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TheIronSheik

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4 hours ago, TheIronSheik said:

Surprised Cole lost to Verlander.  That was a shocker.

Hoping some Giants fans can help me with this.  I tape Intentional Talk on MLB Network and when I went to watch yesterday's episode, it was pre-empted by the Giants press conference of introducing Kapler.  Thing is, it came in not at the beginning.  The owner (Middle Eastern named guy) was apologizing for something.  He kept saying he needed to do a better job at "that" and that they needed to work on "that" at all levels of the organization.  Then Kapler went into the same thing.  But they never mentioned what they were apologizing for.  I ended up watching about 10 minutes of it before I got bored and fast forwarded.  When it was over, they went to the guys in the studio and the one guy asked what he thought of the presser.  And the guy said, "One word: Wow."  Then they went on to talk about how odd that presser was because usually introducing a new manager is a good thing but they kept talking about contentious it was.

What happened? :confused:

Back story from when Zaidi and Kapler were in the Dodgers organization.

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17 minutes ago, Eephus said:

What is so odd about that is Kapler led domestic violence awareness days when he was a member of the Red Sox. His wife had been in a physically abusive relationship before he married her. He should absolutely know better. 

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Saw this over on Reddit: Astros plate discipline numbers in all games (MLB rank in parentheses):

Year Contact Swinging Strike
2014 75.7% (30) 11.2% (28)
2015 75.9% (29) 11.5% (29)
2016 74.7% (29) 11.4% (28)
2017 81.2% (1) 8.5% (1)
2018 79.9% (2) 8.9% (2)
2019 80.7% (1) 8.6% (1)

That is some kind of turnaround starting in 2017.    Amazing 🤣

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20 minutes ago, kodycutter said:

Saw this over on Reddit: Astros plate discipline numbers in all games (MLB rank in parentheses):

Year Contact Swinging Strike
2014 75.7% (30) 11.2% (28)
2015 75.9% (29) 11.5% (29)
2016 74.7% (29) 11.4% (28)
2017 81.2% (1) 8.5% (1)
2018 79.9% (2) 8.9% (2)
2019 80.7% (1) 8.6% (1)

That is some kind of turnaround starting in 2017.    Amazing 🤣

Well, the 2014 and 2015 teams were terrible and had no name players.  

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They added Beltran in ‘17 too. He’s notorious for figuring out tipped pitches. 

Don’t see how these stats prove a thing. 

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6 hours ago, TheIronSheik said:

Surprised Cole lost to Verlander.  That was a shocker.

Hoping some Giants fans can help me with this.  I tape Intentional Talk on MLB Network and when I went to watch yesterday's episode, it was pre-empted by the Giants press conference of introducing Kapler.  Thing is, it came in not at the beginning.  The owner (Middle Eastern named guy) was apologizing for something.  He kept saying he needed to do a better job at "that" and that they needed to work on "that" at all levels of the organization.  Then Kapler went into the same thing.  But they never mentioned what they were apologizing for.  I ended up watching about 10 minutes of it before I got bored and fast forwarded.  When it was over, they went to the guys in the studio and the one guy asked what he thought of the presser.  And the guy said, "One word: Wow."  Then they went on to talk about how odd that presser was because usually introducing a new manager is a good thing but they kept talking about contentious it was.

What happened? :confused:

I think Cole had a stronger finish but Verlander was more consistent 

i had bets on both to win though 💰

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I don’t really follow but I just assumed Cole would be the runaway winner. Was pretty surprised to see it was Verlander. 

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7 minutes ago, Capella said:

I don’t really follow but I just assumed Cole would be the runaway winner. Was pretty surprised to see it was Verlander. 

They were saying it was neck and neck towards the end of the season.  And really, I don't think there was a wrong pick.  You could make a case for either.  But I thought Cole would win, especially with all of the K's he was throwing up this season.

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So let me get this straight. Patriots video practices is cheating. But astros using video to steal signs DURING games is not cheating? 

Take off the rose colored glasses. Hinch is gonna get a huge suspension and Astros are definitely gonna lose draft picks. 

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On 11/13/2019 at 4:44 PM, NREC34 said:

What rule at the time did they break?

You can't be serious here. 

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11 minutes ago, shadyridr said:

You can't be serious here. 

I may also have on said rose colored glasses but I'm not sure I understand the outrage here or what they did wrong either. Hasn't sign stealing long been a part of the game?  And doing it electronically wasn't illegal until after 2017?

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2 minutes ago, Ron Swanson said:

I may also have on said rose colored glasses but I'm not sure I understand the outrage here or what they did wrong either. Hasn't sign stealing long been a part of the game?  And doing it electronically wasn't illegal until after 2017?

There's a reason it was made illegal. BECAUSE IT WAS CHEATING

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So if it wasn't against the rules in 2017 why is MLB investigating? Why hasn't Hinch come out and say "yeah we did it but we stopped doing it once the rule was put in place"

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2 minutes ago, shadyridr said:

There's a reason it was made illegal. BECAUSE IT WAS CHEATING

But it can't be cheating until after its illegal, right?

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1 minute ago, shadyridr said:

So if it wasn't against the rules in 2017 why is MLB investigating? Why hasn't Hinch come out and say "yeah we did it but we stopped doing it once the rule was put in place"

Pandering to the masses.

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3 minutes ago, Ron Swanson said:

But it can't be cheating until after its illegal, right?

If they get penalized will you admit defeat?

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1 minute ago, shadyridr said:

If they get penalized will you admit defeat?

I don't know that I would think of it as defeat but yes, if they are penalized then they must have broken a rule.

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14 minutes ago, Ron Swanson said:

I don't know that I would think of it as defeat but yes, if they are penalized then they must have broken a rule.

I shouldn't have said defeat. You've been very civil. My apologies. I guess we'll just wait and see. 

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2 hours ago, TheIronSheik said:

But that seems like an old story.  Why did it come up during his introduction?  I assume a reporter asked trying to make a name for him/herself?

The handling of the sexual assault has been a big deal on Giants Twitter and media throughout the interview process.  It's a bad look from a franchise that had its President/CEO suspended for three months this season following a public altercation with his wife.

It's awkward when a new managerial hire is immediately on the defensive and its not like Kapler can flash his ring to distract the fanbase.  Zaidi and the front office must be banking that it'll blow over by opening day.  It probably will but this hasn't been a popular move.

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14 hours ago, NREC34 said:

A disgruntled player now on a division rival who got left off the postseason roster. Yes. 

You also have another player, Beltran who says they didn’t. 

I see a lot of people on Twitter saying that they think these clips are faked. 

If they did do it some in some regular season games it wasn’t against the written rules at the time. They also should’ve figured out something better than banging on a trash can. Too obvious. 

really don’t care at all (I think all teams should cheat as much as possible) but you can’t just ignore what a player on the team is saying like he’s some jilted boyfriend with hurt feelings.
 

Players change teams literally all the time without making these accusations. You’re just being a super homer here. Your team cheated. They got away with it. It’s not a personal assault on your character. Just enjoy it. I would find it hilarious if my team cheated this much and pulled it off. I wish the Bucs would start cheating for God’s sake. 

Edited by Capella
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Mike Trout!  Now tied for the 2nd most MVPs in baseball history.  :tebow:

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2 hours ago, gump said:

Mike Trout!  Now tied for the 2nd most MVPs in baseball history.  :tebow:

Trout is so good.  The league needs him in some postseasons.

Greatest thing to come out of Millville NJ.

Edited by kodycutter

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14 hours ago, shadyridr said:

So let me get this straight. Patriots video practices is cheating. But astros using video to steal signs DURING games is not cheating? 

Take off the rose colored glasses. Hinch is gonna get a huge suspension and Astros are definitely gonna lose draft picks. 

Apples and oranges.  Sign stealing has been part of the game forever.  It's like saying you watched an NHL game, saw a guy fight and only get a penalty, yet in the NBA he'd get a suspension.  

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13 hours ago, shadyridr said:

I shouldn't have said defeat. You've been very civil. My apologies. I guess we'll just wait and see. 

Keep in mind, it wasn't just the Astros listed as doing this.

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13 hours ago, Eephus said:

The handling of the sexual assault has been a big deal on Giants Twitter and media throughout the interview process.  It's a bad look from a franchise that had its President/CEO suspended for three months this season following a public altercation with his wife.

It's awkward when a new managerial hire is immediately on the defensive and its not like Kapler can flash his ring to distract the fanbase.  Zaidi and the front office must be banking that it'll blow over by opening day.  It probably will but this hasn't been a popular move.

Got it.  That makes a lot more sense.  Thanks for the explanation because I had no clue. :thumbup:

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9 hours ago, gump said:

Mike Trout!  Now tied for the 2nd most MVPs in baseball history.  :tebow:

I'm a huge Trout fan.  But Bregman should have won.  I also feel like if Trout could win and miss a chunk of the season, then maybe Yellich should have won for the NL.

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One thing I don't get about the sign stealing accusations is that I thought I read that MLB put a representative in each dugout to make sure no cameras or video devices were being used.  If this is true, how did they get away with it?  I know they said it was down the tunnel, but I would think the reps would still have access to that area. 

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4 minutes ago, TheIronSheik said:

One thing I don't get about the sign stealing accusations is that I thought I read that MLB put a representative in each dugout to make sure no cameras or video devices were being used.  If this is true, how did they get away with it?  I know they said it was down the tunnel, but I would think the reps would still have access to that area. 

They did this after 2017

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9 minutes ago, TheIronSheik said:

Keep in mind, it wasn't just the Astros listed as doing this.

Like who?

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10 minutes ago, TheIronSheik said:

Apples and oranges.  Sign stealing has been part of the game forever.  It's like saying you watched an NHL game, saw a guy fight and only get a penalty, yet in the NBA he'd get a suspension.  

Sign stealing using a video has been part of the game forever? Who knew

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Another video. Gonna be funny when the Mets new manager gets suspended for something he did with another team. Saw a funny tweet yesterday. Something like "if only Beltran knew what pitch was coming vs the Cardinals"

https://nypost.com/2019/11/14/video-suggests-carlos-beltran-got-stolen-astros-signs-in-2017-at-bat/

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3 minutes ago, shadyridr said:

Like who?

I didn't read the article because it's subscription based.  But it said multiple teams.  The focus was on the Astros because they won the WS.

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2 minutes ago, TheIronSheik said:

I didn't read the article because it's subscription based.  But it said multiple teams.  The focus was on the Astros because they won the WS.

Sorry, but I haven't seen any accusations about sign stealing using video about any other teams. :shrug:

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Look sign stealing WITHOUT video has been going on since the dawn of baseball. Its why catchers change the signs when a runner is on second. But when a runner is NOT on second, the catcher throws down #1 for fastball, #2 for changeup, etc. They've been doing that forever too. Its because they don't think a team has an illegal video camera in centerfield sending signs to the dugout.

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2 minutes ago, shadyridr said:

Sorry, but I haven't seen any accusations about sign stealing using video about any other teams. :shrug:

I accept your apology.

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1 minute ago, shadyridr said:

Look sign stealing WITHOUT video has been going on since the dawn of baseball. Its why catchers change the signs when a runner is on second. But when a runner is NOT on second, the catcher throws down #1 for fastball, #2 for changeup, etc. They've been doing that forever too. Its because they don't think a team has an illegal video camera in centerfield sending signs to the dugout.

Again, we live in a world where cameras are everywhere.  If you're dumb enough to throw down a one or a two, you deserve to have your signs stolen.  Being dumb is not an excuse.  

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Just now, TheIronSheik said:

Again, we live in a world where cameras are everywhere.  If you're dumb enough to throw down a one or a two, you deserve to have your signs stolen.  Being dumb is not an excuse.  

This sounds a little like victim blaming but whatever. Im not gonna debate this crap anymore with completely illogical and biased Astros fans. Just wait until the suspensions come down. They should be hefty.

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11 hours ago, Capella said:

really don’t care at all (I think all teams should cheat as much as possible) but you can’t just ignore what a player on the team is saying like he’s some jilted boyfriend with hurt feelings.
 

Players change teams literally all the time without making these accusations. You’re just being a super homer here. Your team cheated. They got away with it. It’s not a personal assault on your character. Just enjoy it. I would find it hilarious if my team cheated this much and pulled it off. I wish the Bucs would start cheating for God’s sake. 

Yeah I feel they pushed the envelope and want to see what comes out of it. I think it probably goes way beyond the Astros. I’m pretty sure it was going on big time in the ‘18 ALCS and the Astros knew without a doubt that Boston was doing it. I think Beltran was the ringleader of the whole thing but I see an article today where he has doubled down on saying nothing illegal was done. 

I think the organization that ought to be most upset probably ought to be LA. Going to be interesting to see what happens in the coming months of the offseason. 

If earpieces/ electronic strike zone happens, I’ll be happy. Baseball needs to keep up with technology and the times.    

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1 minute ago, shadyridr said:

This sounds a little like victim blaming but whatever. Im not gonna debate this crap anymore with completely illogical and biased Astros fans. Just wait until the suspensions come down. They should be hefty.

First of all, GB, you know I love you.  

But as I stated from the beginning, I don't care what team it is/was, I don't think sign stealing is bad.  I don't think it's victim blaming because I don't think there's a victim.  The Astros have had players come and go, on and off the team for the past 3-4 years they've said this was going on.  Why didn't any other player bring it up?  It's just not a big deal. 

We can disagree on this.  But remember....

BOOM!  AND IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII-e-IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII WILL ALWAYS LOVEEEEEE YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-o-UUUUUUUUUUUU! 

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That’s not just sign stealing, it was an organized team wide plan to cheat. It would be no different than using a pointed microphone into a team’s huddle and feeding that information to the defense before each snap.  
 

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I’m reading on Twitter that a bunch of fake stuff being floated around on YouTube by Yankee fans. I have seen a bunch of stuff. One I saw last night had whistling in ‘17 WS game 5. Have no idea if it was fake. Wouldn’t surprise me. It would take a lot of balls to try it the in actual WS where everyone is watching. Seems like a bad system to me if they’re using sounds. 

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Just now, bigmarc27 said:

That’s not just sign stealing, it was an organized team wide plan to cheat. It would be no different than using a pointed microphone into a team’s huddle and feeding that information to the defense before each snap.  
 

That would be different.  That's telling you the direct play.  While knowing the pitch is helpful, you still don't know where that pitch is going.  Is it up?  Down?  Is it burying it?  Is it breaking in the zone or out?  There's also a big difference between a change up and a breaking ball.  So, yes, knowing what pitch is obviously helpful, it does not tell you everything.

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Just now, NREC34 said:

I’m reading on Twitter that a bunch of fake stuff being floated around on YouTube by Yankee fans. I have seen a bunch of stuff. One I saw last night had whistling in ‘17 WS game 5. Have no idea if it was fake. Wouldn’t surprise me. It would take a lot of balls to try it the in actual WS where everyone is watching. Seems like a bad system to me if they’re using sounds. 

Is the jomboy video or the one linked above in the NYPost article fake?

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Just now, TheIronSheik said:

That would be different.  That's telling you the direct play.  While knowing the pitch is helpful, you still don't know where that pitch is going.  Is it up?  Down?  Is it burying it?  Is it breaking in the zone or out?  There's also a big difference between a change up and a breaking ball.  So, yes, knowing what pitch is obviously helpful, it does not tell you everything.

But it is helpful :shrug:

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Just now, shadyridr said:

But it is helpful :shrug:

Yes.  I said that.  I was referencing how he said it's like listening in on the huddle in football.  I was just saying that's not the same.  

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4 minutes ago, shadyridr said:

Is the jomboy video or the one linked above in the NYPost article fake?

I doubt it. I would think regular season games where the crowd is sparse and noise is low would be when you’d try to do it. 

If it comes out that it was done in the playoffs all hell gonna break loose lol. 

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2 minutes ago, NREC34 said:

I doubt it. I would think regular season games where the crowd is sparse and noise is low would be when you’d try to do it. 

If it comes out that it was done in the playoffs all hell gonna break loose lol. 

Why would they do it in regular season but not in playoffs?

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To the people that think this is serious, what kind of penalties are you thinking are warranted?  Is this worse than what the Cardinals did with the hacking?  Serious question.  

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