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Reagan to Nixon: "those monkeys from African countries....they're still uncomfortable wearing shoes" (1 Viewer)

I too am guilty of being young, ignorant, and making jokes/comments that I now regret.  I think if the audio of Reagan captured his ignorance at age 14, or 24, I would give him a pass. 

I expect our Presidents to be more progressive on issues of race and society than the average middle class white dude at the time.  And it's not just Reagan making a one off ignorant comment that when juxtaposed against his record on civil rights stands out.  It's the fact that it's consistent with what many have suggested for decades that makes it so damning.  

 
If we're going to minimize Reagan's quote as a "joke", then how can you ever distinguish between a "racist joke" and a "racist statement"?

Because if we're going to define a racist joke as "at least one person laughs at it", then we may as well say that all racist statements are just jokes.

 
Never underestimate the pure hatred that exists on the left.  We are seriously discussing a private conversation from 1971.  He's dead Jim.

 
jon_mx said:
Never underestimate the pure hatred that exists on the left.  We are seriously discussing a private conversation from 1971.  He's dead Jim.
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Could it then be viewed as a counterpoint to the thread about Teddy And Chappaquiddick?  Passions from both sides engender long memories and long held animosities or slights.  As for the Reagan thing, the revelation is a bit fresher than the Kennedy one so not perfect analogies as I am sure someone might point out if I do not acknowledge it up front..

 
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the moops said:
Yes, many people on the left have pure hatred for racism and bigotry and for people that espouse (or joke about) those things. The horror
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🤣yeah that's it.  Racism is just the excuse.  It is the same attack used against every conservative.  That is why it is so ineffective.  

 
Ditkaless Wonders said:
Could it then be viewed as a counterpoint to the thread about Teddy And Chappaquiddick?  Passions from both sides engender long memories and long held animosities or slights.  As for the Reagan thing, the revelation is a bit fresher than the Kennedy one so not perfect analogies as I am sure somewhat might point out if I do not acknowledge it up front..
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na.....that's unpossible to those who label the discussion going on in here as "hate".

ETA:  And I don't think it's a coincidence that the pushback is coming from people who position "white" as a race.  Been reading a bit about this phenomena and it's quite the interesting travel through history.

 
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jon_mx said:
🤣yeah that's it.  Racism is just the excuse.  It is the same attack used against every conservative.  That is why it is so ineffective.  
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Perhaps the conservatives in question should stop making racist and bigoted statements.

 
bananafish said:
Actually, the conversation's been quite wide-ranging and has included much more evidence of Reagan's racism beyond that tasteless joke.  
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Because this has come up a couple of times now, I want to reiterate that Reagan's actual policies on race were completely fine, and that also wasn't the focal point of his presidency.

 
Seems like the fact in this case is that Reagan made racist statements in a private conversation with Nixon. What's the story?

 
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bananafish said:
Actually, the conversation's been quite wide-ranging and has included much more evidence of Reagan's racism beyond that tasteless joke.  As I'm sure you're aware since you were part of it.

It's curious that you're  back to painting the left as the hateful ones as if that conversation never happened. I can embarrass you again if you'd like, but it's not very challenging.

But now that you've gotten your simple-minded, fooled no-one attempt at disparagement out of the way, it's time you started whining about everyone picking on you before running off crying about cesspools.

That might fly with your Trump buddies, my little teacup, but out in the real world where words have to mean something you just don't cut the mustard. It's okay. We can't all be good at something.
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Why do you post crap like this?  If you talked to people like this you would be inviting a punch to the face.  People don't say this kind of crap to people.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
Because this has come up a couple of times now, I want to reiterate that Reagan's actual policies on race were completely fine, and that also wasn't the focal point of his presidency.
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Is this true?

https://timeline.com/ronald-nancy-reagan-war-on-drugs-crack-baby-just-say-no-cia-communism-racial-injustice-fcfeadb3548d

https://chicagounbound.uchicago.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1155&context=uclf

Third, as if the ineffectiveness and immense, avoidable cost were not indictment enough, they pale before the most funda- mental objection. The War on Drugs foreseeably and unnecessarily blighted the lives of hundreds of thousands of young, disadvantaged Americans, especially black Americans, and undermined decades of effort to improve the life chances of members of the urban black underclass. The War was fought largely from partisan political efforts to show that the Bush and Reagan administrations were concerned about public safety, crime prevention, and the needs of victims (as if Democrats, or any responsible mainstream political figure, were not). The bod- ies counted in this war, as they lay in their prison beds, however, are even more disproportionately black than prisoners already were. War or no war, most people are surprised and saddened to learn that for many years, 30 to 40 percent of those admitted to prison were black.15 The law enforcement emphasis of the War on Drugs was foreordained to increase those percentages, and it succeeded.

 
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Ranethe said:
Is this true?
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No, lots of incorrect spin....for one it wasn't just Republican pushing it.  Many of today Democratic candidates for president had a huge hand in the war on drugs.   Take for instance Joe Biden:

“Quite frankly, the president’s plan is not tough enough, bold enough, or imaginative enough to meet the crisis at hand,” Biden said. Biden called not just for harsher punishments for drug dealers but to “hold every drug user accountable.” Bush’s plan, Biden added, “doesn’t include enough police officers to catch the violent thugs, not enough prosecutors to convict them, not enough judges to sentence them, and not enough prison cells to put them away for a long time” — a direct call for more incarceration.

 
jon_mx said:
No, lots of incorrect spin....for one it wasn't just Republican pushing it.  Many of today Democratic candidates for president had a huge hand in the war on drugs.   Take for instance Joe Biden:

“Quite frankly, the president’s plan is not tough enough, bold enough, or imaginative enough to meet the crisis at hand,” Biden said. Biden called not just for harsher punishments for drug dealers but to “hold every drug user accountable.” Bush’s plan, Biden added, “doesn’t include enough police officers to catch the violent thugs, not enough prosecutors to convict them, not enough judges to sentence them, and not enough prison cells to put them away for a long time” — a direct call for more incarceration.
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Good reminder of why I don’t want to vote for good ol’ 1980s race baiter Joe Biden

 
Alex P Keaton said:
Good reminder of why I don’t want to vote for good ol’ 1980s race baiter Joe Biden
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It was not about race-baiting.  You have to realize between 1960 and 1980 violent crime rates in this country skyrocketed by a shocking 270 percent eventually peaking in 1991.  Most of these crimes either surrounded the drug trade or were crimes induced by drug usage.  The vast majority of these were in the inner-cities.  You just can't assume the disproportional stats are all about race.  Even as the police force became much more diverse, you still see the same disproportional numbers.  Eventhough many convictions are for non-violent drug offenses, most of the arrests were the result of some violent activity which brough attention to the situtation. It is a much more complex situation than the simple-minded thinking of the article you posted which is why I see it as a bunch of BS spin.  There was a reason why there was large bi-partisan support for the war on drugs.  

 
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Ranethe said:
Is this true?

https://timeline.com/ronald-nancy-reagan-war-on-drugs-crack-baby-just-say-no-cia-communism-racial-injustice-fcfeadb3548d

https://chicagounbound.uchicago.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1155&context=uclf

Third, as if the ineffectiveness and immense, avoidable cost were not indictment enough, they pale before the most funda- mental objection. The War on Drugs foreseeably and unnecessarily blighted the lives of hundreds of thousands of young, disadvantaged Americans, especially black Americans, and undermined decades of effort to improve the life chances of members of the urban black underclass. The War was fought largely from partisan political efforts to show that the Bush and Reagan administrations were concerned about public safety, crime prevention, and the needs of victims (as if Democrats, or any responsible mainstream political figure, were not). The bod- ies counted in this war, as they lay in their prison beds, however, are even more disproportionately black than prisoners already were. War or no war, most people are surprised and saddened to learn that for many years, 30 to 40 percent of those admitted to prison were black.15 The law enforcement emphasis of the War on Drugs was foreordained to increase those percentages, and it succeeded.
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I definitely disagree with Reagan's drug policy.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
No, I like Reagan's economic policies.  Supply side economics is meritless in a country like the US, but Reagan's tax cuts gave a recessed economy the old-fashioned Keynesian boost that it needed.  
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Spending more than anyone else since didn't hurt either, though much of the spending had low multiplier effects once the unemployment numbers came out of double digits.

 
jon_mx said:
It was not about race-baiting.  You have to realize between 1960 and 1980 violent crime rates in this country skyrocketed by a shocking 270 percent eventually peaking in 1991.  Most of these crimes either surrounded the drug trade or were crimes induced by drug usage.  The vast majority of these were in the inner-cities.  You just can't assume the disproportional stats are all about race.  Even as the police force became much more diverse, you still see the same disproportional numbers.  Eventhough many convictions are for non-violent drug offenses, most of the arrests were the result of some violent activity which brough attention to the situtation. It is a much more complex situation than the simple-minded thinking of the article you posted which is why I see it as a bunch of BS spin.  There was a reason why there was large bi-partisan support for the war on drugs.  
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I don’t remember posting an article.   What are you talking about?

 
IvanKaramazov said:
Somebody mentioned this in another thread recently, but I remember a series of books called Truly Tasteless Jokes from when I was a kid.  They were filled with all sorts of overtly racist, sexist, homophobic, etc. material that wouldn't come close to flying today.  If I recall correctly, they even helpfully sorted the jokes into different chapters -- i.e. blacks, Puerto Ricans, gays, etc. -- so that you could improve your repertoire one protected group at a time.

Obviously a lot has changed for the better since then.
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It's not just the jokes we told back then.  I am a big cartoon guys still.  I was watching some Merry Melodies yesterday and I was thinking to myself this sure wouldn't fly today.  Times were different then some things that were done,said or things in the entertainment industry that were produced were done innocently even though they make us cringe today.

 
rustycolts said:
It's not just the jokes we told back then.  I am a big cartoon guys still.  I was watching some Merry Melodies yesterday and I was thinking to myself this sure wouldn't fly today.  Times were different then some things that were done,said or things in the entertainment industry that were produced were done innocently even though they make us cringe today.
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And you weren't even watching the banned ones.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censored_Eleven

 
msommer said:
But it didn't actually trickle down at all
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Sure it did, in jobs and lower interest rates. The economy was broken and part of the problem was the punitive tax rates.  Tax rates should never be over 50 percent.  The biggest crime we have today is tax penalty we place on social security recipients. 

 
Id guess a lot of us are in our 40s...and either heard or made bad jokes or played games that had some quite questionable names.

Smear the _____?

______  pile?

 
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