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The Irishman - New Scorcese movie about Jimmy Hoffa (1 Viewer)

KarmaPolice said:
####, I wish I could unread this.   
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it's not as bad as you might imagine.  it's not heavily used and where it is used, it doesn't really detract that much because it's not glaringly obvious to the eye... even if it is to the brain, if that makes sense.

you know that DeNiro isn't 40 in real life so seeing him 40 on screen is a bit confusing but it doesn't look like a ####ty watercolor painting of his face on screen.

 
Dr. Octopus said:
I thought it was good but a little too long and slow to ever consider watching it again.

Pesci gave the best performance imo. Pacino hammed it up as usual in his later roles.

I actually did not think the CGI was distracting at all - it was well done.
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Pacino has really fallen off a cliff late in life but if anything he wasn't hammy enough for Hoffa

Hoffa was a showman par excellence

 
Ilov80s said:
Also, the movie really is called I Heard You Paint Houses. The one condition Netflix had was to not use that title. But the start of the film begins with I Heard You Paint Houses where the title should be so it is pretty clear what Marty thinks the movie is. 
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everyone probably already knows by now but it's based on this book

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Heard_You_Paint_Houses

which i read years ago.. so was pretty excited for this flick.

 
Just really average at best.  There are zero great moments like in the Godfathers, Goodfellas and the Departed.  

I love Everyone loves Raymond.  But he was a bad casting decision for this.  

 
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timschochet said:
Much slower than Goodfellas or Casino- maybe what’s missing is the great rock soundtrack both of those movies had. Also, both of those movies featured Joe Pesci as a bat#### crazy guy and that was part of the attraction- here he’s very calm like everybody else. 

Still very watchable. But I wouldn’t put it in the same ballpark as those films. 
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I wasn't a fan of the casting.  This may have worked better 20yrs ago, but Deniro was too old to be believable as a hitman.  He really showed his age when throwing the guns in the water.

Pesci wasn't bad, I kind of liked him as an old Italian guy.  I thought he was a better choice than Paccino for Jimmy Hoffa.

They basically overdid it on star power imo.  One of these guys would have been ok, but it's like we were watching a 80's/90's gangster movie reunion.

 
Punxsutawney Phil said:
This may have worked better 20yrs ago, but Deniro was too old to be believable as a hitman.  He really showed his age when throwing the guns in the water
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Anything physical he tried was really bad. He also looked like he had never shot a gun before (as an actor) in multiple scenes. It was like he was in an old western that was purposefully hokey. Really strange. 

 
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RUSF18 said:
Anything physical he tried was really bad. He also looked like he had never shot a gun before (as an actor) in multiple scenes. It was like he was in an old western that was purposefully hokey. Really strange. 
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of all the things to find out of place/hard to believe... how he shot a gun is the one that jumps out?

people hold guns differently  :shrug:  it's acting

 
Thought it was pretty good. But it felt almost like a reunion special for a television show that went off the air 20 years ago.  The kind where a character/actor like Gilligan/Bob Denver would show up dressed exactly as Gilligan.  Felt like a swan song; as if all of those were retiring and this was their last role; a harken back to their most vibrant and best characters.

Scorcese is a god but I think he misses the boat in the casting in one way.  He could have been a kingmaker in this and anointed his next set of "great" actors if he's going to continue making films.  A guy like Jon Berenthal would have been awesome as Frank Sheeran under Scorceses direction.  As it is....it feels like Scorcese was playing it safe in using guys he has used for decades.  

 
Thunderlips said:
Thought it was pretty good. But it felt almost like a reunion special for a television show that went off the air 20 years ago.  The kind where a character/actor like Gilligan/Bob Denver would show up dressed exactly as Gilligan.  Felt like a swan song; as if all of those were retiring and this was their last role; a harken back to their most vibrant and best characters.

Scorcese is a god but I think he misses the boat in the casting in one way.  He could have been a kingmaker in this and anointed his next set of "great" actors if he's going to continue making films.  A guy like Jon Berenthal would have been awesome as Frank Sheeran under Scorceses direction.  As it is....it feels like Scorcese was playing it safe in using guys he has used for decades.  
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Berenthal could have been amazing but I do think there’s a certain built in storytelling that is lost going from Deniro to JB. I’m not sure if the weight is there because with Deniro we don’t just get this movie/performance but all his past roles, the history, the age, etc.

 
i'm so stuck on how awful Berenthal was in the Walking Dead that i can't imagine him being good in anything

what other movies is he in that might change my opinion?

 
mr. furley said:
i'm so stuck on how awful Berenthal was in the Walking Dead that i can't imagine him being good in anything

what other movies is he in that might change my opinion?
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He was pretty good in Ford v Ferrari but it’s a very small role relative to what Deniro has to do here.

 
pantherclub said:
so do you guys believe his story?
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He was like the Forrest Gump of the 1960s Underworld...…. hanging with the Don of Philly, meeting David Ferrie…..running guns for the Bay of Pigs....hanging with and killing Hoffa..... I don't know.

That being said, I was talking to my father last night about the movie and he mentioned that Sheeran was actually the head of the Teamsters Local In Wilmington, DE (something I didn't even they mentioned in the movie) and that he used to hang around with guys in that union......and those guys pretty much acknowledged Sheeran was pretty mobbed up and that there wasn't anything they wouldn't have done for the guy.  So I guess the potential was there.  

 
Ilov80s said:
The movie sure made it seem convincing- but obviously that’s what it aimed to do. I don’t know enough details of the overall minutiae to say.
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the book's wiki page:

"Shortly before his death, Sheeran claimed to have killed Teamster leader Jimmy Hoffa in 1975. Author Charles Brandt detailed what Sheeran told him about Hoffa in the narrative nonfiction work I Heard You Paint Houses (2004).[3] Post-publication Sheeran's confessions received significant independent corroboration largely detailed in 71 pages of backmatter that have been added to the book. Dr. Michael Baden, former chief medical examiner of New York City, has written: “Sheeran’s confession that he killed Hoffa in the manner described in the book is supported by the forensic evidence, is entirely credible, and solves the Hoffa mystery.” The truthfulness of that book, and the claims that Sheeran killed Hoffa or Joey Gallo, have since been disputed by several publications.[4][5][6]"

https://slate.com/culture/2019/08/the-irishman-book-publisher-reply-bill-tonelli.html

The Publisher of I Heard You Paint Houses Responds to “The Lies of the Irishman”

• In 1966 Jimmy Hoffa made Sheeran head of the Teamsters local in Wilmington, Delaware.

• In 1980, then-US Attorney Rudy Giuliani named Sheeran as one of only two non-Italians in conspiracy with The Commission of La Cosa Nostra in a civil RICO action against the Commission. Sheeran is listed side-by-side with the likes of Anthony “Tony Pro” Provenzano and Anthony “Fat Tony” Salerno.

• On March 6, 1995 Jimmy Hoffa’s daughter Barbara Crancer wrote to Sheeran that she believed he was one of the “loyal friends who know what happened to James R. Hoffa, who did it and why.”

• On September 7, 2001 when Hoffa’s son, James P. Hoffa, was asked at a press conference if his father could have been lured into the car that drove him to his death by several well-known suspects, he shook his head in response to each man on the list and at the end said, “No, my father didn’t know these people.” When asked if Frank Sheeran could have lured his father into the car, James said, “Yes, my father would have gotten into a car with him.”

• On October 25, 2001 Judge Barbara Crancer called Sheeran from her chambers in St. Louis to make a personal appeal to Frank for him to “do the right thing” and confess what he knew about her father’s death. A week later, two FBI agents showed up at Sheeran’s home to follow up on the judge’s phone call.

• Bufalino is widely regarded to be the man who called the November, 1957 mafia gathering in Apalachin, N.Y. to settle disputes following the slaying of Albert Anastasia in New York City’s Park Sheraton Hotel. In his book The Hoffa Wars, author Dan Moldea wrote, “as co-host of the 1957 Apalachin Conference Bufalino had enormous status in the mob.” When local police raided the gathering and discovered mafia bosses from all over the country, the fact that there was a national Mafia syndicate became undeniable.

• The FBI knew that Bufalino traveled frequently to Cuba, where he owned a casino and racetrack and that he was a silent partner in Medico Industries, the largest supplier of ammunition to the U.S. government.

• In 1975, Time magazine reported that Russell Bufalino and Sam “Momo” Giancana had worked on behalf of the CIA in 1961 in the Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba and in 1962 in a plot to kill Castro.

• As detailed in I Heard You Paint Houses, after director Francis Ford Copolla rejected singer Al Martino for the part of Johnny Fontaine in the movie The Godfather, Martino called Bufalino who reached out to Paramount head Robert Evans. Martino got the part. When Brandt recounted this anecdote at a writer’s conference, Wanda Ruddy, the wife of The Godfather producer Al Ruddy, who was in the audience introduced herself to Brandt and told him, “Russell Bufalino had final script approval of The Godfather.” (p. 343).

 
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Thunderlips said:
He was like the Forrest Gump of the 1960s Underworld...…. hanging with the Don of Philly, meeting David Ferrie…..running guns for the Bay of Pigs....hanging with and killing Hoffa..... I don't know.

That being said, I was talking to my father last night about the movie and he mentioned that Sheeran was actually the head of the Teamsters Local In Wilmington, DE (something I didn't even they mentioned in the movie) and that he used to hang around with guys in that union......and those guys pretty much acknowledged Sheeran was pretty mobbed up and that there wasn't anything they wouldn't have done for the guy.  So I guess the potential was there.  
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https://slate.com/culture/2019/08/the-irishman-book-publisher-reply-bill-tonelli.html

"The FBI subpoenaed Charles Brandt’s interview tapes of Sheeran after the last boss of the Bufalino crime family, William “Big Billy” D’Elia, became a cooperating witness and corroborated Brandt’s book, a fact Brandt shared with Tonelli. Tonelli tries to downplay reference to Sheeran in “something called” the Hoffex memo, the FBI’s official summary of findings six months into of its investigation of Hoffa’s disappearance.

“FRANCIS JOSEPH ‘FRANK’ SHEERAN, age 43 (ed. note, not his correct age), President Local 326, Wilmington, Delaware. Resides in Philadelphia and is known associate of RUSSELL BUFALINO, La Cosa Nostra Chief, Eastern Pennsylvania. His vehicle seen at meeting of La Cosa Nostra figures in Wilkes Barre, Pennsylvania, August 29, 1975, and also in Detroit December 4, 1975, during FGJ (federal grand jury) appearance of New Jersey teamsters. Known to be in Detroit area at the time of the JRH disappearance, and considered to be a close friend of JRH.”

 
prosopis said:
I enjoyed it but I was bothered by the CGI faces. It felt like I was watching a cut scene in a video game at times. I would have liked the movie better with age appropriate actors.
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But the characters were shown at various stages of their lives so what age would have been appropriate?

 
RUSF18 said:
For Robert DeNiro in a mob movie where he’s playing a hitman, yes it jumps out that he was shooting a gun like a 4 year old with a pop gun yelling “bang bang you’re dead”.
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now i want the internet to re-do that scene with that dialogue  :lmao:

 
Punxsutawney Phil said:
I wasn't a fan of the casting.  This may have worked better 20yrs ago, but Deniro was too old to be believable as a hitman.  He really showed his age when throwing the guns in the water.

Pesci wasn't bad, I kind of liked him as an old Italian guy.  I thought he was a better choice than Paccino for Jimmy Hoffa.

They basically overdid it on star power imo.  One of these guys would have been ok, but it's like we were watching a 80's/90's gangster movie reunion.
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But Sheeran was still a hitman at that age, things were different back then :shrug:  plenty of older costra Nostra hitmen

 
Paquin was wasted - 6 words in the whole movie.  Her part should have been left on the cutting room floor.

CGI was OK - only stood out in a few scenes.  I assumed it was makeup tricks for the most part.

I didn't realize Sheeran was an actual person until I Googled it halfway through.  There was a lot of time for Googling.

Liked it, all in all, but yeah, can't imagine sitting through the whole thing again.

 
Liked it a lot.

Pesci was great, but his role wasn’t hard

DeNiro was very good.  CGI didn’t bother me at all.

Pacino I struggle with.  I wasn’t crazy about his acting but if he nailed Hoffa good for him.

shouldve been 30 mins shorter, but I enjoyed it thoroughly.

it was missing a good soundtrack like Goodfellas and Casino.

 
I’ll also say this.  I’m glad Scorsese told this story, whether 100% true or not.  I grew up in Allentown so I knew stories of the Philly mob but not a lot.  The NY mob is generally the media darling, but Philly needed a story too. Never knew what came before Nicky Scarfo, etc.

 
joffer said:
I’ll also say this.  I’m glad Scorsese told this story, whether 100% true or not.  I grew up in Allentown so I knew stories of the Philly mob but not a lot.  The NY mob is generally the media darling, but Philly needed a story too. Never knew what came before Nicky Scarfo, etc.
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My uncles talked about it at Thanksgiving. They all remember the stories when they were young. 

 
Just watched it, feeled like a reunion flick....So Hoffa just burned away in an oven somewhere?  Worth a watch, but not like Goodfella's where if that movie is on TV Im watching it not matter what

 
I cant imagine any American my age or older being able to connect w this flick for the simple reason that Al Pacino captured nothing of Jimmy Hoffa except occasional forays into a similar accent. The script got one thing right, at least - Hoffa was as big as Elvis. His entire era was about regular guys finally making it to the good life and Hoffa was the symbol a dat, whether you was union or not, so there are still a lotta folks need you to get that right. The energy, the hubris and, especially, the hard-bitten, bull-in-a-china-shop Ditkaness just wasnt there in Pacino's performance. And all the CGI in the world dont matter if a DeNiro greased back into his 40s still kicks da #### out of a guy like he's in his 70s. Except for the usual elegant, deadpan understanding of stoopit wise guys that make every Scorsese mob picture a pleasure to take in, there really wasn't much to recommend.

 
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WampusCat43 said:
Paquin was wasted - 6 words in the whole movie.  Her part should have been left on the cutting room floor.
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Not really - her character's role was very impactful.  Her watchful eyes as a youth outside that shop, how she loved her dad but feared his friend in the bowling alley, seeing her father bring a gun before 'heading to work', and her most impactful scene when her dad says he hasn't called Jo Hoffa yet...all of this illustrated the emotional trauma being unleashed by Sheeran his entire life.  The impact it had on those around him, and certainly by those families he forever changed with his hits and other violence.

Think of it this way, the female characters literally were in the background having conversations (usually while smoking), but we saw numerous scenes of men going to sleep together (in separate beds) telling each other how important they were in each other's lives in some way.  Hoffa even nodded off immediately after Sheeren told him he'd run for the local.

The men were the bedrock relationship in each other's lives, but the impacts of their decisions hit everyone.  Directly seeing that with Paquin was essential, especially in the living room scene where what really happened to Hoffa (and all the build up from earlier scenes in the film) plays out in front of us -including who was involved.

 
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Finished it tonight, and really enjoyed it.  Thought it was well done, despite some of the fair criticisms in this thread. 

 
Paquin was great as usual and I thought that was handled perfectly. There had to be more than a few of those kids who were disgusted by their fathers.

 
Really torn. Liked it but also felt the "reunion" vibe many others have mentioned. DeNiro's eyes on many occasions looked fake. Really bothered me.

Wonder how the movie would have been with more age appropriate actors. 

 
I really enjoyed it. Watched it twice and appreciated it more the 2nd time. Pacino and Pesci were exceptional.

I thought the scene where Pacino and Deniro are talking at the banquet was very well acted. Example: Right before Pacino says "They wouldn't dare!", he has an "Oh S**t!" expression on his face for a brief moment as he is told to back down or else. He quickly regains his bravado and says "They wouldn't dare!". His ego would not let him give an inch.

8/10 for me

 
Discussed the film with a few others.  Everyone seemed to have a few scenes they loved, but nobody I talked with mentioned the car scene with the fish smell (when Sheeran is in the back to pick up Hoffa).  For some reason that scene, and dialogue, sticks with me more than any other.  That scene was very Tarantino-ish IMO.

 
Anyone notice that Hoffa's wife was the girl in Goodfellas who needs her lucky hat to travel with the coke? Also instantly placed the guy who eats the boozy watermelon as the FBI guy who has the gun pointed at Liottas head, "don't you move you mf'er or I'll blow your brains out..." Some other more obvious ones too like Beansie from Sopranos. Any others who are more obscure?

 
Caught those. Gene Pontecorvo or whatever his name was in the Sopranos was in a fairly early scene among a group of guys. 

 
RUSF18 said:
Caught those. Gene Pontecorvo or whatever his name was in the Sopranos was in a fairly early scene among a group of guys. 
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Also Domenick Lombardozzi from the wire. I don't know if it was make up or cgi but I could only tell from his voice.
 

 
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