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Loomba

Calling Out Footballguys - Stop Patting Yourself on the Back for Nothing

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Long time FootballGuys subscriber here.  I have noticed a very irritating habit that Footballguys has fallen into over the last several years —  which is to take apparent credit when a significant fantasy football announcement occurs and act as if they had predicted what happened or act as if the news comes as absolutely no surprise.  

Over and over again, the Footballguys update comes out with a “this is what we expected” take/analysis when, in fact, Footballguys never provided any advance warning or heads up that something along the lines of the big news might happen.  This approach is condescending/arrogant at best, and negligent/fraudulent at worst.  Subscribers are paying for analysis and a heads up about things that can be predictable or reasonably anticipated.  We want to identify risks associated with players BEFORE something happens, not AFTER.   If you can’t provide that, then say so and act as surprised as the rest of us and stop faking it.

 

The latest example of this was the release of D’Onta Foreman by the Texans.  This was a surprising development in fantasy circles (Footballguys headline referred to the Texans “shaking up” their backfield).   Here is a portion of the FBG announcement:

The Houston Texans waived RB D'Onta Foreman Sunday, Aug. 4.

[ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ FOOTBALLGUYS VIEW ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ]

Foreman's work ethic and habits were at the root of this action. He can run the ball well if he gets back everything he had before his achilles tear, but he wasn't big on special teams or as a pass blocker, and meeting punctuality among other things was also an issue...

 

I have read every Footballguys update over the years, including from this spring/summer (as well as those from other sources) and Foreman wasn’t notorious for work habits or punctuality.  These issues were not being talked about this spring.  Instead, he was considered a great sleeper by many in the fantasy community given Miller’s tenuous hold on the job and Foreman’s apparent recovery from his injury.  

He then gets released and Footballguys rolls out a shopping list of reasons why this happened.  

My question is: WHERE WAS THIS LIST BEFORE THE TEXANS TOOK THIS ACTION?  I want to know about Foreman’s work ethic and bad habits and poor punctuality before a team does anything like this (or chooses not to).  I want to factor this in when choosing between him and another good sleeper.  I want to know about this possible risk.  Telling me about it later is absolutely useless and, frankly, insulting.  

C’mon Footballguys.  You can do better.  I have been a big fan for years.

 

[Full disclosure: I am not a Foreman or Miller owner and I have no interest in either player.  Not a Texans fan either.  This is about Footballguys correcting a bad behaviour.]   Apologies for the long post.

 

 

 

 

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I’m really looking forward to games starting.

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Yeah!

If FBGs can't have embedded spies in each camp so we can know what's going on before it's officially announced...what good are they? :hot::rant:

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10 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

Yeah!

If FBGs can't have embedded spies in each camp so we can know what's going on before it's officially announced...what good are they? :hot::rant:

I mean, it would help.

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3 minutes ago, matuski said:
14 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

Yeah!

If FBGs can't have embedded spies in each camp so we can know what's going on before it's officially announced...what good are they? :hot::rant:

I mean, it would help.

IDK I still haven’t forgiven Cecil for Ronnie Hillman.

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17 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

Yeah!

If FBGs can't have embedded spies in each camp so we can know what's going on before it's officially announced...what good are they? :hot::rant:

Isn't that kind of what the paid subscription is for?  Having insider information to some degree?  The way the statements came off was like it was common knowledge and if that was the case it should have been mentioned somewhere before. 

 

Now expecting FBG to know everything is a little presumptuous however paying for a subscriptions does kind of lead to an expectation that some "insider" information is provided ahead of time for things like this.

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Honestly, this kind of accoutability is needed more often in here.

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Having a FBG subscription is not about nor has it ever been about getting inside information. Why and how would they ever know any more info than what rotoworld knows? It's about taking the information that is known and using their fantasy football knowledge to analyze it and make predictions and suggestions. 

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38 minutes ago, BobbyLayne said:

IDK I still haven’t forgiven Cecil for Ronnie Hillman.

or montee ball

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1 hour ago, Andy Dufresne said:

Yeah!

If FBGs can't have embedded spies in each camp so we can know what's going on before it's officially announced...what good are they? :hot::rant:

Are you telling me the NSA doesn't work with FBG to get us this information? Unacceptable.

 

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8 minutes ago, Ashem said:

Are you telling me the NSA doesn't work with FBG to get us this information? Unacceptable.

 

Maybe they should try teaming up with the Patriots.

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2 hours ago, Loomba said:

 

Foreman's work ethic and habits were at the root of this action. He can run the ball well if he gets back everything he had before his achilles tear, but he wasn't big on special teams or as a pass blocker, and meeting punctuality among other things was also an issue...

See, I didn’t read this as them touting a good prediction at all.  The idea that work ethic and such were involved came out with the news of the release, and I see this as a useful summary of that news.  They aren’t saying “as we all knew...” here.  

They are doing exactly what I go to the news ticker for:  giving me a quick summary of the news so I don’t have to click on the link and read a wole story to get to the one paragraph outlining the new data.

I’d like to see some of your other examples, because I don’t think this one is what you think it is.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, dickey moe said:

Honestly, this kind of accountability is needed more often in here.

There is no accounting for this lack of accountability.

Edited by Leroy Hoard
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43 minutes ago, Arodin said:

See, I didn’t read this as them touting a good prediction at all.  The idea that work ethic and such were involved came out with the news of the release, and I see this as a useful summary of that news.  They aren’t saying “as we all knew...” here.  

They are doing exactly what I go to the news ticker for:  giving me a quick summary of the news so I don’t have to click on the link and read a wole story to get to the one paragraph outlining the new data.

I’d like to see some of your other examples, because I don’t think this one is what you think it is.

Exactly, there was no "as we told you" in there.

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I never take those very seriously. But one gripe I've had over the years is that Joe's a little quick on the "not the player he used to be" quip. I think he just used it for Bell the other day. The dude is 27 and should be fresh after taking off his age 26 season. I don't own him anywhere, so my teams would benefit if Joe is right (what's bad for my opponents is good for me), but wtf was the basis for that quip?? Last I checked, there wasn't a huge drop off from 25 to 27.

Out of curiosity, I found it:

Quote

Jets | Le'Veon Bell draws praise    Thu Aug 1, 12:46 PM

New York Jets RB Le'Veon Bell was praised Thursday, Aug. 1, by head coach Adam Gase. 'LeVeon Bell picks things up so fast...he has done some of the stuff we do in the passing game,' Gase said. 'He looks like a running back...you go thats what a RB is supposed to look like that. He is one of the best, if not the best running back in the league.'

Footballguys view: Bell is not the same back he used to be but Fantasy GMs are excited to see him back in action and are picking him up around the end of the first round. Gase is known for splitting running back duties but Bell can do it all and rarely needs to come off the field. If healthy, Bell should post RB1 numbers for Fantasy GMs in 2019.

 

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55 minutes ago, FF Ninja said:

I never take those very seriously. But one gripe I've had over the years is that Joe's a little quick on the "not the player he used to be" quip. I think he just used it for Bell the other day. The dude is 27 and should be fresh after taking off his age 26 season. I don't own him anywhere, so my teams would benefit if Joe is right (what's bad for my opponents is good for me), but wtf was the basis for that quip?? Last I checked, there wasn't a huge drop off from 25 to 27.

Out of curiosity, I found it:

 

Bell might be the player he used to be.  But I laughed (full disclosure - Steelers season ticket holder) when I found out he was going to the Jets.  I think we're all going to find out just how much an offensive line means to a back - especially to one with his running style.  I wouldn't touch the guy where he's being drafted...

 

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Just now, dbc925 said:

Bell might be the player he used to be.  But I laughed (full disclosure - Steelers season ticket holder) when I found out he was going to the Jets.  I think we're all going to find out just how much an offensive line means to a back - especially to one with his running style.  I wouldn't touch the guy where he's being drafted...

Oh I agree with you, although I'm not opposed to the possibility the Jets improve a lot in Darnold's second year. But if the Jets struggle, so will Bell. I just don't think Bell will struggle because he's not the player he used to be - it'll be because he's not in the system he used to be in.

I don't even read the "our view" part of the e-mail often, but when I do I feel like I see that quip from him a lot and it often seems rather baseless/unwarranted. 

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3 hours ago, Gally said:

Isn't that kind of what the paid subscription is for?  Having insider information to some degree?  The way the statements came off was like it was common knowledge and if that was the case it should have been mentioned somewhere before. 

I take it as they are just reiterating what was reported by Texans beat writers as the reason Foreman was released. 

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As expected,  we have a long time FBGer complaining about FootballGuys.    Just remember that you heard it here first!

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3 hours ago, need2know said:

or montee ball

really wish you hadn't brought him up.  [slump]

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45 minutes ago, dbc925 said:

Bell might be the player he used to be.  But I laughed (full disclosure - Steelers season ticket holder) when I found out he was going to the Jets.  I think we're all going to find out just how much an offensive line means to a back - especially to one with his running style.  I wouldn't touch the guy where he's being drafted...

 

I agree.

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5 hours ago, Loomba said:

[ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ FOOTBALLGUYS VIEW ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ]

Foreman's work ethic and habits were at the root of this action. He can run the ball well if he gets back everything he had before his achilles tear, but he wasn't big on special teams or as a pass blocker, and meeting punctuality among other things was also an issue...

Have you considered the idea that maybe the FBGs didn't know this info until it was reported after Foreman's release?

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27 minutes ago, irishidiot said:

really wish you hadn't brought him up.  [slump]

he killed me that year. drafted him at the back of round one.  what a horrible year

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I thought they cut him because he injured his ligma.

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Posted (edited)

Glad to hear Montee Ball mentioned.  Not because I loved him as a player, but because Montee Ball is an awesome name.

Edited by Leroy Hoard

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Man, I clicked this expecting a few possible things someone would call out FBG on... this nonsense certainty wasn't one of them though. There are definitely some things they do that I find to be slightly annoying over time (primarily on the podcasts though). But I wouldn't say they pat themselves on the back too much, if anything it's the opposite. They pat the entire fantasy writer community on it's back. Not themselves. 

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3 minutes ago, tkrull said:

...or Cody Latimer...

Lets be fair... <insert Broncos offensive player here> and Cecil has told us to draft them. Some were horrible (HIllman, Ball, Latimer etc) and some were amazing (Emmanuel Sanders, Julius Thomas, Phillip Lindsay etc). 

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Subscribers dont pay anything for the daily emails. Those are free. 

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I understand what the OP is saying. I've seen it and thought that it was a little odd as it's the first time I've read that, and I read my daily emails each morning on my daily sit down before my shower... I just dont think its egregious enough to warrant a thread  

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7 hours ago, need2know said:

or montee ball

or any Denver RB. Hes the kiss of death

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37 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

I understand what the OP is saying. I've seen it and thought that it was a little odd as it's the first time I've read that, and I read my daily emails each morning on my daily sit down before my shower... I just dont think its egregious enough to warrant a thread  

I have seen it and heard it lots of places. Just for example, I was listening to the CBS podcast recently and they were going over bust rates for RBs. The host mentioned Ty Montgomery as a 3rd round pick and one the analysts guffawed and seemed shocked that Montgomery was drafted so high. I swear I remember that same analyst hyping him up all summer that year. 

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2 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

I have seen it and heard it lots of places. Just for example, I was listening to the CBS podcast recently and they were going over bust rates for RBs. The host mentioned Ty Montgomery as a 3rd round pick and one the analysts guffawed and seemed shocked that Montgomery was drafted so high. I swear I remember that same analyst hyping him up all summer that year. 

yeah they're not in the business of being right ; they are all in the business if seeming right.

FBG doesnt publish their hit% on PFF I dont believe. 

I dont disagree with any of this, I just find it a little surprising (or maybe i shouldn't!) that this has generatinfnsuch emotion from several people. Dont subscribe then. Or win a free subscription :)

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4 hours ago, Dr. Octopus said:

I take it as they are just reiterating what was reported by Texans beat writers as the reason Foreman was released. 

Exactly as I’d read that update. 

I think someone is reading a little bit too far between the lines on that update. 🤔 

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16 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

I have seen it and heard it lots of places. Just for example, I was listening to the CBS podcast recently and they were going over bust rates for RBs. The host mentioned Ty Montgomery as a 3rd round pick and one the analysts guffawed and seemed shocked that Montgomery was drafted so high. I swear I remember that same analyst hyping him up all summer that year. 

Montgomery was drafted as a WR.

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Can we talk about the "Howdy :insertname:" opening?

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6 hours ago, Engelberg said:

They sound like @DJackson10 wrestling reports

I'm confused by this. I've taken some credit for stuff do to people doubting what I've posted. You're also talking about an industry that has a ton of moving parts and things change by the day if not the hour. Info I get from a source at say 8AM this morning may not be true at this current moment anymore. When gathering info its always take these reports with a grain of salt and trying to sift through what's true or not. I'm not sure what the OP is really going on about. If he's complaining about Posters bragging being right fine it gets annoying however I don't go out of my way to claim anything right. From what I've read here it seems Football guys did exactly what I do. Give a quick summary why something happened and why that decision was made if I know more on the situation I might add that plus my own opinion on what could've done to be better 

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13 hours ago, Dr. Dan said:

I understand what the OP is saying. I've seen it and thought that it was a little odd as it's the first time I've read that, and I read my daily emails each morning on my daily sit down before my shower... I just dont think its egregious enough to warrant a thread  

"my daily sit down" has to be the best description of this act I've ever read.  Just as I previously predicted.

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14 hours ago, eoMMan said:

Can we talk about the "Howdy :insertname:" opening?

I find it rustic and endearing. I want to be eating farm fresh eggs & nana’s country peach jam & toast while I read that email, and this is the next best thing.

us big city folk don’t always get the down-home pleasure of a simple “howdy”, so it’s delightfully folksy for me.

now if you’ll excuse me I have a squirrel stew on the wood-fired stove that requires my attention. 

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1 hour ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

 

now if you’ll excuse me I have a squirrel stew on the wood-fired stove that requires my attention. 

just as I predicted 

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On 8/8/2019 at 9:12 AM, Leroy Hoard said:

There is no accounting for this lack of accountability.

Sure, by your account.

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I love how the overwhelming majority of responses come from people who either didn’t read the post in its entirety or didn’t understand it. Perhaps that is why FBG, and the fantasy industry in general, writes blurbs wherein they “remind” the reader that they have been of this opinion the whole time and knew this was going to happen. I mean, when their audience only reads the headline and every 4th word otherwise, they probably don’t know you’re lying right?

In response to the OP though, not sure this was worth a topic but I agree, fantasy analysts take every opportunity to self stroke when they report. Using hindsight and confirmation bias is big part of garnering credibility and exposure in the industry and it is kind of insufferable if you don’t learn to tune it out

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28 minutes ago, gabes1919 said:

I love how the overwhelming majority of responses come from people who either didn’t read the post in its entirety or didn’t understand it. Perhaps that is why FBG, and the fantasy industry in general, writes blurbs wherein they “remind” the reader that they have been of this opinion the whole time and knew this was going to happen. I mean, when their audience only reads the headline and every 4th word otherwise, they probably don’t know you’re lying right?

In response to the OP though, not sure this was worth a topic but I agree, fantasy analysts take every opportunity to self stroke when they report. Using hindsight and confirmation bias is big part of garnering credibility and exposure in the industry and it is kind of insufferable if you don’t learn to tune it out

I asked the OP without response, so I guess I can ask you, since I must to be amongst the “overwhelming majority of responses.”

Where in the blurb cited by the OP is any suggestion made that FBGs had known about this for a long time, that it had been predicted in advance, or was not a surprise?  Their whole commentary was:

Quote

Footballguys view: Foreman's work ethic and habits were at the root of this action. He can run the ball well if he gets back everything he had before his achilles tear, but he wasn't big on special teams or as a pass blocker, and meeting punctuality among other things was also an issue. He might land somewhere soon with his size/speed combination. The Texans should be in the market for a #2 back via trade or claiming someone at final cuts. Josh Ferguson is set up to be a passing down back and UDFAs Karan Higdon and Damarea Crockett have an outside shot to make the team, along with Buddy Howell a 2018 UDFA who was claimed from Miami and contributes on special teams.

Please highlight for me any indication that the blurb was not merely conveying knowledge gained with the news of Foreman’s suprising release.  I’m not seeing it here.  Granted FBG isn’t immune from touting their successes, but I’m not seeing that (or anything disingenuous) here.

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Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, Arodin said:

I asked the OP without response, so I guess I can ask you, since I must to be amongst the “overwhelming majority of responses.”

Where in the blurb cited by the OP is any suggestion made that FBGs had known about this for a long time, that it had been predicted in advance, or was not a surprise?  Their whole commentary was:

Please highlight for me any indication that the blurb was not merely conveying knowledge gained with the news of Foreman’s suprising release.  I’m not seeing it here.  Granted FBG isn’t immune from touting their successes, but I’m not seeing that (or anything disingenuous) here.

You would not be among those non readers. I thought this blurb was a weird one to use to make the point the OP was trying to make because while I find it frustrating that they talk about Foreman’s work ethic and punctuality as if it is something they have documented extensively (I took a cursory glance at my emails and it seems they didn’t mention this ever), it’s not particularly egregious. I, admittedly, don’t have a better example on hand and don’t have the time at this moment to look for one.

 

EDIT: the non reader comment is more in reference to those people who think the OP is pissy because FBG didn’t give him the information to predict this coming and things of that vein

Edited by gabes1919

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