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16 minutes ago, Cobbler1 said:

Sweet that’s what we needed more time for Zeke to party.

😂

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Best not to overreact and wait and see here

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I’ll wait to hear more. Zeke already gets paid a decent wage for a guy who is always in Roger Goodells crosshairs. Don’t forget all those lawyers fees the Joneses spent. 

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Zeke has 2 more years on his contract once Dallas picks up his option.  Pretty soon players will hold out after their 1st year with 4 years left on their contract I mean why wait right ?

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Just now, Dez said:

Zeke has 2 more years on his contract once Dallas picks up his option.  Pretty soon players will hold out after their 1st year with 4 years left on their contract I mean why wait right ?

3 years of heavy usage by one of the best in the game at a position prone to injury absolutely justifies holdout under the current CBA.

Not all situations should be painted as the same.

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1 hour ago, TripItUp said:

I've been predicting this...and by the way, it's absolutely what he should be doing.

 

:coffee:

Agreed, it's in his best interest.  To avoid a Bell style stand off that hurts both parties, his best move is probably to not hold out for maximum money but settle for a bit more than the 4th and 5th year pays him 

He is racking up mileage at an alarming rate, on pace to get to FA in 2 years with 1600 touches. He might actually benefit from playing two seasons at the minimum number of games to acrue a year towards FA with how young he is... That could actually be leverage for him in terms of saying he can afford to sit out most of the next two years and still hit the touches cliff before he gets old. 

Edited by kittenmittens
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The current CBA is so bad I don't blame any of these guys for holding out for 10 games. He shouldn't pull a Bell and hold out the entire year just the first 10 games and then come back for the final 6 plus sit out the playoffs. 

Edited by Milkman
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11 minutes ago, Milkman said:

The current CBA is so bad I don't blame any of these guys for holding out for 10 games. He shouldn't pull a Bell and hold out the entire year just the first 10 games and then come back for the final 6 plus sit out the playoffs. 

correct

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56 minutes ago, TripItUp said:

3 years of heavy usage by one of the best in the game at a position prone to injury absolutely justifies holdout under the current CBA.

Not all situations should be painted as the same.

Agree. He and Melvin Gordon are making the smart move.

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1 hour ago, Milkman said:

The current CBA is so bad I don't blame any of these guys for holding out for 10 games. He shouldn't pull a Bell and hold out the entire year just the first 10 games and then come back for the final 6 plus sit out the playoffs. 

He can't do a Bell.

Bell was just a franchise tender.  Zeke is under contract he HAS to accrue the year (6 games) or he starts over next year where he is today.

Edited by matuski
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1 hour ago, Dez said:

Zeke has 2 more years on his contract once Dallas picks up his option.  Pretty soon players will hold out after their 1st year with 4 years left on their contract I mean why wait right ?

Actually, with the GM/coaching staff on such thin ice in NY..... Barkley could probably get an astronomical contract if he held out right now. Guys like him a Zeke are pretty tough to replace. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think Gordon belongs in that conversation from a talent perspective and he's not really close to the other two.

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14 minutes ago, matuski said:

He can't do a Bell.

Bell was just a franchise tender.  Zeke is under contract he HAS to accrue the year (6 games) or he starts over next year where he is today.

Seems easy enough. Show up the absolute last day he can and he'll probably be inactive the first week and 5-10 touches second week. So really only heavy usage the last 4 weeks. Less than 150 touches the next two years sounds ideal for him. 

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1 hour ago, Dez said:

Zeke has 2 more years on his contract once Dallas picks up his option.  Pretty soon players will hold out after their 1st year with 4 years left on their contract I mean why wait right ?

well they can get cut at any time....so I don't blame them....

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1 hour ago, Milkman said:

Seems easy enough. Show up the absolute last day he can and he'll probably be inactive the first week and 5-10 touches second week. So really only heavy usage the last 4 weeks. Less than 150 touches the next two years sounds ideal for him. 

Yeap.. was just saying, skipping a season like Bell isn't an option for Zeke.

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25 minutes ago, matuski said:

Yeap.. was just saying, skipping a season like Bell isn't an option for Zeke.

He won't skip a season, but he should play the minimum if he doesn't get paid.

 

I think Jerry pays him as they are legitimate Superbowl contender and Zeke is probably the 2nd most important player on the roster.

Edited by TripItUp

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1 hour ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

Jerry feels like the type to cave and pay him...….

 

the Chargers for Melvin......probably wont

 

Agreed that Jerry pays him.  I also agree that Gordon's situation is a bit different and he's less likely to get paid.

Edited by TripItUp
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1 hour ago, TripItUp said:

Agreed that Jerry pays him.  I also agree that Gordon's situation is a bit different and he's less likely to get paid.

Chargers could give him a slight bump......nothing crazy though......

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13 minutes ago, Milkman said:

Chargers could give him a slight bump......nothing crazy though......

Hard to predict the chargers erratic front office, but agree something in the middle may be the right solution.

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5 hours ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

Jerry feels like the type to cave and pay him...….

 

the Chargers for Melvin......probably wont

 

Didn't someone say in the MG thread that you have to report before a certain date in the preseason or you don't accure the service time?  Bell this didn't apply because he didn't sign his franchise tag and zeke has a contract...

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5 hours ago, BoltBacker said:

Actually, with the GM/coaching staff on such thin ice in NY..... Barkley could probably get an astronomical contract if he held out right now. Guys like him a Zeke are pretty tough to replace. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think Gordon belongs in that conversation from a talent perspective and he's not really close to the other two.

Isn't there a rule against getting a new contract until after the first 3 years or something like that? 

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6 hours ago, Dez said:

Zeke has 2 more years on his contract once Dallas picks up his option.  Pretty soon players will hold out after their 1st year with 4 years left on their contract I mean why wait right ?

RB's need to get paid early.  I don't fault any of them for holding out of one year deal if they can get a multi year deal.  the shelf life is so much shorter then other positions.

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33 minutes ago, NightStalkers said:

Didn't someone say in the MG thread that you have to report before a certain date in the preseason or you don't accure the service time?  Bell this didn't apply because he didn't sign his franchise tag and zeke has a contract...

It is week 10 of the season I believe.

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3 hours ago, kittenmittens said:

Isn't there a rule against getting a new contract until after the first 3 years or something like that? 

I was just reacting to the person who said at this rate people will be asking for a new contract after 1 year. 

You bring up an interesting point though, I'm curious if it's against the rules to have an EXTENSION in the first three years. An extension with some amount of guarantees would be as good as a new contract.

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14 hours ago, TripItUp said:

3 years of heavy usage by one of the best in the game at a position prone to injury absolutely justifies holdout under the current CBA.

Not all situations should be painted as the same.

But Zeke wants to be fed the ball.

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7 hours ago, babydemon90 said:

RB's need to get paid early.  I don't fault any of them for holding out of one year deal if they can get a multi year deal.  the shelf life is so much shorter then other positions.

Bell came out ok money wise. Not saying he did way better than he would have if he had played for the Steelers but he got a decent amount guaranteed. Hopefully these teams start doing the right thing. These RB get hit more than anybody. They take a beating and should be paid for it. 

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13 hours ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

well they can get cut at any time....so I don't blame them....

While true, and correct me if I'm wrong....but Zeke would love that.  His $3.85m is fully guaranteed for this year already, and he'd then be a FA to sign anywhere he wants, and he'd obtain a much higher deal. 

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25 minutes ago, matttyl said:

While true, and correct me if I'm wrong....but Zeke would love that.  His $3.85m is fully guaranteed for this year already, and he'd then be a FA to sign anywhere he wants, and he'd obtain a much higher deal. 

Exactly. He would obtain a much higher deal. Which means he's underpaid. 

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5 minutes ago, Milkman said:

Exactly. He would obtain a much higher deal. Which means he's underpaid. 

Same is true, then, of Melvin Gordon. 

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10 minutes ago, matttyl said:

Same is true, then, of Melvin Gordon. 

Sure. Basically the owners screwed the players so bad with the latest CBA that it's in some of their best interests to only play 6 games. Who loses? The fans. Thanks NFL owners. 

We shouldn't be surprised though. It takes a special level of greed to be a billionaire and still want to squeeze every penny out of everything you own. 

Edited by Milkman

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47 minutes ago, matttyl said:

While true, and correct me if I'm wrong....but Zeke would love that.  His $3.85m is fully guaranteed for this year already, and he'd then be a FA to sign anywhere he wants, and he'd obtain a much higher deal. 

Doesn't Dallas/SD have the option for a 5th year?

Edited by matuski

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1 minute ago, matuski said:

Doesn't Dallas have the option for a 5th year?

Yes, they do.  I was just responding to someone saying that a team can cut a player at any time.  Zeke, in his current situation, would love that. 

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14 minutes ago, Milkman said:

Sure. Basically the owners screwed the players so bad with the latest CBA that it's in some of their best interests to only play 6 games. Who loses? The fans. Thanks NFL owners. 

We shouldn't be surprised though. It takes a special level of greed to be a billionaire and still want to squeeze every penny out of everything you own. 

And this is where you lose me. 

Cursing the greed of a billionaire for wanting to maximize $ while siding with the multi multi millionaire wanting to maximize $ is.... weird.

It is business.  Making $ is the goal, for both parties.

 

Edited by matuski
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Not really seeing how Zeke got screwed by the billionaires. He got 24 million guaranteed before he stepped foot on a pro field. What if he’s Trent Richardson and got 24 million to do nothing? The rookie contracts and guarantees work both ways.

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38 minutes ago, Cobbler1 said:

Not really seeing how Zeke got screwed by the billionaires. He got 24 million guaranteed before he stepped foot on a pro field. What if he’s Trent Richardson and got 24 million to do nothing? The rookie contracts and guarantees work both ways.

I don't think anyone is saying he got screwed by the billionaires.  I certainly don't think so.  He got about $25m guaranteed for 4 years of service, with a team option for a 5th year at $9m.  He's entering year 4, where he's going to make $3.8m (also about $4m of his bonus is prorated and due against the cap this season, but I believe he's already been paid that).  Anyway, over the first 4 years his average income has been about $6.25m - putting him right at RB#10 today.  I mean sure, it could have been a Fournette situation who was actually guaranteed more money (before the team tried to take money from him for violating his deal last year) who hasn't been the same RB as Zeke - no where close overall.  He's just doing what he can to maximize his income at an occupation that generally doesn't have a long history of earning potential.  It's all about that second deal, which isn't guaranteed. 

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https://www.rotoworld.com/football/nfl/player/2089/ezekiel-elliott

Yahoo's Charles Robinson reports Ezekiel Elliott must report to camp by August 6 in order to receive an accrued season toward free agency.

Elliott is currently scheduled to be an unrestricted free agent after the 2020 season, but that would not be the case if he fails to gain at least one accrued season before then. Elliott could get the all-important fourth accrued season next year, but holding out deep into camp this time would prevent him from doing the same in his contract season. Robinson believes Elliott will ultimately decide against holding out.

SOURCE: Yahoo Sports

Jul 16, 2019, 9:20 AM ET

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1 hour ago, matttyl said:

I don't think anyone is saying he got screwed by the billionaires.  I certainly don't think so.  He got about $25m guaranteed for 4 years of service, with a team option for a 5th year at $9m.  He's entering year 4, where he's going to make $3.8m (also about $4m of his bonus is prorated and due against the cap this season, but I believe he's already been paid that).  Anyway, over the first 4 years his average income has been about $6.25m - putting him right at RB#10 today.  I mean sure, it could have been a Fournette situation who was actually guaranteed more money (before the team tried to take money from him for violating his deal last year) who hasn't been the same RB as Zeke - no where close overall.  He's just doing what he can to maximize his income at an occupation that generally doesn't have a long history of earning potential.  It's all about that second deal, which isn't guaranteed. 

Milkman seemed to be saying the owners are greedy and screwed the players in the CBA. Which may be true in a lot of ways but in this case getting close to $25 million before you take a single hit in the league is pretty good.

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1 hour ago, Twenty-Four Eighty-Four said:

https://www.rotoworld.com/football/nfl/player/2089/ezekiel-elliott

Yahoo's Charles Robinson reports Ezekiel Elliott must report to camp by August 6 in order to receive an accrued season toward free agency.

Elliott is currently scheduled to be an unrestricted free agent after the 2020 season, but that would not be the case if he fails to gain at least one accrued season before then. Elliott could get the all-important fourth accrued season next year, but holding out deep into camp this time would prevent him from doing the same in his contract season. Robinson believes Elliott will ultimately decide against holding out.

SOURCE: Yahoo Sports

Jul 16, 2019, 9:20 AM ET

Is that something different in his contract than in others?  I thought it was week 10?

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4 minutes ago, Cobbler1 said:

Milkman seemed to be saying the owners are greedy and screwed the players in the CBA. Which may be true in a lot of ways but in this case getting close to $25 million before you take a single hit in the league is pretty good.

It's more of how all the pieces fit together.  I think you'd agree that Zeke has been a top 5 RB during his time in the NFL - and that he right now is still a top 5 (possibly even top 3) RB.  There are three other guys at his position all earning (on annual average) over twice what he's earning.  The franchise tag number for his position (the average of the top 10 highest paid) is roughly twice what his average has been.  He's been paid well, no doubt - but he also didn't create the current market of the CBA, or the current market of RBs.  

He's been in the league 3 years, only playing in about 2.6 seasons with his suspension - yet has over 1,000 touches.  And that's after having over 600 touches his last two years at Ohio State in only 28 games.  Over 1,600 touches the last 5 seasons - what his worth in 2 years with another ~700 touches taking tread off his tires? 

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1 hour ago, matttyl said:

Is that something different in his contract than in others?  I thought it was week 10?

i'm a bit hazy on the details, but i think this has to do with becoming a UFA vs a RFA in 2020 with his fourth accrued season in 2019 (having only 3 makes him a RFA for 2020 per current league rules). the week 10 thing had to do with getting paid on the current contract. this latter is where i'm probably off.

found this on the NFL calendar:

Quote

Aug. 6 Deadline for players under contract to report to their clubs to earn an accrued season for free agency.

If a drafted rookie has not signed with his club by this date, he cannot be traded to any other club in 2019 and may sign a player contract only with the drafting club until the day of the Draft in the 2020 League Year.

 

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48 minutes ago, matttyl said:

It's more of how all the pieces fit together.  I think you'd agree that Zeke has been a top 5 RB during his time in the NFL - and that he right now is still a top 5 (possibly even top 3) RB.  There are three other guys at his position all earning (on annual average) over twice what he's earning.  The franchise tag number for his position (the average of the top 10 highest paid) is roughly twice what his average has been.  He's been paid well, no doubt - but he also didn't create the current market of the CBA, or the current market of RBs.  

He's been in the league 3 years, only playing in about 2.6 seasons with his suspension - yet has over 1,000 touches.  And that's after having over 600 touches his last two years at Ohio State in only 28 games.  Over 1,600 touches the last 5 seasons - what his worth in 2 years with another ~700 touches taking tread off his tires? 

I don’t think we have much of a disagreement. I certainly agree that Zeke is one of the top backs in the league and has earned his money. I just disagree that his first contract screwed him. Because again he could have just as easily not played up to it and he wouldn’t have been giving back any of the almost 25 mill guaranteed if he couldn’t hang in the NFL. That’s the nature of contracts when you’re getting a somewhat unknown quantity. 

The saving wear and tear on the body thing is a whole different economic argument to me and if Zeke or Melvin think it’s the wisest thing to sit out then so be it. I do wonder how that conversation goes though. Does he say look guys I’ve taken a ton of touches the last 5 years my body could fall apart any day now so I really need you to invest in me long term NOW?

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6 minutes ago, Pigskin Fanatic said:

i'm a bit hazy on the details, but i think this has to do with becoming a UFA vs a RFA in 2020 with his fourth accrued season in 2019 (having only 3 makes him a RFA for 2020 per current league rules). the week 10 thing had to do with getting paid on the current contract. this latter is where i'm probably off.

found this on the NFL calendar:

 

Thanks for this. That’s a big difference.

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12 minutes ago, Pigskin Fanatic said:

i'm a bit hazy on the details, but i think this has to do with becoming a UFA vs a RFA in 2020 with his fourth accrued season in 2019 (having only 3 makes him a RFA for 2020 per current league rules). the week 10 thing had to do with getting paid on the current contract. this latter is where i'm probably off.

 

But he's neither a UFA or a RFA in 2020, the Cowboys took the 5th year option.  He won't be a FA at all until 2021, unless something changes.  Or is that wrong?

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12 minutes ago, Cobbler1 said:

The saving wear and tear on the body thing is a whole different economic argument to me and if Zeke or Melvin think it’s the wisest thing to sit out then so be it. I do wonder how that conversation goes though. Does he say look guys I’ve taken a ton of touches the last 5 years my body could fall apart any day now so I really need you to invest in me long term NOW?

It's an interesting conversation, sure.  I think it goes more like, I don't want to continue getting those tons of touches and wear and tear unless I'm fairly compensated for it.  If I don't play this year, the Cowboys odds of making the post season drop substantially - that's got value, which I'm bringing to you. 

Really it's a situation of this new rookie wage scale part.  I wonder if RBs would rather go with a 2 year deal and bet on themselves, rather than a 4 (or possibly 5) year guaranteed deal.  If Zeke had hit FA after the 2017 season, he'd likely be the highest paid RB in the league today - definitely top 3 paid, and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

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5 minutes ago, matttyl said:

But he's neither a UFA or a RFA in 2020, the Cowboys took the 5th year option.  He won't be a FA at all until 2021, unless something changes.  Or is that wrong?

not wrong gb, i stated vaguely, it's at the end of 2020 season so 2021 is correct. 2020 was the option year.

separately, this just reminded me how long rookie contracts are. 5 years (always 4+1 as matty noted) is a lifetime for a RB wear and guys like zeke take a beating when featured like he is. i hate holdouts and i hate the idea of going back on contracts, but this is broken and holding out pretty much is the only recourse they have at their disposal.

it'll be interesting to see how this situation and gordon's situation ends differently (if it ends up differently) because zeke is certainly the top tier whereas gordon, imo, is not quite there. that and the two franchises are run very differently as noted throughout this discussion.

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