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TheIronSheik

2019 MLB Off Season - Winter Meetings

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48 minutes ago, tri-man 47 said:

I wonder if his last-game effort to (successfully) get to 300 Ks was a factor.

Yeah probably was a factor. 

It does no good to put up stats and wins in the regular season and then not continue the same way when you get to the postseason. Maybe they limit him during the year next year, idk. 

Of course even when he was a young stud he still never won a WS game. It’s possible that he just gets nervous on that stage also. 

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Kershaw and Verlander might be the worst postseason pitchers that will ever make the HOF.

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Man...listened to Francesa’s first hour where he was on the WS. He makes a heckuva case that the 2-1 pitch Greinke threw to Soto with one out in the 7th which was called a ball but was definitely in the zone turned the whole game and series around. He had a really good argument and can’t say I disagree. 

Hence, the reason I said I’m all for the robo strike zone the other day, even when it was a bad call that helped my guys that day. 

It’s super frustrating when a pitcher throws a perfect pitch in the zone that doesn’t get the call more than the other way around for me. 

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21 minutes ago, NREC34 said:

Man...listened to Francesa’s first hour where he was on the WS. He makes a heckuva case that the 2-1 pitch Greinke threw to Soto with one out in the 7th which was called a ball but was definitely in the zone turned the whole game and series around. He had a really good argument and can’t say I disagree. 

Hence, the reason I said I’m all for the robo strike zone the other day, even when it was a bad call that helped my guys that day. 

It’s super frustrating when a pitcher throws a perfect pitch in the zone that doesn’t get the call more than the other way around for me. 

I thought the home plate umpire did a pretty dang good job last night calling pitches.

The only two I could question was the one to Soto and the one to Correa. So one for each side.

I know that box isn't 100% accurate, so take that for whats it worth. But I pretty much agreed with his strike/ball calls all night, and I'm just a schmo with no dog in the fight.

(sidebar: if they would just get rid of that stupid box for balls and strikes it would eliminate a large part of this complaining about every dang borderline pitch.)

(sidebar 2: get off my lawn. don't want robo umps either.)

Edited by ChiefD
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3 hours ago, Engelberg said:

Worst call in baseball this year, easily.

It was the correct call based on the rule.  Turner did not run in the lane that protects him from being called for interference.  He did interfere with Gurriel's ability to catch the ball. 

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17 minutes ago, ChiefD said:

I thought the home plate umpire did a pretty dang good job last night calling pitches.

The only two I could question was the one to Soto and the one to Correa. So one for each side.

I know that box isn't 100% accurate, so take that for whats it worth. But I pretty much agreed with his strike/ball calls all night, and I'm just a schmo with no dog in the fight.

(sidebar: if they would just get rid of that stupid box for balls and strikes it would eliminate a large part of this complaining about every dang borderline pitch.)

(sidebar 2: get off my lawn. don't want robo umps either.)

What’s your argument for no robo ump?

All the arguments I hear from others seem pretty lame. 

Sorry that a few guys that have a job because they can frame might be out of a job, that’s just collateral damage. 

Fact remains that just one bad call on a ball/strike at a crucial spot in a game can totally change everything. 

Anyway....it was a really fun month of playoff baseball. I’m sad and depressed to see it end. Got to try and care about football I guess. 

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i only wish the nats had won on a hr and carried the bat all the way home take that to the bank bromigos

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5 hours ago, NREC34 said:

What’s your argument for no robo ump?

All the arguments I hear from others seem pretty lame. 

Sorry that a few guys that have a job because they can frame might be out of a job, that’s just collateral damage. 

Fact remains that just one bad call on a ball/strike at a crucial spot in a game can totally change everything. 

Anyway....it was a really fun month of playoff baseball. I’m sad and depressed to see it end. Got to try and care about football I guess. 

Because I am tired of live sports turning into video games. 

I’m tired of people having to have “proof” that their perspective on what happened on a play is right. Damn the other side.

I’m tired of sports losing the purpose of sports.

I’m tired of people trying to remove spontaneity out of life. Let life breathe for crissakes. Let sports flow. Let people have fun. Leave something to the imagination.

The world we are becoming is one where everyone needs an answer, and it doesn’t matter if the answer is right or wrong, as long as it fits what you want to see. I am sad that we are so eager to replace the spirit of life just to prove our own perceptions.

Humans are losing their humanity. And people are screaming from the rooftops to let it happen. 

Edited by ChiefD
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6 hours ago, ChiefD said:

The only two I could question was the one to Soto and the one to Correa. So one for each side.

Wasn’t really one for each side. Both of those went the Nats way. 

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6 hours ago, NREC34 said:

Man...listened to Francesa’s first hour where he was on the WS. He makes a heckuva case that the 2-1 pitch Greinke threw to Soto with one out in the 7th which was called a ball but was definitely in the zone turned the whole game and series around. He had a really good argument and can’t say I disagree. 

Hence, the reason I said I’m all for the robo strike zone the other day, even when it was a bad call that helped my guys that day. 

It’s super frustrating when a pitcher throws a perfect pitch in the zone that doesn’t get the call more than the other way around for me. 

Yeah, it was a huge call. Made it 3-1 and at that point I think Grienke just decided to pitch around Soto rather than give him something to hit and possibly tie the game. 

And the look on Soto’s face was great. He looked at Grienke as if to say “Haha, I got lucky and now you’re in trouble.”

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16 hours ago, NREC34 said:

What’s your argument for no robo ump?

All the arguments I hear from others seem pretty lame. 

Sorry that a few guys that have a job because they can frame might be out of a job, that’s just collateral damage. 

Fact remains that just one bad call on a ball/strike at a crucial spot in a game can totally change everything. 

Anyway....it was a really fun month of playoff baseball. I’m sad and depressed to see it end. Got to try and care about football I guess. 

To me that's one of the best things about sport.  Things don't have to be perfect.  Humans aren't, their games shouldn't be either.  If it teaches people how to deal with disappointment and move on, we'd all be better off. 

Edited by Skipdog77
excess of "o"s
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10 hours ago, dgreen said:

Wasn’t really one for each side. Both of those went the Nats way. 

Yep, you are correct.  My bad.

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I saw that Cole put out a statement saying how much he loved Houston, the fans and his teammates.  And he kind of apologized for what he said in his post game interview saying he was pissed about losing and he let his emotions get the better of him.  I can let that slide.  He was such a good guy.  I think the world would be better off if we gave people the benefit of the doubt that sometimes when emotions run high, we say things we don't truly mean.  And we shouldn't be judged on those times, but instead their entire body of work.

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I bet Hinch would literally give back his salary for a year if he could go back in time and just trot out Cole to start the 7th and let the chips fall where they may. 

8 outs away with the best pitcher on the planet warmed up in the pen. Astro die hard fans will never get over this. 

Not quite to the level of Buckner or Mazeroski but still very painful. 

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11 hours ago, ChiefD said:

The world we are becoming is one where everyone needs an answer, and it doesn’t matter if the answer is right or wrong, as long as it fits what you want to see. I am sad that we are so eager to replace the spirit of life just to prove our own perceptions.

 

That's just it.  We want the "right" answer and technology can provide that much better than "the human element".

Sorry, I'll get off your lawn now.

 

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30 minutes ago, NREC34 said:

I bet Hinch would literally give back his salary for a year if he could go back in time and just trot out Cole to start the 7th and let the chips fall where they may. 

8 outs away with the best pitcher on the planet warmed up in the pen. Astro die hard fans will never get over this. 

Not quite to the level of Buckner or Mazeroski but still very painful. 

Bringing in a starter does not guarantee anything.  Ask the Dodgers about bringing in Kershaw.  Or ask the 2017 Astros how bringing in Verlander went in the ALDS.

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3 minutes ago, TheIronSheik said:

Bringing in a starter does not guarantee anything.  Ask the Dodgers about bringing in Kershaw.  Or ask the 2017 Astros how bringing in Verlander went in the ALDS.

Also, Greinke had thrown < 70 pitches and given up 1 hit. This isn't a rookie. He's got pedigree.  Would be really ballsy to remove him at that point.  Sure it may have worked, or it may have backfired, but I don't think Hinch would regret the non-move at that point, at least not any more than any other little moves he made or did not make.  

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21 minutes ago, TheIronSheik said:

Bringing in a starter does not guarantee anything.  Ask the Dodgers about bringing in Kershaw.  Or ask the 2017 Astros how bringing in Verlander went in the ALDS.

You’re right. Harris threw a really good pitch too. The guy just hit it. 

Cole doesn’t guarantee anything. 

Nats deserve a lot of credit for coming back. 

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14 hours ago, ChiefD said:

Because I am tired of live sports turning into video games. 

I’m tired of people having to have “proof” that their perspective on what happened on a play is right. Damn the other side.

I’m tired of sports losing the purpose of sports.

I’m tired of people trying to remove spontaneity out of life. Let life breathe for crissakes. Let sports flow. Let people have fun. Leave something to the imagination.

The world we are becoming is one where everyone needs an answer, and it doesn’t matter if the answer is right or wrong, as long as it fits what you want to see. I am sad that we are so eager to replace the spirit of life just to prove our own perceptions.

Humans are losing their humanity. And people are screaming from the rooftops to let it happen. 

HERE HERE!!!

Could not agree more ChiefD.

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21 hours ago, NREC34 said:

Man...listened to Francesa’s first hour where he was on the WS. He makes a heckuva case that the 2-1 pitch Greinke threw to Soto with one out in the 7th which was called a ball but was definitely in the zone turned the whole game and series around. He had a really good argument and can’t say I disagree. 

Hence, the reason I said I’m all for the robo strike zone the other day, even when it was a bad call that helped my guys that day. 

It’s super frustrating when a pitcher throws a perfect pitch in the zone that doesn’t get the call more than the other way around for me. 

This argument depends on our view from the couch, using an electronic box the network superimposes on the broadcast, being better than the view from behind the plate.  Its not reliable.  I saw the pitch and agree it looked like it caught the edge of the box, but I would never expect that view to be better than what the home plate umpire sees.  That's not to say they don't make mistakes, but I don't place much value on the armchair quarterbacks and radio talk show guys driving this thing.

I don't know anything about the robo-tech these people are talking about in here, but I can't imagine using a computer to replace an umpire.  Its not like we're judging whether a tennis ball lands in our out.  The strike zone in baseball changes for every batter and every different batting stance.

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13 minutes ago, CletiusMaximus said:

This argument depends on our view from the couch, using an electronic box the network superimposes on the broadcast, being better than the view from behind the plate.  Its not reliable.  I saw the pitch and agree it looked like it caught the edge of the box, but I would never expect that view to be better than what the home plate umpire sees.  That's not to say they don't make mistakes, but I don't place much value on the armchair quarterbacks and radio talk show guys driving this thing.

I don't know anything about the robo-tech these people are talking about in here, but I can't imagine using a computer to replace an umpire.  Its not like we're judging whether a tennis ball lands in our out.  The strike zone in baseball changes for every batter and every different batting stance.

Yep. 100% man. 

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18 minutes ago, CletiusMaximus said:

This argument depends on our view from the couch, using an electronic box the network superimposes on the broadcast, being better than the view from behind the plate.  Its not reliable.  I saw the pitch and agree it looked like it caught the edge of the box, but I would never expect that view to be better than what the home plate umpire sees.  That's not to say they don't make mistakes, but I don't place much value on the armchair quarterbacks and radio talk show guys driving this thing.

I don't know anything about the robo-tech these people are talking about in here, but I can't imagine using a computer to replace an umpire.  Its not like we're judging whether a tennis ball lands in our out.  The strike zone in baseball changes for every batter and every different batting stance.

This isn't true.  You can't lay on the ground and take a walk every time.  SZ only changes for height of player.  And that box on the screen is adjusted to each batter's height.

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2 minutes ago, TheIronSheik said:

This isn't true.  You can't lay on the ground and take a walk every time.  SZ only changes for height of player.  And that box on the screen is adjusted to each batter's height.

His point is the box is not 100% full proof.

Edited by Todem

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You measure every player in spring training and put that into a database for the zone. Woilla 

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19 minutes ago, Todem said:

His point is the box is not 100% full proof.

But it is.  They measure from the knees to the letters.  That box is not the same for every batter.  

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1 hour ago, TheIronSheik said:

This isn't true.  You can't lay on the ground and take a walk every time.  SZ only changes for height of player.  And that box on the screen is adjusted to each batter's height.

This purports to be the official MLB rule (https://img.mlbstatic.com/mlb-images/image/upload/mlb/ub08blsefk8wkkd2oemz.pdf )

Quote

The STRIKE ZONE is that area over home plate the upper limit of which is a horizontal line at the midpoint between the top of the shoulders and the top of the uniform pants, and the lower level is a line at the hollow beneath the kneecap. The Strike Zone shall be determined from the batter’s stance as the batter is prepared to swing at a pitched ball. (For diagram of STRIKE ZONE see Appendix 5.)

Is this really the rule?  It looks like it, but I honestly don't know.  This is obviously extremely vague.  Check out the diagram at Appendix 5.  You've first got to find the midpoint between the top of the batter's shoulders and the top of his uniform pants.  This means that the strike zone changes if the batter hikes his pants up between pitches.  Then, you've got to find "the hollow beneath the kneecap."  If you want to know WTF that is, look at the diagram in Appendix 5.  This determination is all made when the batter is in his stance, prepared to swing.  This means the official or "true" strike zone changes not only from batter to batter, but can also change between pitches to a batter if he alters his stance.

As terrible as this rule is, it is nonetheless one of the cool things about baseball.  

 

 

 

Edited by CletiusMaximus

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1 hour ago, Todem said:

His point is the box is not 100% full proof.

This is also true - the box we see on television is a gimmick.  Its obviously not reliable because it is 2D, whereas a strikezone is a 3D box and the ball is moving up/down and left/right as it travels over the plate.  The Robo-ump would have to involve multiple cameras that track the ball from different angles. The controversial Grienke pitch is a a perfect example of that -- a curveball that is moving down and away.  From the television angle behind the pitcher, there's no way to know with any certainty whether that ball was in the strike zone.

 

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5 hours ago, NREC34 said:

I bet Hinch would literally give back his salary for a year if he could go back in time and just trot out Cole to start the 7th and let the chips fall where they may. 

8 outs away with the best pitcher on the planet warmed up in the pen. Astro die hard fans will never get over this. 

Not quite to the level of Buckner or Mazeroski but still very painful. 

 

5 hours ago, TheIronSheik said:

Bringing in a starter does not guarantee anything.  Ask the Dodgers about bringing in Kershaw.  Or ask the 2017 Astros how bringing in Verlander went in the ALDS.

 

5 hours ago, falguy said:

Also, Greinke had thrown < 70 pitches and given up 1 hit. This isn't a rookie. He's got pedigree.  Would be really ballsy to remove him at that point.  Sure it may have worked, or it may have backfired, but I don't think Hinch would regret the non-move at that point, at least not any more than any other little moves he made or did not make.  

I would more second guess taking Greinke out.  To that point he gave up 2 hits and 1 walk and was low on pitches.  I think I would have left him in.  

 

Essentially it's a result driven argument.  If Harris gets Kendrick to hit into a double play everyone says how that was a great call to wait on Cole.  Since Harris gave up a dinger (on a good pitch that Kendrick just beat him on) everyone second guesses and says it was the wrong call.  Sometimes it is the right decision and the other guy just beats you.  That is just as likely here as it was that bringing in Harris was a bad decision.

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I initially read it as Cole showed up to his interview in a Borat hat.

I wanted to know where to get one of those.

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Royals sign Matheny for manager. Not a fan of this move at all. Nor are most Royals fans. We shall see. 

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37 minutes ago, TheIronSheik said:

Strasburg opting out is surprising.

It’s 4/100 right? He’ll easily top that. 

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39 minutes ago, TheIronSheik said:

Strasburg opting out is surprising.

No it isn't.   He will crush 4/100 on the market and a lot of that $100M was deferred money.  

I do think he and Rendon want to stay in Washington but opting out was an easy decision.

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You can sign a contract extension and get paid what you want by the team you play for.  Or you can opt out, which is basically telling the team you play for, "I'm leaving you for someone better."  Better meaning money.  He is basically saying "No home town discount."  And Washington won't have money to sign both or either.  

So, yeah, it might be an easy decision in the sense to get more money.  But look at Chapman.  It's a surprise that Strasburg has not allegiance to the Nats.

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1 minute ago, TheIronSheik said:

You can sign a contract extension and get paid what you want by the team you play for.  Or you can opt out, which is basically telling the team you play for, "I'm leaving you for someone better."  Better meaning money.  He is basically saying "No home town discount."  And Washington won't have money to sign both or either.  

So, yeah, it might be an easy decision in the sense to get more money.  But look at Chapman.  It's a surprise that Strasburg has not allegiance to the Nats.

Their owner is a 90 something year old worth 5+ billion. 

That’s a load of 🙂 saying they don’t have the money. 

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1 hour ago, NREC34 said:

Their owner is a 90 something year old worth 5+ billion. 

That’s a load of 🙂 saying they don’t have the money. 

Everyone has the money.  But it's a matter of spending over the cap.  Is it worth it to just throw money away for no guaranteed return?  

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No player should ever give a team a home town discount. Get that money. 

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5 minutes ago, TheIronSheik said:

Everyone has the money.  But it's a matter of spending over the cap.  Is it worth it to just throw money away for no guaranteed return?  

If I was their owner I would re-sign everyone and probably sign more free agents.  

Might as well win again. He can’t take it with him.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Capella said:

No player should ever give a team a home town discount. Get that money. 

It doesn't have to be so much a "discount."  Look at Mike Trout as an example.  He could have made more money as a Phillie.  But he reupped before the end of his contract.

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1 hour ago, NREC34 said:

Their owner is a 90 something year old worth 5+ billion. 

That’s a load of 🙂 saying they don’t have the money. 

His son has been the "managing principal owner" for a years now.  I'm not sure how the share split looks now, but the team is expected to stay in the hands of the Lerner family.

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I think the Phillies should sign Rendon and Strasburg and change the name to the Washington Nationals of Philadelphia.

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2 hours ago, TheIronSheik said:

You can sign a contract extension and get paid what you want by the team you play for.  Or you can opt out, which is basically telling the team you play for, "I'm leaving you for someone better."  Better meaning money.  He is basically saying "No home town discount."  And Washington won't have money to sign both or either.  

So, yeah, it might be an easy decision in the sense to get more money.  But look at Chapman.  It's a surprise that Strasburg has not allegiance to the Nats.

Who knows how it will end up but Strasburg doesn't live in San Diego anymore and has moved his family to DC.  From all accounts, he loves the city and the area.   And he would be a moron to stay at $100M if he can get $150M or $200M.   

I don't get the sense Rendon is going strictly to the highest bidder either.  Neither of these guys are Bryce Harper.  That doesn't mean they won't leave but Strasburg didn't opt out because he wants to leave.  That's nonsense

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Just now, Ramblin Wreck said:

Who knows how it will end up but Strasburg doesn't live in San Diego anymore and has moved his family to DC.  From all accounts, he loves the city and the area.   And he would be a moron to stay at $100M if he can get $150M or $200M.   

I don't get the sense Rendon is going strictly to the highest bidder either.  Neither of these guys are Bryce Harper.  That doesn't mean they won't leave but Strasburg didn't opt out because he wants to leave.  That's nonsense

Harper took less money to play for the Phillies.

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On 10/31/2019 at 4:04 PM, Gally said:

He did interfere with Gurriel's ability to catch the ball. 

So he should have slid into 1st base. Only possible way not to interfere. Didn't know the runner isn't entitled to the bag. And he was not out of the baseline. It was a brutally bad call.

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2 minutes ago, Engelberg said:

So he should have slid into 1st base. Only possible way not to interfere. Didn't know the runner isn't entitled to the bag. And he was not out of the baseline. It was a brutally bad call.

Do you see that second line to the right of the first base line?  That box is where the runner is supposed to be running.  That's his safe spot.  Do you see where Trea Turner is?

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6 minutes ago, TheIronSheik said:

Do you see that second line to the right of the first base line?  That box is where the runner is supposed to be running.  That's his safe spot.  Do you see where Trea Turner is?

By the time he got to the bag he was dead nuts in the center. Where is he supposed to go?

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24 minutes ago, Engelberg said:

By the time he got to the bag he was dead nuts in the center. Where is he supposed to go?

He was always to the left of the line.  And again, the rule states that the runner cannot interfere with the catch.  You can say you hate the rule, but the correct call was made.

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39 minutes ago, Engelberg said:

So he should have slid into 1st base. Only possible way not to interfere. Didn't know the runner isn't entitled to the bag. And he was not out of the baseline. It was a brutally bad call.

No.  The running lane (foul territory to the right of the foul line as running towards first) is there to allow the runner to run towards first without being subject to being called out for interference.  Turner did not run in this lane which is why he was called for interference.  The rule was implemented properly and the correct call was made.

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5 hours ago, Capella said:

No player should ever give a team a home town discount. Get that money. 

None do. It's really only happened a few times. Like, a fraction of a percentage of the time. And never for the truly top tier Free Agents. Not only do players not want to do it, but the union highly frowns upon it since its doing a disservice to all your fellow players.

Yet every year, I hear this argument from people. Just last year, it was Harper is a "West Coast Guy" and Corbin has been a Yankees fan his whole life, and Machado will go to the White Sox because they picked up his brother-in-law. Its all ridiculous. They all take the most money. I'm already hearing Cole will most likely go to the Angels or Dodgers because he's a "California guy". NO HE WONT. He'll go to whichever team offers the most money. Just like every other big name FA in history.

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