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supermike80

Footballguy
Impeachment resolution not even close.  

When will it be time to start thinking about 2020 and not continuing to take this bait from President Trump?  Will this do it?

 
The Democrats are a mess right now.   Trump should be easy pick-in's in 2020 but they seem determined to blow it.  
The infighting within the party is mind boggling to me.  There is no leadership. There is no core.  I'm embarrassed daily by how our President handles himself, and I am also embarrassed, though not quite as much, by how pathetic the democratic party is.  

 
The vote was to table the impeachment proposal. The impeachment proposal was not for the Russia scandal but for Trump’s comments on Sunday; IMO, those comments, while vile, are not worthy of impeachment. 

The Mueller report IS worthy of impeachment, but you need to have public sentiment with you and right now it isn’t. There is a small chance that changes after the Mueller testimony. I doubt it but it’s possible. 

 
As for the Democrats, they can flounder all over the place but so long as the nominee is Biden or Harris they should win pretty easily. Actually they’re likely to win with Warren or Bernie as well, though that will certainly be a closer contest. 

 
As for the Democrats, they can flounder all over the place but so long as the nominee is Biden or Harris they should win pretty easily. Actually they’re likely to win with Warren or Bernie as well, though that will certainly be a closer contest. 
I wish I had your optimism. 

 
I wish I had your optimism. 
It’s not based on wishful thinking. 

This election is going to be decided in 3 states: Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan. Trump won all 3 by the smallest of margins, mainly because suburban women who voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012 abandoned Hillary. In 2018 they went back to the Democrats in a big way. Per exit polling in 2018 they regret having voted for Trump. They are liberal leaning but not leftist; they are centrist and independent. They like Obamacare but are wary of Medicare for All. They want to fight climate change but are wary of Green New Deal. They detest Trump’s racism and misogyny.

So this isn’t that difficult a formula. The Dems need to avoid nominating a progressive candidate. No Medicare for All. No  Green New Deal. A middle of the roader who will bring decency and stability back. Right now that’s Biden or Harris. If they do that they should win easily. If they don’t...

 
They need to completely forget about any impeachment thoughts and focus on beating him in the election.  It's not that far away so why waste any time on impeaching him?

 
Because it's their job?

I just completely disagree with this idea that you should only impeach if you think it's politically advantageous. You do it because it's your sworn duty.
I understand that but don't you have to also consider if it's likely to happen and if effort could be spent on something more beneficial like making sure he doesn't get a second term.  Focusing on impeaching him could actually increase his odds of being re-elected.  What good does that do?

 
Can you unpack this a bit? Haven't Republicans controlled MI for years before the 2018 election?
Sure. We’re still trying to recover from 2003-2010 when the Dems held the governor and State house. Now we’ve got another Dem governor that only wants to raise taxes.

 
It’s not based on wishful thinking. 

This election is going to be decided in 3 states: Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan. Trump won all 3 by the smallest of margins, mainly because suburban women who voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012 abandoned Hillary. In 2018 they went back to the Democrats in a big way. Per exit polling in 2018 they regret having voted for Trump. They are liberal leaning but not leftist; they are centrist and independent. They like Obamacare but are wary of Medicare for All. They want to fight climate change but are wary of Green New Deal. They detest Trump’s racism and misogyny.

So this isn’t that difficult a formula. The Dems need to avoid nominating a progressive candidate. No Medicare for All. No  Green New Deal. A middle of the roader who will bring decency and stability back. Right now that’s Biden or Harris. If they do that they should win easily. If they don’t...
In addition, most centrists don't want "open borders". The democrats need to be careful how they frame immigration issues, including free healthcare for immigrants.

 
They need to completely forget about any impeachment thoughts and focus on beating him in the election.  It's not that far away so why waste any time on impeaching him?
Which is why leadership and most tabled it.  This seems more a sign that leadership took over.  Is there some division in the party in congress?  Yeah, but look whats its done, all the focus has been on that while the candidates are out campaigning and not being targeted by GOP and Trump attacks.

 
Michigan will go Trump in 2020. Democrat’s have ruined this state.
Difficult to say. We went really hard for Dems in 2018 so I’m not at all sold Trump wins Michigan.

Can you unpack this a bit? Haven't Republicans controlled MI for years before the 2018 election?
Michigan has more Democratic voters than Republicans. I believe 2016 was the first time Michigan went GOP for President since the 80s. 

Sure. We’re still trying to recover from 2003-2010 when the Dems held the governor and State house. Now we’ve got another Dem governor that only wants to raise taxes.
But that also was the recession. While I don’t think Granholm was a good governor, that wasn’t the fault of the Democrats.

 
As for the Democrats, they can flounder all over the place but so long as the nominee is Biden or Harris they should win pretty easily. Actually they’re likely to win with Warren or Bernie as well, though that will certainly be a closer contest. 
Lol. Either of these two will be destroyed. Though Biden less so. 

Sad the Democrats have to use a dinosaur as their nominee. 

 
Doesn’t matter. MN was very close last election. Omar is from here. It’s all the push this state needed. 
So Trump telling Omar, an elected Minnesota member of Congress, to go back to her home country and approving chants in a rally of "send her back" is going to swing the state for Trump in 2020?  Yeah, that makes sense.  :crazy:

 
So Trump telling Omar, an elected Minnesota member of Congress, to go back to her home country and approving chants in a rally of "send her back" is going to swing the state for Trump in 2020?  Yeah, that makes sense.  :crazy:
Have you seen her approval rating.  People are embarrassed to live in her district. 

 
Democrats are going to lose MN this time too. Trump is a genius making the squad the face of your party. 
Trump only lost by 45k in 2016.

Sounds doable.
Clinton/Trump was close here in MN, you both are correct.

However, in 2018 in state wide elections, DEMs did very, very well.

US SENATE

Klobuchar (D) - retained her seat by 24 points

Tina Smith (D) - won her seat by 10.5 points

GOVERNOR

Walz (D) - won by 11.5 points

And also - Dems hold a 5-3 edge in congressional seats

 
Have you seen her approval rating.  People are embarrassed to live in her district. 
 Do you have a link to approval ratings from those in her District and/or among Minnesota voters?

And I am interested in polls taken in the next week or so as I expect a backlash against Trump in that state for his un-American bigoted attack on a Minnesota member of Congress.

 
It’s not based on wishful thinking. 

This election is going to be decided in 3 states: Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan. Trump won all 3 by the smallest of margins, mainly because suburban women who voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012 abandoned Hillary. In 2018 they went back to the Democrats in a big way. Per exit polling in 2018 they regret having voted for Trump. They are liberal leaning but not leftist; they are centrist and independent. They like Obamacare but are wary of Medicare for All. They want to fight climate change but are wary of Green New Deal. They detest Trump’s racism and misogyny.

So this isn’t that difficult a formula. The Dems need to avoid nominating a progressive candidate. No Medicare for All. No  Green New Deal. A middle of the roader who will bring decency and stability back. Right now that’s Biden or Harris. If they do that they should win easily. If they don’t...
Was talking with my friend about this yesterday. (Same one that I spoke about here on the immigration stuff recently).

He's a political junkie. Super smart. Leans very conservative and is strongly anti-Trump. He's a very strong Christian and is appalled at how many Christians seem to be throwing their beliefs aside in the pursuit of political power. 

His take on the recent stuff with the "go back home" was basically:  "It's awful. He'll catch a ton of heat for it."  Obviously, that's been the case.

But he said he thought Trump's political instincts were spot on. He's playing the "love it or leave it" card. Which is not new. And what he thinks is the midwestern voters who might possibly vote Trump in 2020 will flock to that "We're for America and if you're not - go away". thing. Specifically the three states you mention. Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan.

He said in his opinion, there's a ton of fear there. It's the talk brought up about "they're just biding their time and building their base until they have the power to force Sharia law" stuff that's flared up in the past.

His take (again he is Anti Trump) is that the when people see the threat of that kind of thing, they want the "strong" guy to deal with it. Not the guy (or woman) that is perceived to be soft and welcoming. They want the tough guy not afraid to take the heat. 

FWIW, his take on Trump is that he's way more "nativist" (is that a word) than racist. In his opinion, If you're a flag waving, America first voter, he's all about you. Doesn't matter if you're Black / Gay / Asian / Whatever. On the other hand, if you're white, male and Christian and are super critical of him or the policies, then he's all against you. I have no idea if that's true. But that was his take. 

So bottom line, his take away from the "go back home" stuff was it's ugly and it'll no doubt be painful for him, but the voters in the states he needs to win will resonate with it. 

FWIW. 

 
Was talking with my friend about this yesterday. (Same one that I spoke about here on the immigration stuff recently).

He's a political junkie. Super smart. Leans very conservative and is strongly anti-Trump. He's a very strong Christian and is appalled at how many Christians seem to be throwing their beliefs aside in the pursuit of political power. 

His take on the recent stuff with the "go back home" was basically:  "It's awful. He'll catch a ton of heat for it."  Obviously, that's been the case.

But he said he thought Trump's political instincts were spot on. He's playing the "love it or leave it" card. Which is not new. And what he thinks is the midwestern voters who might possibly vote Trump in 2020 will flock to that "We're for America and if you're not - go away". thing. Specifically the three states you mention. Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan.

He said in his opinion, there's a ton of fear there. It's the talk brought up about "they're just biding their time and building their base until they have the power to force Sharia law" stuff that's flared up in the past.

His take (again he is Anti Trump) is that the when people see the threat of that kind of thing, they want the "strong" guy to deal with it. Not the guy (or woman) that is perceived to be soft and welcoming. They want the tough guy not afraid to take the heat. 

FWIW, his take on Trump is that he's way more "nativist" (is that a word) than racist. In his opinion, If you're a flag waving, America first voter, he's all about you. Doesn't matter if you're Black / Gay / Asian / Whatever. On the other hand, if you're white, male and Christian and are super critical of him or the policies, then he's all against you. I have no idea if that's true. But that was his take. 

So bottom line, his take away from the "go back home" stuff was it's ugly and it'll no doubt be painful for him, but the voters in the states he needs to win will resonate with it. 

FWIW. 
I agree with your friend except I think that ultimately it fails IF IF IF the Democrats avoid someone too far to the left. 

But if they can avoid that, I don’t think “send her back” is a winning message. 

 
I agree with your friend except I think that ultimately it fails IF IF IF the Democrats avoid someone too far to the left. 

But if they can avoid that, I don’t think “send her back” is a winning message. 
I don't know about him but I agree with that. 

And for sure, the "Love It Or Leave It" is risky. That's not a middle of the road strategy. 

 
FWIW, his take on Trump is that he's way more "nativist" (is that a word) than racist. In his opinion, If you're a flag waving, America first voter, he's all about you. Doesn't matter if you're Black / Gay / Asian / Whatever. On the other hand, if you're white, male and Christian and are super critical of him or the policies, then he's all against you. I have no idea if that's true. But that was his take. 
I think your friend is mostly right. But I would be interested in hearing your friend's explanation for why Trump has never told a white citizen that they're not from America, or why he's never told a white citizen to go back to whatever country their ancestors came from.

(A true nativist would show equal amounts of intolerance to white immigrants, IMO.)

 
I don't know about him but I agree with that. 

And for sure, the "Love It Or Leave It" is risky. That's not a middle of the road strategy. 
As I wrote in the other thread, it worked for Nixon in 1971; rather than attack reasonable Democrats he went after leftist radicals like Jane Fonda, John Kerry, Angela Davis. But it only worked because the Dems chose a progressive, McGovern, to be their nominee. 

 

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