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Have The Kids Had As Indelible A Mark On Popular Consciousness As Generations Past Have? (1 Viewer)

rockaction

rockaction

Footballguy
Simple question: Has the youth left their mark on popular consciousness the way it used to?  And I'm talking consumer culture, commercial culture, subculture, etc.?

All I see is festivals getting cancelled.

60s - rock n' roll, mods, rockers

70s - punk, disco

80s - new wave, synth pop

90s - grunge, hip hop (Native Tongue)

00s- ?

10s - ?

 
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I should also say that I received a 3 LP version of My Generation yesterday by The Who with all the outtakes and such and I'm trying to place a band as hip and culturally relevant and unafraid of their own relevance as The Who were when they did The Who Sell Out. (There are commercial outtakes on My Generation that are fleshing out what they would later go on to do).

I can't imagine a band today with that kind of "with-it-ness" or bigness to pull it off. It may be happening in rap right now, but I haven't really heard it. 

 
rockaction said:
I'm trying to be corrected instead of declaratory here...I'm curious if I've missed it, especially in consumer/commercial culture, which best I see, is leaning heavily away from the new. 

:fist shook: 
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fragmentation of media and knowledge and communication means that you are unlikely to get these same kind of mass effects anymore.

though 80s is right about EDM in a sense and the meme culture is something.  Really, these are both things that are undercurrents and influencers more than a mass-scale event.  Which kind of makes sense too in the way that the world of information is connected nowadays.  modularity and re-creation of the world that exists occurring on an ongoing basis.  think of it like a perpetual paul's boutique.

 
Long Ball Larry said:
fragmentation of media and knowledge and communication means that you are unlikely to get these same kind of mass effects anymore.

though 80s is right about EDM in a sense and the meme culture is something.  Really, these are both things that are undercurrents and influencers more than a mass-scale event.  Which kind of makes sense too in the way that the world of information is connected nowadays.  modularity and re-creation of the world that exists occurring on an ongoing basis.  think of it like a perpetual paul's boutique.
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I've looked at it that way, but never, ever thought of putting it as eloquently. It's a total re-creation of all things already existing. Paul's is a neat musical way to extrapolate that out to culture. It seems to be a condensed, in-joke, cut-and-paste pastiche of everything, with tweaks and additions, I guess. It's also incredibly derivative, but knowing the original and being able to trace the development is often important, especially in meme culture, from what I can gather. Often, there seem to be like three memes and two cultural touchstones or references at work with another.

Anyway, if I ever write and summarize, I'm stealing the Paul's example from you while giving credit to the mythical Long Ball Larry of the internet at FBG.

 
Ah, and LBL, you're gently telling me the whole premise is off because of the fragmentation of our culture and how their response reflects this fragmentation. Unlikely mass effect.

I see -- that would seem to really address a central problem in the thesis of the thread's question. That's fair, and excellent, too. 

I wonder what rises above the fragmentation or if we even want it to...I noticed your point in the thread the other day about never so much good music, never so much good being potentially missed...

 
Ilov80s said:
I mean more social media culture not the apps themselves- of which meme culture is apart 
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Gotcha. Yeah, those were all really good, as was LBL's disputation of the central thesis as possible or even desirable, which is fine...that's a great way to look at it. 

 
I'm not sure if it's the kids, but the Woke Hollywood movement will leave an impression for years. Not necessarily in the way they wanted it to. Pandering directly to the outrage culture will leave this era of movies looking almost like the blacksploitation era.  In that they just took established franchises and threw a woman in a male role of an established franchise just to appease the very vocal minority in the hopes of making a quick buck. 

Had they approached things differently and wrote more new an interesting stories with female leads, it would have been a much more innovative approach. Instead we get oceans 8, Ghostbusters 2016, Terminator Dark Fate, Female James Bond just because. Then you have other female roles ruined by beating the audience over the head with identity politics like Batwoman, Dr Who, and Star Wars. 

It'll be a weird time to look back on for movie and TV buffs in about 10-20 years.

 
Insein said:
I'm not sure if it's the kids, but the Woke Hollywood movement will leave an impression for years. Not necessarily in the way they wanted it to. Pandering directly to the outrage culture will leave this era of movies looking almost like the blacksploitation era.  In that they just took established franchises and threw a woman in a male role of an established franchise just to appease the very vocal minority in the hopes of making a quick buck. 

Had they approached things differently and wrote more new an interesting stories with female leads, it would have been a much more innovative approach. Instead we get oceans 8, Ghostbusters 2016, Terminator Dark Fate, Female James Bond just because. Then you have other female roles ruined by beating the audience over the head with identity politics like Batwoman, Dr Who, and Star Wars. 

It'll be a weird time to look back on for movie and TV buffs in about 10-20 years.
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We had a bit of consciousness-raising like that in the early '70s with race and class issues and in the mid-'70s with feminist themes. They do indeed stand out from the plot as almost "message" art, where the art is inseparable from the message.

But that's interesting. I wonder what people fifteen years from now will remember. 

 
There is a long history of movies not aging well when they intend to break cultural ground. I’m thinking A Gentleman’s Agreement or Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner. I think Dallas Buyers Club already looks bad. Leto won an Oscar for playing a very stereotypical Trans person. I can see how some of these gender swap franchise movies might have a similar feel in 15 years.

 
Though some of the best movies ever made were message pictures as well: In the Heat of the Night, Grapes of Wrath, 12 Angry Men, etc.

 
Ilov80s said:
Though some of the best movies ever made were message pictures as well: In the Heat of the Night, Grapes of Wrath, 12 Angry Men, etc.
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Confession: I've seen absolutely none of those so I can't talk about what distinguishes them from your average "message" movie.  

 
rockaction said:
I was thinking more creative endeavors, though. 
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Meme culture is as creative or more creative than many of the items you have listed in your OP.  It’s a synthesis of visuals with comedy, history, politics, science, whatever, all cooked up in the mind of a person to convey a message to a broad audience in a succinct and entertaining manner.  Top-tier creativity.

 
Gary Coal Man said:
Meme culture is as creative or more creative than many of the items you have listed in your OP.  It’s a synthesis of visuals with comedy, history, politics, science, whatever, all cooked up in the mind of a person to convey a message to a broad audience in a succinct and entertaining manner.  Top-tier creativity.
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Yeah, I was talking about social media as more like a utility provider, not as in content. I took ilov80s comment as a utility provider. I think quoting hagmania was denoting my agreement with meme culture as wildly creative. 

 
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Of course they have. It’s weird seeing these types of threads all over the place. You don’t see it because you’re living in it. You think it’s stupid just like older generations before. 

It’s done differently now. Nobody cares about MTV, it’s youtube and Instagram. 

 
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Gary Coal Man said:
Meme culture is as creative or more creative than many of the items you have listed in your OP.  It’s a synthesis of visuals with comedy, history, politics, science, whatever, all cooked up in the mind of a person to convey a message to a broad audience in a succinct and entertaining manner.  Top-tier creativity.
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All with incredible brevity. It’s the next evolution of the political cartoon/comic.

 
bigmarc27 said:
Of course they have. It’s weird seeing these types of threads all over the place. You don’t see it because you’re living in it. You think it’s stupid just like older generations before.
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Yeah, I was interested in having someone separate it out because I am older. I never said anything about it being stupid, nor do I feel that way. This is sort of a bend over backwards attempt not to see it as stupid. I think that's apparent in my responses, too. 

 
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bigmarc27 said:
Of course they have. It’s weird seeing these types of threads all over the place. You don’t see it because you’re living in it. You think it’s stupid just like older generations before. 
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Right, my dad always talked about how much his parents hated rock music and movies like The Graduate and Animal House. To the Boomers growing up in it, it was a revolution. To their Greatest Gen parents, it was loud, mindless and just a fad.

 
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rockaction said:
Yeah, I was interested in having someone separate it out because I am older. I never said anything about it being stupid, nor do I feel that way. This is sort of a bend over backwards attempt not to see it as stupid. I think that's apparent in my responses, too. 
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If you were able to see it now, you wouldn’t appreciate it anyway. I’m not saying that to be derogatory towards you, but it’s not meant for you. Just like glam rock wasn’t made for those who got back from Vietnam and Elvis wasn’t cool to those who grew up on Patsy Cline. 

 
rockaction said:
Confession: I've seen absolutely none of those so I can't talk about what distinguishes them from your average "message" movie.  
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Hard to say since art isn’t so easily explained. Another example might be Requiem for a Dream. It’s a blatant message picture but it’s also an incredible work of horror and art. 

 
MAC_32 said:
Yep - kids haven't changed, adults change.
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I think it's odd. I think the best macro response in this thread discussed the fragmentation of culture rendering the premise of the question moot while others have responded with:

  • You think it's dumb
  • Concrete examples
  • You're just not going to think it's cool regardless
:Shrugs: So then, where do we stand? Impossibility, me hating it, or concretized examples that don't quite break over into mass culture?

 
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Ilov80s said:
Though some of the best movies ever made were message pictures as well: In the Heat of the Night, Grapes of Wrath, 12 Angry Men, etc.
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I think because they were written with the main intention of the story surrounding the message. These movies today are merely hijacking established franchises to prop up a message that the audience for that story doesn't give a crap about.

 
FWIW, I think LBL's thesis might be self-confirming on my part and that BigMarc is right -- I'm literally swimming in it, I just don't realize it. 

 
Also I think the idea that anyone can be their own producer of media is a big thing. YouTube stars, podcasts, SoundCloud, Twitch, etc. There’s no need to be tied to a production company to become a big success and reach a large audience.

 
Insein said:
I think because they were written with the main intention of the story surrounding the message. These movies today are merely hijacking established franchises to prop up a message that the audience for that story doesn't give a crap about.
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That will be the ultimate tell, do the younger audiences care? I don’t think we know for sure yet.

 
Also FWIW, I think Childish Gambino's video back the past year and a half or so, "This Is America" was the closest thing that the generation below me had to a moment like The Who or the Woodstock bands, only this time it was about identity (no surprise). While I didn't understand it, and didn't expect to, there it was for all to see. 

 
Also, as much as we make fun of her, the girl that peed in the Spaghetti-Os and talked about Interior Semiotics had the late aughts/early teens dialed. I have no idea what that meant, but a certain faction of the generational enclave did. 

 
rockaction said:
Waiting for you to weigh in. Care to unpack that one? Didn't The Who, who I'm basing this on, quite overtly straddle that line, and straddle it effectively, both critically and mass culture-wise back in '65-'67?
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I've gone on quite enough on the de-evolution from citizen to customer, thank you. There's still more God to kill, but the altars to self currently being offered all around are simply more handy, attractive & portable. Nobody's disconnecting (and that will be my Exhibit A on why there's no art anymore for as long as this void prevails), reading the user agreement, contesting the bill and i'll be dead before that happens, so i'm just gonna watch. Don't look up.

 
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rockaction said:
So then, where do we stand? Impossibility, me hating it, or concretized examples that don't quite break over into mass culture?
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Be open minded to whatever they're doing/interested in - this is/was their age of peak developmental creativity.  Provide a good example, but when in doubt stay out of the way.  Understand that like us at the same age they are going to do a lot of dumb ####.  Don't stop them from those experiences, within reason anyway - teaching moments will be necessary, but be selective otherwise they will tune you out.  Then trust that once they come out the other side probably sometime in their late 20's/early 30's they'll be productive members of society.  When that time comes their pool isn't going to look much different than yours/ours and those before us - some will be dead, some will be fools, some will be thriving, some will finally be figuring it out, etc. If their pool does look different then it's probably more due to the adults at their time of developing and not the kids themselves.  Whatever they create will in of itself be different, but you'll be able to draw comparisons to similar events when you were whatever age they are.

 
wikkidpissah said:
I've gone on quite enough on the de-evolution from citizen to customer, thank you. There's still more God to kill, but the altars to self currently being offered all around are simply more handy, attractive & portable. Nobody's disconnecting (and that will be my Exhibit A for as long as this void prevails), reading the user agreement, contesting the bill and i'll be dead before that happens, so i'm just gonna watch. Don't look up.
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Save it for the movie club- we’ve got 2 films that I think touch on some of this 

 
rockaction said:
FWIW, I think LBL's thesis might be self-confirming on my part and that BigMarc is right -- I'm literally swimming in it, I just don't realize it. 
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I think that BigMarc certainly has a point which I was going to now make, about the fact that there is not a great way to know right now what is/will really have a seismic effect.  A lot of that can't be known until later.

Though I certainly didn't interpret anything you were saying as trying to suggest that the current time is any better or worse than any previous time.

 
rockaction said:
Also FWIW, I think Childish Gambino's video back the past year and a half or so, "This Is America" was the closest thing that the generation below me had to a moment like The Who or the Woodstock bands, only this time it was about identity (no surprise). While I didn't understand it, and didn't expect to, there it was for all to see. 
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Because he's mad at himself - the modern equivalent to being mad at God, i guess. "Who da #### am I? I get off on this as much as i'm revolted by it. What is that?!?!" seems to be the base of Glover's art (and i do think he's trying). Mastery has been democratized, which has robbed us of the humility & originality necessary to art. That, access, the fact that we've traded existential dread for buyer's remorse and the feminized denial that we are rage-based life forms saps the vitality of scope and effort. Our reaching power. Simple as that.

 
rockaction said:
Social media, I guess. I was thinking more creative endeavors, though. 
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There's a whole 'nother world of creative endeavors online that my kids partake in. That has largely replaced consumption of contemporary** popular music and television as Boomers and Gen-Xers knew it growing up. 

** I added "contemporary" because reaching back in time and latching on to music groups from the past is common in my daughter's cohort. They still listen to that old stuff in digital space, though. With very few exceptions, modern pop music hits are pretty much just background music for my kids, not cultural touchstones.

 
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rockaction said:
Simple question: Has the youth left their mark on popular consciousness the way it used to?  And I'm talking consumer culture, commercial culture, subculture, etc.?

All I see is festivals getting cancelled.

60s - rock n' roll, mods, rockers

70s - punk, disco

80s - new wave, synth pop

90s - grunge, hip hop (Native Tongue)

00s- ?

10s - ?
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Ask your mom?

 
The OP is kind of like a 50-year-old man in the mid-1970s wondering what radio serials the 70s kids are into?

"I mean, we had The Shadow, and Jack Benny, and Orson Welles, and Captain Midnight. What radio shows do kids today listen to, in 1975?"

Nothing against rockaction because I feel the losses that he feels, too. It's just that obsolescence is encroaching quickly on even the very media of many of our most cherished cultural touchstones.

 
To answer the original question, i would put the name of the current President - greatest performance artist of the age, his elevation the defining act of the culture - in the "10s-?" slot

 
wikkidpissah said:
Because he's mad at himself - the modern equivalent to being mad at God, i guess. "Who da #### am I? I get off on this as much as i'm revolted by it. What is that?!?!" seems to be the base of Glover's art (and i do think he's trying). Mastery has been democratized, which has robbed us of the humility & originality necessary to art. That, access, the fact that we've traded existential dread for buyer's remorse and the feminized denial that we are rage-based life forms saps the vitality of scope and effort. Our reaching power. Simple as that.
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Rage loses me as the creative impetus towards grandeur. I'd like to think the artistic impulse comes from venerated truth, as properly as can be understood. If that means, God, then so means it. 

 
Doug B said:
The OP is kind of like a 50-year-old man in the mid-1970s wondering what radio serials the 70s kids are into?

"I mean, we had The Shadow, and Jack Benny, and Orson Welles, and Captain Midnight. What radio shows do kids today listen to, in 1975?"

Nothing against rockaction because I feel the losses that he feels, too. It's just that obsolescence is encroaching quickly on even the very media of many of our most cherished cultural touchstones.
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Yep. This is why I'm reaching out. I don't even know the platforms.

As The Impossibles sang in "Hey You Kids"

Forget the format
Stop the format
Start the round and round

 
Good Posting Judge said:
Ask your mom?
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I have a niece and nephew that are right that age. I can't see anything that unifies them with kids their age. They're connected, but not. They have individual friends, certainly not a mass of them. I'm waiting on the nephew; he seems to be more geared towards that which is popular and social than the niece. 

 
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