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***Official Donald J. Trump Impeachment (Whistleblower) Thread*** (5 Viewers)

timschochet said:
I...dunno.

I heard an interview with this woman representative of the RNC this afternoon. She reminded me a little of @Don't Noonan She seemed positively gleeful about impeachment. Claimed that it would guarantee winning Michigan and Wisconsin, and taking back the House. I mean she was really excited.
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If she's established certainty, based on her exposure to and rational analysis of all possible evidence, that Trump will be exonerated she has reason to be excited. Otherwise her opinion is of no value.

 
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Twitter thread about recording head-of-state calls: https://twitter.com/LarryPfeifferDC/status/1176587533322342400

As senior director of the WH Situation Room, I managed POTUS head-of-state calls. So, what light can I shed on the Trump-promised phone transcript?

First off: unless this administration has changed procedures in place for many yeras, there are no WH tapes of this phone call. As I used to say, the WH became averse to taping Presidential phone calls in about 1974.

Could there be recordings made by the foreign head-of-state's government or a foreign intelligence service? Sure, particularly when the call is made over a non-secure phone.

Could there be recordings made by the US Intelligence Community? No. Law, regulation, and practice forbids such collection of USG officials. Besides, there's no foreign intelligence value in doing so, as the US official is aware of the call's contents.

Yes, there should be transcripts of the call. It is a long-standing practice, intended to not only memorialize the call but to protect the President against the foreign leader/gov't making egregious claims about the call.

The White House Situation Room and the responsible NSC directorate develop the transcript. WHSR, which monitors the call, develops a verbatim working transcript which is reviewed and finalized by the NSC directorate and captured in a memorandum of conversation (MEMCON).

This MEMCON can vary greatly from a lightly edited full transcript to a vaguely worded summary of the call. Sharing of the MEMCON outside of the WH and across gov't has varied from Admin to Admin and the sensitivity of the call, but has always been very limited.

Who in the USG listens to the call as it happens? This varies from call to call. I managed the very rare call in which only myself and WHSR heard the actual call. In most cases, the call was listened to live by several people.

Call participants often included the Nat'l Sec Advisor or his/her deputies, the WH Chief of Staff, an appropriate NSC Sr Director and members of his/her staff. Extremely rare for a non-WH person to be present for the call and we never looped in anyone outside the 18 acres.
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timschochet said:
Two theories:

1. Trump admitted that he asked the Ukraine President to investigate Biden. And he refused to have the IG report released to Congress. That's enough.

2. The Democrats know more than they're saying. The whistleblower report is more than just this one phone call. And it's really bad.

I don't know which of these is correct.
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Hint...neither

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
They voted on a non-binding resolution to “express the sense” that Trump should provide the whistleblower report to the intel committees. They didn’t vote to require him to do diddly squat. I don’t consider it much of a rebuke at all. 
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The fact that the senate did not offer even a token objection is telling, imo.

 
timschochet said:
You mean if he's removed.

If Trump is removed by the Senate, Mike Pence will be sworn in as President. And yes, he would probably then be the nominee for President, though that's not certain. Richard Nixon resigned in 1974, and Gerald Ford became President, but was seriously challenged by Ronald Reagan in 1976.
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I'd say if Trump is removed via impeachment, Pence is almost as deep into this controversy.  He would have trouble staying in office and they might simply go for one of those joint trials.

 
timschochet said:
Two theories:

1. Trump admitted that he asked the Ukraine President to investigate Biden. And he refused to have the IG report released to Congress. That's enough.

2. The Democrats know more than they're saying. The whistleblower report is more than just this one phone call. And it's really bad.

I don't know which of these is correct.
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I don’t know man. They are in the right on almost every issue yet have no control of anything. You’re presuming a lot. The democrat leadership is really stupid. 

 
KCitons said:
Probably needs its own thread. But if Trump is impeached, does Pence get the nomination in 2020? Will there be other viable candidates?
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Is there anything that says Trump could not run again? Certainly a decent amount of abandonment that would have to happen for him to be removed in the first place, but he’s got a lot of money already raised.

But, as I think donations of leftover campaign funds are allowed, he could take the leftover funds and donate it all to some Trump Foundation: Second Act run by his kids or something and the grift would be complete.

 
Adam Schiff‏ @RepAdamSchiff 11m11 minutes ago

It’s bad enough Trump sought help from a foreign power in the last election.

It’s worse still that he obstructed the investigation into his misconduct.

Now he‘s admitted using his office to coerce another country to interfere in 2020.

I fully support the impeachment inquiry.

 
Don't Noonan said:
That isn't a Trump quote.  Try again
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Speaking to reporters, the president defended his July phone call with President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine as entirely appropriate, and stopped short of directly confirming news reports about what was discussed. But he acknowledged that he had discussed Mr. Biden during the call and accused the former vice president of corruption tied to his son Hunter’s business activities in the former Soviet republic.

“The conversation I had was largely congratulatory, with largely corruption, all of the corruption taking place and largely the fact that we don’t want our people like Vice President Biden and his son creating to the corruption already in the Ukraine,” Mr. Trump told reporters before leaving for a trip to Texas and Ohio.

 
Capella said:
I mean the party as a whole. 
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It'd be a heck of a thing if the Republicans fabricated a situation like this just to draw the Democrats into an impeachment trap.

Barring that, there's apparently too much smoke here to ignore. They tried the conventional investigation route and got no cooperation from the administration. Their hand has been forced. Either they remain completely ineffectual and derelict in their duty and role in terms of the Constitutional function of Congress, or they have to risk this impeachment process. Given how painfully timid they've been up to now (the 10 instances of obstruction in the Russian Interference investigation was more than enough to begin the impeachment process), I don't know that they'd make this leap without a ton of assurance that it's justified and leads somewhere. They'd have to be mind numbingly stupid to do otherwise.

 
Sinn Fein said:
Speaking to reporters, the president defended his July phone call with President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine as entirely appropriate, and stopped short of directly confirming news reports about what was discussed. But he acknowledged that he had discussed Mr. Biden during the call and accused the former vice president of corruption tied to his son Hunter’s business activities in the former Soviet republic.

“The conversation I had was largely congratulatory, with largely corruption, all of the corruption taking place and largely the fact that we don’t want our people like Vice President Biden and his son creating to the corruption already in the Ukraine,” Mr. Trump told reporters before leaving for a trip to Texas and Ohio.
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Close, but no cigar

 
Capella said:
I mean the party as a whole. 
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Pelosi could have held off on impeachment. She could have said what Biden did: that if we don’t get the whistleblower report in a few days , THEN we impeach. That would have been strong enough. Instead she went straight to impeachment and that tells me she’s pretty sure about how strong her hand is. We’ll see. 

 
I despise Trump with every fiber of my being, but with no transcripts and not having seen the complaint, unless the dems have more evidence, this seems pre-mature.  If I’m a TV District Attorney, I’d be like “This isn’t good enough - we need more”.

I actually thought they had a better case with obstruction on the Russia investigation.  Mueller set it up for them on a tee, and the dems kept swinging and missing.

 
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Don't Noonan said:
Democrats are enemies of the people of the United States.  They are choosing revenge for losing in 2016 over the country. 
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Congrats, you've arrived.

In the nation's early years, Vladimir Lenin and Joseph Stalin used the term vrag naroda (enemy of the nation/people) to refer to those who disagreed with the ideologies pushed forth by the Bolshevik government and, later, adopted by the newly-formed Soviet Union. This could include anyone from the clergy who did not want to adopt state-enforced atheism to writers to political opposition that questioned the ideologies of the new government.
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Don't Noonan said:
Close, but no cigar
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:shrug:

I have no idea what you are looking for - it seemed to be you were looking for a Trump quote where he acknowledged talking to the Ukrainians about Biden.

I don't think that is really in dispute here.  The issue is really - Did he ask Ukraine to investigate Biden and his son?  Did Trump freeze Ukrainian aid - we know he did - so why?  When did that happen relative to Trump talking about investigating Biden?  Did anyone else, besides Giuliani and Pence speak with the Ukrainians about investigating Biden (we know those two did - but are there any others)?

 
lakerstan said:
I despise Trump with every fiber of my being, but with no transcripts and not having seen the complaint, unless the dems have more evidence, this seems pre-mature.  if I’m a TV District Attorney, I’d be like “This isn’t good enough - we need more”.

i actually thought they had a better case with obstruction on the Russia investigation.  Muller set it up for them on a tee, and the dems kept swinging and missing.
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From the outside, looking in, I agree.

But the perception here is that the Dems know what is in the report - and we know the White House knows what is in the report.  So, I don't get the sense that anyone in a position of power here is operating blindly.

 
Almost seems like Trump just wants to get fired. His ego can't take resigning, or losing the election. If he gets impeached he gets to go out with the rallying cry that the fake news stupid lib witch hunt was the reason he couldnt bring forth a more prosperous white nation

 
Gr00vus said:
Haven't heard of Crenshaw - do you have a synopsis?
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What bigbottom said. If I'm not mistaken, I think he had his own thread last year after an SNL cast member made fun of his eye. Very pro gun though. Which is great if you're a GOP voter.

 
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Sinn Fein said:
From the outside, looking in, I agree.

But the perception here is that the Dems know what is in the report - and we know the White House knows what is in the report.  So, I don't get the sense that anyone in a position of power here is operating blindly.
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Pelosi has always been very measured on impeachment looking at the larger picture, so for her to move forward is a big step.  I hope you are right.

 
Sinn Fein said:
Don't Noonan said:
Close, but no cigar
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:shrug:

I have no idea what you are looking for - it seemed to be you were looking for a Trump quote where he acknowledged talking to the Ukrainians about Biden.

I don't think that is really in dispute here.  The issue is really - Did he ask Ukraine to investigate Biden and his son?  Did Trump freeze Ukrainian aid - we know he did - so why?  When did that happen relative to Trump talking about investigating Biden?  Did anyone else, besides Giuliani and Pence speak with the Ukrainians about investigating Biden (we know those two did - but are there any others)?
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WASHINGTON – Vice President Mike Pence on Monday defended his own and the president’s conversations with the Ukrainian president, telling Fox News’ Sean Hannity that there was no quid pro quo when Trump brought up former Vice President Joe Biden during Trump’s congratulatory call to the newly-elected president in July.

“He mentioned Vice President Biden and his son in the context of us wanting to see honest government,” Pence said on Hannity’s show. “That’s exactly what the American taxpayer would expect.”

So, now you have Pence on record as acknowledging that Trump talked about Biden with the Ukrainians.

So, the hill to die on is not whether Trump talked about Biden - its in what context in the conversation, and how does that relate to the bigger picture?  Trump has already offered two contradictory reason for why he froze the Aid - but he will have to answer questions about that.

 
I guess this impeachment thing will make everyone happy. Glad the country is coming together on something. Which stands up to the task - the Democrats' competency or this administration's integrity? Stay tuned.

 
pecorino said:
Who would raise their hand as a "fan of Pence"? Trump won due to his cult of personality. Pence has no personality. Pence would make a terrible Presidential candidate.
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Exactly. Which is why I asked if the Republicans would look for a better candidate. Perhaps if Trump was impeached and removed some time early next year. 

 
Dinsy Ejotuz said:
I don't really care if it "backfires" or not.  History will judge this one and there's not much choice at this point.  Either you try to uphold the Constitution or you don't.  And let's make those mother ####ers on the right side of the Senate write their names in granite for all time if they let him walk.
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And LOL at those worried this will fire up Trump's base.  Trump's base is fired up every time a Starbucks barista says "Happy Holidays."*

*Yes,  I stole that joke off Twitter.

 
dawgtrails said:
Almost seems like Trump just wants to get fired. His ego can't take resigning, or losing the election. If he gets impeached he gets to go out with the rallying cry that the fake news stupid lib witch hunt was the reason he couldnt bring forth a more prosperous white nation
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I agree.....

dkp993 said:
Based on Trumps comments this morning admitting to threatening to withhold 250 million due to “corruption” is it possible he actually wants to get impeached at this point?  He’s acting like an addict who wants to get caught, almost like a cry for help.  
 

He really did have an idealistic lifestyle prior to being elected (which I truly believe he never thought would happen and didn’t really want) and now the weight and pressure of the office have to be getting to him.  His ego won’t allow him to not run again in 2020 and he loves playing the victim role. So he’s self sabotaging to give himself an out (protecting his ego for the election loss).  
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Sinn Fein said:
Speaking to reporters, the president defended his July phone call with President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine as entirely appropriate, and stopped short of directly confirming news reports about what was discussed. But he acknowledged that he had discussed Mr. Biden during the call and accused the former vice president of corruption tied to his son Hunter’s business activities in the former Soviet republic.

“The conversation I had was largely congratulatory, with largely corruption, all of the corruption taking place and largely the fact that we don’t want our people like Vice President Biden and his son creating to the corruption already in the Ukraine,” Mr. Trump told reporters before leaving for a trip to Texas and Ohio.
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Another somewhat hidden gem here is Trump bloviating about other people's corruption not more than a few weeks or so out from exposure of yet another instance of him directing Federal business/tax payer dollars to one of his own properties. Adorable.

 
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