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Mueller Testimony - July 24 (1 Viewer)

S

Sinn Fein

Footballguy
Call me a hypocrite - but I think this probably deserves its own thread.

I am fairly confident the GOP will look foolish during these hearings - I am about 50/50 as to whether the Dems will also look foolish.

DOJ gets honors for already looking foolish before the hearings start.

 
If I were running the Dem's questioning - I would avoid all the "expected" questions.

Mueller won't answer the questions directly.  He won't say Trump is guilty of obstruction, or that he (Mueller) would have charged him if not for the OLC memo.  I think it is a waste of time to even ask.

Instead - I would follow a template where you get Mueller to identify the elements of an obstruction charge:

"Three basic elements are common to most of the relevant obstruction statutes: (1) an obstructive act; (2) a nexus between the obstructive act and an official proceeding; and (3) a corrupt intent." 

Then, for each fact pattern set out in the Mueller Report - simply ask if the facts alleged, if true, amount to an obstructive act.  Then ask if there is a nexus between those acts and an official proceeding.  Then recite facts from the report, and ask, if true, would those facts demonstrate a corrupt intent.

That gets around Mueller having to say directly what he does not want to say.

I might want to ask him - early in the session - who has the responsibility for making the final determination on whether Trump obstructed justice (hint:  its congress)

 
Bucky86 said:
I don’t think he says much. Sounds like he is going to follow the DOJ guide to what he is allowed to say. 
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That’s a whole lot. 

Plus, as I noted in the other thread, I expect him to reveal that Don Jr threatened to take the 5th if he was subpoenaed about the Trump Tower meeting. That alone would be a game changer. 

 
Honest question:  what could this hearing change?  It’s a bit rhetorical, a bit defeatist, and definitely cynical, but at this point what could Mueller’s verbal words accomplish that his written ones didn’t?  I don’t think I buy into the viewpoint of “for the electorate” with regards to why this is happening; without a crime, I don’t believe it is Congress’ job to simply highlight how shady a character Trump is.  After tomorrow, will the House definitively say yay or nay to impeachment?

 
That one guy said:
Honest question:  what could this hearing change?  It’s a bit rhetorical, a bit defeatist, and definitely cynical, but at this point what could Mueller’s verbal words accomplish that his written ones didn’t?  I don’t think I buy into the viewpoint of “for the electorate” with regards to why this is happening; without a crime, I don’t believe it is Congress’ job to simply highlight how shady a character Trump is.  After tomorrow, will the House definitively say yay or nay to impeachment?
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Its all about headlines and soundbites.

That is all this nation has the capacity to take on right now.  Virtually no one - including many members of congress and probably a few of the members who will be in each hearing - have read, nor will read, the report.  But they will see the headlines, and they will see anything that goes viral on the book of faces, and the instant grams.

 
Sinn Fein said:
Call me a hypocrite - but I think this probably deserves its own thread.

I am fairly confident the GOP will look foolish during these hearings - I am about 50/50 as to whether the Dems will also look foolish.

DOJ gets honors for already looking foolish before the hearings start.
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If Jim Jordan is involved he will look stupid.

 
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The General said:
If Jim Jordan is involved he will look stupid.
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I think Jordon v. Mueller will be fun to watch - in a pretzel-twisting kind of way.  Best soundbites of the day will come from this exchange - imo.

I think the Dems will struggle also - but not necessarily in a comedic sense - they will just be frustrated that Mueller won't say exactly what they want him to say - and I predict they won't be able to figure out how to get the information they want indirectly.

 
Sinn Fein said:
I think Jordon v. Mueller will be fun to watch - in a pretzel-twisting kind of way.  Best soundbites of the day will come from this exchange - imo.

I think the Dems will struggle also - but not necessarily in a comedic sense - they will just be frustrated that Mueller won't say exactly what they want him to say - and I predict they won't be able to figure out how to get the information they want indirectly.
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Mueller isn't expected to answer anything new right?

I'd expect the Jordan types will use this to their advantage, hopefully Mueller doesn't just sit there and take it I suspect he will.

 
Barbara McQuade has 10 questions for Mueller: https://www.thedailybeast.com/10-questions-congress-should-ask-mueller-when-he-testifies

4 of the questions can be related to Barr and his statements:

What were the key findings of your investigation?

How was your investigation impeded?

Did Barr ask you to end the investigation before you thought it was ready?

Have you seen anything about the predication for the case that causes you to believe that it is necessary to investigate the investigators?

 
Jackstraw said:
I'm not really picking up much buzz in the grassroots. The media will tizzy themselves up of course. 
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I don't know. Two threads today with Mueller in the title...I'd say the grassroots are going to be attuned. 

I also don't think they'll be that disappointed. I think Mueller will professionally lay out a case that will undermine the President's claims, and likely rightfully so.  

 
rockaction said:
I don't know. Two threads today with Mueller in the title...I'd say the grassroots are going to be attuned. 

I also don't think they'll be that disappointed. I think Mueller will professionally lay out a case that will undermine the President's claims, and likely rightfully so.  
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I'm going to follow up on twitter. Any scenario with me watching live, ends in veins popping screaming at the TV most likely. I have low expectations. I never would have thought we were going to get the Riddler with this Mueller. 

For me at a minimum would be to legitimize the actions Russia took and put some pressure on congress to work more on election security. But clearly McConnell is going to leave our asses hanging out because nothing matters anymore. 

 
Jackstraw said:
I'm going to follow up on twitter. Any scenario with me watching live, ends in veins popping screaming at the TV most likely. I have low expectations. I never would have thought we were going to get the Riddler with this Mueller. 

For me at a minimum would be to legitimize the actions Russia took and put some pressure on congress to work more on election security. But clearly McConnell is going to leave our asses hanging out because nothing matters anymore. 
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I think you know I'm conservative. I'm genuinely surprised at the level of political nihilism they've allowed. It's...odd and troubling.  

 
SoBeDad said:
Barbara McQuade has 10 questions for Mueller: https://www.thedailybeast.com/10-questions-congress-should-ask-mueller-when-he-testifies

4 of the questions can be related to Barr and his statements:

What were the key findings of your investigation?

How was your investigation impeded?

Did Barr ask you to end the investigation before you thought it was ready?

Have you seen anything about the predication for the case that causes you to believe that it is necessary to investigate the investigators?
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You don't ask a question like "what were the key findings in your investigation".  He'll just say read the summaries.  For the dems to make any hay out of this they need to do what SF said upstream.

 
Sinn Fein said:
Call me a hypocrite - but I think this probably deserves its own thread.

I am fairly confident the GOP will look foolish during these hearings - I am about 50/50 as to whether the Dems will also look foolish.

DOJ gets honors for already looking foolish before the hearings start.
Click to expand...
The format nearly guarantees there will be no flow or consistent line of inquiry and that politicians, addicted to attention as they are, will put their addiction ahead of an insightful inquiry.

 
Sinn Fein said:
Call me a hypocrite - but I think this probably deserves its own thread.

I am fairly confident the GOP will look foolish during these hearings - I am about 50/50 as to whether the Dems will also look foolish.

DOJ gets honors for already looking foolish before the hearings start.
Click to expand...
Interesting, I think it will be the opposite. Dems will come out looking worse IMO. We will have to wait and see.

 
timschochet said:
I think they should invite Ben Stein to be a guest questioner. Just in case Mueller doesn’t show up. 
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If he does and he answers correctly could he win Ben Stein's money?

Also, In Ferris Buelller's day off how does the home rule roll call go from the "A"'s to the "B"'s and then skip directly to the "F"'s when he calls Cameron Fry?   

 
Max Power said:
Interesting, I think it will be the opposite. Dems will come out looking worse IMO. We will have to wait and see.
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I think the Dems will be frustrated by not getting Mueller to say what they want him to say.

I think the GOP will look foolish going after Mueller trying to discredit him.

I could be wrong on both counts :shrug:

 
Apparently, the Republican House members had a "mock trail" to prepare for tomorrow's hearing. They certainly seem worried.

 
Sinn Fein said:
I think the GOP will look foolish going after Mueller trying to discredit him.
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I don't think the GOP will go after Mueller. Their goal is to discredit Democrats without generating any sympathy from undecided voters who respect Mueller's independent status.

It seems to me that the GOP's strategy will be to get Mueller to make a bunch of bland "Please refer to the report" statements, which will allow Republicans to grandstand and say "THIS HEARING IS A FARCE!"

 
Bucky86 said:
RUH ROH.

Confirmed: Robert Mueller has asked that his longtime right-hand aide Aaron Zebley to be sworn in as a witness during Wednesday’s hearing with the House Judiciary Committee. Dems are weighing the request which has alarmed GOP.
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I saw this elsewhere and I don't understand how this development "alarms" the GOP.

 
roadkill1292 said:
I saw this elsewhere and I don't understand how this development "alarms" the GOP.
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Because they don't want the truth out there. 

ETA I'm sure it was their plan to paint Mueller as a far left wing partisan liberal the way they do every republican that dares speak out against this criminal.  It's harder to do I guess when there's another person to refute their accusations. 

 
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roadkill1292 said:
I saw this elsewhere and I don't understand how this development "alarms" the GOP.
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I suspect it's because Zebley is a private citizen now.  Even though Mueller doesn't have to abide by the letter telling him to stick to the report he probably will because of his job.  Zelbey doesn't have that sort of concern.  

 
Sheriff Bart said:
Because they don't want the truth out there. 

ETA I'm sure it was their plan to paint Mueller as a far left wing partisan liberal the way they do every republican that dares speak out against this criminal.  It's harder to do I guess when there's another person to refute their accusations. 
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The Commish said:
I suspect it's because Zebley is a private citizen now.  Even though Mueller doesn't have to abide by the letter telling him to stick to the report he probably will because of his job.  Zelbey doesn't have that sort of concern.  
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I saw the initial information in a tweet, a tweet which hasn't been fleshed out yet so I don't know how or if the GOP actually is "alarmed." Nor why they would have reason to be. This is not the same thing as saying I don't think your stated reasons here are wrong. Until one of our board's Trump supporters sounds the alarm -- or starts trashing this Zebley fellow -- I can't be sure that the story is even true.

 
roadkill1292 said:
I saw the initial information in a tweet, a tweet which hasn't been fleshed out yet so I don't know how or if the GOP actually is "alarmed." Nor why they would have reason to be. This is not the same thing as saying I don't think your stated reasons here are wrong. Until one of our board's Trump supporters sounds the alarm -- or starts trashing this Zebley fellow -- I can't be sure that the story is even true.
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If it matters, Jordan was pissing and moaning that this request came in last minute, but he has the thought process of a gnat, so I'm not sure what his reaction tells us.

 
Bucky86 said:
RUH ROH.

Confirmed: Robert Mueller has asked that his longtime right-hand aide Aaron Zebley to be sworn in as a witness during Wednesday’s hearing with the House Judiciary Committee. Dems are weighing the request which has alarmed GOP.
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I’m not even sure what this means. Is he a witness there to confirm some of the events that Mueller expects to be asked about? Or maybe a witness to something that Mueller plans to enter into the record himself?

 
Maybe this Zebley fellow conducted some interviews without Mueller's presence and Mueller simply wishes the investigating committee to be able to hear certain items first hand.

We'll know how scared Republicans are if many of them jump on the ren bandwagon and start trashing combat veteran and Bronze Star winner Bob Mueller, implying that he is unfit to investigate President 4F.

 
ren hoek said:
No smears, just facts.  No worries, just grossed out that a corrupt security state official could become a liberal superhero 
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Shocking that no Republican made this accusation when Mueller was named Special Counsel. Instead it was nothing but praise and what great selection he was. I wonder what change that he's now "an angry Democrat" and "corrupt"?

 
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