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Mueller Testimony - July 24 (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Sinn Fein
- Start date
HellToupee
Footballguy
Mario Kart
Footballguy
All I know is, if I wrote a book that was 400 pages long with footnotes, end notes, and crib notes, and someone asked me a question on page 178, paragraph 2, I'm going to know that answer straight away with no context behind it at all. In fact, ask me what the 59 word on that page is and I will know most definitely.
If I am unable to recall the answer in a matter of a minute then you have every right to call me old, confused, and/or bewildered. Yup, that kind of justice is so warranted.
If I am unable to recall the answer in a matter of a minute then you have every right to call me old, confused, and/or bewildered. Yup, that kind of justice is so warranted.
identikit
Footballguy
HellToupee
Footballguy
Exactly. But I’m sure you would recall a character or plot in your book, don’t you agree? You might even remember what plot devices you used in a certain chapter when asked
Mario Kart
Footballguy
Depends. The Cat in the Hat, sure. The Fellowship of the Ring, probably not. The Mueller report has many details, possibly some that only show up once. Also, if there was a clear cut answer, Mueller is smart enough to answer a question that doesn't hold him to any discrete determination that the questioner may want to go towards. Mueller's answers were mostly objective with few of his answers clear cut. Mueller answered the questions accordingly to the benefit that he could. Had Mueller answered something in the affirmative about a law being broken or someone lying... Mueller is up #### creek. Mueller answered accordingly and to the best that he could given the restraints he had on him.
I mentioned yesterday in a post, not on foam board, that the Dems and Mueller were speaking a different language that many may not understand, unfortunately.
sho nuff
Footballguy
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Don't Noonan
Footballguy
sho nuff
Footballguy
I thought it totally exonerated Trump?
And why would that make it a sham?
You realize they were not used as a basis of information, right? Or within the scope of his work?
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Don't Noonan
Footballguy
Again, no one said it totally exonerated Trump. Not sure why you guys keep echoing Trump.
Not investigating a firm that provided a proven false anti-Trump dossier paid for by the opposition party and used to get a FISA application to spy on a political rival seems like something one should look into.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Sure they did...Trump himself said it as did others .
A. Proven false? Citation needed. And how was that in the scope of his investigation?
B. Others can get into this again, but as has been discussed many times, it was not used to get a FISA application. And again that isn't in the scope of the investigation.
Mario Kart
Footballguy
The Lord of the Rings movies sucked because Tom Bombadil was not in them. Therefore, his omission proves those movies to be a sham.
Seriously, a conspiracy theory detail need not be in an official report to satisfy the masses. That'd be like having Anti-Vaxxers on prime time with doctors to give them "equal" time or, sadly, giving Climate Change Deniers "equal" time just because they have a thought they want to share.
Seriously, a conspiracy theory detail need not be in an official report to satisfy the masses. That'd be like having Anti-Vaxxers on prime time with doctors to give them "equal" time or, sadly, giving Climate Change Deniers "equal" time just because they have a thought they want to share.
Don't Noonan
Footballguy
sho nuff
Footballguy
Wrigley
Footballguy
The prosecutor was disbarred, while the AG dropped all charges, declaring them innocent
boots11234
Footballguy
This is the best news to come out of the Mueller hearings yet for the democrats: Hearing Ratings A Bust!! LOL. Hopefully enough didn't watch to see just how big of a JOKE this thing has been from the start.
Im sure there's enough of you going to keep that torch burning however. KEEP IT ALIVE!!
Im sure there's enough of you going to keep that torch burning however. KEEP IT ALIVE!!
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yak651
Footballguy
Well yeah, most Trump haters were working, they didn't have time to watch it. Should've ran this during prime time.
identikit
Footballguy
Snorkelson
Footballguy
The AG is a prosecutor. The bold is the exoneration part. (What makes it an example of exoneration is that he actually did proclaim them "innocent" rather than just talking about "insufficient evidence of guilt.")
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Mario Kart
Footballguy
Do you know the origin as to why Mueller was to begin the investigation? Meaning, the purpose Mueller was brought on?
OrtonToOlsen
Footballguy
Doug B
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Cohen, Comey & Mueller together drew 48 million. Congratulations.
- It’s interesting there was strong viewership among Foxites.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
The country called on this man to investigate the president of the US, a conspiracy spanning three countries, a financial empire of murky and seedy (and international) depths, in a situation where the main target could not be indicted, where nearly everyone lied or pleaded the Fifth or refused to make themselves available, where there was a joint defense agreement featuring 37 (!) witnesses subjects and targets, where the boss was a precedent setting authoritarian interfering almost every day (no exaggeration) and held pardon power (!), where the AG himself was a witness and his two successors acted as personal attorneys for the main target, involving crimes that had never been researched much less prosecuted before, in a hyperpartisan atmosphere where one party was completely supine and the other seemingly feckless. What a titanic test. And when he appeared to give his attestation to his extensive report? The reviews were not telegenic enough, halting, not rehearsed. Bloody hell.
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Sand
Footballguy
I guess it's different in my area - multi-million dollar NASA stuff (i.e. on par with the complexity here) and there is always a point guy.
If you're talking about Mueller he did a walkback after lunch. If you're talking about DJT, well, there's no telling what's going to come out of that guy's mouth.yeah but he said it or something close to it.
Sand
Footballguy
That isn't exactly the standard bearer, now is it? It's not just that he says random crap, but some of it is off the wall and the rest is either wrong or completely counterproductive.
Sand
Footballguy
Considering they're all Bible toting, shotgun clutching, backwoods hicks that's pretty surprising. Are there that many in the electrified areas of the country?
Henry Ford
Footballguy
I don’t know what you do for NASA, but in the legal realm it’s just different from that. Especially with the question you’re talking about, which had multiple potential answers given the sentence in question.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
They all have generators to turn the TV on for Wrestlemania, Judge Judy, and football games.
identikit
Footballguy
apalmer
Footballguy
Who said it was proven false and used to get a FISA application to spy on a political rival? Not sure why you guys keep echoing Trump.
apalmer
Footballguy
So there's one guy who can appear at a hearing and explain the calculation of the flight path of the rocket, the programming code used in the computers, the nutritional value of the food provided for the trip, the effects of the stress and g-forces during launch on the human body, the physics of the fuel combustion and resultant thrust, and a million other things? Who is this genius?
timschochet
Footballguy
Did you ever see him in the 90s? I figure he must have had bypass surgery. Good for him.
identikit
Footballguy
I did not know this:
In 2002 and 2003, Nadler had laparoscopic duodenal switch surgery, helping him lose more than 100 pounds.
Sheriff Bart
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
HellToupee
Footballguy
Zinger!!!!!!
And there's a taste in my mouth as desperation takes hold
And there's a taste in my mouth as desperation takes hold
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
Have you heard the cover of this song by Oysterband? They’re a British traditional folk band and they do a slow acoustic cover- it’s one of the prettiest things I’ve ever heard. Check it out if you can find it.HellToupee said:Zinger!!!!!!
And there's a taste in my mouth as desperation takes hold
ren hoek
Footballguy
Liberals, it's time to forget the Mueller-fuelled impeachment fantasies
The Democratic obsession with Mueller is symptomatic of a party that’s lost touch with the real concerns of working people
The Democratic obsession with Mueller is symptomatic of a party that’s lost touch with the real concerns of working people
What a time-wasting farce this has all been. Robert Mueller’s confused, lethargic testimony before Congress this week confirmed how foolish Democrats have been to hope Mueller would “bring down” Donald Trump. For years, people have hoped that Mueller would swoop in like a “deus ex machina” with blockbuster charges against the president. For years, it has also been obvious that this would not happen, and that defeating Trump would require the traditional hard work of political organizing. Now that Mueller has conclusively showed that the Russia investigation was a pitiful sideshow, perhaps Democrats can finally get back to the issues that Americans actually care about.
It’s embarrassing to recall just how absurdly some people elevated Mueller, and how much faith was placed in him. Memes compared Mueller to Superman, or portrayed him as a top cop who was secretly fitting Trump for an orange jumpsuit. He appeared on votive candles and earrings. SNL sang him a Christmas carol. There was an action figure.
But faith in Mueller was born of desperation. He was an ageing Republican bureaucrat, with no track record of seriously challenging people in power. He had been an apologist for the Iraq war and mass surveillance, and a reliable servant of the DC establishment. It took a great deal of wishful thinking to envision Mueller as a caped crusader. Looking back, it’s quite obvious that people were simply seeing something that wasn’t there: “Mueller projects a pragmatism – a political strain of normcore … that has come to suggest … a veiled promise: that shady facts will find their light.” There was no such promise, veiled or otherwise. Like the idea that Barack Obama harbored a secret radical socialist deep within, this was simply imaginative fancy. Mueller was a cautious centrist through and through.
The Mueller report itself reflected this ideological temperament. While Donald Trump was wrong to say that it completely exonerated the president of wrongdoing, it did not accuse him of criminal misconduct. The report was clear that it “did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government” and “did not make any determination with regard to culpability in any way”. It’s true that Mueller’s report “didn’t exonerate” Trump. But nor did it offer the kind of bombshell revelations that could be used to shift public opinion in the direction of impeachment.
Ultimately, most people seem to have shrugged it off. Polling shows most people are against impeaching Trump, and even Nancy Pelosi seems to recognize that the issue isn’t a political winner. Mueller’s weak testimony before Congress only made the pro-impeachment case harder. Those who thought Trump could be destroyed through law enforcement needed their heroic law enforcer to agree with them. He made it plain that he doesn’t.
It was always a mistake to put the Russia investigation at the center of critiques of Trump. It’s true that having a foreign government nudge American elections is disturbing – though this country isn’t really in a position to give lectures on the importance of electoral integrity – and that presidents shouldn’t be allowed to get away with impeding federal investigations into their conduct.
But Democrats complaining about Russian interference have always seemed like “sore losers”. Instead of grappling with the very serious reasons why working-class people of all races are disillusioned with the Democratic party, prominent figures focus on litigating the various ways in which they were robbed of their rightful prize.
In many ways, the Democratic obsession with the Mueller investigation was symptomatic of a party that has lost touch with the real concerns of working people. People are upset because they’re drowning in debt, their rent is too damn high, they can’t afford their health insurance and they are working crappy jobs.
In polls, their top issues are the economy, education and healthcare. Democrats have failed for decades to confront social and economic problems – look at the homelessness crises in “deep blue” cities like New York and San Francisco. As Thomas Frank has pointed out, the “party of the people” has become a party of Wall Street, unwilling to contemplate policies that threaten the interests of the wealthy. They have done nothing to expand union membership, nothing to fight austerity. Instead, Democrats grovel to exploitative megacorporations like Amazon and wave away difficult issues like climate change that require seriously challenging corporate power. Until they honestly reckon with their own weaknesses as a party, the Democrats aren’t going to get the public behind them.
The Russia scandal was the fruit of a badly flawed political ideology. It is a kind of West Wing view of political power that believes change happens behind closed doors in Washington, rather than as the result of mass mobilization. You don’t need to go out and convince new voters to join your party, or offer them a clear policy agenda. Instead, smart, highly credentialed lawyers will save the day. And Donald Trump didn’t win because he tapped in to an authentic popular anger that needs to be addressed, but because dastardly foreign agents rigged the game.
After Mueller’s testimony, hopefully we can put this pathetic chapter in American politics behind us. The Democratic party should realize that the things that matter most in politics are the ones that affect people most directly: climate change, war, economic deprivation. Is it outrageous that governments subvert each other’s democracies, and that our president is deceitful and corrupt? You bet it is. But every moment spent talking about one issue is time not spent talking about the others, and the years wasted on the Mueller investigation should have been spent emphasizing the harm Trump is doing to ordinary people’s lives, and explaining how the Democrats intend to do better.
Nathan Robinson is the editor of Current Affairs and a Guardian US columnist
It’s embarrassing to recall just how absurdly some people elevated Mueller, and how much faith was placed in him. Memes compared Mueller to Superman, or portrayed him as a top cop who was secretly fitting Trump for an orange jumpsuit. He appeared on votive candles and earrings. SNL sang him a Christmas carol. There was an action figure.
But faith in Mueller was born of desperation. He was an ageing Republican bureaucrat, with no track record of seriously challenging people in power. He had been an apologist for the Iraq war and mass surveillance, and a reliable servant of the DC establishment. It took a great deal of wishful thinking to envision Mueller as a caped crusader. Looking back, it’s quite obvious that people were simply seeing something that wasn’t there: “Mueller projects a pragmatism – a political strain of normcore … that has come to suggest … a veiled promise: that shady facts will find their light.” There was no such promise, veiled or otherwise. Like the idea that Barack Obama harbored a secret radical socialist deep within, this was simply imaginative fancy. Mueller was a cautious centrist through and through.
The Mueller report itself reflected this ideological temperament. While Donald Trump was wrong to say that it completely exonerated the president of wrongdoing, it did not accuse him of criminal misconduct. The report was clear that it “did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government” and “did not make any determination with regard to culpability in any way”. It’s true that Mueller’s report “didn’t exonerate” Trump. But nor did it offer the kind of bombshell revelations that could be used to shift public opinion in the direction of impeachment.
Ultimately, most people seem to have shrugged it off. Polling shows most people are against impeaching Trump, and even Nancy Pelosi seems to recognize that the issue isn’t a political winner. Mueller’s weak testimony before Congress only made the pro-impeachment case harder. Those who thought Trump could be destroyed through law enforcement needed their heroic law enforcer to agree with them. He made it plain that he doesn’t.
It was always a mistake to put the Russia investigation at the center of critiques of Trump. It’s true that having a foreign government nudge American elections is disturbing – though this country isn’t really in a position to give lectures on the importance of electoral integrity – and that presidents shouldn’t be allowed to get away with impeding federal investigations into their conduct.
But Democrats complaining about Russian interference have always seemed like “sore losers”. Instead of grappling with the very serious reasons why working-class people of all races are disillusioned with the Democratic party, prominent figures focus on litigating the various ways in which they were robbed of their rightful prize.
In many ways, the Democratic obsession with the Mueller investigation was symptomatic of a party that has lost touch with the real concerns of working people. People are upset because they’re drowning in debt, their rent is too damn high, they can’t afford their health insurance and they are working crappy jobs.
In polls, their top issues are the economy, education and healthcare. Democrats have failed for decades to confront social and economic problems – look at the homelessness crises in “deep blue” cities like New York and San Francisco. As Thomas Frank has pointed out, the “party of the people” has become a party of Wall Street, unwilling to contemplate policies that threaten the interests of the wealthy. They have done nothing to expand union membership, nothing to fight austerity. Instead, Democrats grovel to exploitative megacorporations like Amazon and wave away difficult issues like climate change that require seriously challenging corporate power. Until they honestly reckon with their own weaknesses as a party, the Democrats aren’t going to get the public behind them.
The Russia scandal was the fruit of a badly flawed political ideology. It is a kind of West Wing view of political power that believes change happens behind closed doors in Washington, rather than as the result of mass mobilization. You don’t need to go out and convince new voters to join your party, or offer them a clear policy agenda. Instead, smart, highly credentialed lawyers will save the day. And Donald Trump didn’t win because he tapped in to an authentic popular anger that needs to be addressed, but because dastardly foreign agents rigged the game.
After Mueller’s testimony, hopefully we can put this pathetic chapter in American politics behind us. The Democratic party should realize that the things that matter most in politics are the ones that affect people most directly: climate change, war, economic deprivation. Is it outrageous that governments subvert each other’s democracies, and that our president is deceitful and corrupt? You bet it is. But every moment spent talking about one issue is time not spent talking about the others, and the years wasted on the Mueller investigation should have been spent emphasizing the harm Trump is doing to ordinary people’s lives, and explaining how the Democrats intend to do better.
Nathan Robinson is the editor of Current Affairs and a Guardian US columnist
mrip541
Footballguy
The Mueller investigation revealed Trump to be a criminal. His co-conspirator is in prison for the crime they committed together. This push to convince us that real Americans aren't concerned about the president being a felon who courted America's enemies to get elected is ridiculous. On top of that, the idea that Trump has somehow helped, or cares at all about, or knows anything at all about working people is laughable.
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apalmer
Footballguy
As is the belief that those who are voting for Trump care about climate change, war and economic deprivation. Trump says climate change doesn't exist, routinely threatens war, claiming any it would result in the other side being wiped from the face of the earth and raises the deficit and imposes tariffs that inevitably result in economic deprivation and his supporters cheer every step.
Coach Morris Buttermaker
Footballguy
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