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2020 MLB Spring Training (5 Viewers)

Gally said:
I know this is spitting hairs but the Astros did not cheat.  Sign stealing is not illegal.  Every team steal signs.  It has been happening since the game began.  The Astros broke the rule instituted at the end of 2017 that you cannot use cameras to steal signs in real time.  They are punished for using an illegal method to steal signs...……...not for stealing the signs.  They deserve to be punished because they broke a rule. 

Sign stealing will continue to happen this year, next year, and forever.  All teams will continue to steal signs.  That is not cheating. 
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This is like saying using a corked bat isn't cheating because players are allowed to use bats.

 
Capella said:
Somebody ####ing do something. It’s just baseball they’ve been stretching for 45 minutes. Is a karate match going to break out?
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You should start cheering the stretching.

"Looking good Harper. Hammy's looking awesome. Keep it up, brah."

"Stretch that arm Arietta. Really pull back there."

"Damn, Cutch. You really have some flexibility over there. GET YOU SOME!!"

 
bryhamm said:
I think this is where we disagree.  I think people are the most upset with HOW they went about stealing the signs.
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Every outrage I have read is that the Astros stole signs and damaged the integrity of the game.   Every discussion I have had centers around the sign stealing....the end result.  The outrage is that they gained an advantage so integrity of the game is damaged......however, sign stealing happens by many methods every game and it is not illegal.  The outrage is over the wrong thing.   

 
Tom Hagen said:
This is like saying using a corked bat isn't cheating because players are allowed to use bats.
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Not at all.  Using corked bats are not allowed.  However,  If corked bats were allowed and MLB made a rule that you couldn't use a cordless drill to drill out the bat to insert the cork but you could still use the manual hand drill to do it then it would be the same thing. 

 
Gally said:
Not at all.  Using corked bats are not allowed.  However,  If corked bats were allowed and MLB made a rule that you couldn't use a cordless drill to drill out the bat to insert the cork but you could still use the manual hand drill to do it then it would be the same thing. 
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They broke a written rule in an attempt to gain a competitive advantage.  You can parse words all you like but I will never understand how that is not considered cheating.

 
I would be ok with stripping the 2017 WS from the Astros with one caveat. We go through history and strip every other team that was cheating when they won one as well. We can go ahead and start with the 2009 Yankees. 

 
NREC34 said:
It’s an interesting story to me. 

The Yankee fans so hurt by feeling like they’ve been cheated is great. After all the cheating they’ve done through the years and all the advantages they have over everyone else. 

It’s almost like it kills them when the tables turn. 

Hopefully if buzzers were used it comes out. They’ll have talk radio material for at least a decade. 
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I’m enjoying the Yankee fans butthurt, I’ll give you that

 
Gally said:
Every outrage I have read is that the Astros stole signs and damaged the integrity of the game.   Every discussion I have had centers around the sign stealing....the end result.  The outrage is that they gained an advantage so integrity of the game is damaged......however, sign stealing happens by many methods every game and it is not illegal.  The outrage is over the wrong thing.   
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Then talk to some more enlightened baseball fans.

 
Bull Dozier said:
Then talk to some more enlightened baseball fans.
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I guess I should have clarified a bit.  The enlightened baseball fans I have talked to don't have the outrage.  They think it's no big deal and lets move on.  They understand that sign stealing is not illegal, has been around forever,  and it will continue.   Astros are being punished for breaking a rule.  Time to move on. 

The outrage comes from the people over the sign stealing aspect.  So I should have said that anybody I have talked to that is outraged and thinks this is the most heinous thing ever to happen is about sign stealing....not the method. 

 
Capella said:
Somebody ####ing do something. It’s just baseball they’ve been stretching for 45 minutes. Is a karate match going to break out?
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I think most weekend warriors underestimate how important stretching is for these guys.  I went to the park early a year or so ago and saw Clayton Kershaw stretching almost 2 hours before his first pitch.  NBA guys typically stretch at least an hour every day.  The former Brewer Eric Thames does 90 minutes of yoga every day, and sometimes does back to back 90 minute sessions when he's feeling tight.

 
Gally said:
Not at all.  Using corked bats are not allowed.  However,  If corked bats were allowed and MLB made a rule that you couldn't use a cordless drill to drill out the bat to insert the cork but you could still use the manual hand drill to do it then it would be the same thing. 
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What you’re saying is that hitters using PEDs isn’t cheating because they are swinging a bat to hit a HR, which is legal. 

 
Ghost Rider said:
I’m going to go out on a limb and say that the Astros are only sorry because they got caught. If they had never been caught, they’d probably still be laughing it up about what they got away with. 

That said, I do like the fact that the Yankees were victimized by this. 
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Of course they're only sorry because they got caught.  That's true of 99% of people who apologize for something.

 
CletiusMaximus said:
I think most weekend warriors underestimate how important stretching is for these guys.  I went to the park early a year or so ago and saw Clayton Kershaw stretching almost 2 hours before his first pitch.  NBA guys typically stretch at least an hour every day.  The former Brewer Eric Thames does 90 minutes of yoga every day, and sometimes does back to back 90 minute sessions when he's feeling tight.
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Unless sitting in my couch counts I’m not even a weekend warrior. 

 
Do we think umps will allow teams to throw pitches at the Astros for awhile before they issue warnings? I imagine Houston will lead the majors in HBP’s this season. Just wondering how MLB will deal with it. 

They deserve to catch some fastballs in the back, but when does MLB say “enough”?

 
Gally said:
I get that which is why I said I was splitting hairs.  The big outcry is about "stealing signs".  There is nothing wrong with stealing signs.  That is not the issue and never really has been the issue.  The public is harping on the wrong part of what happened.  Stealing signs is not a problem or against the rules......the method they used was the problem and they are being punished for it.  It is not a game integrity issue.
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The big outcry is they cheated. Im not entirely sure who you are talking to.

 
Gally said:
Every outrage I have read is that the Astros stole signs and damaged the integrity of the game.   Every discussion I have had centers around the sign stealing....the end result.  The outrage is that they gained an advantage so integrity of the game is damaged......however, sign stealing happens by many methods every game and it is not illegal.  The outrage is over the wrong thing.   
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No clue what articles you are reading but you're wrong. Every article I read has focused on garbage cans, video monitors, codebreakers, and buzzers. Essentially using electronic methods to steal or convey stolen signs which is the entire reason they are being called cheaters.

 
shadyridr said:
The big outcry is they cheated. Im not entirely sure who you are talking to.
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You are right.  The Astros did cheat (yes I know I said earlier that they didn't cheat).  I misspoke.....or didn't really convey my point very well.  They cheated by breaking the rule of not using cameras and should be punished.  The end result (knowing the signs) does not change the integrity of the game.  Teams steal signs and that is not illegal.  That is not cheating.  That was the differentiation I was trying to make. 

 
Joe Girardi still very low key about 2017 in a couple of recent interviews. One just on mlb network. 

Why is he not shouting from the rooftops about the unfairness of this? Why is he not filing a lawsuit that states this caused him to lose his job?

Makes no sense to me...

 
Gally said:
You are right.  The Astros did cheat (yes I know I said earlier that they didn't cheat).  I misspoke.....or didn't really convey my point very well.  They cheated by breaking the rule of not using cameras and should be punished.  The end result (knowing the signs) does not change the integrity of the game.  Teams steal signs and that is not illegal.  That is not cheating.  That was the differentiation I was trying to make. 
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Yeah nobody is saying otherwise

 
NREC34 said:
Joe Girardi still very low key about 2017 in a couple of recent interviews. One just on mlb network. 

Why is he not shouting from the rooftops about the unfairness of this? Why is he not filing a lawsuit that states this caused him to lose his job?

Makes no sense to me...
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Hes always been a class act.

 
Trying to picture Sheik if it comes out that Girardi was ordering the same thing as Hinch and both his managers heads end up rolling. 😂

 
Hov34 said:
Be that as it may, what did he say that you disagree with?
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I won't listen to a thing he has to say on any topic ever.  He's a garbage human being who isn't getting a second of my attention and frankly, I'm surprised he's being listened to by anybody who has a wife, sister, mother, etc.

 
The asterisk means nothing to me. 

If you’re doing it for your sake, I get it. Maybe it helps you sleep. Feels warm inside. 

But if you’re doing it for me, :shrug:

 
TheIronSheik said:
Do we think umps will allow teams to throw pitches at the Astros for awhile before they issue warnings? I imagine Houston will lead the majors in HBP’s this season. Just wondering how MLB will deal with it. 

They deserve to catch some fastballs in the back, but when does MLB say “enough”?
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Yep. Houston better be ready to rumble a lot. I bet the league does more suspension days this year than the Astros do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxCd0v3MdUw

 
Cowboysfan8 said:
Good for him

Said Bellinger: "I don't know what human hits a walk-off home run against Aroldis Chapmanto send your team to the World Series and 1) has the thought to say, 'Don't rip my jersey off,' but 2) go into the tunnel, change your shirt and then come out and do your interview. That makes no sense to me."

and yeah, no #### lol
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Exactly.  Leaving in the middle of the celebration to get rid of it, no doubt.  I think the most damning actually, was the way he clutched the upper part of his jersey approaching home plate.  Nobody makes sure to tightly squeeze some obscure area of their jersey when coming home to celebrate a walk-off.  He was making sure that wire wasn't exposed during the melee.

Altuve used to be one of my favorite players.

 
Rodrigo Duterte said:
Exactly.  Leaving in the middle of the celebration to get rid of it, no doubt.  I think the most damning actually, was the way he clutched the upper part of his jersey approaching home plate.  Nobody makes sure to tightly squeeze some obscure area of their jersey when coming home to celebrate a walk-off.  He was making sure that wire wasn't exposed during the melee.

Altuve used to be one of my favorite players.
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At least he tried to hide it.

 
General Malaise said:
At least he tried to hide it.
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That was confetti.  Already proven.

The buzzer thing was a claim with no merit, by a fake account, and has been shot down by the commissioner.  I get it that people want to believe things like this, but this is how conspiracy theorists and cult leaders make gullible people believe things  They find people who are easily persuaded, then they work backwards to create a theory.  Everyone knows Altuve held his shirt closed.  We all saw it.  So what if we make a claim that he did so because he was hiding something?  Seems reasonable.  Now, people who are already upset and looking for possible other faults will latch onto this.  

It's kind of funny.  It really shows how gullible people are when they are upset.  Honestly, politicians should be studying this. :lmao:

 
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