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Gopher State

Has the Democratic Party lost it focus

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I have always voted Democrat starting with Jimmy Carter.  To me it was about labor unions, farmers and the working class.  Now it seems to be about socialism, open boarders, busing, free college,  and medical insurance free to everyone.  It seems be the party of entitlement.  What ever happen to working to improve your life.  I don’t understand why the socialist  candidates don’t have their own party.  I am amazed that 70 percent of our farmers support Trump.  I agree Trump is bad for America,   However AOC and Omar are  not the Values of the Democratic Party.  Maybe I am out of touch, I don’t want this to be a thead about Trump, but are the Democratics losing touch with America.  I sit back and listen.

Edited by Gopher State
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Since when were the original labor unions not socialist in nature, really? 

I think reading A People's History Of United States along with some other stuff gave me the impression that unionist roots lay in socialism.

Am I mistaken?

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1 minute ago, Lutherman2112 said:

I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat.

Will Rogers

Good posting 

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Just now, rockaction said:

Since when were the original labor unions not socialist in nature, really? 

I think reading A People's History Of United States along with some other stuff gave me the impression that unionist roots lay in socialism.

Am I mistaken?

Good question, have we lost focus of our labor unions, does made in America matter anymore 

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Just now, Gopher State said:

Good question, have we lost focus of our labor unions, does made in America matter anymore 

I think you're missing what I'm saying here...I'm saying that labor unions had socialist roots as organizations. If the Democrats get back to their roots, won't the unionism you praise look more socialist than it does now? 

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Quite a few of my friends have said the same thing as you are stating.

What you went through was the Dems rushing to the center as the GOP went to the right.

I looked at Libertarian (ran for office twice) and then I realized it was just a handful of Libertarian party people and then a cottage industry around a weak party...hell the strongest part of the party was paid for by Republicans. 

Do yourself a favor, and forget the parties.

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Gotta add that Im lucky. I live in a state that the Dems and GOP allow independents like me vote in the primary.

I can choose a dem or goppie primary ballot....or pass that all together and just ask for a non affiliated ballot and vote for whatever municipal or judicial thi vs on th ballot 

Edited by Lutherman2112
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6 minutes ago, rockaction said:

I think you're missing what I'm saying here...I'm saying that labor unions had socialist roots as organizations. If the Democrats get back to their roots, won't the unionism you praise look more socialist than it does now? 

I don’t know how to answer what you are stating, I guess I always felt that unions were a fair wage for hard days work, now it seems like everyone  only cares about is price, build my car in Mexico if it Will save  me a $1000.00.

Edited by Gopher State

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Just now, Gopher State said:

I don’t how to answer what you are stating, I guess I always felt that unions were a fair wage for hard days work, now it seems like everyone  only cares about is price, build my car in Mexico if it Will save  me a $1000.00.

Unions were a fair wage for a hard day's work, but that fair wage was often socialism or socialistic, if I'm not mistaken.

The era you speak of and long for with respect to cars is the golden age of the American automobile, which is gone and likely never coming back. It's an idyllic situation based on circumstances that we won't be seeing again.

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2 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Unions were a fair wage for a hard day's work, but that fair wage was often socialism or socialistic, if I'm not mistaken.

The era you speak of and long for with respect to cars is the golden age of the American automobile, which is gone and likely never coming back. It's an idyllic situation based on circumstances that we won't be seeing again.

Like I say maybe I am out of touch, I miss the Humphrey’s, Carter’s Presidents.

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47 minutes ago, Gopher State said:

I have always voted Democrat starting with Jimmy Carter.  To me it was about labor unions, farmers and the working class.  Now it seems to be about socialism, open boarders, busing, free college,  and medical insurance free to everyone.  It seems be the party of entitlement.  What ever happen to working to improve your life.  I don’t understand why the socialist  candidates don’t have their own party.  I am amazed that 70 percent of our farmers support Trump.  I agree Trump is bad for America,   However AOC and Omar are  not the Values of the Democratic Party.  Maybe I am out of touch, I don’t want this to be a thead about Trump, but are the Democratics losing touch with America.  I sit back and listen.

LOL.  “I’m a Democrat but I do nothing but parrot FoxNews talking points”.

C’mon dude.  

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Socialists need to creep into the Dem party because the 2 party system we have strongarms everybody else out. Being in one of those two parties is the only way to gain the level of exposure (and exposure indirectly leads to more funding) you need to have a chance at the presidency.

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8 minutes ago, tommyGunZ said:

LOL.  “I’m a Democrat but I do nothing but parrot FoxNews talking points”.

C’mon dude.  

He has been running this shtick for over a decade now.  Nobody serious finds it believable 

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13 minutes ago, tommyGunZ said:

LOL.  “I’m a Democrat but I do nothing but parrot FoxNews talking points”.

C’mon dude.  

You don’t know me, but it appears you are a Trump supporter, you can do better dude

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6 minutes ago, Slapdash said:

He has been running this shtick for over a decade now.  Nobody serious finds it believable 

Good trolling 

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1 hour ago, Gopher State said:

 I sit back and listen.

 

Ok.....What about this:

 

1 hour ago, Gopher State said:

Good posting 

 

1 hour ago, Gopher State said:

Good question, have we lost focus of our labor unions, does made in America matter anymore 

 

54 minutes ago, Gopher State said:

I don’t know how to answer what you are stating, I guess I always felt that unions were a fair wage for hard days work, now it seems like everyone  only cares about is price, build my car in Mexico if it Will save  me a $1000.00.

 

47 minutes ago, Gopher State said:

Like I say maybe I am out of touch, I miss the Humphrey’s, Carter’s Presidents.

 

6 minutes ago, Gopher State said:

You don’t know me, but it appears you are a Trump supporter, you can do better dude

 

4 minutes ago, Gopher State said:

Good trolling 

 

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10 hours ago, tommyGunZ said:

,LOL.  “I’m a Democrat but I do nothing but parrot FoxNews talking points”.

C’mon dude.  

If Gopher State is from Minnesota, as seems highly likely, you have to understand that the Democrats there, the DFL, the Democratic Farmers and Laborers are a bit of a different breed of Democrat and always have been,  They are independent and self-reliant holding that last trait quite dear.

 

To understand Minnesotans think of the Northfield raid. The James gang, ex confederate guerillas, hard men who terrorized Missouri and Kansas decide to take a sleepy Minnesota town full of polite and quiet farmers with a bit of a funny Norwegian accent.  They will overwhelm those quite farmers, intimidate them, have their way.  They get there and it becomes evident what they are up to.  Those quiet funny talking folks see what is happening, say "By gosh, there's a thing which is just not right.  Those fellas ought not be doing that."  Then those quiet self-reliant folks take the James gang apart before going to their neighbors to share hot dish, not a hot dish, just hot dish.  They give it no more thought than having pulled weeds the day before but gosh darn those weeds do seem to need pulling more often this year.  

Edited by Ditkaless Wonders
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32 minutes ago, Ditkaless Wonders said:

If Gopher State is from Minnesota, as seems highly likely you have to understand that the Democrats there, the DFL, the Democratic Farmers and Laborers are a bit of a different breed of Democrat and always have been,  They are independent and self-reliant holding that last trait quite dear.

 

To understand Minnesotans think of the Northfield raid. The James gang, ex confederate guerillas, hard men who terrorized Missouri and Kansas decide to take a sleepy Minnesota town full of polite and quiet farmers with a bit of a funny Norwegian accent.  They will overwhelm those quite farmers, intimidate them, have their way.  They get there and it becomes evident what they are up to.  Those quiet funny talking folks see what is happening, say "By gosh, there's a thing which is just not right.  Those fellas ought not be doing that."  Then those quiet self-reliant folks take the James gang apart before going to their neighbors to share hot dish.  They give it no more thought than having pulled weeds the day before but gosh darn those weeds do seem to need pulling more often this year.  

He said in another thread that he's in Wisconsin. Seriously, he said his vote didn't matter, he lived in WI. I asked if this was all shtick. fatguyinalittlecoat said yes. 

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39 minutes ago, rockaction said:

He said in another thread that he's in Wisconsin. Seriously, he said his vote didn't matter, he lived in WI. I asked if this was all shtick. fatguyinalittlecoat said yes. 

Everyone, and thought I meant every one, knows his stuff is all shtick or whatever you want to call it. I'm glad to see not many have taken the bait here, but c'mon.  I know I"ll be sorry to have posted in this thread, but since I know you have good intentions I thought I should throw a lifeline.  Get out while you still can.

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15 minutes ago, krista4 said:

Everyone, and thought I meant every one, knows his stuff is all shtick or whatever you want to call it. I'm glad to see not many have taken the bait here, but c'mon.  I know I"ll be sorry to have posted in this thread, but since I know you have good intentions I thought I should throw a lifeline.  Get out while you still can.

Thanks. I wasn't aware that it was total troll. I usually just ignore this poster, which might be why a brief moment of cogency caused me to respond.

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14 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Thanks. I wasn't aware that it was total troll. I usually just ignore this poster, which might be why a brief moment of cogency caused me to respond.

There could be valid points in the initial post, but unfortunately they're lost in the shtick.

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42 minutes ago, krista4 said:

There could be valid points in the initial post, but unfortunately they're lost in the shtick.

Never considered reading it. Came in hear to see if people called him out. 

Full disclosure, I read the "always voted democrat" nonsense, and was not surprised. 

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7 hours ago, Gopher State said:

I have always voted Democrat starting with Jimmy Carter.  To me it was about labor unions, farmers and the working class.  Now it seems to be about socialism, open boarders, busing, free college,  and medical insurance free to everyone.  It seems be the party of entitlement.  What ever happen to working to improve your life.  I don’t understand why the socialist  candidates don’t have their own party.  I am amazed that 70 percent of our farmers support Trump.  I agree Trump is bad for America,   However AOC and Omar are  not the Values of the Democratic Party.  Maybe I am out of touch, I don’t want this to be a thead about Trump, but are the Democratics losing touch with America.  I sit back and listen.

Is busing really something anyone is concerned with these days? Outside of Bidens voting record as a young congressman years ago is this an issue?

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6 hours ago, BassNBrew said:

He does make a good point.  3 to 5 legitmate parties in this country would be nice.  Would lend itself to more debate of the issues.

Won't happen until you drop the "winner takes all" voting (and I believe a few other measures that benefit the two party system)

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6 hours ago, rockaction said:

He said in another thread that he's in Wisconsin. Seriously, he said his vote didn't matter, he lived in WI. I asked if this was all shtick. fatguyinalittlecoat said yes. 

And I am from Wisconsin, spent time in Minnesota, among other places, and now am in Colorado.  Roots can run deeper than temporary residence.  All that said, the other possibility, of course, is that he is running shtick on us or on himself.

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1 minute ago, Ditkaless Wonders said:

And I am from Wisconsin, spent time in Minnesota, among other places, and now am in Colorado.  Roots can run deeper than temporary residence.  All that said, the other possibility, of course, is that he is running shtick on us or on himself.

Ah, I re-read your quote in full and now realize what you were going for. You were answering the charge that he's no Democrat, it's shtick.

Well, I'm not really sure, but it certainly is a possibility and it was astute of you to notice his nod to gophers and location, something I'd sort of mentally glossed over. 

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9 hours ago, Gopher State said:

I have always voted Democrat starting with Jimmy Carter.  To me it was about labor unions, farmers and the working class.  Now it seems to be about socialism, open boarders, busing, free college,  and medical insurance free to everyone.  It seems be the party of entitlement.  What ever happen to working to improve your life.  I don’t understand why the socialist  candidates don’t have their own party.  I am amazed that 70 percent of our farmers support Trump.  I agree Trump is bad for America,   However AOC and Omar are  not the Values of the Democratic Party.  Maybe I am out of touch, I don’t want this to be a thead about Trump, but are the Democratics losing touch with America.  I sit back and listen.

Here is your problem.   Trump has taken over the Republican party.  If you truly feel that he is bad for America then I have no idea you listen to his crap about Omar and Tlaib being the face of the Democratic party.  They are two freshmen congresswomen who haven't been in office for a year.  I don't agree with a lot of what they say but they have little power and influence in the party. 

Trump makes a big deal of of them because they are women of color and are Muslim, which he knows scares the bejesus out of his followers.  It is what he does best and you have fallen for it.

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59 minutes ago, Godsbrother said:

Here is your problem.   Trump has taken over the Republican party.  If you truly feel that he is bad for America then I have no idea you listen to his crap about Omar and Tlaib being the face of the Democratic party.  They are two freshmen congresswomen who haven't been in office for a year.  I don't agree with a lot of what they say but they have little power and influence in the party. 

Trump makes a big deal of of them because they are women of color and are Muslim, which he knows scares the bejesus out of his followers.  It is what he does best and you have fallen for it.

I find it impossible to fear such a petite and lovely woman.  Of course that is misogynistic in its own right. I mean why couldn't a petite woman be fearsome?

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10 minutes ago, Ditkaless Wonders said:

I find it impossible to fear such a petite and lovely woman.  Of course that is misogynistic in its own right. I mean why couldn't a petite woman be fearsome?

 

My wife is petite, and she scares me sometimes

 

:oldunsure:

Edited by Cowboysfan8
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2 hours ago, Godsbrother said:

Here is your problem.   Trump has taken over the Republican party.  If you truly feel that he is bad for America then I have no idea you listen to his crap about Omar and Tlaib being the face of the Democratic party.  They are two freshmen congresswomen who haven't been in office for a year.  I don't agree with a lot of what they say but they have little power and influence in the party. 

Trump makes a big deal of of them because they are women of color and are Muslim, which he knows scares the bejesus out of his followers.  It is what he does best and you have fallen for it.

I think Trump brings attention to them because more Americans dont care for them. The more they are in the spotlight, the worse the D party looks.

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2 hours ago, Max Power said:

I think Trump brings attention to them because more Americans dont care for them. The more they are in the spotlight, the worse the D party looks.

Agreed.  The question is why do most Trump supporters not care for them more than other Democrats?

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1 minute ago, Godsbrother said:

Agreed.  The question is why do most Trump supporters not care for them more than other Democrats?

Some people are more ridiculous than others.

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9 minutes ago, Godsbrother said:

Agreed.  The question is why do most Trump supporters not care for them more than other Democrats?

Yeah, that's not race. I don't deny the Republicans have a problem with Trump and race, but that does preclude disliking the women in question solely because of their politics.

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14 hours ago, Gopher State said:

I have always voted Democrat starting with Jimmy Carter.  To me it was about labor unions, farmers and the working class.  Now it seems to be about socialism, open boarders, busing, free college,  and medical insurance free to everyone.  It seems be the party of entitlement.  What ever happen to working to improve your life.  I don’t understand why the socialist  candidates don’t have their own party.  I am amazed that 70 percent of our farmers support Trump.  I agree Trump is bad for America,   However AOC and Omar are  not the Values of the Democratic Party.  Maybe I am out of touch, I don’t want this to be a thead about Trump, but are the Democratics losing touch with America.  I sit back and listen.

Why were / are you a Hillary Clinton supporter?  What policies, etc. did you like about her?

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From a bigger perspective, the question posed by the thread hits home. Democrats have a much more difficult time coalescing, or "focusing," on issues than their Republican counterparts. We see GOP voters as laser-focused on low (lowlowlow) taxes, de-regulation of business and tight border controls. If we're wrong about that, let us know. What issues are we Dems focused on? Minority rights, maybe. Abortion, meh. Election reform, ha ha. Health care reform, good god we have 10,000 different ideas about this. 

I guess we're kinda focused on being better than Republicans and that may be a really low bar but it might be enough.

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Just now, roadkill1292 said:

From a bigger perspective, the question posed by the thread hits home. Democrats have a much more difficult time coalescing, or "focusing," on issues than their Republican counterparts. We see GOP voters as laser-focused on low (lowlowlow) taxes, de-regulation of business and tight border controls. If we're wrong about that, let us know. What issues are we Dems focused on? Minority rights, maybe. Abortion, meh. Election reform, ha ha. Health care reform, good god we have 10,000 different ideas about this. 

I guess we're kinda focused on being better than Republicans and that may be a really low bar but it might be enough.

I actually think that Democrats, since the New Left circa 1972 have actually done a good job organizing very disparate groups into coalitions arguing for certain benefits and positive rights. It's the old saw: Democrats always lament their disorganization, but so do Republicans. As far as political messaging, my good friend (yes, anecdotal) has PhD in poli sci from UVA in the field of political messaging. He runs his own company. To hear him tell it, Democrats are twenty to thirty years ahead of Republicans in terms of focused messaging. Dems have done a great job of taking the dispossessed and arguing for rectification of inequalities and/or "civil rights."

Republicans have a low bar to hurdle because they're the party of "No." No you can't have this. No you can't have that right. No. People don't like that. Makes 'em vote for bread and circuses.

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30 minutes ago, roadkill1292 said:

From a bigger perspective, the question posed by the thread hits home. Democrats have a much more difficult time coalescing, or "focusing," on issues than their Republican counterparts. We see GOP voters as laser-focused on low (lowlowlow) taxes, de-regulation of business and tight border controls. If we're wrong about that, let us know. What issues are we Dems focused on? Minority rights, maybe. Abortion, meh. Election reform, ha ha. Health care reform, good god we have 10,000 different ideas about this. 

I guess we're kinda focused on being better than Republicans and that may be a really low bar but it might be enough.

Not a low bar at all when you consider what each are focused on.  IMO one side is focused on issues that are more important to most Americans and the other side is focused on one man, or policies that are either unattainable or too expensive, or doesn't interest most Americans.

Edited by JohnnyU

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15 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

Not a low bar at all when you consider what each are focused on.  IMO one side is focused on issues that are more important to most Americans and the other side is focused on one man, or policies that are either unattainable or too expensive, or doesn't interest most Americans.

I don't understand what you're trying to say. What are the issues that are "more important to most Americans?"

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18 minutes ago, roadkill1292 said:

I don't understand what you're trying to say. What are the issues that are "more important to most Americans?"

Must not be healthcare.

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42 minutes ago, roadkill1292 said:

I don't understand what you're trying to say. What are the issues that are "more important to most Americans?"

The economy, secure borders, low taxes, less regulations, jobs, and there's more ........

Edited by JohnnyU

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8 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

The economy, secure borders, low taxes, less regulations, jobs, and there's more ........

I don't think the facts support your case that these are the most important issues for "most Americans." You've made the mistake before of assuming that issues that resonate strongly with conservatives are equally popular with the majority of voters.

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11 minutes ago, roadkill1292 said:

I don't think the facts support your case that these are the most important issues for "most Americans." You've made the mistake before of assuming that issues that resonate strongly with conservatives are equally popular with the majority of voters.

I'm pretty sure most Americans believe the issues I stated are more important than hating on Trump, Gov't controlled healthcare for all, Green New Deal that is absurdly expensive and unattainable, paying off everyone's school debt, raising taxes, and don't get me started on the social justice politics.  I don't think most Americans have those issues high on their list.

Edited by JohnnyU

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Just now, JohnnyU said:

I'm pretty sure most Americans believe the issues I stated are more important than hating on Trump, Gov't controlled healthcare for all, Green New Deal that is absurdly expensive and unattainable, and don't get me started on the social justice politics.  I don't think most Americans has those issues high on their list.

"The economy, secure borders, low taxes, less regulations, jobs"

"hating on Trump, Gov't controlled healthcare for all, Green New Deal that is absurdly expensive and unattainable, and don't get me started on the social justice politics"

Can you see how your descriptions of what constitutes an issue don't even match?

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8 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

"The economy, secure borders, low taxes, less regulations, jobs"

"hating on Trump, Gov't controlled healthcare for all, Green New Deal that is absurdly expensive and unattainable, and don't get me started on the social justice politics"

Can you see how your descriptions of what constitutes an issue don't even match?

Democrats can't focus on the most important issues because of their hatred for Trump.  That is a fact.  That, and providing for immigrants is more important to the democrats than the economy and well being of American citizens.   They would also rather just reach into my pocket and pay for all these expensive, mind boggling policies the left is pushing.

Edited by JohnnyU

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