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So how can we actually defeat Trump in 2020? (1 Viewer)

Jayrod

Footballguy
I'm not a regular in the political forum, but I'm in here enough to get a feel for things.

Clearly the majority of us do not want to see Donald Trump re-elected in 2020.  If you do want him re-elected, move along, this thread isn't for you.

My question is how to best do that?

I have two fears:

  1. Motivating angry voters to turn out in droves and vote for him again
  2. Nominating too polarizing of a candidate that discourages the centrist voters from even voting or pushes them 3rd party
I've been fairly active against #1.  I do live in a very pro-Trump area and I can tell you the barrage of media and social media telling people they are dumb, racist rednecks is absolutely a motivating factor in them wanting to see Trump stay in office.  That stuff needs to be limited/muted or you will see 2016 all over again.

#2 is a conundrum for me.  I just don't know the candidates well enough to know who scares the centrists.  Is Bernie too far left?  I liked Sanders last time around and think he could have beaten Trump.  Biden seems like a safe choice as well.  I know very little about Warren or Harris.  No one else seems to be gaining much traction.

What is the best political blueprint for taking the country out of the hands of Donald Trump?

 
I think you're listening too much to what Trumpers/Republicans want you do in regards to how to beat Trump.  Trumps voters are going to be angry and vote for him no matter how nice the message against the POTUS is.  Self censoring opinion and rebuttals against Trumps boorish attitude only helps mute what kind of deplorable person most think he is.  

 
I'm not a regular in the political forum, but I'm in here enough to get a feel for things.

Clearly the majority of us do not want to see Donald Trump re-elected in 2020.  If you do want him re-elected, move along, this thread isn't for you.

My question is how to best do that?

I have two fears:

  1. Motivating angry voters to turn out in droves and vote for him again
  2. Nominating too polarizing of a candidate that discourages the centrist voters from even voting or pushes them 3rd party
I've been fairly active against #1.  I do live in a very pro-Trump area and I can tell you the barrage of media and social media telling people they are dumb, racist rednecks is absolutely a motivating factor in them wanting to see Trump stay in office.  That stuff needs to be limited/muted or you will see 2016 all over again.

#2 is a conundrum for me.  I just don't know the candidates well enough to know who scares the centrists.  Is Bernie too far left?  I liked Sanders last time around and think he could have beaten Trump.  Biden seems like a safe choice as well.  I know very little about Warren or Harris.  No one else seems to be gaining much traction.

What is the best political blueprint for taking the country out of the hands of Donald Trump?
I don't think there's any kind of consensus on any of this.  My perspective on #1, though, is that the type of people you're talking about are likely to vote anyway and we shouldn't spend a lot of time trying to tiptoe around so we don't make them upset.   

 
I think you're listening too much to what Trumpers/Republicans want you do in regards to how to beat Trump.  Trumps voters are going to be angry and vote for him no matter how nice the message against the POTUS is.  Self censoring opinion and rebuttals against Trumps boorish attitude only helps mute what kind of deplorable person most think he is.  
I don't think going after Trump is the problem.  It is the extension to his voters or supporters that I think is the issue.  Calling them names is what pisses them off.

 
get illegally here people voting would help

seriously ..... the Democratic candidate that could talk tough on illegals, not be so hard on pro-abortion, not be anti-gun  ....  and denounce the radical socialists that are surrounding Talib and AOC etc ... such a candidate could potentially take enough voters from Trump 

if i were running against Trump? I'd try to attack his policies and not him ... people are hating this 4 years of anti-Trump hate

 
I don't think there's any kind of consensus on any of this.  My perspective on #1, though, is that the type of people you're talking about are likely to vote anyway and we shouldn't spend a lot of time trying to tiptoe around so we don't make them upset.   
Calling anyone that doesn't hate Trump a racist isn't tiptoeing.  Just use common sense and less name calling.

But hey, think what you want.  It worked out great in 2016.

 
I don't think going after Trump is the problem.  It is the extension to his voters or supporters that I think is the issue.  Calling them names is what pisses them off.
Meh. If they're pissed off they'll vote for Trump.  If they're not pissed off....they'll still vote for Trump...and it's not like they're coming into this equation from a moral high ground.  They have no problems throwing base accusations/words at rival politicians and their voters. 

I wouldn't be taking their feelings into consideration in regards to self censoring. 

 
Trumps voters are going to be angry and vote for him no matter how nice the message against the POTUS is.
I think a lot of people who voted for Trump in 2016 would prefer not to vote for him in 2020, but it will depend in part on who the alternative is. I suspect a lot of right-leaning people would vote for a left-leaning centrist over Trump, but would vote for Trump over an extreme leftist.

 
I think a lot of people who voted for Trump in 2016 would prefer not to vote for him in 2020, but it will depend in part on who the alternative is. I suspect a lot of right-leaning people would vote for a left-leaning centrist over Trump, but would vote for Trump over an extreme leftist.
I really see almost zero evidence that voters are capable of distinguishing between a "left-leaning centrist" and an "extreme leftist."  What are you basing this on?  

 
We need to win Wisconsin,, Michigan, and Pennsylvania. 

So let me put this simply and bluntly: we need to nominate a candidate WITHOUT a Medicare for All plan. In the end it will scare independents away, towards Trump. That eliminates Liz Warren and Bernie Sanders. 

 
1. Democratic candidates need to distance themselves from "The Squad" without alienating uber-libs. 

2. at least 15 Democratic candidates need to drop out of the race ASAP.

3. the Democratic candidates need to attack Trump's rhetoric without attacking Trump. (And I say "attack Trump's rhetoric" rather than "attack Trump's policies" because many of his policies are winning positions for conservatives.)

4. the Democratic candidates need to stop pushing for pie-in-the-sky liberal Christmas wishlists. 

 
I’d like to see a few things happen:

First, completely ignore Trump and his antics.  He is who we thought he was, possibly worse, and he’s not changing.  He thrives with attention (his election is the embodiment of “any publicity is good publicity”), take that power away and watch him flounder and self-destruct.  

Second, Congressional Dems, keep doing policy work, let your agenda for America speak for itself on that stage.  Dem candidates, focus on and provide a clear picture of your agenda for America, including policy initiatives.  Let your ideas be the obvious counter to Trump ideas/policies.  Avoid “anything but Trump”, avoid Trump, talk about how the Democratic agenda works for America. 

Lastly, once the actual nominee is selected, rally around that individual and promote them for their political ideals and contrast that to the Republican platform and guidance under Trump.  Here you can attack him 

 
I think a lot of people who voted for Trump in 2016 would prefer not to vote for him in 2020, but it will depend in part on who the alternative is. I suspect a lot of right-leaning people would vote for a left-leaning centrist over Trump, but would vote for Trump over an extreme leftist.
Totally agree. Extreme left will bring out more votes for Trump.  I have no problem with Omar and Cortez speaking their minds, my only problem is I worry they are helping Trump get more votes. Still think Biden wins easily against Trump, the others are a toss-up.

 
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We need to win Wisconsin,, Michigan, and Pennsylvania. 

So let me put this simply and bluntly: we need to nominate a candidate WITHOUT a Medicare for All plan. In the end it will scare independents away, towards Trump. That eliminates Liz Warren and Bernie Sanders. 
Why do we think that independents are more opposed to single payer (pick any progressive idea, really) than they might be to Trump's over the top racism?

 
1) Pick a safe candidate   Biden agreeing to one term with a succession plan to a VP like Mayor Pete that needs experience   

2) Pelosi needs to reign in the Squad   They are giving Trump and talk radio daily fodder   

3) Avoid all Trump’s bait  Laugh it off and don’t try to show him up  

4) Speak to moderates about unification.  

5) Don't touch controversial topics like reparations and healthcare for illegals 

 
Get the ticket established as Mayor Pete and Amy Klobuchar as quickly as possible.  Quiet adult competence while embracing pluralism and the midwest .  Gain endorsements from Biden and Harris and imply a place in the administration for both.  Maybe Secretary of State for Biden and AG for Harris (African Americans might embrace Buttigeig quickly if they thought he would have an African American as the Chief Law Enforcement Officer in the country.) .  Address policy as opposed to the personality.  Buttigeig and Kolobuchar do not need to contrast their style or integrity with his, the contrast is so glaring it will speak for itself. Attack perpetuates the cycle.  Reconciliation would be so unexpected at this point as to be disarming.  Work the ground game with the youth.  Remember they have been out there working to register ever since the Florida school shooting.  Do not make them a centerpiece, but find a seat at the adult table for those kids.

Election won.  

 
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Get the ticket established as mayor Pete and Amy Klobuchar as quickly as possible.  Quiet adult competence and embracing pluralism and the midwest .  Gain endorsements from Biden and Harris and imply a place in the administration for both.  Maybe Secretary of State and AG  (African Americans might embrace Buttigeig quickly if they thought he would have an African American as th echief Law Enforcement officer in the country.) .  Address policy as opposed to the personality.  Buttigeig and Kolobuchar do not need to contrast their style or integrity with his, the contrast is so glaring it will speak for itself. Attack perpetuates the cycle.  Reconciliation would be so unexpected at this point as to be disarming.  Work the ground game with the youth.  Remember they have been out there working to register ever since the Florida school shooting.  do not make them a centerpiece, but find a seat at the adult table for those kids.

Election won.  
This ain't bad. And I'm practically a pinko.

Job Number One is beating Trump. We'll rassle about the rate of progressive change after that.

 
I’ll offer you some you Anti Trump guys some advice because I’m feeling generous this Friday-

1. Don’t nominate Joe Biden.  

2. Start preparing for Nikki Haley in 2024 if you can’t follow the first step.

 
Discuss the issues. Discuss civility and world standing. Discuss the future and where we want to be/go as a country. Have and showcase a plan.

Quit bickering with Trump. It's pointless, useless, immature, and plays into his games. Allow Trump to continue to make a fool of himself.

 
Get the ticket established as mayor Pete and Amy Klobuchar as quickly as possible.  Quiet adult competence and embracing pluralism and the midwest .  Gain endorsements from Biden and Harris and imply a place in the administration for both.  Maybe Secretary of State and AG  (African Americans might embrace Buttigeig quickly if they thought he would have an African American as th echief Law Enforcement officer in the country.) .  Address policy as opposed to the personality.  Buttigeig and Kolobuchar do not need to contrast their style or integrity with his, the contrast is so glaring it will speak for itself. Attack perpetuates the cycle.  Reconciliation would be so unexpected at this point as to be disarming.  Work the ground game with the youth.  Remember they have been out there working to register ever since the Florida school shooting.  do not make them a centerpiece, but find a seat at the adult table for those kids.

Election won.  
Buttigieg should hire you. The Harris for AG idea is particularly inspired.

 
Buttigieg should hire you. The Harris for AG idea is particularly inspired.
Mayor Pete should hire Henry Ford and Sinn Fein.  Then he would get guys smarter and more dedicated to his principles.  Me, I am that blind squirrel who occasionally happens upon an acorn. 

 
Mayor Pete is my favorite candidate but he’s got no shot. This election runs through South Carolina. Black voters will decide the candidate. 

That means Biden, Harris or Warren. You might as well forget everybody else. 

 
Job Number One is beating Trump. We'll rassle about the rate of progressive change after that.
I feel like this is a trap though.  Yes, we all agree that the most important thing is beating Trump.  But this also feels like a rare opportunity to elect someone like Warren who might have trouble getting elected against the type of candidate that Republicans have historically had.  I personally don't think Warren's chances to win are all that different from any of the more centrist candidates so it makes sense to me to support her.  Of course this is all based on my own biases, people like timschochet seem to think Warren or Sanders have a much worse chance of winning than someone like Biden.  If I believed that I'd be more inclined to support Biden or someone like him.

 
Mayor Pete is my favorite candidate but he’s got no shot. This election runs through South Carolina. Black voters will decide the candidate. 

That means Biden, Harris or Warren. You might as well forget everybody else. 
In years past it might go through SC. But now it goes through California who's primary is 7 days after. The talk will all center around who has momentum and polling going on in Cali. SC won't register a blip inside that noise.

 
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 Because in the end the racism doesn’t affect them personally. 
Bigotry and intolerance affects everyone. The evidence is the progress we've made over the decades re: equal rights for various minority groups.

But if you're right, then it means the country really doesn't care about how awful the man at the top is if it might cost them a couple of extra tax dollars.

 
As I mentioned previously, I and others like me were not particularly political. I voted third party in 2016 and I've missed presidential elections in the past for various weak reasons (largely bc I was apathetic). But trump's incompetence has motivated people like us to get out and vote blue in 2018 and vote for whatever blue candidate will be there in 2020. His supporters came out in full force in 2016 and still lost the popular vote. He detractors will be out in force this time. I wouldn't be surprised to see some unexpected states swing blue. His approval ratings are down from his election and, while most of his supporters will never leave, he IS losing some with his racist comments. Even if he wasn't, I think he'd lose, but that's just icing on top of the cake.

Anecdotally, I know a few people who voted for trump that won't do it again. I know zero people that voted against him that have changed their minds.

I don't mean to instill confidence, because we should all be out there voting like our lives count on it... because many of us are young enough that things like climate change and the federal deficit are going to screw with us.

 
I feel like this is a trap though.  Yes, we all agree that the most important thing is beating Trump.  But this also feels like a rare opportunity to elect someone like Warren who might have trouble getting elected against the type of candidate that Republicans have historically had.  I personally don't think Warren's chances to win are all that different from any of the more centrist candidates so it makes sense to me to support her.  Of course this is all based on my own biases, people like timschochet seem to think Warren or Sanders have a much worse chance of winning than someone like Biden.  If I believed that I'd be more inclined to support Biden or someone like him.
I totally understand what you're saying. But I think 2020 is the last gasp for the Trump voting types; demographic changes means the GOP has to veer back towards moderation to be relevant down the road. Whoever can beat Donald can start to right the ship and we can keep working for progressive policies for years to come. Lose and the progressive movement is set back for far more than just the four years Trump holds office. Like Reagan tearing the solar panels off the White House, he'll wreck things for decades (and continue to encourage our worst instincts).

 
This should work better in the correct thread....

Hammer him on his record.

  • Our health insurance is worse now then when he took office with no plan to move forward
  • No progress on infrastructure
  • His foreign policies are an utter failure (southern border, North Korea, Iran)
  • His trade wars have been a huge failure
  • His record on the environment
  • His destruction of democratic norms
  • The coddling of dictators and enemies of the country while alienating our allies
  • His lack of willingness to confront meaningful, bipartisan,  immigration reform.
And most of all, stop the damned in-fighting. There is only 1 opponent. If the Dems can't win running against that record, they don't deserve to win.

 
 Whoever can beat Donald can start to right the ship and we can keep working for progressive policies for years to come. Lose and the progressive movement is set back for far more than just the four years Trump holds office. 
Agree with all of this, but this advice is only useful if we know which candidates are most likely to beat Trump, and how much more likely they are than other potential nominees.

 
This should work better in the correct thread....

Hammer him on his record.

  • Our health insurance is worse now then when he took office with no plan to move forward
  • No progress on infrastructure
  • His foreign policies are an utter failure (southern border, North Korea, Iran)
  • His trade wars have been a huge failure
  • His record on the environment
  • His destruction of democratic norms
  • The coddling of dictators and enemies of the country while alienating our allies
  • His lack of willingness to confront meaningful, bipartisan,  immigration reform.
And most of all, stop the damned in-fighting. There is only 1 opponent. If the Dems can't win running against that record, they don't deserve to win.
A bunch of these hit home with the under-30 voters and I can't stress how important I think their turnout will be (we've talked elsewhere about how their participation rocketed upwards last November, a terrible sign for The Don). Futhermore, Trump bragging about the economy won't resonate hardly at all with that gen, because they haven't been prospering from it like the older generations have.

 
A bunch of these hit home with the under-30 voters and I can't stress how important I think their turnout will be (we've talked elsewhere about how their participation rocketed upwards last November, a terrible sign for The Don). Futhermore, Trump bragging about the economy won't resonate hardly at all with that gen, because they haven't been prospering from it like the older generations have.
Totally agree. The under-30 voters are the ones saddled with 6-figure college debt. They have a very hard time buying a new car, saving/buying a house or start a family. And they're the ones furthest away from realizing any benefit from an increase in their 401K.

 
I could not run away fast enough from any ticket rumored to be contemplating this.
I do not hold her in high regard either.  Still, I think it would garner voter support overall, but what do I know.  It would be window dressing to appease or attract votes, it would not necessarily, or even to a remote likelihood be the best choice as to experience and legal acumen.  

 
Bigotry and intolerance affects everyone. The evidence is the progress we've made over the decades re: equal rights for various minority groups.

But if you're right, then it means the country really doesn't care about how awful the man at the top is if it might cost them a couple of extra tax dollars.
We’re not talking about the country. We’re talking about a few thousand independents in Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania who voted for Trump last time around, knowing about the bigotry. We need to change their minds. 

 
A bunch of these hit home with the under-30 voters and I can't stress how important I think their turnout will be (we've talked elsewhere about how their participation rocketed upwards last November, a terrible sign for The Don).
This is very true:

In 2014, IOP estimates that approximately 10.8 million young Americans voted (Democrats preferred, 54 percent-43 percent), compared to 14.7 million in 2018 (Democrats preferred, 67 percent-32 percent). The actual number of Republican votes cast by those under age 30 remained stable from 2014 to 2018, while nearly all of the nearly 4 million increase in turnout came from those supporting Democrats. 

 
In years past it might go through SC. But now it goes through California who's primary is 7 days after. The talk will all center around who has momentum and polling going on in Cali. SC won't register a blip inside that noise.
This was my theory a few months ago. But two things: 

1. South Carolina will absolutely affect who has momentum going into California. 

2. California isn’t winner takes all. So it is much more likely that we will simply cement the storyline already existing rather than create a new one. 

 
We’re not talking about the country. We’re talking about a few thousand independents in Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania who voted for Trump last time around, knowing about the bigotry. We need to change their minds. 
Or attract a slightly larger segment of new voters than the past margin of defeat.  Frankly I think that is a nearly forgone conclusion, but I do understand why many want to take nothing for granted this time around.

 
We’re not talking about the country. We’re talking about a few thousand independents in Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania who voted for Trump last time around, knowing about the bigotry. We need to change their minds. 
Actually it was the Obama inner city voters(Detroit and Milwaukee) that stayed home. Get that turnout up to the Obama numbers and they win those states - certainly Michigan and Wisconsin

 
This should work better in the correct thread....

Hammer him on his record.

  • Our health insurance is worse now then when he took office with no plan to move forward
  • No progress on infrastructure
  • His foreign policies are an utter failure (southern border, North Korea, Iran)
  • His trade wars have been a huge failure
  • His record on the environment
  • His destruction of democratic norms
  • The coddling of dictators and enemies of the country while alienating our allies
  • His lack of willingness to confront meaningful, bipartisan,  immigration reform.
And most of all, stop the damned in-fighting. There is only 1 opponent. If the Dems can't win running against that record, they don't deserve to win.
I can see how these ideas would appeal to Democrats and left-leaning independents, but they actually play right into Trump's hands:

  • "Health insurance is worse because the libs won't let me replace the disaster known as Obamacare!"
  • "Infrastructure is just fine. I fixed all the wasteful spending and rebuilt the military!"
  • "Foreign policy is just fine. Hillary would have started a war with Russia, North Korea or Iran. I saved the country from war!"
  • "Nobody loves the environment more than me!"
  • "The libs are the ones who want to destroy democracy! That's why they tried to steal the 2016 election! EMAILS!"
  • "I'm tougher than anyone on dictators. Besides, what's wrong with having a good relationship with other countries? I'm saving the country from World War 3!!"
  • "I've always been willing to be bipartisan, but the libs want open borders and crime and we can't allow that."
There's no way to attack him on policy because there are too many independents who truly believe that his "policies" are good and that they are working.

 
Refer to Trump constantly as the Pornstar President.

Crowbar in whenever you can how he was banging pornstars while his wife was at home with newborn baby.  On the debate stage this should be brought up.  It should be addressed to Trump when the head to head debate happens.  He will squirm and have no answer.  

This should be a constant talking point like crooked hillary and emails.

Cheating and porn repulse white woman and old religious righties.  Depress their turnout.

 
I feel like this is a trap though.  Yes, we all agree that the most important thing is beating Trump.  But this also feels like a rare opportunity to elect someone like Warren who might have trouble getting elected against the type of candidate that Republicans have historically had.  I personally don't think Warren's chances to win are all that different from any of the more centrist candidates so it makes sense to me to support her.  Of course this is all based on my own biases, people like timschochet seem to think Warren or Sanders have a much worse chance of winning than someone like Biden.  If I believed that I'd be more inclined to support Biden or someone like him.
It’s all guesswork, on my part and on yours. I feel the same as you: if I was convinced that Warren was the one to beat him I’d jump on that. 

But for me I think it’s more than my own biases. I simply believe that if the election is a referendum on Trump we win. But if it becomes a referendum on new progressive ideas we may lose. It’s as simple as that. 

 
Actually it was the Obama inner city voters(Detroit and Milwaukee) that stayed home. Get that turnout up to the Obama numbers and they win those states - certainly Michigan and Wisconsin
And suburban women. 

But you’re right and I think black voters are coming out no matter what happens- perhaps even exceeding Obama numbers. I think the Doug Jones election was a forewarning of what’s coming. 

 

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