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supermike80

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Impeachment resolution not even close.  

When will it be time to start thinking about 2020 and not continuing to take this bait from President Trump?  Will this do it?

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The Democrats are a mess right now.   Trump should be easy pick-in's in 2020 but they seem determined to blow it.  

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We might as well get rid of impeachment if Trump does not qualify. 

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6 minutes ago, Godsbrother said:

The Democrats are a mess right now.   Trump should be easy pick-in's in 2020 but they seem determined to blow it.  

The infighting within the party is mind boggling to me.  There is no leadership. There is no core.  I'm embarrassed daily by how our President handles himself, and I am also embarrassed, though not quite as much, by how pathetic the democratic party is.  

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2 hours ago, supermike80 said:

There is no leadership. There is no core.

Unfortunately, the Democratic Party has been a political version of the Balkan States for the past 40 years.  And to my knowledge the Balkan States never marched in lockstep.  Talk about herding cats.

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The vote was to table the impeachment proposal. The impeachment proposal was not for the Russia scandal but for Trump’s comments on Sunday; IMO, those comments, while vile, are not worthy of impeachment. 

The Mueller report IS worthy of impeachment, but you need to have public sentiment with you and right now it isn’t. There is a small chance that changes after the Mueller testimony. I doubt it but it’s possible. 

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As for the Democrats, they can flounder all over the place but so long as the nominee is Biden or Harris they should win pretty easily. Actually they’re likely to win with Warren or Bernie as well, though that will certainly be a closer contest. 

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2 hours ago, supermike80 said:

The infighting within the party is mind boggling to me.  There is no leadership. There is no core.  I'm embarrassed daily by how our President handles himself, and I am also embarrassed, though not quite as much, by how pathetic the democratic party is.  

 

Clearly

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10 minutes ago, timschochet said:

As for the Democrats, they can flounder all over the place but so long as the nominee is Biden or Harris they should win pretty easily. Actually they’re likely to win with Warren or Bernie as well, though that will certainly be a closer contest. 

I wish I had your optimism. 

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3 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

I wish I had your optimism. 

It’s not based on wishful thinking. 

This election is going to be decided in 3 states: Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan. Trump won all 3 by the smallest of margins, mainly because suburban women who voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012 abandoned Hillary. In 2018 they went back to the Democrats in a big way. Per exit polling in 2018 they regret having voted for Trump. They are liberal leaning but not leftist; they are centrist and independent. They like Obamacare but are wary of Medicare for All. They want to fight climate change but are wary of Green New Deal. They detest Trump’s racism and misogyny.

So this isn’t that difficult a formula. The Dems need to avoid nominating a progressive candidate. No Medicare for All. No  Green New Deal. A middle of the roader who will bring decency and stability back. Right now that’s Biden or Harris. If they do that they should win easily. If they don’t...

 

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1 minute ago, BroncoFreak_2K3 said:

Michigan will go Trump in 2020. Democrat’s have ruined this state.

Can you unpack this a bit? Haven't Republicans controlled MI for years before the 2018 election?

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They need to completely forget about any impeachment thoughts and focus on beating him in the election.  It's not that far away so why waste any time on impeaching him?

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6 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

They need to completely forget about any impeachment thoughts and focus on beating him in the election.  It's not that far away so why waste any time on impeaching him?

Because it's their job?

I just completely disagree with this idea that you should only impeach if you think it's politically advantageous. You do it because it's your sworn duty.

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1 minute ago, Skoo said:

Because it's their job?

I just completely disagree with this idea that you should only impeach if you think it's politically advantageous. You do it because it's your sworn duty.

I understand that but don't you have to also consider if it's likely to happen and if effort could be spent on something more beneficial like making sure he doesn't get a second term.  Focusing on impeaching him could actually increase his odds of being re-elected.  What good does that do?

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1 minute ago, Hawkeye21 said:

 Focusing on impeaching him could actually increase his odds of being re-elected.  

What if impeaching him decreased his odds of election?  Would that change your perspective?  

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13 minutes ago, whoknew said:

Can you unpack this a bit? Haven't Republicans controlled MI for years before the 2018 election?

Sure. We’re still trying to recover from 2003-2010 when the Dems held the governor and State house. Now we’ve got another Dem governor that only wants to raise taxes.

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1 minute ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

What if impeaching him decreased his odds of election?  Would that change your perspective?  

Obviously but I don't think he will be impeached and that it's just a waste of time.  Not only that but it's just fueling Trump's base.

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21 minutes ago, timschochet said:

It’s not based on wishful thinking. 

This election is going to be decided in 3 states: Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan. Trump won all 3 by the smallest of margins, mainly because suburban women who voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012 abandoned Hillary. In 2018 they went back to the Democrats in a big way. Per exit polling in 2018 they regret having voted for Trump. They are liberal leaning but not leftist; they are centrist and independent. They like Obamacare but are wary of Medicare for All. They want to fight climate change but are wary of Green New Deal. They detest Trump’s racism and misogyny.

So this isn’t that difficult a formula. The Dems need to avoid nominating a progressive candidate. No Medicare for All. No  Green New Deal. A middle of the roader who will bring decency and stability back. Right now that’s Biden or Harris. If they do that they should win easily. If they don’t...

 

In addition, most centrists don't want "open borders". The democrats need to be careful how they frame immigration issues, including free healthcare for immigrants.

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7 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Obviously but I don't think he will be impeached and that it's just a waste of time.  Not only that but it's just fueling Trump's base.

My personal belief is that Democrats would benefit in 2020 if the House impeaches, even though the Senate won't remove him.

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29 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

They need to completely forget about any impeachment thoughts and focus on beating him in the election.  It's not that far away so why waste any time on impeaching him?

Which is why leadership and most tabled it.  This seems more a sign that leadership took over.  Is there some division in the party in congress?  Yeah, but look whats its done, all the focus has been on that while the candidates are out campaigning and not being targeted by GOP and Trump attacks.

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34 minutes ago, BroncoFreak_2K3 said:

Michigan will go Trump in 2020. Democrat’s have ruined this state.

Difficult to say. We went really hard for Dems in 2018 so I’m not at all sold Trump wins Michigan.

 

33 minutes ago, whoknew said:

Can you unpack this a bit? Haven't Republicans controlled MI for years before the 2018 election?

Michigan has more Democratic voters than Republicans. I believe 2016 was the first time Michigan went GOP for President since the 80s. 

 

16 minutes ago, BroncoFreak_2K3 said:

Sure. We’re still trying to recover from 2003-2010 when the Dems held the governor and State house. Now we’ve got another Dem governor that only wants to raise taxes.

But that also was the recession. While I don’t think Granholm was a good governor, that wasn’t the fault of the Democrats.

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1 hour ago, timschochet said:

As for the Democrats, they can flounder all over the place but so long as the nominee is Biden or Harris they should win pretty easily. Actually they’re likely to win with Warren or Bernie as well, though that will certainly be a closer contest. 

Lol. Either of these two will be destroyed. Though Biden less so. 

Sad the Democrats have to use a dinosaur as their nominee. 

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Democrats are going to lose MN this time too. Trump is a genius making the squad the face of your party. 

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Just now, boots11234 said:

Democrats are going to lose MN this time too. Trump is a genius making the squad the face of your party. 

They arent the face and aren’t running for President.

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Just now, sho nuff said:

They arent the face and aren’t running for President.

Doesn’t matter. MN was very close last election. Omar is from here. It’s all the push this state needed. 

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Just now, boots11234 said:

Doesn’t matter. MN was very close last election. Omar is from here. It’s all the push this state needed. 

So the push the state needed was for Trump to make racist statements about her?

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6 minutes ago, boots11234 said:

Democrats are going to lose MN this time too. Trump is a genius making the squad the face of your party. 

Trump only lost by 45k in 2016.

Sounds doable.

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1 minute ago, boots11234 said:

Doesn’t matter. MN was very close last election. Omar is from here. It’s all the push this state needed. 

So Trump telling Omar, an elected Minnesota member of Congress, to go back to her home country and approving chants in a rally of "send her back" is going to swing the state for Trump in 2020?  Yeah, that makes sense.  :crazy:

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10 minutes ago, boots11234 said:

Lol. Either of these two will be destroyed. Though Biden less so. 

Sad the Democrats have to use a dinosaur as their nominee. 

 

Who will the GOP nominee be?

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11 minutes ago, boots11234 said:

Lol. Either of these two will be destroyed. Though Biden less so. 

Sad the Democrats have to use a dinosaur as their nominee. 

It is quite funny that the party of diversity is going all in on an old white man.

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3 minutes ago, squistion said:

So Trump telling Omar, an elected Minnesota member of Congress, to go back to her home country and approving chants in a rally of "send her back" is going to swing the state for Trump in 2020?  Yeah, that makes sense.  :crazy:

Have you seen her approval rating.  People are embarrassed to live in her district. 

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1 minute ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

It is quite funny that the party of diversity is going all in on an old white man.

 

Huh?

The top four candidates are two white men, a white woman, and a black woman.

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Just now, whoknew said:

 

Huh?

The top four candidates are two white men, a white woman, and a black woman.

Biden is going to win the nomination.  Watch.  

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3 minutes ago, identikit said:
10 minutes ago, boots11234 said:

Democrats are going to lose MN this time too. Trump is a genius making the squad the face of your party. 

Trump only lost by 45k in 2016.

Sounds doable.

Clinton/Trump was close here in MN, you both are correct.

However, in 2018 in state wide elections, DEMs did very, very well.

US SENATE

Klobuchar (D) - retained her seat by 24 points

Tina Smith (D) - won her seat by 10.5 points

GOVERNOR

Walz (D) - won by 11.5 points

And also - Dems hold a 5-3 edge in congressional seats

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Just now, whoknew said:

 

Huh?

The top four candidates are two white men, a white woman, and a black woman.

5 is gay and young

6 is a black guy (giving Corey Booker the #6 spot even though there's a big gap between 5 and 6 right now) 

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4 minutes ago, boots11234 said:

Have you seen her approval rating.  People are embarrassed to live in her district. 

 

I haven't. I just did a quick search for polling and couldn't find any. Can you point me to some?

Thanks.

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4 minutes ago, boots11234 said:

Have you seen her approval rating.  People are embarrassed to live in her district. 

I haven't seen approval #s from her district, only swing state voter #s, which tells us nothing about how her constituents feels. And she did win her seat 78% - 22%

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7 minutes ago, boots11234 said:

Have you seen her approval rating.  People are embarrassed to live in her district. 

 Do you have a link to approval ratings from those in her District and/or among Minnesota voters?

And I am interested in polls taken in the next week or so as I expect a backlash against Trump in that state for his un-American bigoted attack on a Minnesota member of Congress.

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1 minute ago, squistion said:

And I am interested in polls taken in the next week or so as I expect a backlash against Trump in that state for his un-American bigoted attack on a Minnesota member of Congress

When did this happen 

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3 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

When did this happen 

You didn't read my post. Didn't say it did, but I think it will:

Quote

And I am interested in polls taken in the next week or so as I expect a backlash against Trump in that state for his un-American bigoted attack on a Minnesota member of Congress

 

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2 hours ago, timschochet said:

It’s not based on wishful thinking. 

This election is going to be decided in 3 states: Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan. Trump won all 3 by the smallest of margins, mainly because suburban women who voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012 abandoned Hillary. In 2018 they went back to the Democrats in a big way. Per exit polling in 2018 they regret having voted for Trump. They are liberal leaning but not leftist; they are centrist and independent. They like Obamacare but are wary of Medicare for All. They want to fight climate change but are wary of Green New Deal. They detest Trump’s racism and misogyny.

So this isn’t that difficult a formula. The Dems need to avoid nominating a progressive candidate. No Medicare for All. No  Green New Deal. A middle of the roader who will bring decency and stability back. Right now that’s Biden or Harris. If they do that they should win easily. If they don’t...

 

Was talking with my friend about this yesterday. (Same one that I spoke about here on the immigration stuff recently).

He's a political junkie. Super smart. Leans very conservative and is strongly anti-Trump. He's a very strong Christian and is appalled at how many Christians seem to be throwing their beliefs aside in the pursuit of political power. 

His take on the recent stuff with the "go back home" was basically:  "It's awful. He'll catch a ton of heat for it."  Obviously, that's been the case.

But he said he thought Trump's political instincts were spot on. He's playing the "love it or leave it" card. Which is not new. And what he thinks is the midwestern voters who might possibly vote Trump in 2020 will flock to that "We're for America and if you're not - go away". thing. Specifically the three states you mention. Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan.

He said in his opinion, there's a ton of fear there. It's the talk brought up about "they're just biding their time and building their base until they have the power to force Sharia law" stuff that's flared up in the past.

His take (again he is Anti Trump) is that the when people see the threat of that kind of thing, they want the "strong" guy to deal with it. Not the guy (or woman) that is perceived to be soft and welcoming. They want the tough guy not afraid to take the heat. 

FWIW, his take on Trump is that he's way more "nativist" (is that a word) than racist. In his opinion, If you're a flag waving, America first voter, he's all about you. Doesn't matter if you're Black / Gay / Asian / Whatever. On the other hand, if you're white, male and Christian and are super critical of him or the policies, then he's all against you. I have no idea if that's true. But that was his take. 

So bottom line, his take away from the "go back home" stuff was it's ugly and it'll no doubt be painful for him, but the voters in the states he needs to win will resonate with it. 

FWIW. 

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2 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

Was talking with my friend about this yesterday. (Same one that I spoke about here on the immigration stuff recently).

He's a political junkie. Super smart. Leans very conservative and is strongly anti-Trump. He's a very strong Christian and is appalled at how many Christians seem to be throwing their beliefs aside in the pursuit of political power. 

His take on the recent stuff with the "go back home" was basically:  "It's awful. He'll catch a ton of heat for it."  Obviously, that's been the case.

But he said he thought Trump's political instincts were spot on. He's playing the "love it or leave it" card. Which is not new. And what he thinks is the midwestern voters who might possibly vote Trump in 2020 will flock to that "We're for America and if you're not - go away". thing. Specifically the three states you mention. Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan.

He said in his opinion, there's a ton of fear there. It's the talk brought up about "they're just biding their time and building their base until they have the power to force Sharia law" stuff that's flared up in the past.

His take (again he is Anti Trump) is that the when people see the threat of that kind of thing, they want the "strong" guy to deal with it. Not the guy (or woman) that is perceived to be soft and welcoming. They want the tough guy not afraid to take the heat. 

FWIW, his take on Trump is that he's way more "nativist" (is that a word) than racist. In his opinion, If you're a flag waving, America first voter, he's all about you. Doesn't matter if you're Black / Gay / Asian / Whatever. On the other hand, if you're white, male and Christian and are super critical of him or the policies, then he's all against you. I have no idea if that's true. But that was his take. 

So bottom line, his take away from the "go back home" stuff was it's ugly and it'll no doubt be painful for him, but the voters in the states he needs to win will resonate with it. 

FWIW. 

I agree with your friend except I think that ultimately it fails IF IF IF the Democrats avoid someone too far to the left. 

But if they can avoid that, I don’t think “send her back” is a winning message. 

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Just now, timschochet said:

I agree with your friend except I think that ultimately it fails IF IF IF the Democrats avoid someone too far to the left. 

But if they can avoid that, I don’t think “send her back” is a winning message. 

I don't know about him but I agree with that. 

And for sure, the "Love It Or Leave It" is risky. That's not a middle of the road strategy. 

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3 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

FWIW, his take on Trump is that he's way more "nativist" (is that a word) than racist. In his opinion, If you're a flag waving, America first voter, he's all about you. Doesn't matter if you're Black / Gay / Asian / Whatever. On the other hand, if you're white, male and Christian and are super critical of him or the policies, then he's all against you. I have no idea if that's true. But that was his take. 

I think your friend is mostly right. But I would be interested in hearing your friend's explanation for why Trump has never told a white citizen that they're not from America, or why he's never told a white citizen to go back to whatever country their ancestors came from.

(A true nativist would show equal amounts of intolerance to white immigrants, IMO.)

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2 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

I don't know about him but I agree with that. 

And for sure, the "Love It Or Leave It" is risky. That's not a middle of the road strategy. 

As I wrote in the other thread, it worked for Nixon in 1971; rather than attack reasonable Democrats he went after leftist radicals like Jane Fonda, John Kerry, Angela Davis. But it only worked because the Dems chose a progressive, McGovern, to be their nominee. 

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