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2020 MLB Spring Training (11 Viewers)

Another huge factor for the Astros was that Altuve started to slump when they got to the WS.  I mean, they had the perfect storm of slumping this October.  Pitching started to fall apart.  Players couldn't get hits.  Big guys couldn't hit home runs.  

I'm still amazed that they made it to the WS.  To give you an idea how great that team was, they still made it to the WS with nothing firing on all cylinders.  That's crazy.  It also goes to show how great that Nats team was clicking.  This is a team that couldn't catch the Braves, yet was able to blow through everyone else like they were playing AAA teams.  

Make you wonder what would've happened if the Braves would've beat the Cards?  I love looking back on What If's after it's over.  Like, what if the Brewers don't make that error in CF?  It's crazy to think back and see how one or two plays changed the course of the entire postseason.  

 
TheIronSheik said:
Another huge factor for the Astros was that Altuve started to slump when they got to the WS.  I mean, they had the perfect storm of slumping this October.  Pitching started to fall apart.  Players couldn't get hits.  Big guys couldn't hit home runs.  

I'm still amazed that they made it to the WS.  To give you an idea how great that team was, they still made it to the WS with nothing firing on all cylinders.  That's crazy.  It also goes to show how great that Nats team was clicking.  This is a team that couldn't catch the Braves, yet was able to blow through everyone else like they were playing AAA teams.  

Make you wonder what would've happened if the Braves would've beat the Cards?  I love looking back on What If's after it's over.  Like, what if the Brewers don't make that error in CF?  It's crazy to think back and see how one or two plays changed the course of the entire postseason.  
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They've been playing this way since late May.  Saw they had the same record as the Astros since late May.  They couldn't catch the Braves because the Braves kept winning too.  It wasn't because they were losing a lot.

They also did it with Scherzer out a month, Doolittle out for a weeks, Zimmerman out over half the season, and Turner missed about 30% of the season.  

 
I’m more disappointed in Verlander than Cole. I think he ran out of gas at the end. He’s up in age, maybe declines more. Lose Cole. Lose Miley (not a huge deal) but hopefully get a healthy McCullers back. 

If Cole goes to the Angels it’s no big deal losing him but I’m concerned about pitching next year. If your pitching goes then you don’t have much of a shot, I don’t care who your other 8 are. 

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
TheIronSheik said:
Another huge factor for the Astros was that Altuve started to slump when they got to the WS.  I mean, they had the perfect storm of slumping this October.  Pitching started to fall apart.  Players couldn't get hits.  Big guys couldn't hit home runs.  

I'm still amazed that they made it to the WS.  To give you an idea how great that team was, they still made it to the WS with nothing firing on all cylinders.  That's crazy.  It also goes to show how great that Nats team was clicking.  This is a team that couldn't catch the Braves, yet was able to blow through everyone else like they were playing AAA teams.  

Make you wonder what would've happened if the Braves would've beat the Cards?  I love looking back on What If's after it's over.  Like, what if the Brewers don't make that error in CF?  It's crazy to think back and see how one or two plays changed the course of the entire postseason.  
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They've been playing this way since late May.  Saw they had the same record as the Astros since late May.  They couldn't catch the Braves because the Braves kept winning too.  It wasn't because they were losing a lot.

They also did it with Scherzer out a month, Doolittle out for a weeks, Zimmerman out over half the season, and Turner missed about 30% of the season.  
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Yeah, in my revelry last night, I was looking back at the Nats thread for posts earlier this season and noticed that I posted on May 4th how the Nats' lineup looked like something out of a spring training split squad game.  Looked it up, and it was this (with Turner, Rendon, Zim, and Soto all on the IL, I think):

Adam Eaton (L) RF
Brian Dozier (R) 2B
Howie Kendrick (R) 3B
Matt Adams (L) 1B
Yan Gomes (R) C
Carter Kieboom (R) SS
Andrew Stevenson (L) LF
Michael A. Taylor (R) CF
Patrick Corbin (L) P

 
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Bryan Price hired by the Phils as the pitching coach.

I also saw some articles saying that the Phils are going to at least make a run at Cole.  I think that's a bad move.  I think they should go after Rendon.  Also, what if Strasburg opts out now that he won?  The Phillies could just become the Washington Nationals of Philadelphia.

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
They've been playing this way since late May.  Saw they had the same record as the Astros since late May.  They couldn't catch the Braves because the Braves kept winning too.  It wasn't because they were losing a lot.

They also did it with Scherzer out a month, Doolittle out for a weeks, Zimmerman out over half the season, and Turner missed about 30% of the season.  
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The Nats couldn't catch them because they couldn't beat them.  They went 3-7 in their last 10 games against them.  And 7 of those games were in September.

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
They've been playing this way since late May.  Saw they had the same record as the Astros since late May.  They couldn't catch the Braves because the Braves kept winning too.  It wasn't because they were losing a lot.

They also did it with Scherzer out a month, Doolittle out for a weeks, Zimmerman out over half the season, and Turner missed about 30% of the season.  
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Also, it's important to note that I'm giving the Nats a huge compliment here.  I said they were playing great.  Not sure where the argument is.  :shrug:

 
Zow said:
Wow. That's, um, odd. Clearly he's not interested in going back to Houston and, clearly, he's a bit tone-deaf. 
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So I saw the pictures and I saw the quotes.  It's true.

I just don't get that move.  You couldn't wait one night?  It just seems so odd.  I hope there's more to the story, because I've come to really like the guy.  But this is a bad look for him.

 
TheIronSheik said:
So I saw the pictures and I saw the quotes.  It's true.

I just don't get that move.  You couldn't wait one night?  It just seems so odd.  I hope there's more to the story, because I've come to really like the guy.  But this is a bad look for him.
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maybe he is pissed that he didn't get a chance to pitch after Greinke got yanked?

 
Jaysus said:
maybe he is pissed that he didn't get a chance to pitch after Greinke got yanked?
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From everything I've heard, the thought is that starters take longer to warm up than relievers.  So the thought was that once they pulled Greinke, they would bring in Harris, who had been lights out, and then Cole would come in after him.  It makes sense.  Just didn't account for Harris to give up the lead on just a couple of pitches.

 
TheIronSheik said:
From everything I've heard, the thought is that starters take longer to warm up than relievers.  So the thought was that once they pulled Greinke, they would bring in Harris, who had been lights out, and then Cole would come in after him.  It makes sense.  Just didn't account for Harris to give up the lead on just a couple of pitches.
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That does not preclude him from being pissed about it.  I also think I heard something before the game about the coach planning on not using him.  So he may have been pre-pissed, which may explain why the Boras hat was handy - seriously who keeps one of them handy?

 
Jaysus said:
That does not preclude him from being pissed about it.  I also think I heard something before the game about the coach planning on not using him.  So he may have been pre-pissed, which may explain why the Boras hat was handy - seriously who keeps one of them handy?
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Frankly, if he's worried about his personal and financial future, he probably is better off not being brought into a game mid-inning on short rest. 

 
Zow said:
Frankly, if he's worried about his personal and financial future, he probably is better off not being brought into a game mid-inning on short rest. 
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And had he failed to hold it Hinch still gets second guessed to death for it. 

 
TheIronSheik said:
Another huge factor for the Astros was that Altuve started to slump when they got to the WS.  I mean, they had the perfect storm of slumping this October.  Pitching started to fall apart.  Players couldn't get hits.  Big guys couldn't hit home runs.  

I'm still amazed that they made it to the WS.  To give you an idea how great that team was, they still made it to the WS with nothing firing on all cylinders.  That's crazy.  It also goes to show how great that Nats team was clicking.  This is a team that couldn't catch the Braves, yet was able to blow through everyone else like they were playing AAA teams.  

Make you wonder what would've happened if the Braves would've beat the Cards?  I love looking back on What If's after it's over.  Like, what if the Brewers don't make that error in CF?  It's crazy to think back and see how one or two plays changed the course of the entire postseason.  
Click to expand...
I don't think its quite accurate to say the Nats' were "able to blow through everyone else like they were playing AAA teams."  That was true for the series against the Cards, but they had a tough series against the juggernaut Dodgers in which they got hammered for 2 losses and needed extra innings to win game 5.  In the wild card game, they were down 3-1 with two outs in the 8th inning facing the 2 time reliever of the year winner and managed to win 4-3.  Its really quite improbable this team even made it to the world series, and even moreso that they won it.

 
Jaysus said:
That does not preclude him from being pissed about it.  I also think I heard something before the game about the coach planning on not using him.  So he may have been pre-pissed, which may explain why the Boras hat was handy - seriously who keeps one of them handy?
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Yeah.  I can't answer that.  I just know about the starters taking longer to warm up.  

AJ Hinch is an awesome manager.  And it's really hard to second guess his decisions.  That doesn't mean he's perfect, but he's a great manager.  All that said, I'm not sure what the plan was or why Cole wasn't out there.  Sometimes things just go bad.  It sucks.  Especially for an Astros fan in this situation.  But AJ's been so good.  

The fact that Cole had a Boras hat ready is really weird, though.  I really hope this is just us not knowing all of the facts because I really liked Cole.  

 
CletiusMaximus said:
I don't think its quite accurate to say the Nats' were "able to blow through everyone else like they were playing AAA teams."  That was true for the series against the Cards, but they had a tough series against the juggernaut Dodgers in which they got hammered for 2 losses and needed extra innings to win game 5.  In the wild card game, they were down 3-1 with two outs in the 8th inning facing the 2 time reliever of the year winner and managed to win 4-3.  Its really quite improbable this team even made it to the world series, and even moreso that they won it.
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I find it odd that people are taking issue with me calling the Nats a great team.   :confused:

I'm not saying they played AAA level teams.  I'm saying they were playing so well, that they looked like an All Star team out there.  As someone else pointed out, they had the best record in baseball from about the halfway point of the season.  

 
TheIronSheik said:
I find it odd that people are taking issue with me calling the Nats a great team.   :confused:

I'm not saying they played AAA level teams.  I'm saying they were playing so well, that they looked like an All Star team out there.  As someone else pointed out, they had the best record in baseball from about the halfway point of the season.  
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I'm definitely not taking issue with the notion that the Nationals were a great and deserving champion.  I took your comment that the Nats "were able to blow through everyone else like they were playing AAA teams" to mean that they breezed through the playoffs.  That's not true.  They breezed past the cardinals (which I loved), but the wild card game and the series against the Dodgers were both hard-fought, narrow wins.

 
CletiusMaximus said:
I'm definitely not taking issue with the notion that the Nationals were a great and deserving champion.  I took your comment that the Nats "were able to blow through everyone else like they were playing AAA teams" to mean that they breezed through the playoffs.  That's not true.  They breezed past the cardinals (which I loved), but the wild card game and the series against the Dodgers were both hard-fought, narrow wins.
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Yeah, I didn't mean it like that.  I meant that they were a powerhouse to be reckoned with.  

 
tri-man 47 said:
I wonder if his last-game effort to (successfully) get to 300 Ks was a factor.
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Yeah probably was a factor. 

It does no good to put up stats and wins in the regular season and then not continue the same way when you get to the postseason. Maybe they limit him during the year next year, idk. 

Of course even when he was a young stud he still never won a WS game. It’s possible that he just gets nervous on that stage also. 

 
Man...listened to Francesa’s first hour where he was on the WS. He makes a heckuva case that the 2-1 pitch Greinke threw to Soto with one out in the 7th which was called a ball but was definitely in the zone turned the whole game and series around. He had a really good argument and can’t say I disagree. 

Hence, the reason I said I’m all for the robo strike zone the other day, even when it was a bad call that helped my guys that day. 

It’s super frustrating when a pitcher throws a perfect pitch in the zone that doesn’t get the call more than the other way around for me. 

 
NREC34 said:
Man...listened to Francesa’s first hour where he was on the WS. He makes a heckuva case that the 2-1 pitch Greinke threw to Soto with one out in the 7th which was called a ball but was definitely in the zone turned the whole game and series around. He had a really good argument and can’t say I disagree. 

Hence, the reason I said I’m all for the robo strike zone the other day, even when it was a bad call that helped my guys that day. 

It’s super frustrating when a pitcher throws a perfect pitch in the zone that doesn’t get the call more than the other way around for me. 
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I thought the home plate umpire did a pretty dang good job last night calling pitches.

The only two I could question was the one to Soto and the one to Correa. So one for each side.

I know that box isn't 100% accurate, so take that for whats it worth. But I pretty much agreed with his strike/ball calls all night, and I'm just a schmo with no dog in the fight.

(sidebar: if they would just get rid of that stupid box for balls and strikes it would eliminate a large part of this complaining about every dang borderline pitch.)

(sidebar 2: get off my lawn. don't want robo umps either.)

 
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ChiefD said:
I thought the home plate umpire did a pretty dang good job last night calling pitches.

The only two I could question was the one to Soto and the one to Correa. So one for each side.

I know that box isn't 100% accurate, so take that for whats it worth. But I pretty much agreed with his strike/ball calls all night, and I'm just a schmo with no dog in the fight.

(sidebar: if they would just get rid of that stupid box for balls and strikes it would eliminate a large part of this complaining about every dang borderline pitch.)

(sidebar 2: get off my lawn. don't want robo umps either.)
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What’s your argument for no robo ump?

All the arguments I hear from others seem pretty lame. 

Sorry that a few guys that have a job because they can frame might be out of a job, that’s just collateral damage. 

Fact remains that just one bad call on a ball/strike at a crucial spot in a game can totally change everything. 

Anyway....it was a really fun month of playoff baseball. I’m sad and depressed to see it end. Got to try and care about football I guess. 

 
NREC34 said:
What’s your argument for no robo ump?

All the arguments I hear from others seem pretty lame. 

Sorry that a few guys that have a job because they can frame might be out of a job, that’s just collateral damage. 

Fact remains that just one bad call on a ball/strike at a crucial spot in a game can totally change everything. 

Anyway....it was a really fun month of playoff baseball. I’m sad and depressed to see it end. Got to try and care about football I guess. 
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Because I am tired of live sports turning into video games. 

I’m tired of people having to have “proof” that their perspective on what happened on a play is right. Damn the other side.

I’m tired of sports losing the purpose of sports.

I’m tired of people trying to remove spontaneity out of life. Let life breathe for crissakes. Let sports flow. Let people have fun. Leave something to the imagination.

The world we are becoming is one where everyone needs an answer, and it doesn’t matter if the answer is right or wrong, as long as it fits what you want to see. I am sad that we are so eager to replace the spirit of life just to prove our own perceptions.

Humans are losing their humanity. And people are screaming from the rooftops to let it happen. 

 
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NREC34 said:
Man...listened to Francesa’s first hour where he was on the WS. He makes a heckuva case that the 2-1 pitch Greinke threw to Soto with one out in the 7th which was called a ball but was definitely in the zone turned the whole game and series around. He had a really good argument and can’t say I disagree. 

Hence, the reason I said I’m all for the robo strike zone the other day, even when it was a bad call that helped my guys that day. 

It’s super frustrating when a pitcher throws a perfect pitch in the zone that doesn’t get the call more than the other way around for me. 
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Yeah, it was a huge call. Made it 3-1 and at that point I think Grienke just decided to pitch around Soto rather than give him something to hit and possibly tie the game. 

And the look on Soto’s face was great. He looked at Grienke as if to say “Haha, I got lucky and now you’re in trouble.”

 
NREC34 said:
What’s your argument for no robo ump?

All the arguments I hear from others seem pretty lame. 

Sorry that a few guys that have a job because they can frame might be out of a job, that’s just collateral damage. 

Fact remains that just one bad call on a ball/strike at a crucial spot in a game can totally change everything. 

Anyway....it was a really fun month of playoff baseball. I’m sad and depressed to see it end. Got to try and care about football I guess. 
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To me that's one of the best things about sport.  Things don't have to be perfect.  Humans aren't, their games shouldn't be either.  If it teaches people how to deal with disappointment and move on, we'd all be better off. 

 
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I saw that Cole put out a statement saying how much he loved Houston, the fans and his teammates.  And he kind of apologized for what he said in his post game interview saying he was pissed about losing and he let his emotions get the better of him.  I can let that slide.  He was such a good guy.  I think the world would be better off if we gave people the benefit of the doubt that sometimes when emotions run high, we say things we don't truly mean.  And we shouldn't be judged on those times, but instead their entire body of work.

 
I bet Hinch would literally give back his salary for a year if he could go back in time and just trot out Cole to start the 7th and let the chips fall where they may. 

8 outs away with the best pitcher on the planet warmed up in the pen. Astro die hard fans will never get over this. 

Not quite to the level of Buckner or Mazeroski but still very painful. 

 
ChiefD said:
The world we are becoming is one where everyone needs an answer, and it doesn’t matter if the answer is right or wrong, as long as it fits what you want to see. I am sad that we are so eager to replace the spirit of life just to prove our own perceptions.
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That's just it.  We want the "right" answer and technology can provide that much better than "the human element".

Sorry, I'll get off your lawn now.

 
NREC34 said:
I bet Hinch would literally give back his salary for a year if he could go back in time and just trot out Cole to start the 7th and let the chips fall where they may. 

8 outs away with the best pitcher on the planet warmed up in the pen. Astro die hard fans will never get over this. 

Not quite to the level of Buckner or Mazeroski but still very painful. 
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Bringing in a starter does not guarantee anything.  Ask the Dodgers about bringing in Kershaw.  Or ask the 2017 Astros how bringing in Verlander went in the ALDS.

 
TheIronSheik said:
Bringing in a starter does not guarantee anything.  Ask the Dodgers about bringing in Kershaw.  Or ask the 2017 Astros how bringing in Verlander went in the ALDS.
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Also, Greinke had thrown < 70 pitches and given up 1 hit. This isn't a rookie. He's got pedigree.  Would be really ballsy to remove him at that point.  Sure it may have worked, or it may have backfired, but I don't think Hinch would regret the non-move at that point, at least not any more than any other little moves he made or did not make.  

 
TheIronSheik said:
Bringing in a starter does not guarantee anything.  Ask the Dodgers about bringing in Kershaw.  Or ask the 2017 Astros how bringing in Verlander went in the ALDS.
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You’re right. Harris threw a really good pitch too. The guy just hit it. 

Cole doesn’t guarantee anything. 

Nats deserve a lot of credit for coming back. 

 
ChiefD said:
Because I am tired of live sports turning into video games. 

I’m tired of people having to have “proof” that their perspective on what happened on a play is right. Damn the other side.

I’m tired of sports losing the purpose of sports.

I’m tired of people trying to remove spontaneity out of life. Let life breathe for crissakes. Let sports flow. Let people have fun. Leave something to the imagination.

The world we are becoming is one where everyone needs an answer, and it doesn’t matter if the answer is right or wrong, as long as it fits what you want to see. I am sad that we are so eager to replace the spirit of life just to prove our own perceptions.

Humans are losing their humanity. And people are screaming from the rooftops to let it happen. 
Click to expand...
HERE HERE!!!

Could not agree more ChiefD.

 
NREC34 said:
Man...listened to Francesa’s first hour where he was on the WS. He makes a heckuva case that the 2-1 pitch Greinke threw to Soto with one out in the 7th which was called a ball but was definitely in the zone turned the whole game and series around. He had a really good argument and can’t say I disagree. 

Hence, the reason I said I’m all for the robo strike zone the other day, even when it was a bad call that helped my guys that day. 

It’s super frustrating when a pitcher throws a perfect pitch in the zone that doesn’t get the call more than the other way around for me. 
Click to expand...
This argument depends on our view from the couch, using an electronic box the network superimposes on the broadcast, being better than the view from behind the plate.  Its not reliable.  I saw the pitch and agree it looked like it caught the edge of the box, but I would never expect that view to be better than what the home plate umpire sees.  That's not to say they don't make mistakes, but I don't place much value on the armchair quarterbacks and radio talk show guys driving this thing.

I don't know anything about the robo-tech these people are talking about in here, but I can't imagine using a computer to replace an umpire.  Its not like we're judging whether a tennis ball lands in our out.  The strike zone in baseball changes for every batter and every different batting stance.

 
CletiusMaximus said:
This argument depends on our view from the couch, using an electronic box the network superimposes on the broadcast, being better than the view from behind the plate.  Its not reliable.  I saw the pitch and agree it looked like it caught the edge of the box, but I would never expect that view to be better than what the home plate umpire sees.  That's not to say they don't make mistakes, but I don't place much value on the armchair quarterbacks and radio talk show guys driving this thing.

I don't know anything about the robo-tech these people are talking about in here, but I can't imagine using a computer to replace an umpire.  Its not like we're judging whether a tennis ball lands in our out.  The strike zone in baseball changes for every batter and every different batting stance.
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Yep. 100% man. 

 
CletiusMaximus said:
This argument depends on our view from the couch, using an electronic box the network superimposes on the broadcast, being better than the view from behind the plate.  Its not reliable.  I saw the pitch and agree it looked like it caught the edge of the box, but I would never expect that view to be better than what the home plate umpire sees.  That's not to say they don't make mistakes, but I don't place much value on the armchair quarterbacks and radio talk show guys driving this thing.

I don't know anything about the robo-tech these people are talking about in here, but I can't imagine using a computer to replace an umpire.  Its not like we're judging whether a tennis ball lands in our out.  The strike zone in baseball changes for every batter and every different batting stance.
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This isn't true.  You can't lay on the ground and take a walk every time.  SZ only changes for height of player.  And that box on the screen is adjusted to each batter's height.

 
TheIronSheik said:
This isn't true.  You can't lay on the ground and take a walk every time.  SZ only changes for height of player.  And that box on the screen is adjusted to each batter's height.
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His point is the box is not 100% full proof.

 
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