pinkham13
Footballguy
But they don’t celebrate diversity they use at as a tool of division.They absolutely hate Trump conservatives and Christians. That’s not inclusive at all. They hate half the nation.
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
Article: Majority of Voters in Both Parties are Religious, Study Finds (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Joe Bryant
- Start date
zoonation
Footballguy
I'm with you on the religion thing.Sheriff Sho liked this postcall him out. You won’t. Religion is something Republicans have, Democrats have, young, old etc. Some don’t. Who cares about beliefs like that. Accept each other.
Also, your obsession with Sho is truly bizarre.
pinkham13
Footballguy
Heartbeat is how we legally define a person as being dead or alive. So when a fetus has a heartbeat it has a soul. Glad you weren’t aborted my friend.
zoonation
Footballguy
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
pinkham13
Footballguy
Unless you know a person you shouldn’t generalize. Just because someone voted for Trump doesn’t make them a hypocrite or even a Trumper. They may just really not like Hillary and saw the carnival barker as the lesser evil.
pinkham13
Footballguy
We’re at 28 million for the year so far. Doesn’t seem to be reducing in any way whatsoever.
John Blutarsky
Footballguy
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
We have had 40 years of Reagan brand conservatism. We have not had liberal policies. And when liberals make a tiny dent such as the ACA requiring insurance to cover contraception (an obvious means to lower abortion rates) it is fought tooth and nail by conservative Christian groups. So the idea that liberalism has failed to lower abortion rates in the US is ridiculous as the liberals have not been able to implement such policies.
pinkham13
Footballguy
What? Liberals love abortion so much they think it’s women’s health care when it’s just baby killing for convenience. 28 million dead since 01/01/2019.
Instead of buying a pack of condoms or not having sex people just do whatever and face the consequences by killing a tiny soul.
Conservatives don’t want government healthcare at all. Much less to pay for someone’s condoms.They wanted to keep their Dr. and couldn’t. Dems don’t want less abortions ever it has nothing to do with conservatives fighting condom use.
Last edited by a moderator:
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
Conservatives hold most of government in this country. Hold all but the House at the federal level, and they just lost the House. Hold most state governments. Yet it is the failure of the non existent liberal policies that have abortion rates what they are?
We get it. Conservatives (forgive the broad brush) want to "wash their hands" of the shortcomings of others and do nothing more than impose bans while opposing policies that have actual demonstrable success in reducing abortions. Honest sex education. Contraception. Strong safety nets. Etc. It always amazes me that those so passionate about this single topic such that it dominates all others refuse to consider policies that would make a difference. Kind of like those in the gun threads arguing that liberals want to do nothing about the underlying violence.
Van Dyman
Footballguy
Wrong on both of the bolded. And I don't think most conservatives and/or Republicans believe that. Maybe a few extremists on the fringe, but not most. No idea if you believe it or you're just saying it to get a response.
pinkham13
Footballguy
Give me a break. This response is a total nothing burger. Liberals love planned parenthood and totally support abortions. Several states have passed legislation recently to stop killing babies with heartbeats with zero support from liberals only obstruction.
pinkham13
Footballguy
When you see liberal leaders celebrating and legalizing infanticide as woman’s rights it’s hard to see where liberals are protesting this. If you aren’t aware of this you should look into it before you vote
Herb
Footballguy
Agreed. But then with regard to liberals, which you clearly are not, you said...
Boss I dont know you or whether you're new here or whatever, but you are going to get called out on this sort of stuff. Practice what you preach.
Saying liberals hate Christians is... I'll just say false so I dont get in trouble.
Van Dyman
Footballguy
Just like saying you do NOT believe in any god does NOT mean you have never read the bible, and does NOT mean that you live life in a way that is morally inferior to your religious peers.
pinkham13
Footballguy
There certainly does seem to be a huge push by liberals against Christians. It is well known that Christians think LGBTQ is an abomination as it says in the Bible. Christians also abhor killing babies. CNN is nothing but a conservative hate show. I do apologize for generalizing. Obviously some democrats hate abortion and disagree with the LGBTQ agenda but it’s a small minority for sure.
Van Dyman
Footballguy
Pretty sure we disagree on what constitutes infanticide. However, even if I agreed with you 100%, that one issue isn't the most important issue to consider when voting. The people we elect will have to manage all kinds of different problems and are unlikely to make much headway on this particular issue. I would not let one single issue that is unlikely to be resolved be the driving force behind my vote. And I hope that you don't either. Single-issue voting is a dereliction of civic duty, imo.
pinkham13
Footballguy
Well unfortunately I have grown to dislike both sides of the aisle. Bush was a disaster and Obama was just as bad. Trump is a clown show and Hillary is wicked witch. I won’t be voting either of these parties. I think ultimately they push the same military goals and just keep us divided.
Van Dyman
Footballguy
I asked whether you agree that Republicans as a group underestimate how religious Dems are.
You answered as if I'd asked "Do both sides demonize each other and, if so, what are the topics of that demonization".
Why did you do that?
Last edited by a moderator:
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Regarding abortion, 20% of white, evangelical Protestants believe abortion should be legal. 64% of black Protestants. 56% of Catholics. https://www.pewforum.org/fact-sheet/public-opinion-on-abortion/
Regarding gay marriage, 29% of white, evangelical support it. 44% of black Protestants. 61% of Catholics. https://www.pewforum.org/fact-sheet/changing-attitudes-on-gay-marriage/
pinkham13
Footballguy
Not sure how much stock I would put into polls. Did they ask you? I wasn’t polled on it either. Still feel like Christian values are under attack primarily by liberal leaders.
Van Dyman
Footballguy
I was about to go grab the numbers for our friend here. Thanks for saving me the effort.
pinkham13
Footballguy
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
I was not polled. Regardless, it seems reasonable to me to conclude that Christians are divided on these issues. The majority of white, evangelical see things the way you do. But certainly not close to all.
Van Dyman
Footballguy
Without polling, you might not know that most Dems are religious and you might make some poor decisions based on incorrect assumptions, and it might be harder to distinguish between people who are giving you useful information versus people who are attempting to manipulate you into an emotional response via demagoguery.
Aren't you glad that isn't happening. You need polls. They help you understand the world better. I suspect that you want to have the best possible understanding of the world around you, and polling is an important tool in understanding things.
Last edited by a moderator:
pinkham13
Footballguy
Well I am not the only one who feels this way. There are numerous writers who expand on the topic available. https://www.nationalreview.com/2016/11/donald-trump-liberals-anti-christian-bigotry-swung-election/
That is not surprising. Most republicans are not really living a christian life - so of course most actions you see from them are anti-christian.
pinkham13
Footballguy
Mile High
Footballguy
Now explain how that worked when Obama won two terms? Democrats just became anti-Christian overnight? Obama when to church every Sunday. Bet ya Trump doesn't. How many times did Obama cheat on his pregnant wife with porn stars or with his next wife on his current one?
Last edited by a moderator:
pinkham13
Footballguy
After Bush Obama was an easy choice. I loved his rhetoric. If he had put a handful of bankers in jail and a few other things I might have voted for his second term.
Herb
Footballguy
Are they really the actions you SEE or are they the actions that you are TOLD are being undertaken?
There's a big difference. I SEE very little of the things that occur on a national stage that I have opinions on. I am TOLD things by various people or entities that shape those opinions. It's a matter of who and what you trust to give you the information that you base your opinions on. My suspicion is that you trust some sources that aren't trustworthy.
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
Liberals, for the most part support legal abortions. True! That is not the same as "totally support abortions". Some liberals believe that there are virtues in abortion while other believe that there are times when abortion is the lesser of several evils. Ultimately most of those liberals that believe that abortion should be legal give policy preference to one or more of the following-
- believe that the women should have control over her own body, her own health decisions
- believe that the interactions between patient and doctor and should be none of the governments business
- believe that policy should not be about making "moral stands" but should effectively make decision that ultimately make society better
- believe that policy which is statistically ineffective should not be pursued
- believe that it is unrealistic to think we will prosecute and lock up our mothers and daughters and sisters and wives because they make a desperate choice - or even a choice for convenience
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
A subset of Christians believe this. Probably still a majority. Even if they are correct and I am wrong in interpreting the half dozen passages there is still Matthew 7:3. And then there is Ezekiel 16:49-50 to explain the two dozen or so references to Sodom.
By the way abomination comes from the Hebrew word "toebah" does not usually signify something intrinsically evil but something which is ritually unclean for Jews. At least according to John Boswell the gay Catholic who wrote about this decades ago.
whoknew
Footballguy
whoknew
Footballguy
-fish-
Footballguy
I'm assuming that's a worldwide estimate. There are about 50-55 million abortions performed annually every year. In the US it's less than a million.
Last edited by a moderator:
The Narrator
Footballguy
The fetuses are a red herring. We should judge any law by what it accomplishes, not by how it makes us feel.
Abortion laws don't have any meaningful affect on abortion rates. In fact, the countries with the highest abortion rates are typically where it's illegal. While it's impossible to say exactly what would happen to abortion incidence if the USA banned it, there's no global evidence to suggest the number of abortions would decrease.
What making illegal does accomplish, however, is a significant increase in maternal mortality. It also takes personal freedoms and bodily autonomy away from women, putting them under control of the majority male politicians who would vote for this.
Since we should judge policy based on what it accomplishes, I don't see any reason to support an abortion ban unless you like seeing poor desperate pregnant women die from being controlled by men.
As a Christian, I do not support that policy.
Abortion laws don't have any meaningful affect on abortion rates. In fact, the countries with the highest abortion rates are typically where it's illegal. While it's impossible to say exactly what would happen to abortion incidence if the USA banned it, there's no global evidence to suggest the number of abortions would decrease.
What making illegal does accomplish, however, is a significant increase in maternal mortality. It also takes personal freedoms and bodily autonomy away from women, putting them under control of the majority male politicians who would vote for this.
Since we should judge policy based on what it accomplishes, I don't see any reason to support an abortion ban unless you like seeing poor desperate pregnant women die from being controlled by men.
As a Christian, I do not support that policy.
zoonation
Footballguy
The “soul” is truly one of mankind’s more peculiar inventions.
Mortality inspires creativity.
Last edited by a moderator:
msommer
Footballguy
Pretty strange to see the (white) protestant position vs Catholic position when contraposed with Europe, where the positions (if not the numbers) are reversed (although not sure that a majority of Catholics oppose abortion throughout Europe).
I'd say that white, American Protestants appear radicalized compared to their European fellows.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
I have no problem with any religion as long as it doesn't affect me. Practice it in private and keep it out of our laws and we'll get along just fine.
And he would say nobody is more religious than me. He probably thinks that it is quoted in 2 Corinthians about him being so.
Yep when asked what is one of his favorite verses from the Bible he said I like them all.
Actually I am surprised he didn’t go with Luke 14:11 “For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled and those who humble themselves will be exalted”
Last edited by a moderator:
Captain Cranks
Footballguy
It'll be cool when the people who don't believe in Santa Claus are considered the enlightened ones. For now we get to watch the children bicker about whose version of Santa is better.
Last edited by a moderator:
pinkham13
Footballguy
That’s because it a convenience thing now. 1.5 billion dead since 1980. Research on baby parts continues unabated.
http://www.numberofabortions.com/
http://www.theunchoice.com/EINews/2012Vol11/Vol11No2.htm
timschochet
Footballguy
The evangelical Christians who support Donald Trump are not stupid. They know he’s not religious at all. They support him because he supports them- it’s a transactional support. Look how many judges he’s appointed with the help of McConnell- not just on the Supreme Court but on all federal courts- thanks to Trump the religious right in this country should have influence and power for decades. So they are naturally going to be loyal and grateful.
In terms of dealing with Trump’s behavior, I have heard some of these evangelicals bring up King David- an imperfect guy in the Bible whom God used to get His will done. Essentially I see this as a religious version of “the ends justifies the means.”
Mile High
Footballguy
I'm old so it won't affect me much longer, but the people on the left who set out the last election deserve what setting out elections brings.
