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mr fancypants

Yet another shooting - Dayton reported 9 dead

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If reports are true sounds like the bouncer at a bar confronted the dude and knocked him down during the shooting and police then took out the shooter before he went into that bar.

 

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It is time for change.  We won't solve the problem overnight but it's time for assault weapons to be banned.   Now.  Background checks and waiting periods 100 % of the time.   Instead, citizens and leaders will argue and nothing will be done.   It is sickening.  

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Gun nuts who demand absolute freedom regarding gun possession without qualification or restriction violate my freedom, security and happiness.

 

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Tired of reading about this.  Laws have to change, although nothing meaningful will likely come from the change for a long time, still needs to happen.

Gun people, you lost, sorry.  Your guns are doing nothing to prevent this violence from happening and its only causing guns to get into the hands of the wrong people.  Accept it.

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1 hour ago, bcat01 said:

Just announced that one of the dead is the shooter's 22 year old sister.

you wouldn't think that was by chance.

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As if there wasn't already zero reason for anyone to own assault weapons.

Sad how this issue has gotten out of hand, and how quickly these shootings have become normalized without action.

My own personal viewpoint is that I see zero reason for anyone to own a gun. Any gun, whatsoever.

  • You a hunter? Great, I'm not but to each his own. Pack a bow instead, different means to the same end. It's about hunting, not about what you kill the animal with -- right? 
  • You want to protect your home? Get an alarm system and insurance to cover theft -- not much I own in terms of material commercial goods are worth killing or getting myself or my family killed over in a gunfight in my own house. And I doubt the likelihood of me and my family getting raped at gunpoint in my own home is greater than armed burglars just wanting to take some valuables and get out of dodge quickly. Bad people and circumstances exist, no doubt -- some very messed-up people out there, not gonna deny it. But have a hard time believing that statistically, the likelihood and outcome of something truly bad happening to me or my family like that is changed materially by my owning a gun or not.
  • You want to own a gun because of your Second Amendment right to bear arms? To protect this great nation against tyranny? Get over it. It's not the 18th century, and this country is arguably already well down the road of corruption and tyranny in so many white collar ways where guns don't figure into the equation whatsoever. That amendment should be viewed (as it was by SCOTUS for 70 years between the 1940s and 2008) as what it was likely originally intended as -- a collective right of the federal government to not restrict a state's right to defend itself -- NOT an individual right of every overcompensating yokel to arm themselves to the teeth.

I realize my personal viewpoints are just those -- personal viewpoints -- and while many might disagree (some vehemently), I do think overall gun ownership has caused way more harm than good, with these tragic ongoing shootings being just one unfortunate symptom.

We need to start somewhere, and why not with banning all assault weapons. We can argue over my points above, but I don't think there is a credible argument as why someone would absolutely need an assault weapon.  

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2 hours ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

As if there wasn't already zero reason for anyone to own assault weapons.

Sad how this issue has gotten out of hand, and how quickly these shootings have become normalized without action.

My own personal viewpoint is that I see zero reason for anyone to own a gun. Any gun, whatsoever.

  • You a hunter? Great, I'm not but to each his own. Pack a bow instead, different means to the same end. It's about hunting, not about what you kill the animal with -- right? 
  • You want to protect your home? Get an alarm system and insurance to cover theft -- not much I own in terms of material commercial goods are worth killing or getting myself or my family killed over in a gunfight in my own house. And I doubt the likelihood of me and my family getting raped at gunpoint in my own home is greater than armed burglars just wanting to take some valuables and get out of dodge quickly. Bad people and circumstances exist, no doubt -- some very messed-up people out there, not gonna deny it. But have a hard time believing that statistically, the likelihood and outcome of something truly bad happening to me or my family like that is changed materially by my owning a gun or not.
  • You want to own a gun because of your Second Amendment right to bear arms? To protect this great nation against tyranny? Get over it. It's not the 18th century, and this country is arguably already well down the road of corruption and tyranny in so many white collar ways where guns don't figure into the equation whatsoever. That amendment should be viewed (as it was by SCOTUS for 70 years between the 1940s and 2008) as what it was likely originally intended as -- a collective right of the federal government to not restrict a state's right to defend itself -- NOT an individual right of every overcompensating yokel to arm themselves to the teeth.

I realize my personal viewpoints are just those -- personal viewpoints -- and while many might disagree (some vehemently), I do think overall gun ownership has caused way more harm than good, with these tragic ongoing shootings being just one unfortunate symptom.

We need to start somewhere, and why not with banning all assault weapons. We can argue over my points above, but I don't think there is a credible argument as why someone would absolutely need an assault weapon.  

Good post.

I’ll add:

Guns don’t make the home safer. There are many studies which show gun owners are more likely to shoot themselves or loved ones than the bad guys.

2A stipulates a well regulated militia. Even if you believe individuals would have a fighter’s chance against .gov, we need better regulation to control who does/doesn’t get firearms.

I suspect most hunters don’t want to work harder for their prey. 

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9 doesn’t even move the needle these days. 

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12 minutes ago, Otis said:

9 doesn’t even move the needle these days. 

True - Wolf just ran down a bunch of the mass shootings in the past decade, didn't even mention the Borderline 12.  

Need legislators with some guts and the general population to DEMAND action.  Hold your local legislators accountable.  Out those with donations from the NRA or who refuse to vote for outright bans of assault rifles or 100% background checks.

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5 minutes ago, Judge Smails said:

Out those with donations from the NRA or who refuse to vote for outright bans of assault rifles or 100% background checks.

At a local level, I don't know that this will even make a difference.  Without having looked at any stats, the places where these legislators are winning likely have the public support on this issue.

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4 hours ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

As if there wasn't already zero reason for anyone to own assault weapons.

Sad how this issue has gotten out of hand, and how quickly these shootings have become normalized without action.

My own personal viewpoint is that I see zero reason for anyone to own a gun. Any gun, whatsoever.

  • You a hunter? Great, I'm not but to each his own. Pack a bow instead, different means to the same end. It's about hunting, not about what you kill the animal with -- right? 
  • You want to protect your home? Get an alarm system and insurance to cover theft -- not much I own in terms of material commercial goods are worth killing or getting myself or my family killed over in a gunfight in my own house. And I doubt the likelihood of me and my family getting raped at gunpoint in my own home is greater than armed burglars just wanting to take some valuables and get out of dodge quickly. Bad people and circumstances exist, no doubt -- some very messed-up people out there, not gonna deny it. But have a hard time believing that statistically, the likelihood and outcome of something truly bad happening to me or my family like that is changed materially by my owning a gun or not.
  • You want to own a gun because of your Second Amendment right to bear arms? To protect this great nation against tyranny? Get over it. It's not the 18th century, and this country is arguably already well down the road of corruption and tyranny in so many white collar ways where guns don't figure into the equation whatsoever. That amendment should be viewed (as it was by SCOTUS for 70 years between the 1940s and 2008) as what it was likely originally intended as -- a collective right of the federal government to not restrict a state's right to defend itself -- NOT an individual right of every overcompensating yokel to arm themselves to the teeth.

I realize my personal viewpoints are just those -- personal viewpoints -- and while many might disagree (some vehemently), I do think overall gun ownership has caused way more harm than good, with these tragic ongoing shootings being just one unfortunate symptom.

We need to start somewhere, and why not with banning all assault weapons. We can argue over my points above, but I don't think there is a credible argument as why someone would absolutely need an assault weapon.  

Assault weapons are needless. Don’t disagree.

But archery only for deer in PA?  My archery filled freezer wouldn’t suffer, and my hunting would likely exponentially improve but in reality more people would be killed by deer on the roads than by mass shootings. Please think it out before going on a diatribe :lmao:  

 

Edited by JetMaxx
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7 hours ago, bcat01 said:

Just announced that one of the dead is the shooter's 22 year old sister.

Just read that. That's a very bizarre twist to this story.

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10 hours ago, JetMaxx said:

Assault weapons are needless. Don’t disagree.

But archery only for deer in PA?  My archery filled freezer wouldn’t suffer, and my hunting would likely exponentially improve but in reality more people would be killed by deer on the roads than by mass shootings. Please think it out before going on a diatribe :lmao:  

 

I don't want to take guns away from sustenance hunters, but perhaps we can reintroduce apex predators to mitigate the imbalance man has created?

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11 hours ago, JetMaxx said:

Assault weapons are needless. Don’t disagree.

But archery only for deer in PA?  My archery filled freezer wouldn’t suffer, and my hunting would likely exponentially improve but in reality more people would be killed by deer on the roads than by mass shootings. Please think it out before going on a diatribe :lmao:  

 

I don't know a lot about guns, but I think there is a difference between rifles used for hunting and assault rifles with 100 round magazines.

I don't see any reason to ban single-shot hunting rifles.

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1 hour ago, Terminalxylem said:

I don't want to take guns away from sustenance hunters, but perhaps we can reintroduce apex predators to mitigate the imbalance man has created?

There were a couple of apex predators on display this weekend. We don't need any more

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18 hours ago, JetMaxx said:

Assault weapons are needless. Don’t disagree.

But archery only for deer in PA?  My archery filled freezer wouldn’t suffer, and my hunting would likely exponentially improve but in reality more people would be killed by deer on the roads than by mass shootings. Please think it out before going on a diatribe :lmao:  

 

Not sure I see the logic here.

If every hunter switches from firearms to archery, they are still applying for a license to hunt, then hunting (and assuming killing) the same number of deer.

Are you assuming that hunters will be less accurate with a bow than a gun? Or that hunters will get turned off by having to hunt with a bow and stop hunting?

Both would increase deer population, but hard to claim the impact would be the teeming masses you seem to predict -- other factors, such as an increase in predators in areas where deer stock increase, would help mitigate overall stock growth. 

15 people died from hitting a deer in PA in 2017 (the last facts/statistics year I see from PDOT), representing 1% of all car-related fatalities in the state that year. By far and large it's alcohol, speed, distraction, and drowsiness (as well as seat-belt usage) that dominates the driving factors of crash statistics (in PA and elsewhere), not the danger of hitting a deer. A rise in the number of deer-related accidents thanks to more deer in the state would be still likely be a non-factor in crash statistics compared to other dangers.

Having a better control on guns would impact the tens of thousands of gun deaths that occur in the US each year in a way that I think would far outweigh a relatively smaller uptick in deaths related to people hitting more deer on the highway.

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@Stompin' Tom Connors You apparently know nothing about how difficult it is to shoot deer with an archery weapon and the subsequent surge in deer/vehicle related crashes that would ensue under your proposal. Please stop speaking on it as if you can statistically manufacture a reasonable solution to this. As a hunter and hunting gun owner I’m on your side when it comes to assault rifle gun control which is probably as rare as you could possibly imagine but you need to find another solution because this one is rather poor.  

Edited by JetMaxx

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28 minutes ago, JetMaxx said:

@Stompin' Tom Connors You apparently know nothing about how difficult it is to shoot deer with an archery weapon and the subsequent surge in deer/vehicle related crashes that would ensue under your proposal. Please stop speaking on it as if you can statistically manufacture a reasonable solution to this. As a hunter and hunting gun owner I’m on your side when it comes to assault rifle gun control which is probably as rare as you could possibly imagine but you need to find another solution because this one is rather poor.  

Please educate me then. What data do you have to support that changing hunting implements from guns to bows would cause a disastrous surge in car-related deaths related to hitting deer on the road?  

Per the CDC in their study of trends from 1999 to 2014, more people died from gun deaths in Pennsylvania than car-related deaths -- with deer-related car deaths being a tiny fraction (likely around the 1% cited earlier) of those car deaths. 

Tell me again why more deer on the road is more of a threat and an issue than guns in the house?

I see an emotion reaction here, with very little fact.

No one is manufacturing any single solution to the gun crisis in the US, least of all me -- it's a highly charged, multi-layered, complicated issue. I can't claim I know the answers, I only point out that if people weren't so blindly attached to their guns and their "right" to own one in this country, faster and more meaningful change could likely get done.

Would it solve all gun violence or bad things happening to good people at the hands of evil sociopaths? I'm not naive. But there has to be more pervasive efforts -- these mass shootings are way out of hand and way too normalized here. 

An to that end, I will happily take more wildlife in the woods than wild shooters in the streets, given all the risks that both entail.

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32 minutes ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

Please educate me then. What data do you have to support that changing hunting implements from guns to bows would cause a disastrous surge in car-related deaths related to hitting deer on the road?  

Per the CDC in their study of trends from 1999 to 2014, more people died from gun deaths in Pennsylvania than car-related deaths -- with deer-related car deaths being a tiny fraction (likely around the 1% cited earlier) of those car deaths. 

Tell me again why more deer on the road is more of a threat and an issue than guns in the house?

I see an emotion reaction here, with very little fact.

No one is manufacturing any single solution to the gun crisis in the US, least of all me -- it's a highly charged, multi-layered, complicated issue. I can't claim I know the answers, I only point out that if people weren't so blindly attached to their guns and their "right" to own one in this country, faster and more meaningful change could likely get done.

Would it solve all gun violence or bad things happening to good people at the hands of evil sociopaths? I'm not naive. But there has to be more pervasive efforts -- these mass shootings are way out of hand and way too normalized here. 

An to that end, I will happily take more wildlife in the woods than wild shooters in the streets, given all the risks that both entail.

Show stats of how taking guns from hunters would reduce shooting deaths. 

Reduce your emotion, think it out. 

Come up with a solution. 

Venison is delicious, tastes good shot with bow or gun. 😁

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11 hours ago, JetMaxx said:

Show stats of how taking guns from hunters would reduce shooting deaths. 

Reduce your emotion, think it out. 

Come up with a solution. 

Venison is delicious, tastes good shot with bow or gun. 😁

 Switching from hunting to fishing here, I see.

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