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LeSean McCoy

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3 hours ago, GroveDiesel said:

McCoy is like an aging NBA shooting guard. When he was younger, he could create his own shot and explode to the rim. He could put up top level numbers no matter who was around him.

But now he's lost a little juice in his legs and he can't create on his own. He needs the right team and system around him to keep being productive. If he has the right guys around him and is given open space, he can be a productive jump shooter.

The problem last year was both Buffalo's awful O-line AND Shady. Both the O-line and system were not conducive to getting McCoy into open space. But instead of understanding reality and taking what was there, McCoy tried to play hero ball and do it all on his own every time he touched the ball. While Buffalo's other backs would take the little that was there and call it a day, Shady was constantly dancing in the backfield trying to break huge runs. In years past he could get away with that and create huge plays. But that burst and acceleration isn't quite there anymore and he got tackled for losses a TON because of it.

McCoy's ego and mindset won't admit that he's just a jumpshooter now. So he's going to keep being him. In KC, that could work as KC has enough other offensive talent (and scheme) to open up space for McCoy and keep him from doing too much leading to negative plays. I think Buffalo's O-line will be better this year, but I think they also know that Allen and the surrounding talent aren't at a place where they can be at 2nd and 13 or 3rd and 9 and find a lot of success. 

I agree with a lot of the above.  McCoy is definitely on the back side of his career but  the dynamic kc offense could breath some life into him this year. 

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I thought about trading for him but not sure what he is worth?  Any thoughts on his comparable value at this time?

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5 hours ago, Arodin said:

Truth seems to be subjective, as I have memories of:

Ware-Hunt, Knile Davis-Charles, Buckhalter-Westbrook and D. Lewis-McCoy.

Or were those just fever-dreams?

If your point is that other RB's received touches when Reid had an unquestioned featured back that got most of the touches, then...okay.  Using that standard, every coach in the history of the NFL has done the same thing. 

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47 minutes ago, stlrams said:

I agree with a lot of the above.  McCoy is definitely on the back side of his career but  the dynamic kc offense could breath some life into him this year. 

Got Shady as my RB4 in my draft earlier in today. I have no idea what his role is going to be in KC but he is worth a roll of the dice.  

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I'm not really expecting much (especially if he doesn't get many goal line carries) but for where I drafted him, I'l take the wildcard.  

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Just picked up McCoy at 7.10 in a 12-team league. I'm fine with late seventh round for that. I'm almost giddy. 

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59 minutes ago, az_prof said:

I thought about trading for him but not sure what he is worth?  Any thoughts on his comparable value at this time?

Stephen Davis in Carolina 

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4 minutes ago, Smack Tripper said:

Stephen Davis in Carolina 

That's high praise. 

His first year in Carolina he had over 1400 yds and 8 tds

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McCoy has a lot more left in the tank than most are giving him credit for. He was a beast two years ago. Last year he had limited touches on a pathetic team. I guarantee that NFL coaches are smart enough to know that. Which is why he got so much interest and was signed so fast. Do you think McCoy... as proud as he is... signed on so fast with a team to he a backup? You don't think that he talked to Reid and made sure that he would have the kind of role that he wants?

Edited by WiDDoW_MaKeR

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2 hours ago, rockaction said:

Just picked up McCoy at 7.10 in a 12-team league. I'm fine with late seventh round for that. I'm almost giddy. 

Seems like fair value. 

What other RBs were available there? 

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32 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Seems like fair value. 

What other RBs were available there? 

Very few. All the standards had been picked over, meaning Sanders and Montgomery and the like were all gone, IIRC. Maybe not. Singletary went 7.12. Rashaad Penny was left. Royce Freeman was hangin' (I took him later). Derrius Guice could still say hello. ADP was there until eleven, as was Darrell Henderson. But any guy winning a battle in camp was gone.

Singletary was as questionable as it got. I think I could have taken him and then McCoy, so I'll be on the lookout for that next time. But Breida was gone, etc. Damien Williams went 3.9 and I took Darwin Thompson later at 12.3, just because (it's not my main league).

Of note: Gurley went 2.11, preceded by a bunch, and most good backs went early even in a 3 WR and W/R/T flex league.

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This situation kind of reminds me of AP last year.  Many were arguing he was done and would have no value but elite veterans can sometimes will themselves when desired.  McCoy is an excellent RB and is a pro...his knowledge and experience is far superior to any RB on the roster.  There’s certainly risk in taking him in the mid rounds but if he hits he can be an RB1 that can help win your league like Williams did for me last year.

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Got in on him super late in an IDP redraft.  Excited to see what happens and thinking he will have a very solid role here. Tagging to follow this season 

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11 hours ago, elmanx said:

That's high praise. 

His first year in Carolina he had over 1400 yds and 8 tds

Hmmm... I could see 1400 total(not strictly ground yards) and I don't see why the 8 Tds isn't in reach within this offense 

Edited by Smack Tripper

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11 hours ago, WiDDoW_MaKeR said:

McCoy has a lot more left in the tank than most are giving him credit for. He was a beast two years ago. Last year he had limited touches on a pathetic team. I guarantee that NFL coaches are smart enough to know that. Which is why he got so much interest and was signed so fast. Do you think McCoy... as proud as he is... signed on so fast with a team to he a backup? You don't think that he talked to Reid and made sure that he would have the kind of role that he wants?

He was far from "a beast" two years ago (that was the year before). He's clearly on the decline, and I think a big factor into his signing with KC is to finally play for a contender and try and win a title. I think he'd be perfectly happy with less than a workhorse role, he may even prefer it- I doubt he'd be able to make it through a full season (including post-season) if he's getting 20 touches per game.

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Just took him at 1.01 in a redraft and I am honestly surprised he was still there at the first pick in the draft. Dude reminds me of Curtin Martin 2004.

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2 minutes ago, Mario Kart said:

Just took him at 1.01 in a redraft and I am honestly surprised he was still there at the first pick in the draft. Dude reminds me of Curtin Martin 2004.

I too am shocked to see how long he lasted. Outstanding value. :pickle:

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21 hours ago, Banger said:

This situation screams to me that McCoy will be the man.  Williams is JAG...McCoy had great success with Reid and nearly immediately after being cut KC swoops in with a decent/good contract and takes him off the market.  If he languished for a while and interest was tepid I’d likely have a different opinion but they wanted him and paid him.  McCoy wont be a 20-25 touch guy but he won’t need to be in that offense to have really good value.  I just wish I would’ve known this info when I was drafting last night.

Agreed.  I spent 101/180 on him.  He was dropped after being cut.  

Edited by SCT

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13 hours ago, WiDDoW_MaKeR said:

McCoy has a lot more left in the tank than most are giving him credit for. He was a beast two years ago. Last year he had limited touches on a pathetic team. I guarantee that NFL coaches are smart enough to know that. Which is why he got so much interest and was signed so fast. Do you think McCoy... as proud as he is... signed on so fast with a team to he a backup? You don't think that he talked to Reid and made sure that he would have the kind of role that he wants?

 He was not in a position to make demands, I sincerely doubt many teams were beating down his door. A reunion with Reid made sense to him and his agent probably told him to jp on the offer as there was no guarantee another one would materialize.

Let's remember, he did lose the Buffalo RB competition to Frank Gore. No shame in that but also not something to hang your hat in either.

 

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Three years ago he was more efficient and scored a ton of TDs. Two years ago he was productive on volume but TDs (predictably) saw negative regression. Last year, age 30 season,  he was a trash bag.

2016 284 touches 5.7 per 1623 YFS 14 TDs

2017 346 4.6 1586 8

2018 195 3.9 752 3
 

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6 minutes ago, Chaka said:

 He was not in a position to make demands, I sincerely doubt many teams were beating down his door. A reunion with Reid made sense to him and his agent probably told him to jp on the offer as there was no guarantee another one would materialize.

Let's remember, he did lose the Buffalo RB competition to Frank Gore. No shame in that but also not something to hang your hat in either.

 

Does buffalo have to pay gore 9.05 mill this year?   If so you make a good point if instead they pay him like say 20% of that then I’d say that’s a bigger factor in McCoy being let go.  

Edited by SCT
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I see McCoy's role in KC as primary backup and "In case of emergency, break glass". I seriously doubt he is a threat to Damien Williams at this point.

There was no indication all off-season that KC was worried about Damien Williams as the primary back and there had been rumors about Hyde not making the team for at least a couple weeks before he got traded. So grabbing McCoy hardly feels like a desperation move by Reid.

It would make complete sense that Reid suspected, or knew, McCoy would get cut (Shady may have told him as much) which made getting rid of Hyde easier but I think talk of McCoy coming into a lead back role is premature at best.

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5 minutes ago, Chaka said:

 He was not in a position to make demands, I sincerely doubt many teams were beating down his door. A reunion with Reid made sense to him and his agent probably told him to jp on the offer as there was no guarantee another one would materialize.

Let's remember, he did lose the Buffalo RB competition to Frank Gore. No shame in that but also not something to hang your hat in either.

There were immediately four good teams very interested in him. NE, SD, PHI, and KC were all immediately up on him. This was a BUF salary dump. I don't think he got beat out by Gore, though that's open for debate.

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3 minutes ago, SCT said:

Does buffalo have to pay gore 9.05 mill this year?   If so you make a good point if instead they pay him like say 10% of that then I’d say that’s a bigger factor in McCoy being let go.  

I don't know the value of Gore's contract. Certainly less than $9.05 mil.

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1 minute ago, Chaka said:

I see McCoy's role in KC as primary backup and "In case of emergency, break glass". I seriously doubt he is a threat to Damien Williams at this point.

There was no indication all off-season that KC was worried about Damien Williams as the primary back and there had been rumors about Hyde not making the team for at least a couple weeks before he got traded. So grabbing McCoy hardly feels like a desperation move by Reid.

It would make complete sense that Reid suspected, or knew, McCoy would get cut (Shady may have told him as much) which made getting rid of Hyde easier but I think talk of McCoy coming into a lead back role is premature at best.

I now have both so I hope one is the primary back there.

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Just now, rockaction said:

There were immediately four good teams very interested in him. NE, SD, PHI, and KC were all immediately up on him. This was a BUF salary dump. I don't think he got beat out by Gore, though that's open for debate.

Allegedly.

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Just now, Chaka said:

I don't know the value of Gore's contract. Certainly less than $9.05 mil.

2

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2 minutes ago, BobbyLayne said:

2016 284 touches 5.7 per 1623 YFS 14 TDs

2017 346 4.6 1586 8

2018 195 3.9 752 3
 

A lot of chatter about blaming the bills, which may be fair.

but looking at this one could also identify a trend. And not a positive one. 

Also, not an unfamiliar one among RBs over 30.

not saying this will happen to McCoy, I’m just sayin. It appears to be a trend. 

That said, I wouldn’t be shocked by a bounce, with the caveat that a timeshare will both help & hurt his numbers.

were i a betting man, I’d guess his touches would drop, his per carry average would increase back over 4.2 YPC & his TDS would be somewhere in the middle (~7) 

throw in ~25 receptions & he’s a solid RB2/Flex play & a bargain where folks drafted him. 

And that would still leave plenty of room for DWill to “get his” given good health. 

IMO this could well be a very productive tandem. Chiefs offense will be very productive & generate a ton of touches to go around. 

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Fun fact.  Shady getting twice as much guaranteed money than Williams.  

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We drafted 72 RBs 8 days ago, Hyde got dropped for Demaryius Thomas (IDK Y) on Tuesday. Cleared waivers Thursday. Dare got picked up, Darrell Williams, Boykin, Jalen Richard my goodness someone even added GRONK. About a half hour ago somebody dropped Harry (IR) and finally picked up Hyde for free. Four days as a no cost FA, everyone passed.

Last night a Halal truck dropped a lamb on Atlantic Avenue. Probably 50 cars ran over the carcass. Wool everywhere, you could smell the stench two blocks away. Dept of Sanitation finally came along this morning to scoop it up.

Same, same.

Edited by BobbyLayne
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6 minutes ago, SCT said:

Fun fact.  Shady getting twice as much guaranteed money than Williams.  

That is kind of interesting but McCoy is a 10 year veteran with a minimum salary requirement of just over $1mil/year. As a 5th year vet I think Williams's minimum salary requirement is just over $800k, not a huge difference but still.

More relevant, IMO, wasn't Williams originally a UDFA, who then signed with KC when Hunt/Ware were the lead backs in 2018?

It would have been a more interesting contract comparison if Williams were a free agent this off-season. 

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1 minute ago, Chaka said:

That is kind of interesting but McCoy is a 10 year veteran with a minimum salary requirement of just over $1mil/year. As a 5th year vet I think Williams's minimum salary requirement is just over $800k, not a huge difference but still.

More relevant, IMO, wasn't Williams originally a UDFA, who then signed with KC when Hunt/Ware were the lead backs in 2018?

It would have been a more interesting contract comparison if Williams were a free agent this off-season. 

Williams was in Miami for about four years following his UDFA status. He signed with the Chiefs while Hunt and Ware are there, you are correct, but it wasn't straight out of college. (I do not know how UDFA pay structures work.)

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27 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Williams was in Miami for about four years following his UDFA status. He signed with the Chiefs while Hunt and Ware are there, you are correct, but it wasn't straight out of college. (I do not know how UDFA pay structures work.)

Yeah, I know that. My phrasing was a little unclear. 

The only point is I don't think it's quite fair to compare contracts unless the Chiefs had signed Williams this off-season instead of 2018 when they had a very inexpensive Pro-Bowl RB already on the roster.

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Not sure why not posted yet, but...

Team Report:  Chiefs RBs LeSean McCoy and Damien Williams will split carries out of the backfield, per HC Andy Reid. When asked about the running back rotation, Reid said he considers both McCoy and Williams as starters.

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Just now, Deamon said:

Not sure why not posted yet, but...

Team Report:  Chiefs RBs LeSean McCoy and Damien Williams will split carries out of the backfield, per HC Andy Reid. When asked about the running back rotation, Reid said he considers both McCoy and Williams as starters.

It was posted in one of the three or four threads about this.

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2 minutes ago, Chaka said:

Yeah, I know that. My phrasing was a little unclear. 

The only point is I don't think it's quite fair to compare contracts unless the Chiefs had signed Williams this off-season instead of 2018 when they had a very inexpensive Pro-Bowl RB already on the roster.

Yeah, but I thought WIlliams just re-did his deal.  He did. Just signed an extension in Dec.

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5 minutes ago, LawFitz said:

Basically states they have two guys that can start.

Lesean will need to learn the playbook and protections, also mentions he’s a sharp kid and thinks he can. (Smirk)

When asked if he’d play against Jacksonville he stated “we’ll see”

 

Is his mustache crooked or was that just a weird angle?

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I'm targeting for sure.  He's 31 and essentially a forgotten commodity in the wasteland that is Buffalo......In KC, he'll have room to run.  And he's still got better vision, agility, and lateral quickness than most backs in the league.  The risk is he's old, he's lost top end speed, with a lot of miles.  So he could fall off a cliff sooner than later.....I'm betting just being on a legit contender will invigorate him to be a considerable part of it.

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1 hour ago, SCT said:

Fun fact.  Shady getting twice as much guaranteed money than Williams.  

Agreed. This is the most salient fact in the whole discussion.

Doesn't mean McCoy is instantly a game one starter...but I'm following the money on who will emerge.

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26 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Yeah, but I thought WIlliams just re-did his deal.  He did. Just signed an extension in Dec.

Yes for half as much guaranteed as shady.  

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Just now, PhantomJB said:

Agreed. This is the most salient fact in the whole discussion.

Doesn't mean McCoy is instantly a game one starter...but I'm following the money on who will emerge.

I was making this argument but have really backed off on it. The contracts were signed by different guys, at different times of the year, with much differing expectations about their value to a team. It's quite possible that the Chiefs needed to pay McCoy that much to keep him away from other teams also under the cap. But even though I was a bit taken aback by the monetary difference, it all makes total sense and doesn't really have bearing on who will assume the lead role.

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2 minutes ago, rockaction said:

I was making this argument but have really backed off on it. The contracts were signed by different guys, at different times of the year, with much differing expectations about their value to a team. It's quite possible that the Chiefs needed to pay McCoy that much to keep him away from other teams also under the cap. But even though I was a bit taken aback by the monetary difference, it all makes total sense and doesn't really have bearing on who will assume the lead role.

That's cool. It's not conclusive evidence by any means...but IMO it outweighs all the speculative analysis. 

I take it as confirmation that when Reid did his due diligence before writing the check he came away thinking Shady still has quite a bit left in the tank...I don't see Reid messing around with an RBBC for too long if that is the case. Just enough to get him up to speed.

At this point we all need to make decisions based on imperfect information...but three million non-refundable American dollars has a much higher signal-to-noise ratio that anything else at this stage.

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I apologize if this has already posted this (I didn't see it) but supposedly the Chiefs outbid the Chargers for McCoy's services. https://sports.yahoo.com/source-le-sean-mc-coy-chiefs-agree-to-1-year-deal-042546541.html (Scroll down to see offer)

Whether or not he works out for the Chiefs it was a good move keeping him away from a division rival (rockaction hinted at this).  I think this also shows where the Chargers stand in the Melvin Gordon contract negotiations. I really don't expect much from LeSean but if it does I will admit I was wrong about him being washed up. 

Edited by yoman
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5 minutes ago, yoman said:

I apologize if this has already posted this (I didn't see it) but supposedly the Chiefs outbid the Chargers for McCoy's services. https://sports.yahoo.com/source-le-sean-mc-coy-chiefs-agree-to-1-year-deal-042546541.html (Scroll down to see offer)

Whether or not he works out for the Chiefs it was a good move keeping him away from a division rival (rockaction hinted at this).  I think this also shows where the Chargers stand in the Melvin Gordon contract negotiations. I really don't expect much from LeSean but if it does I will admit I was wrong about him being washed up. 

This is an interesting take...but from a logical perspective why would the Chiefs care about the Chargers getting Shady if they thought he was washed up?

Wouldn't Andy Reid, being the guy who coached McCoy for four years, be in a much better position to evaluate what he was seeing on tape vs. any of the Chargers' staff?

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5 minutes ago, PhantomJB said:

This is an interesting take...but from a logical perspective why would the Chiefs care about the Chargers getting Shady if they thought he was washed up?

Wouldn't Andy Reid, being the guy who coached McCoy for four years, be in a much better position to evaluate what he was seeing on tape vs. any of the Chargers' staff?

I mean washed up as an every down back. I think he can add a little value as a savvy veteran and will be used more in passing situations.  As I said in my initial post maybe a change of scenery will help and the offense is obviously a million times better than the Bills. If he were in such high demand don't you think the Bills could have traded him for even a late round draft pick?

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