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I'm no math major, but... (1 Viewer)

D

DallasDMac

Footballguy
Wife and I went out to dinner tonight. Had food and drinks. Bill is paid on one of those table-top electronic things that seem popular nowadays. Bill was $63.00 even. Time to tip, it suggests 20%... $14.49. Uh, what? I'm no rocket scientist, but my math skills are pretty good. I'm pretty sure 20% of $63.00 is $12.60. I thought, maybe they figure the tip in to the 20% computation? But that would be $63.00 + $14.49 = $77.49. So no, 20% of that is $15.50. I can't come up with any math that would result in a 20% tip being $14.49 on a $63 bill. What am I missing? The obvious answer would seem to be, they are trying to rip off stupid people. But I don't want to jump to conclusions.

 
Did you use a coupon?  Was anything comped?  Were there any "mistake" entries that were credited back off?

If not, then it sounds like it was simply set to suggest 23% when it says 20%.

 
DallasDMac said:
Wife and I went out to dinner tonight. Had food and drinks. Bill is paid on one of those table-top electronic things that seem popular nowadays. Bill was $63.00 even. Time to tip, it suggests 20%... $14.49. Uh, what? I'm no rocket scientist, but my math skills are pretty good. I'm pretty sure 20% of $63.00 is $12.60. I thought, maybe they figure the tip in to the 20% computation? But that would be $63.00 + $14.49 = $77.49. So no, 20% of that is $15.50. I can't come up with any math that would result in a 20% tip being $14.49 on a $63 bill. What am I missing? The obvious answer would seem to be, they are trying to rip off stupid people. But I don't want to jump to conclusions.
Click to expand...
Strange.  I did the math and 20% seems to be $54.29.  

 
jhib said:
Did you use a coupon?  Was anything comped?  Were there any "mistake" entries that were credited back off?

If not, then it sounds like it was simply set to suggest 23% when it says 20%.
Click to expand...
Ah, this may be it! I did have a coupon that was $10 off one of the entrees. I think we have a winner!

 
I often wonder how often these two things occur in restaurants:

1) Folks use gift cards and then only tip on the remaining balance; or

2) A group splits the check multiple ways.  One or more folks throw in cash, with the remaining balance to be split between credit cards.  And then those paying via credit tip based on the amount charged on their credit card (as opposed to their share of the overall bill), with no additional cash left on the table.

This isn't meant to be a dig on the OP as a $2 swing on the tip isn't going to be a huge deal.  But when a gift card reduces the bill by 50% it can be significant.  I think people are just so accustomed to calculating the tip based on what is charged on their credit card that the above situations have to occur with some degree of frequency.

 
bigbottom said:
I often wonder how often these two things occur in restaurants:

1) Folks use gift cards and then only tip on the remaining balance; or

2) A group splits the check multiple ways.  One or more folks throw in cash, with the remaining balance to be split between credit cards.  And then those paying via credit tip based on the amount charged on their credit card (as opposed to their share of the overall bill), with no additional cash left on the table.

This isn't meant to be a dig on the OP as a $2 swing on the tip isn't going to be a huge deal.  But when a gift card reduces the bill by 50% it can be significant.  I think people are just so accustomed to calculating the tip based on what is charged on their credit card that the above situations have to occur with some degree of frequency.
Click to expand...
While it's been a lifetime ago, I worked may way through college (and before) working in restaurants. I can assure you that #1 happens a lot - same with the OP's "issue" here. Coupons, deals, gift cards, all that - people often just tip based on the final dollar amount after discounts without thinking much about it. 

And splitting up group checks usually ends up being really good or really bad for the server - rarely do people get it "just right". Either people pitch in more than needed and just hand it over and all is great. Other option is people just assume someone else will take care of it and the server gets hosed. 

 
The Iguana said:
While it's been a lifetime ago, I worked may way through college (and before) working in restaurants. I can assure you that #1 happens a lot - same with the OP's "issue" here. Coupons, deals, gift cards, all that - people often just tip based on the final dollar amount after discounts without thinking much about it. 

And splitting up group checks usually ends up being really good or really bad for the server - rarely do people get it "just right". Either people pitch in more than needed and just hand it over and all is great. Other option is people just assume someone else will take care of it and the server gets hosed. 
Click to expand...
This may have changed since I worked as a waiter two decades ago, but splitting checks sucked because we weren't using high tech POS systems.  You usually had to ring in things on a dot matrix style printer with carbon copies that went to the bar and kitchen.  At the end of the meal, the patrons would ask if you could split the check and it took forever to get a manager to void originals and then re-enter everything.  That said, in the places I worked at least, split checks at lunch meant you were getting screwed.  But split checks for dinners usually worked in your favor.  

And for any group of 4 or more that didn't look like a family, you'd ask before you took their order, "Will this be separate checks?"  But by the end of the meal, that was guaranteed to change.  Just like when the group of 20 all wants separate checks, then at the end the one guy says, "I got this. Just go ahead and put it all together."  Great.  Because I've just spent the last two hours neglecting other tables to try and keep track of everyone in your group's drinks and appetizer orders.  

And who can forget the split checks but the people who want to split an appetizer?  Seriously, servers today with their fancy computer POS systems have no idea how good they have it.

GET OFF MY LAWN!!!

 
The Iguana said:
While it's been a lifetime ago, I worked may way through college (and before) working in restaurants. I can assure you that #1 happens a lot - same with the OP's "issue" here. Coupons, deals, gift cards, all that - people often just tip based on the final dollar amount after discounts without thinking much about it. 

And splitting up group checks usually ends up being really good or really bad for the server - rarely do people get it "just right". Either people pitch in more than needed and just hand it over and all is great. Other option is people just assume someone else will take care of it and the server gets hosed. 
Click to expand...
Regarding the latter, I actually had this situation arise recently.  Check was split five ways.  Tip was not included in the bill.  We figured out the total amount including tip and three of the folks threw in cash.  Me and one other guy put down our cards to split the remaining balance after the cash was applied to the bill.  When we got our credit charge back and were filling in the tip amount, he asked me what I was putting down for the tip.  I told him the amount which equated to a 50% tip on the amount charged on my card.  It took me way too long to explain to this guy why a 50% tip amount on the charge was warranted.  He finally got it.

 
DallasDMac said:
Wife and I went out to dinner tonight. Had food and drinks. Bill is paid on one of those table-top electronic things that seem popular nowadays. Bill was $63.00 even. Time to tip, it suggests 20%... $14.49. Uh, what? I'm no rocket scientist, but my math skills are pretty good. I'm pretty sure 20% of $63.00 is $12.60. I thought, maybe they figure the tip in to the 20% computation? But that would be $63.00 + $14.49 = $77.49. So no, 20% of that is $15.50. I can't come up with any math that would result in a 20% tip being $14.49 on a $63 bill. What am I missing? The obvious answer would seem to be, they are trying to rip off stupid people. But I don't want to jump to conclusions.
Click to expand...
Are they adding a tip to the tax?

 
TheIronSheik said:
This may have changed since I worked as a waiter two decades ago, but splitting checks sucked because we weren't using high tech POS systems.  You usually had to ring in things on a dot matrix style printer with carbon copies that went to the bar and kitchen.  At the end of the meal, the patrons would ask if you could split the check and it took forever to get a manager to void originals and then re-enter everything.  That said, in the places I worked at least, split checks at lunch meant you were getting screwed.  But split checks for dinners usually worked in your favor.  

And for any group of 4 or more that didn't look like a family, you'd ask before you took their order, "Will this be separate checks?"  But by the end of the meal, that was guaranteed to change.  Just like when the group of 20 all wants separate checks, then at the end the one guy says, "I got this. Just go ahead and put it all together."  Great.  Because I've just spent the last two hours neglecting other tables to try and keep track of everyone in your group's drinks and appetizer orders.  

And who can forget the split checks but the people who want to split an appetizer?  Seriously, servers today with their fancy computer POS systems have no idea how good they have it.

GET OFF MY LAWN!!!
Click to expand...
It's been over 20 years since I waiter/bartender/etc... first place I worked was totally manual - we added checks up by hand and collected. If you undercharged, you ate it. If you overcharged, they took it from you to keep people from doing it on purpose. I am a math major so it didn't bother me much as it wasn't that hard to do correctly - whether together or separate. But it was kind of nice when they installed a computer system to do it for you. Of course, a number of people hated it because they had found numerous ways to skim off the top and pocket some extra cash and that became harder with a better system in place. 

Last place I worked had a pretty nice system that was all touch screens and pretty easy to split up, even if you had to do it manually - you just brought up the whole ticket and could pretty easily move things around to different checks as needed. 

Actually leveraged that knowledge for a couple computer science classes I had in college - we had to do some system design work for some real world computer system. My group did a bunch of work around software for restaurants. It was a relatively new world world back then. Probably would have been a good idea to take that work and run with to start a company but I had zero motivation to do anything like that. 

 
The Iguana said:
It's been over 20 years since I waiter/bartender/etc... first place I worked was totally manual - we added checks up by hand and collected. If you undercharged, you ate it. If you overcharged, they took it from you to keep people from doing it on purpose. I am a math major so it didn't bother me much as it wasn't that hard to do correctly - whether together or separate. But it was kind of nice when they installed a computer system to do it for you. Of course, a number of people hated it because they had found numerous ways to skim off the top and pocket some extra cash and that became harder with a better system in place. 

Last place I worked had a pretty nice system that was all touch screens and pretty easy to split up, even if you had to do it manually - you just brought up the whole ticket and could pretty easily move things around to different checks as needed. 

Actually leveraged that knowledge for a couple computer science classes I had in college - we had to do some system design work for some real world computer system. My group did a bunch of work around software for restaurants. It was a relatively new world world back then. Probably would have been a good idea to take that work and run with to start a company but I had zero motivation to do anything like that. 
Click to expand...
By the end of my waiting career, we were using those cool POS systems that could split checks easily.

But for most of my career, it was the system where you had to memorize the numbers of the food.  You would enter it all in with no screen other than a calculator looking display.  And before you hit enter, you would stick the ticket in the printer-part of the system.  Once you hit enter, it would dot matrix print out the orders.  At that point, it was locked in the system.  If the table asked for the check to be split, you had to go find a manager who would void that ticket, then you would have to enter in the tickets again, separately.  On top of that, I remember most of the places I worked at looked down on voids.  I guess you that was a way to cheat the system.  So if you had a lot of voids show up, you could be disciplined if they wanted to.  It was all so crazy.

 
Talking about this stuff almost guarantees a "server dream" tonight... 20 years later and I still occasionally will wake up in a sweat from one of those dreams where you have 83 tables and they all want something at the same time!

 
The Iguana said:
Talking about this stuff almost guarantees a "server dream" tonight... 20 years later and I still occasionally will wake up in a sweat from one of those dreams where you have 83 tables and they all want something at the same time!
Click to expand...
:lol:

I was literally just talking about how the server dream is one of my reoccurring dreams I have constantly.  Those jobs scarred me for life. 

 
bigbottom said:
I often wonder how often these two things occur in restaurants:

1) Folks use gift cards and then only tip on the remaining balance; or

2) A group splits the check multiple ways.  One or more folks throw in cash, with the remaining balance to be split between credit cards.  And then those paying via credit tip based on the amount charged on their credit card (as opposed to their share of the overall bill), with no additional cash left on the table.

This isn't meant to be a dig on the OP as a $2 swing on the tip isn't going to be a huge deal.  But when a gift card reduces the bill by 50% it can be significant.  I think people are just so accustomed to calculating the tip based on what is charged on their credit card that the above situations have to occur with some degree of frequency.
Click to expand...
I used a gift card but definitely took that in to account. But totally forgot the coupon. An oversight on my part. Luckily I tipped on the full post-tax amount and tipped over 20%. When it was all said and done, I ended up tipping 19.3% on the pre-coupon, pre-tax bill. While low by FBG standards, I feel ok with it.

p.s. Full disclosure: I used an equation solver to get the pre-coupon, pre-tax amount. As I said, not a math major.

 
Used a gift card at BWW so my final bill was something like $17.  Gave a $12 tip and almost immediately got a "Did you mean to give and unusually large tip?" notification from my credit card company.  I thought that was nice they were looking out for me.

Oh, and nothing says "classy" like whipping out a gift card on a date.  ;)   

 
eoMMan said:
Yeah, you always have to add back the coupon/discount and then recalculate the tip so they don't get shortchanged.
Click to expand...
Agree.

You can also be my MIL who will ask to see the manager and make a massive scene when there is an automatic gratuity added and they tip on the post-tax amount.  Is she right?  Yes.  Do you need to make a massive scene over $1 or $2 when you just got a $300 dinner for a bunch of people?  No.  So embarrassing.  

 
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