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You're right.  I was arguing against Euphus and yourself at the same time and combining your arguments.  My bad.

That said, being in the playoffs 16 times out of the last 20 years does not qualify as sucking.  Just because you happen to have a few young players under team control while having the largest payroll in baseball continuously, and signing the best free agent pitchers available does not equate to what small market teams need to do to win.
Last year was the first time the Yankees won the division since 2012. That's pretty bad. And your last statement about them signing the best free agent pitchers isn't fair. Until Cole they have been often criticized for passing on the biggest free agents every year. The last ace they signed was CC in 2009. They passed on Corbin last year. Passed on trading for Sale. Passed on trading for Verlander. Passed on Price, Also, its pretty much consensus the Yankees HAD to sign Cole to get over the hump of needing an ace.

Also, Yankees haven't had the highest payroll in baseball since 2013 ;)

http://www.stevetheump.com/Payrolls.htm

Your whole post sounds like it should've been made 10 years ago. Not now.

 
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Making the playoffs isn't the goal, winning a championship is.  The Twins made the playoffs this year, but their one series showed the huge gap in talent they have to be able to compete for a title.

While there are some top teams built around home grown talent, the difference between small and big market teams is keeping that core together.  Small market teams can bring a young core up together and compete briefly, but can't afford to keep everyone together once they hit free agency.

The Dodgers have a nice young core of cheap players, but if they were a small market team, they would have lost Kershaw a long time ago, wouldn't have kept Jansen at that salary, wouldn't have resigned Turner to a big contract after he broke out, and wouldn't have afforded Russ Martin, Ryu, Hill, etc.  Take those salaries off the Dodgers, and you still have a nice core, but not a constant WS favorite.  Yanks, etc, are have their young core bolstered by huge salaries small markets teams don't have scattered through their roster.
The Yankees and Dodgers have gone a total of 41 years without winning a championship.  The post-season is a crap shoot, getting there may not be the ultimate goal for teams but it's certainly a sign of a successful campaign.

The key to success in the modern game is to assemble a cast of high-value talent, players who'll outperform their cost.  That path is open to all clubs.  As you've pointed out, big market teams have two major advantages: acquiring key free agents to supplement their core and retaining homegrown talent as it matures.  But that'll only lead to success if the foundation is in place.  There hasn't been a title winning club made up mainly of mercenaries since the 1970s/early 80s; the current rules don't allow it.  Keeping a core intact can be a double-edged sword as well.  Case in point, my Giants have had a failed half decade as a worse, older and more expensive version of their championship teams.

As I've said in other posts, the current playing field isn't truly level.  Richer clubs are better equipped to make a short-term push to the top and maintain their spot for a little longer once they've made it there.  But they still have to beat 29 other clubs by achieving a positive hit rate on hundreds of major and minor decisions.  I think the current system is "fairer" that it used to be.  There will always be asymmetric revenue streams that favor some teams over others but every year, some small market teams put together solid teams with a chance to compete for titles.  Any more dramatic changes to the financial balance of the sport will have to be signed off by 30 billionaires with big egos and be subject to collective bargaining with the MLBPA.

Some will win, some will lose, just as it's been since 1869.  My team is almost certainly going to lose more than they win this season but I still can't wait for Opening Day.

 
Last year was the first time the Yankees won the division since 2012. That's pretty bad. And your last statement about them signing the best free agent pitchers isn't fair. Until Cole they have been often criticized for passing on the biggest free agents every year. The last ace they signed was CC in 2009. They passed on Corbin last year. Passed on trading for Sale. Passed on trading for Verlander. Passed on Price, Also, its pretty much consensus the Yankees HAD to sign Cole to get over the hump of needing an ace.

Also, Yankees haven't had the highest payroll in baseball since 2013 ;)

http://www.stevetheump.com/Payrolls.htm

Your whole post sounds like it should've been made 10 years ago. Not now.
Sorry, instead of generalizing, I'll be sure to be specific from now on.  You're right, the Yankess haven't been #1 since 2013.  But, forward since then they've been 2nd (Dodgers), 2nd (Dodgers), 2nd (Dodgers), 2nd (Dodgers), 7th (Red Sox), 3rd (Red Sox).  Now we are straight on how the Yankees don't consistently spend more money than EVERY team in the league, just ALMOST EVERY team in the league year after year.

And just to make sure we're clear, this is a good natured exchange here. I hope nothing I'm posting is coming off as offensive, as I think you are good people and I'm just disagreeing with your point of view.

 
Sorry, instead of generalizing, I'll be sure to be specific from now on.  You're right, the Yankess haven't been #1 since 2013.  But, forward since then they've been 2nd (Dodgers), 2nd (Dodgers), 2nd (Dodgers), 2nd (Dodgers), 7th (Red Sox), 3rd (Red Sox).  Now we are straight on how the Yankees don't consistently spend more money than EVERY team in the league, just ALMOST EVERY team in the league year after year.

And just to make sure we're clear, this is a good natured exchange here. I hope nothing I'm posting is coming off as offensive, as I think you are good people and I'm just disagreeing with your point of view.
No offense taken. It's just sports. I just think you are generalizing a little too much but I understood your overall point. 

 
The Yankees and Dodgers have gone a total of 41 years without winning a championship.  The post-season is a crap shoot, getting there may not be the ultimate goal for teams but it's certainly a sign of a successful campaign.

The key to success in the modern game is to assemble a cast of high-value talent, players who'll outperform their cost.  That path is open to all clubs.  As you've pointed out, big market teams have two major advantages: acquiring key free agents to supplement their core and retaining homegrown talent as it matures.  But that'll only lead to success if the foundation is in place.  There hasn't been a title winning club made up mainly of mercenaries since the 1970s/early 80s; the current rules don't allow it.  Keeping a core intact can be a double-edged sword as well.  Case in point, my Giants have had a failed half decade as a worse, older and more expensive version of their championship teams.

As I've said in other posts, the current playing field isn't truly level.  Richer clubs are better equipped to make a short-term push to the top and maintain their spot for a little longer once they've made it there.  But they still have to beat 29 other clubs by achieving a positive hit rate on hundreds of major and minor decisions.  I think the current system is "fairer" that it used to be.  There will always be asymmetric revenue streams that favor some teams over others but every year, some small market teams put together solid teams with a chance to compete for titles.  Any more dramatic changes to the financial balance of the sport will have to be signed off by 30 billionaires with big egos and be subject to collective bargaining with the MLBPA.

Some will win, some will lose, just as it's been since 1869.  My team is almost certainly going to lose more than they win this season but I still can't wait for Opening Day.
This is obviously slanted due to LA's MUCH longer drought, and obscures the fact that the Yankees have, what, five championships since the Dodgers last had one?

Previously you stated how the fact that 26 of the 30 teams making the playoffs over the last (I don't remember the span) number of years points to the chance every team has of winning.  That also is not totally indicative of reality.  Based on my numbers, every team has made it in the last 20 years.  That sounds good, right?  Look closer, and the details don't show the same balance.  Based on my list posted previously, the bottom 15 market teams have only 71 combined playoff appearances, to 105 of the top 15 teams.  If you break it out by thirds, the trend continues with the top third having 73 appearances, middle third 63, and bottom third only 40.

I would agree that baseball financials are better than they used to be, but they certainly aren't optimal or as balanced as the NFL.  With the NFL salary cap floors, fan bases can't be tortured just because some guy billionaire wants to take it all with them and won't spend money on the team to compete.

 
So I just saw an article talking about how Dusty only got a one year contract, and people are thinking that could mean AJ Hinch could come back next year.  I think Hinch is awesome and I would love to see him back.  But I'm not sure all of Houston would be on board with that. 

 
Based on my list posted previously, the bottom 15 market teams have only 71 combined playoff appearances, to 105 of the top 15 teams.  If you break it out by thirds, the trend continues with the top third having 73 appearances, middle third 63, and bottom third only 40.
I think the original article you posted used some circular logic in ranking the teams.  I recall the Mariners being rated near the bottom when in fact they're a mid-sized TV market with newish stadium, rich ownership and a strong local business environment for boxes and sponsorship deals.  They haven't had on-field success which contributes to poor attendance and feeds your playoff appearances analysis.  But I'd put the blame more on Bavasi and Jack Z's management instead of classifying Seattle as a small market playing against a stacked deck.

I would agree that baseball financials are better than they used to be, but they certainly aren't optimal or as balanced as the NFL.  With the NFL salary cap floors, fan bases can't be tortured just because some guy billionaire wants to take it all with them and won't spend money on the team to compe
I don't follow the NFL as closely as MLB but I don't think there's appreciably greater parity in football.  There's less of a financial gap between the haves and have nots but that's because the  NFL's massive national television deals result in annual revenue sharing payments that are much greater than in baseball.  That's not a model that's portable between sports.

I think a salary floor in baseball would be a positive thing but would be a relatively minor change in the grand scheme of things.

 
I think the original article you posted used some circular logic in ranking the teams.  I recall the Mariners being rated near the bottom when in fact they're a mid-sized TV market with newish stadium, rich ownership and a strong local business environment for boxes and sponsorship deals.  They haven't had on-field success which contributes to poor attendance and feeds your playoff appearances analysis.  But I'd put the blame more on Bavasi and Jack Z's management instead of classifying Seattle as a small market playing against a stacked deck.

I don't follow the NFL as closely as MLB but I don't think there's appreciably greater parity in football.  There's less of a financial gap between the haves and have nots but that's because the  NFL's massive national television deals result in annual revenue sharing payments that are much greater than in baseball.  That's not a model that's portable between sports.

I think a salary floor in baseball would be a positive thing but would be a relatively minor change in the grand scheme of things.
For the first point, again agree that the article isn't perfect, but it is better than strict metro sized ranking or anything else easily available.  For example, Miami is top ten in terms of metro area population, and St. Louis is bottom 10.  Yet regardless of team success, Miami is near the bottom in attendance and St. Louis is near the top.

If you have a better non arbitrary metric, I'd gladly re-rank and see where things shake out.

There should be a way to share revenue in baseball.  It's been a long time since I followed their system closely, but I know the early attempts resulted in the big market teams paying the small market teams to not spend any more money.  That's doesn't make sense of course, and there has to be a better way to do it.

I do think there is more parity in the NFL, but it would all depend on how you are going to measure that parity.  Of course there are still teams like Detroit and Cleveland that historically suffer, but they don't have revenue or market size as an added challenge to their own incompetence.

 
I don't follow the NFL as closely as MLB but I don't think there's appreciably greater parity in football.  There's less of a financial gap between the haves and have nots but that's because the  NFL's massive national television deals result in annual revenue sharing payments that are much greater than in baseball.  That's not a model that's portable between sports.

I think a salary floor in baseball would be a positive thing but would be a relatively minor change in the grand scheme of things.
I think even in leagues where there is an infusion of more money available to players (salary cap goes up or salary floor gets implemented) things have a tendency to shake out wrong. The top tier of talent usually is the one that goes from rich to stupid filthy rotten rich. The second and third tier of players goes from above average talent wise but insanely over paid (to where the top players were getting paid previously). The average players or lunch box worker types generally get paid the same . . . so the majority of the league's players don't see any more money. Also, teams having to burn money to reach a set floor may also way over pay someone just because they have the money and they are obligated to.

In a league like the NBA, a lot of players get adversely impacted by poor timing when other guys got to cash in a couple of years earlier (big jump in salary cap) when they hit free agency and there's no more space under the cap for a lot of teams. So a bunch of guys that likely deserved better contracts have to settle for low dollar, short term deals. With the NBA salary rules (limits on how much you can pay your own free agents), even if a player likes where he signed, if he wanted to stick around, he would have to continue to have to play for peanuts. I am not sure that is the model the NBA had in mind (guys having to play for less and then not being able to stay on the same team for a decent wage).

 
One thing to point out is that MLB still hasn't addressed maybe using technology to allow pitchers and catchers to communicate.  This would fix everything.  I think it was brought up at the onset of this investigation then never spoken of again.  I've heard it talked about less than Voldemort.

 
One thing to point out is that MLB still hasn't addressed maybe using technology to allow pitchers and catchers to communicate.  This would fix everything.  I think it was brought up at the onset of this investigation then never spoken of again.  I've heard it talked about less than Voldemort.
or just use those wrist bands so everyone is just yelling out random strings of numbers all the time.....hahahaha

 
Philadelphia Inquirer did a good article on the 1900 cheatin' Phils.  But my favorite part of the article is where they talked about the Dodgers seemed the most upset by it.  :lol:

 
One thing to point out is that MLB still hasn't addressed maybe using technology to allow pitchers and catchers to communicate.  This would fix everything.  I think it was brought up at the onset of this investigation then never spoken of again.  I've heard it talked about less than Voldemort.
Put trashcans at home plate and on the pitchers mound.  It'll allow pitchers and catchers to communicate and reduce baseball's problem with spitting and snot rockets.

 
TheIronSheik said:
One thing to point out is that MLB still hasn't addressed maybe using technology to allow pitchers and catchers to communicate.  This would fix everything.  I think it was brought up at the onset of this investigation then never spoken of again.  I've heard it talked about less than Voldemort.
The Astros would just hire some guys from the NSA to hack the communications. :shrug:

 
Just heard on the radio per Buster Olney that the Dodgers and Bosox are in deep negotiations to send Mookie and potentially David Price to Chavez Ravine. No mention as to who would be getting shipped to Beantown.

 
Just heard on the radio per Buster Olney that the Dodgers and Bosox are in deep negotiations to send Mookie and potentially David Price to Chavez Ravine. No mention as to who would be getting shipped to Beantown.
Price being included in the deal should infuriate you as a Boston fan and is all you need to know about the argument you were trying to make about Boston having no other choice but to trade Betts. 

 
Price being included in the deal should infuriate you as a Boston fan and is all you need to know about the argument you were trying to make about Boston having no other choice but to trade Betts. 
Not sure why. Price is going to be 35, has been nicked up several times, and Boston still owes him $96 million. Is he worth $32 million a year? Not sure being able to resign Betts is interrelated to moving Price. I wouldn’t cry for Price if they moved on. I guess it would depend on what the plan would be moving forward. 

 
Because including Price in the deal significantly reduces the return for what they could get in a Betts deal. And there’s only one reason for doing so. 

 
Not sure why. Price is going to be 35, has been nicked up several times, and Boston still owes him $96 million. Is he worth $32 million a year? Not sure being able to resign Betts is interrelated to moving Price. I wouldn’t cry for Price if they moved on. I guess it would depend on what the plan would be moving forward. 
Nobody is going to take all that salary for a one year rental of Mookie. 

 
Nobody is going to take all that salary for a one year rental of Mookie. 
But they might take part of Price's contract.  Between that and Mookie's $27M, the Sox would duck under the CBT for a reset.  The return in prospects would also be better now than at the deadline and certainly better than a sandwich draft pick they'd receive in compensation next year. 

Moving him now is probably the smart play for the organization even though it's bad for Boston fans since there's nobody who can step into Mookie's large bowling shoes.  Maybe it'll lead to the redemption of Rusney Castillo, one can only hope.

 
Peter Gammons tweeted several people he spoke to think Betts to the Dodgers is inevitable. He mentioned the pieces being discussed going to Boston would likely be OF Alex Verdugo, IF Jeter Downs, LHP Caleb Ferguson, and perhaps one more prospect. I know very little about those guys, so others please chime in where they are on the prospect spectrum. 

 
Peter Gammons tweeted several people he spoke to think Betts to the Dodgers is inevitable. He mentioned the pieces being discussed going to Boston would likely be OF Alex Verdugo, IF Jeter Downs, LHP Caleb Ferguson, and perhaps one more prospect. I know very little about those guys, so others please chime in where they are on the prospect spectrum. 
Considering Betts has shown no desire to sign long term, I’d consider Verdugo alone as a win for Boston. He’s MLB ready hitting nearly .300 and producing over 3 WAR in just over half a season. 

 
I still don’t understand why the Red Sox, easily one of the 3-4 richest teams in the game aren’t signing their homegrown super stud player. Makes no sense that they are pretending to be a mid-market team. 

 
I still don’t understand why the Red Sox, easily one of the 3-4 richest teams in the game aren’t signing their homegrown super stud player. Makes no sense that they are pretending to be a mid-market team. 
Right?  Was watching IT and Heidi Watney said could you imagine the Yankees trading away one of their best players because his contract was up at the end of the year and they didn't think they'd be able to resign them?  

 
I still don’t understand why the Red Sox, easily one of the 3-4 richest teams in the game aren’t signing their homegrown super stud player. Makes no sense that they are pretending to be a mid-market team. 
If Betts doesn’t like Boston and won’t resign there, what would you do if you were the Red Sox? He was tight with Cora and now Cora is gone. I don’t know what’s going on, but Betts hasn’t exactly gone out of his way to tell people how much he loves the team and the city. His most positive response has been that Boston is ok but business is business. 

 
If Betts doesn’t like Boston and won’t resign there, what would you do if you were the Red Sox? He was tight with Cora and now Cora is gone. I don’t know what’s going on, but Betts hasn’t exactly gone out of his way to tell people how much he loves the team and the city. His most positive response has been that Boston is ok but business is business. 
There’s a reason most teams try and lock up their star players long before their walk year. Maybe if they weren’t trying to short change him with their offers back when Cora was still in good standing, it wouldn’t have gotten to this point and he’d already have a long term deal. 

 
Yeah, it's not like the Red Sox didn't try resigning Betts.  They offered him $300 million ffs.

The team is already up against the luxury tax and are willing to make him a life long player.  If Betts wants to go out and make more, well that's certainly his prerogative and you can't fault a person for doing so. Alternatively, the Red Sox certainly are able to try to move a valuable asset to get a substantial return.  I'm a Red Sox fan, and I think Betts is great. But I'm more than willing to have the team deal him to get a nice return.  

Red Sox had an awesome team in 2011.  On paper.  They just landed Crawford, Gonzalez, and had Ellsbury, Pedroia, JD Drew, Papi, - Very solid rotation with guys in their prime, this team was going to run away with the...wait, this team was mediocre at best came in 3rd and the following year dead last.  Had to have the Dodgers bail them out by taking the anchors of salary they latched on with Crawford and Agone and what happens in 2013, they win the WS.

As a fan, I'd rather have championship than players.  

Mike Trout is an awesome player, a generational type super star.  He has earned every penny he has made and he has ZERO lifetime playoff wins.  As an Angels fan would you rather have Trout or Championships?  Because you have Trout now for a long while.

Nationals couldn't re-sign Bryce Harper,  so what do they do?  They just win a World Series.  I wonder if the NAts fans would rather keep home grown talent or win WS rings.

As a Sox fan would I love to lock up Betts for 10 years at a reasonable cost, sure.  But over the next 10 years, I'd rather win 1-2 championships than have any one player on this team.  That's the economics of baseball.

 
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Yeah, it's not like the Red Sox didn't try resigning Betts.  They offered him $300 million ffs.

The team is already up against the luxury tax and are willing to make him a life long player.  If Betts wants to go out and make more, well that's certainly his prerogative and you can't fault a person for doing so. Alternatively, the Red Sox certainly are able to try to move a valuable asset to get a substantial return.  I'm a Red Sox fan, and I think Betts is great. But I'm more than willing to have the team deal him to get a nice return.  

Red Sox had an awesome team in 2011.  On paper.  They just landed Crawford, Gonzalez, and had Ellsbury, Pedroia, JD Drew, Papi, - Very solid rotation with guys in their prime, this team was going to run away with the...wait, this team was mediocre at best came in 3rd and the following year dead last.  Had to have the Dodgers bail them out by taking the anchors of salary they latched on with Crawford and Agone and what happens in 2013, they win the WS.

As a fan, I'd rather have championship than players.  

Mike Trout is an awesome player, a generational type super star.  He has earned every penny he has made and he has ZERO lifetime playoff wins.  As an Angels fan would you rather have Trout or Championships?  Because you have Trout now for a long while.

Nationals couldn't re-sign Bryce Harper,  so what do they do?  They just win a World Series.  I wonder if the NAts fans would rather keep home grown talent or win WS rings.

As a Sox fan would I love to lock up Betts for 10 years at a reasonable cost, sure.  But over the next 10 years, I'd rather win 1-2 championships than have any one player on this team.  That's the economics of baseball.
That’s not the economics of baseball. That’s the economics your team has chosen. You could still have Betts and win a title, especially with the income the Sox make.
 

The examples of Trout and Harper are anecdotal and don’t work. The Angels haven’t won because they have Trout, they haven’t won because they haven’t developed any quality talent to surround him with. 

Why are Sox fans ok with the owner doing this and pocketing the money? People who are pro-owners getting richer instead of the players will never not be fascinating to me. Who do you think gets the money if Mookie doesn’t? 

 
Why are Sox fans ok with the owner doing this and pocketing the money? People who are pro-owners getting richer instead of the players will never not be fascinating to me. Who do you think gets the money if Mookie doesn’t? 
Why do you think the owner is pocketing the money?  There are tons of other players on the team.

Red Sox already have one of if not the largest payroll in baseball.  I don't think that the owner is really going on the cheap here.

The Trout example absolutely works.  Sure, he cannot play every position and is not the entire team.  But, you need to pay for an entire team and he is getting paid the lions share here so they are unable to field a championship caliber team.  You don't need homegrown talent to win. 

2013 Red Sox had about 3-4 players that came up through their farm system.  Rest of the team was built.

I'm not going to complain one bit about the Red Sox finances, because a) the owner "pocketing this money" has zero impact on me vs. Betts "pocketing that money" and b) they've won multiple championships in my lifetime and this goes a long way towards good will of this fan.

Would I like to have Betts on the team going forward? Sure.  I'd 100x rather win just one more world series in the next 10 years.

I'm not pro-owner, nor pro-player.  I'm pro-team, and as such, I want to win championships.  

 
Yeah, it's not like the Red Sox didn't try resigning Betts.  They offered him $300 million ffs.

The team is already up against the luxury tax and are willing to make him a life long player.  If Betts wants to go out and make more, well that's certainly his prerogative and you can't fault a person for doing so. Alternatively, the Red Sox certainly are able to try to move a valuable asset to get a substantial return.  I'm a Red Sox fan, and I think Betts is great. But I'm more than willing to have the team deal him to get a nice return.  

Red Sox had an awesome team in 2011.  On paper.  They just landed Crawford, Gonzalez, and had Ellsbury, Pedroia, JD Drew, Papi, - Very solid rotation with guys in their prime, this team was going to run away with the...wait, this team was mediocre at best came in 3rd and the following year dead last.  Had to have the Dodgers bail them out by taking the anchors of salary they latched on with Crawford and Agone and what happens in 2013, they win the WS.

As a fan, I'd rather have championship than players.  

Mike Trout is an awesome player, a generational type super star.  He has earned every penny he has made and he has ZERO lifetime playoff wins.  As an Angels fan would you rather have Trout or Championships?  Because you have Trout now for a long while.

Nationals couldn't re-sign Bryce Harper,  so what do they do?  They just win a World Series.  I wonder if the NAts fans would rather keep home grown talent or win WS rings.

As a Sox fan would I love to lock up Betts for 10 years at a reasonable cost, sure.  But over the next 10 years, I'd rather win 1-2 championships than have any one player on this team.  That's the economics of baseball.
This is a good example of what I was talking about before.  If this was happening in almost any other team, it would be seen as the norm.  But in places like Boston, NY and LA, teams are expected to sign players no matter what the cost.  But it doesn't guarantee anything.  And in fact, can actually be bad for the team.  I think moving Betts and getting a decent haul of near-ready prospects will turn out better for the Sox.  Sox fans may hate it in the short term, but that's because they expect management to spend money with reckless abandonment.  

 
Yeah, it's not like the Red Sox didn't try resigning Betts.  They offered him $300 million ffs.

The team is already up against the luxury tax and are willing to make him a life long player.  If Betts wants to go out and make more, well that's certainly his prerogative and you can't fault a person for doing so. Alternatively, the Red Sox certainly are able to try to move a valuable asset to get a substantial return.  I'm a Red Sox fan, and I think Betts is great. But I'm more than willing to have the team deal him to get a nice return.  

Red Sox had an awesome team in 2011.  On paper.  They just landed Crawford, Gonzalez, and had Ellsbury, Pedroia, JD Drew, Papi, - Very solid rotation with guys in their prime, this team was going to run away with the...wait, this team was mediocre at best came in 3rd and the following year dead last.  Had to have the Dodgers bail them out by taking the anchors of salary they latched on with Crawford and Agone and what happens in 2013, they win the WS.

As a fan, I'd rather have championship than players.  

Mike Trout is an awesome player, a generational type super star.  He has earned every penny he has made and he has ZERO lifetime playoff wins.  As an Angels fan would you rather have Trout or Championships?  Because you have Trout now for a long while.

Nationals couldn't re-sign Bryce Harper,  so what do they do?  They just win a World Series.  I wonder if the NAts fans would rather keep home grown talent or win WS rings.

As a Sox fan would I love to lock up Betts for 10 years at a reasonable cost, sure.  But over the next 10 years, I'd rather win 1-2 championships than have any one player on this team.  That's the economics of baseball.
Rendon is the right answer here.   The Nats should have traded Harper in summer of 2018, IMO, because I think they knew the divorce was coming.   They should have kept Rendon last summer because there was a possibility he would stay.

 
I think it was a Buster Olney article, but everyone seems to be piling on the Astros in weird ways.  He said that for the past decade, the Astros have been the team that has ruined the integrity of the game.  From tanking for years to game the draft, to signing Osuna when all other teams spurned the signing of such toxic players.

Wait, what?

First off, when did rebuilding become a bad thing?  Not sure I'd consider that cheating.  And the Osuna thing is ridiculous.  It's not like they picked him up as a free agent because he wasn't on a team.  And what about the Yankees and Cubs trotting out Chapman?  Dude fired off rounds in a domestic case.  But the Astros were the only team signing questionable players?  Come on.  I expect this kind of reporting in politics where we pretend things never happened to support our side.  But this is just stupid in sports.

 
This is a good example of what I was talking about before.  If this was happening in almost any other team, it would be seen as the norm.  But in places like Boston, NY and LA, teams are expected to sign players no matter what the cost.  But it doesn't guarantee anything.  And in fact, can actually be bad for the team.  I think moving Betts and getting a decent haul of near-ready prospects will turn out better for the Sox.  Sox fans may hate it in the short term, but that's because they expect management to spend money with reckless abandonment.  
Earlier in the thread, there were numerous players and contracts the Red Sox had to keep paying that were essentially a bonfire of money going up in flames. Most gigantic contracts are toxic halfway through them and by the end guys are worth maybe 25% of their salaries . . . and the Red Sox have already seen that recently with Sale and Price (in addition to the slew of examples earlier in the thread). Sale at times is electric, but he keeps getting banged up and shut down. Boston still owes him $145 million. Price has had his ups and downs and also has been injured. They still have to shell out $96 million for Price.

Betts isn't exactly Conan the Barbarian size wise. To think that he will continue playing at this level for another 10-12 years is foolish. His speed is going to start diminishing, his range is going to start shrinking, and who knows if he can keep his power numbers up. While we don't know what will happen, if he starts stringing together seasons like he had in 2017, he won't be worth anywhere close to $400+ million. He has done very well so far based on his insane bat speed. What happens if he loses that by a smidge?

And for whomever suggested the Red Sox fans should care that ownership is pocketing our money, what happens in 2027 when Betts is hitting .250 with 12 home runs, 8 steals, and is no longer a great fielder? Can the fans complain that Betts is the one pocketing our money?

The last three seasons, Pujols was below league average and had negative WAR. The Angels paid him $81 million for that level of performance and still owe him $59 million and another $10 million deferred. Cabrera the past three seasons has brought close to nothing to the table for the Tigers. They paid him $88 million over that time and still owe him another $124 million. But I am sure people will argue . . . well, that's different.

So forgive me if I am a fan and I don't want the Red Sox to overpay Mookie by $150-200 million for production he will never get . . . in seasons when he will likely be getting huge checks to be an average (or worse) player. But yet, that makes the RED SOX the stupid ones in this situation? Yeah, sure, as fans we often talk about these giant contracts like they are getting paid out in Monopoly money, but at some point even teams with deep pockets have to evaluate that they keep making dumb financial decisions. Yeah, I get it, it's not really my money they are spending so why should anyone care?

The Red Sox need to take a closer look at the Patriots model. Get the greatest amount of production out of players on their low dollar contracts and let someone else pay them huge dollars for their eventual decline in production. Small market MLB teams have been able to stay relevant by finding talented young guys, gaming the arbitration system, and then letting them walk or trading them for more prospects. Sure, I like Betts, but I would rather not see him in his mid to late 30's as an anchor holding back younger kids and getting a truckload of money to get in the way. But maybe that's just me and my thinking is way off kilter.

 
Why do you think the owner is pocketing the money?  There are tons of other players on the team.

Red Sox already have one of if not the largest payroll in baseball.  I don't think that the owner is really going on the cheap here.

The Trout example absolutely works.  Sure, he cannot play every position and is not the entire team.  But, you need to pay for an entire team and he is getting paid the lions share here so they are unable to field a championship caliber team.  You don't need homegrown talent to win. 

2013 Red Sox had about 3-4 players that came up through their farm system.  Rest of the team was built.

I'm not going to complain one bit about the Red Sox finances, because a) the owner "pocketing this money" has zero impact on me vs. Betts "pocketing that money" and b) they've won multiple championships in my lifetime and this goes a long way towards good will of this fan.

Would I like to have Betts on the team going forward? Sure.  I'd 100x rather win just one more world series in the next 10 years.

I'm not pro-owner, nor pro-player.  I'm pro-team, and as such, I want to win championships.  
The angels had trout on a bargain contract (5M/15/19) for multiple years without doing anything because of poor planning around him. The example absolutely does not work. 

 
The Astros poached James Click from the Rays to be GM. He sounds pretty good. Likes analytics, Yale graduate and the Rays always seem to overachieve with less than others. 

About time to hear some good news about the Astros. 

 
I think it was a Buster Olney article, but everyone seems to be piling on the Astros in weird ways.  He said that for the past decade, the Astros have been the team that has ruined the integrity of the game.  From tanking for years to game the draft, to signing Osuna when all other teams spurned the signing of such toxic players.

Wait, what?

First off, when did rebuilding become a bad thing?  Not sure I'd consider that cheating.  And the Osuna thing is ridiculous.  It's not like they picked him up as a free agent because he wasn't on a team.  And what about the Yankees and Cubs trotting out Chapman?  Dude fired off rounds in a domestic case.  But the Astros were the only team signing questionable players?  Come on.  I expect this kind of reporting in politics where we pretend things never happened to support our side.  But this is just stupid in sports.
I think you are really underestimating the affect the Astro’s handling of the Taubman incident has had on the perception of the organization. I’m not going to lose any sleep over the media criticizing the Astros after they tried to ruin a journalists career for reporting a true story. They’ve earned this. 

 
Betts will just quit and become a professional bowler. Already has a 300 game in PBA competition.
Yes, because the number of pro bowlers making $400 million is huge. There isn’t even a single PBA player that has made $5 million in career earnings. 

 
TheIronSheik said:
Right?  Was watching IT and Heidi Watney said could you imagine the Yankees trading away one of their best players because his contract was up at the end of the year and they didn't think they'd be able to resign them?  
They let Cano go

 
So I guess The Athletic has a new story out....

from a tweet on my time line:

Just to recap — Chris Young tells Gammons he got the Apple Watch sign-stealing idea from when he was with the Yankees, The Athletic story has “multiple sources” saying the Yankees used the video room to decode signs, but no investigation. No reason to look into them. None at all.

 

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