderate candidate and don't overreact to Trump by throwing out their own nutjob.

 

Edited by matuski
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5 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

Klobuchar, Buttigieg

I totally forgot Klobuchar.  Really liked what I saw/read a while back.

I gotta catch up on Butti.

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Booker and Mayor Pete support Medicare for all, decriminalizing border crossings. They are not moderates. Biden, Bennett , Klobuchar, Hickenlooper are the only moderate Democrats. 

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12 minutes ago, lazyike said:

Booker and Mayor Pete support Medicare for all, decriminalizing border crossings. They are not moderates. Biden, Bennett , Klobuchar, Hickenlooper are the only moderate Democrats. 

If this is your definition of "moderate" which I don't buy at all by the way, then take Biden off the list.  He was part of an administration and tried to help push through a government run option for healthcare.  Has Klobucher changed her position from "Medicare for All might be the future, but what about now"?  If not, that seems to be disqualifying by your premise as well.  Or is it "moderate" to be ok with M4A in the future, just not right now?  I can't speak to the others...haven't paid much attention to them.

Edited by The Commish
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How about a candidate that supports tariffs, criminal justice reform, gay marriage, lower taxes and enforcing our countries border laws? 

Looks like President Donald J. Trump is the moderate/centrist candidate you’ve been dreaming of.  

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1 minute ago, Widbil83 said:

Looks like President Donald J. Trump is the moderate/centrist candidate you’ve been dreaming of.  

He actually is, people won’t admit it because they’re blinded by hate , but he is.

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You guys should really start out with a definition of "moderate".  If a thread ever needed it, this one does :lmao: 

Hint:  Having solidly left positions and solidly right (if not extreme right) positions, doesn't make one a moderate.....especially when the solutions are not moderate solutions.

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9 hours ago, matuski said:

I totally forgot Klobuchar.  Really liked what I saw/read a while back.

I gotta catch up on Butti.

She's my choice by a lot. But it is hard to see a path for her.
Buttigieg is a really impressive guy, but he's pretty green at this point. I'd support him in a General, because I think he has the intelligence and judgement to take good counsel from experts who could fill in his blanks. But would prefer more experience and track record.
At this stage, Harris and Biden seem like the moderates that have a shot.Despite being one of those labeling Harris inauthentic, I prefer her to Biden's "Let' Heal and BO is my BFF' platform

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15 minutes ago, The Commish said:

You guys should really start out with a definition of "moderate".  If a thread ever needed it, this one does :lmao: 

Hint:  Having solidly left positions and solidly right (if not extreme right) positions, doesn't make one a moderate.....especially when the solutions are not moderate solutions.

Somewhere between this Green New Deal nonsense and Sarah Palin.

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1 minute ago, matuski said:

Somewhere between this Green New Deal nonsense and Sarah Palin.

It's funny you say this...with the sprint to the right the GOP has done, I was jokingly going to use Sarah Palin as the marker for moderate when looking at things through the GOP lens :lol: 

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I think Kamala Harris is acceptable to the center. She is quite progressive on some issues, but much like Obama she is a pragmatist; she won’t push for things that she knows are unrealistic. I believe she will govern to the middle. 

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35 minutes ago, Widbil83 said:

How about a candidate that supports tariffs, criminal justice reform, gay marriage, lower taxes and enforcing our countries border laws? 

Looks like President Donald J. Trump is the moderate/centrist candidate you’ve been dreaming of.  

Tariffs are not a centrist position. And there is a difference between enforcing border laws and Trump’s nativist bigotry. 

But the biggest problem for centrists with Donald Trump is his rejection of the established role of the USA which has essentially kept the peace of the world since 1945: NATO and our international commitments. 

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29 minutes ago, The Commish said:

It's funny you say this...with the sprint to the right the GOP has done, I was jokingly going to use Sarah Palin as the marker for moderate when looking at things through the GOP lens :lol: 

You could be right on Palin. :lol:

I am more of the perception that the sprint to the right has slowed drastically relative to that of the left.

 

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1 hour ago, Widbil83 said:

How about a candidate that supports tariffs, criminal justice reform, gay marriage, lower taxes and enforcing our countries border laws? 

Looks like President Donald J. Trump is the moderate/centrist candidate you’ve been dreaming of.  

I'll vote for Biden and a few others noted here all day every day over Trump.

I'll vote Trump all day every day over the AOC's of the world.  The guy is everything I am raising my kids not to be, but really hasn't done anything terrible or great as president to be honest. For this reason, indeed, he could be the more moderate choice.

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1 hour ago, Widbil83 said:

How about a candidate that supports tariffs, criminal justice reform, gay marriage, lower taxes and enforcing our countries border laws? 

Looks like President Donald J. Trump is the moderate/centrist candidate you’ve been dreaming of.  

 

1 hour ago, HellToupee said:

He actually is, people won’t admit it because they’re blinded by hate , but he is.

Hate?  Its not hate to say that tariffs aren't moderate position?  It isn't hate to say that Trump’s stance in immigration isn't a moderate position?  It isn't hate to say his tax cut that benefited then rich and corporations more than anyone else isn't a moderate position?  It isn't hate to say that his attack on the media isn't a moderate position? It isn't hate to say he isn't a moderate.  Because he isn't one.

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40 minutes ago, matuski said:

You could be right on Palin. :lol:

I am more of the perception that the sprint to the right has slowed drastically relative to that of the left.

 

I see a huge battle going on for control of the Dem party.  Yes, there are some who want to go further left and they are fighting to do so.  It's also true that they are fighting people within the party who are resisting going that direction.  That fight isn't happening in the GOP...they're off to the races and anyone not on board is left behind or pushed out.

The other part of the equation that people aren't putting nearly as much weight on as they should IMO, is where the electorate is going.  There's no question the electorate, at minimum, is standing pat and I could make the argument that they are moving left which would alter the perception of what "moderate" is.  It would make "moderate" far more radical to the GOP than it would to the Dems.  It baffles me that the Dems can't adjust to this and compromise.  If they compromised on the littlest of things, the electoral map would be a pretty solid color of blue.  

Perfect example is healthcare.  Propose a public option.  Allow the government to compete in the already established private sector like they do with the USPS.  If they can offer a better product, the market will tell them that.  Yeah, private companies will push back, but that's not my concern.  It's the right thing to do.  It's baffling that they don't see these things.

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50 minutes ago, The Commish said:

Perfect example is healthcare.  Propose a public option.  Allow the government to compete in the already established private sector like they do with the USPS.  If they can offer a better product, the market will tell them that.  

I think this is a pretty common position among the candidates other than the progressive wing
 Buttegieg: "I would call it Medicare for All Who Want It. you take something like Medicare, a flavor of that, and you make it available on the exchanges it. People can buy in. and then if people like us are right that that will be not only a more inclusive plan, but a more efficient plan than any of the corporate answers out there, then it will be a very natural glide path to the single payer environment."
Biden: " whether they have private insurance, employer insurance or no insurance, they, in fact, can buy into the exchange to a Medicare like plan. "
Bennet "..Medicare for all as mayor Buttigieg says but for others that want to keep it they should be able to keep it. And I think that will be the fastest way to get where we need to go.
Klobuchar- "And the idea I put out there, the public option, which the governor was just talking about, this idea is that you use Medicare or Medicaid without any insurance companies involved, you can do it either way. And the estimates are 13 million people would see a reduction in their premiums, 12 more million people would get covered.So I think it is a beginning and the way you start and the way you move to universal health care.

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3 hours ago, HellToupee said:

He actually is, people won’t admit it because they’re blinded by hate , but he is.

I didn’t even mention his foreign policy being to the left of Biden. President Trump is 100% the only moderate candidate in the 2020 race. 

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2 hours ago, timschochet said:

Tariffs are not a centrist position. And there is a difference between enforcing border laws and Trump’s nativist bigotry. 

But the biggest problem for centrists with Donald Trump is his rejection of the established role of the USA which has essentially kept the peace of the world since 1945: NATO and our international commitments. 

President Trump is way too moderate for me on a host of issues. When this happens I sit up late in my study drinking bourbon watching old 2016 Ted Cruz speeches wondering what could have been. 

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2 minutes ago, Widbil83 said:

I didn’t even mention his foreign policy being to the left of Biden. President Trump is 100% the only moderate candidate in the 2020 race. 

And when was the last peace President that we had? Pragmatic and levelheaded 

 

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3 hours ago, The Commish said:

If this is your definition of "moderate" which I don't buy at all by the way, then take Biden off the list.  He was part of an administration and tried to help push through a government run option for healthcare.  Has Klobucher changed her position from "Medicare for All might be the future, but what about now"?  If not, that seems to be disqualifying by your premise as well.  Or is it "moderate" to be ok with M4A in the future, just not right now?  I can't speak to the others...haven't paid much attention to them.

CNN) - Joe Biden says he opposes fellow Democratic presidential contenders' push for a "Medicare for All" program because such an overhaul of the nation's health system could not coexist with the Affordable Care Act.

The former vice president, in an exclusive interview with CNN's Chris Cuomo airing on Monday, argued that former President Barack Obama's signature health care law, also known as Obamacare, should be expanded to allow people to buy into government-run coverage.

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9 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

And when was the last peace President that we had? Pragmatic and levelheaded 

 

What is level headed about his stances with Iran, North Korea, China, Mexico?  Those also not moderate positions.

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14 minutes ago, Widbil83 said:

I didn’t even mention his foreign policy being to the left of Biden. President Trump is 100% the only moderate candidate in the 2020 race. 

What stance of his is actually moderate?  As others have mentioned...those brought up show his actual stance not be moderate at all.

 

Also, please give an example of where he is left of Biden on foreign policy.

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3 hours ago, Widbil83 said:

How about a candidate that supports tariffs, criminal justice reform, gay marriage, lower taxes and enforcing our countries border laws? 

Looks like President Donald J. Trump is the moderate/centrist candidate you’ve been dreaming of.  

Tariffs are centrist? Falsely declaring a national emergency to fund a wall is centrist? Expanding the federal and trade deficits is centrist?

Further proof that Trump supporters are straight up delusional. 

3 hours ago, HellToupee said:

He actually is, people won’t admit it because they’re blinded by hate , but he is.

If anyone is blinded by hate, it is Trump and his supporters. Just look at him lashing out at his buddies at Fox News earlier in the week. Dude has anger issues.

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1 hour ago, Max Power said:

Anyone know where the website is that matches you to a candidate based on your answers to a questionnaire?

I used that last time and I think it is almost worthless. The problem being that it weighs them all the same.

I don't mean to belittle some of the hot button issues today, but, for example, I'm much more concerned with balancing our budget and restoring foreign relations than I am about race relations and gun control.

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13 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

What is level headed about his stances with Iran, North Korea, China, Mexico?  Those also not moderate positions.

Iran is a work in progress, NK is trending upward for the 1st time in my lifetime, China is a problem that should’ve been dealt with for a very longtime 

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Just now, HellToupee said:

Iran is a work in progress, NK is trending upward for the 1st time in my lifetime, China is a problem that should’ve been dealt with for a very longtime 

Iran is a mess after he tore up the deal and threatens them in Twitter.  Nothing about that in level  headed or pragmatic.

NK is trending status quo...they aren't giving up Nukes and he has elevated Kim and suspended our own activities (actually making it worse than status quo).  Its better than where it was when he was threatening them and escalated thing...but that was his own doing.  Again, nothing level headed or pragmatic there.

China was being dealt with in a way through TPP...taking away a bit of their leverage.  Je tore that up too and started a trade war with them that is hurting American businesses and consumers. His actions there are again not level headed or pragmatic.

 

 

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12 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

Iran is a mess after he tore up the deal and threatens them in Twitter.  Nothing about that in level  headed or pragmatic.

NK is trending status quo...they aren't giving up Nukes and he has elevated Kim and suspended our own activities (actually making it worse than status quo).  Its better than where it was when he was threatening them and escalated thing...but that was his own doing.  Again, nothing level headed or pragmatic there.

China was being dealt with in a way through TPP...taking away a bit of their leverage.  Je tore that up too and started a trade war with them that is hurting American businesses and consumers. His actions there are again not level headed or pragmatic.

 

 

I disagree 

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1 minute ago, HellToupee said:

I disagree 

Thats ok, its your to that opinion.  

Mine is based in the facts of what has gone down (his words ans actions) and the definition of level headed and pragmatic.

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29 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

I disagree 

The Iran deal was severely limited in what facilities could be inspected.  Almost anything military was off limits.

Was it better than nothing?  I would have preferred not to ship them mountains of cash and left the original deal undone, but that ship had sailed.

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2 minutes ago, jonessed said:

The Iran deal was severely limited in what facilities could be inspected.  Almost anything military was off limits.

Was it better than nothing?  I would have preferred not to ship them mountains of cash and left the original deal undone, but that ship had sailed.

And we are now in worse shape with them. 

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Just now, sho nuff said:

And we are now in worse shape with them. 

What do you mean?  We have worse relations with the Iranian government?

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1 minute ago, jonessed said:

What do you mean?  We have worse relations with the Iranian government?

We have less control over all of it after pulling out of the deal and tensions with them are higher than under Obama and the deal.

They are enriching beyond what the deal would have allowed...and what can we now do?

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1 hour ago, lazyike said:

CNN) - Joe Biden says he opposes fellow Democratic presidential contenders' push for a "Medicare for All" program because such an overhaul of the nation's health system could not coexist with the Affordable Care Act.

The former vice president, in an exclusive interview with CNN's Chris Cuomo airing on Monday, argued that former President Barack Obama's signature health care law, also known as Obamacare, should be expanded to allow people to buy into government-run coverage.

Public option would be a death blow to "Obamacare" as well.  Based on what I've read from Joe, he doesn't seem to have a good handle on the healthcare situation, which is weird given who he served under.

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2 minutes ago, The Commish said:

Public option would be a death blow to "Obamacare" as well.  Based on what I've read from Joe, he doesn't seem to have a good handle on the healthcare situation, which is weird given who he served under.

I’m betting his understanding is just fine. His problem is that his advisors are telling him to be as vague as possible so that he’s not caught making promises that can be used against him in the general election. 

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7 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

We have less control over all of it after pulling out of the deal and tensions with them are higher than under Obama and the deal.

They are enriching beyond what the deal would have allowed...and what can we now do?

We never had control.  We were simply paying them off to keep their enrichment private.

 

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5 hours ago, lazyike said:

Booker and Mayor Pete support Medicare for all, decriminalizing border crossings. They are not moderates. Biden, Bennett , Klobuchar, Hickenlooper are the only moderate Democrats. 

A majority of Americans support some sort of "Medicare for all" government run health care program. It's a very moderate, popular opinion. 

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21 minutes ago, timschochet said:

I’m betting his understanding is just fine. His problem is that his advisors are telling him to be as vague as possible so that he’s not caught making promises that can be used against him in the general election. 

For a guy like me, this makes it worse, not better and shows a significant issue with him being the nominee.

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4 hours ago, matuski said:

I'll vote for Biden and a few others noted here all day every day over Trump.

I'll vote Trump all day every day over the AOC's of the world.  The guy is everything I am raising my kids not to be, but really hasn't done anything terrible or great as president to be honest. For this reason, indeed, he could be the more moderate choice.

You can probably strike Kamala off your list then because she’s teaming up with AOC for a nutty bill that won’t even get Majority Democrat support-

Quote

CNN) — Sen. Kamala Harris and New York Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez are teaming up to introduce legislation aimed at helping people with criminal records fairly obtain housing.

The bill, which the lawmakers will introduce Wednesday in their respective chambers, pledges to change eviction and screening policies in housing so people with a criminal history can apply for federal housing assistance.

Harris is the latest 2020 Democratic presidential candidate to attach her name to the star of the progressive left, entering the so-called AOC primary.

For his part, Biden has shied away from association with Ocasio-Cortez.

Last week, the front-runner in the 2020 Democratic field told CNN's Chris Cuomo that Ocasio-Cortez is "brilliant and bright," but said she did not represent Democrats who can win a general election in a competitive district or sta

https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/07/10/politics/kamala-harris-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-housing-bill/index.html?utm_medium=social&utm_term=image&utm_content=2019-07-10T14%3A06%3A10&utm_source=twCNNp&r=https%3A%2F%2Fforums.footballguys.com%2Fforum%2Ftopic%2F765378-2020-presidential-election-thread%2Fpage%2F21%2F

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19 minutes ago, Widbil83 said:

Agreed. The idea that Kamala Harris is anything remotely close to centrist is only posited by those who vainly hope to position her that way if/when she makes it to the general election. 

I've already posted in several places where her voting record and public stance on various issues clearly puts her in the liberal/progressive camp.

Here is yet another source where she is rated the 3rd most liberal/progressive Senator...even ranked above Bernie Sanders.

https://progressivepunch.org/scores.htm?house=senate

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2 hours ago, jonessed said:

We never had control.  We were simply paying them off to keep their enrichment private.

 

Well thats not at all what the deal actually was.  Nor is pulling out of it and our current stance anything close tk level headed, pragmatic, or moderate...which was what the doscission was about.

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The other problem we have with this thread at this moment is we all know what is being said right now, is not what is going to be said during the general.  We all know that the parties cater to their extremes in the primary then try to appeal to the middle in the general.  So, right now, most of them don't even have moderates in mind.  Who knows what they'll be saying after they win the nomination.

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4 hours ago, PhantomJB said:

Agreed. The idea that Kamala Harris is anything remotely close to centrist is only posited by those who vainly hope to position her that way if/when she makes it to the general election.

Yep.  Smells like a liberal authoritarian.  I'll pass.

I don't care for DAs to begin with - combining lawman and politician ain't such a good idea - and you can imagine the kind of personality type that role appeals to.  Not at my dinner party!

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Is this where we pretend that if Democrats would just nominate someone moderate enough that Republicans won't paint them as a far left liberal in the general? 

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