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***Official Donald J. Trump Impeachment (Whistleblower) Thread***

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34 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Two theories:

1. Trump admitted that he asked the Ukraine President to investigate Biden. And he refused to have the IG report released to Congress. That's enough.

2. The Democrats know more than they're saying. The whistleblower report is more than just this one phone call. And it's really bad.

I don't know which of these is correct.

I don’t know man. They are in the right on almost every issue yet have no control of anything. You’re presuming a lot. The democrat leadership is really stupid. 

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1 minute ago, Capella said:

I don’t know man. They are in the right on almost every issue yet have no control of anything. You’re presuming a lot. The democrat leadership is really stupid. 

I don’t like Pelosi even a little, but she’s far from stupid.

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25 minutes ago, KCitons said:

Probably needs its own thread. But if Trump is impeached, does Pence get the nomination in 2020? Will there be other viable candidates?

Is there anything that says Trump could not run again? Certainly a decent amount of abandonment that would have to happen for him to be removed in the first place, but he’s got a lot of money already raised.

But, as I think donations of leftover campaign funds are allowed, he could take the leftover funds and donate it all to some Trump Foundation: Second Act run by his kids or something and the grift would be complete.

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1 hour ago, jonessed said:

I think there needs to be clear evidence of a quid pro quo or this is going to backfire tremendously.

Of course you do

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2 minutes ago, joffer said:

I don’t like Pelosi even a little, but she’s far from stupid.

I mean the party as a whole. 

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Adam Schiff‏ @RepAdamSchiff 11m11 minutes ago

It’s bad enough Trump sought help from a foreign power in the last election.

It’s worse still that he obstructed the investigation into his misconduct.

Now he‘s admitted using his office to coerce another country to interfere in 2020.

I fully support the impeachment inquiry.

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They got serious about impeachment when he went after one of their own. Pretty much as simple as that.

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I don't really care if it "backfires" or not.  History will judge this one and there's not much choice at this point.  Either you try to uphold the Constitution or you don't.  And let's make those mother ####ers on the right side of the Senate write their names in granite for all time if they let him walk.

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1 hour ago, Don't Noonan said:

That isn't a Trump quote.  Try again

Speaking to reporters, the president defended his July phone call with President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine as entirely appropriate, and stopped short of directly confirming news reports about what was discussed. But he acknowledged that he had discussed Mr. Biden during the call and accused the former vice president of corruption tied to his son Hunter’s business activities in the former Soviet republic.

“The conversation I had was largely congratulatory, with largely corruption, all of the corruption taking place and largely the fact that we don’t want our people like Vice President Biden and his son creating to the corruption already in the Ukraine,” Mr. Trump told reporters before leaving for a trip to Texas and Ohio.

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15 minutes ago, Don Quixote said:

Is there anything that says Trump could not run again?

Henry pointed to this language in the Nerdy Impeachment thread. It says the person impeached is forever disqualified from office.

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12 minutes ago, Capella said:

I mean the party as a whole. 

It'd be a heck of a thing if the Republicans fabricated a situation like this just to draw the Democrats into an impeachment trap.

Barring that, there's apparently too much smoke here to ignore. They tried the conventional investigation route and got no cooperation from the administration. Their hand has been forced. Either they remain completely ineffectual and derelict in their duty and role in terms of the Constitutional function of Congress, or they have to risk this impeachment process. Given how painfully timid they've been up to now (the 10 instances of obstruction in the Russian Interference investigation was more than enough to begin the impeachment process), I don't know that they'd make this leap without a ton of assurance that it's justified and leads somewhere. They'd have to be mind numbingly stupid to do otherwise.

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5 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

Speaking to reporters, the president defended his July phone call with President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine as entirely appropriate, and stopped short of directly confirming news reports about what was discussed. But he acknowledged that he had discussed Mr. Biden during the call and accused the former vice president of corruption tied to his son Hunter’s business activities in the former Soviet republic.

“The conversation I had was largely congratulatory, with largely corruption, all of the corruption taking place and largely the fact that we don’t want our people like Vice President Biden and his son creating to the corruption already in the Ukraine,” Mr. Trump told reporters before leaving for a trip to Texas and Ohio.

Close, but no cigar

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17 minutes ago, Capella said:

I mean the party as a whole. 

Pelosi could have held off on impeachment. She could have said what Biden did: that if we don’t get the whistleblower report in a few days , THEN we impeach. That would have been strong enough. Instead she went straight to impeachment and that tells me she’s pretty sure about how strong her hand is. We’ll see. 

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58 minutes ago, Gr00vus said:

I imagine you'll get a rehash of 2016 minus Trump. I'm not aware of any rising stars in the Republican constellation however. I'd hope for Kasich to emerge personally.

Crenshaw...maybe. At least within the GOP realm, probably not nationally.

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I despise Trump with every fiber of my being, but with no transcripts and not having seen the complaint, unless the dems have more evidence, this seems pre-mature.  If I’m a TV District Attorney, I’d be like “This isn’t good enough - we need more”.

I actually thought they had a better case with obstruction on the Russia investigation.  Mueller set it up for them on a tee, and the dems kept swinging and missing.

Edited by lakerstan
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2 minutes ago, Don't Noonan said:

Democrats are enemies of the people of the United States.  They are choosing revenge for losing in 2016 over the country. 

Congrats, you've arrived.

Quote

In the nation's early years, Vladimir Lenin and Joseph Stalin used the term vrag naroda (enemy of the nation/people) to refer to those who disagreed with the ideologies pushed forth by the Bolshevik government and, later, adopted by the newly-formed Soviet Union. This could include anyone from the clergy who did not want to adopt state-enforced atheism to writers to political opposition that questioned the ideologies of the new government.

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8 minutes ago, Don't Noonan said:

Close, but no cigar

:shrug:

I have no idea what you are looking for - it seemed to be you were looking for a Trump quote where he acknowledged talking to the Ukrainians about Biden.

 

I don't think that is really in dispute here.  The issue is really - Did he ask Ukraine to investigate Biden and his son?  Did Trump freeze Ukrainian aid - we know he did - so why?  When did that happen relative to Trump talking about investigating Biden?  Did anyone else, besides Giuliani and Pence speak with the Ukrainians about investigating Biden (we know those two did - but are there any others)?

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2 minutes ago, ShamrockPride said:

Crenshaw...maybe. At least within the GOP realm, probably not nationally.

Haven't heard of Crenshaw - do you have a synopsis?

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1 hour ago, KCitons said:

I understand the VP would be sworn in. Just wondering if the GOP would really want Trump remnants running in 2020. 

Why not?  At this point they are all-in on Trump. 

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4 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

White House preparing to release whistleblower complaint to Congress

Trump has approved releasing the document at the center of his latest standoff with lawmakers, a senior administration official said.

Odd, considering the reports that Trump reached out Pelosi to ask if “...they could work something out on this whole whistleblower thing...” 

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Quote

Chris Megerian‏Verified account @ChrisMegerian

The president has returned to Trump Tower "for what is described as executive time," according to pool report.

 

Edited by SaintsInDome2006

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1 minute ago, lakerstan said:

I despise Trump with every fiber of my being, but with no transcripts and not having seen the complaint, unless the dems have more evidence, this seems pre-mature.  if I’m a TV District Attorney, I’d be like “This isn’t good enough - we need more”.

i actually thought they had a better case with obstruction on the Russia investigation.  Muller set it up for them on a tee, and the dems kept swinging and missing.

From the outside, looking in, I agree.

But the perception here is that the Dems know what is in the report - and we know the White House knows what is in the report.  So, I don't get the sense that anyone in a position of power here is operating blindly.

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Almost seems like Trump just wants to get fired. His ego can't take resigning, or losing the election. If he gets impeached he gets to go out with the rallying cry that the fake news stupid lib witch hunt was the reason he couldnt bring forth a more prosperous white nation

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3 minutes ago, Gr00vus said:

Haven't heard of Crenshaw - do you have a synopsis?

Combat vet. Good guy. Eye patch. 

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Just now, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Chris Megerian‏Verified account @ChrisMegerian

The president has returned to Trump Tower "for what is described as executive time," according to pool report.

my link

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7 minutes ago, Gr00vus said:

Haven't heard of Crenshaw - do you have a synopsis?

What bigbottom said. If I'm not mistaken, I think he had his own thread last year after an SNL cast member made fun of his eye. Very pro gun though. Which is great if you're a GOP voter.

Edited by ShamrockPride
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OMG, the gift that keeps on giving.  I love this.  Political suicide for the Dems.

Edited by JohnnyU
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1 minute ago, Sinn Fein said:

From the outside, looking in, I agree.

But the perception here is that the Dems know what is in the report - and we know the White House knows what is in the report.  So, I don't get the sense that anyone in a position of power here is operating blindly.

Pelosi has always been very measured on impeachment looking at the larger picture, so for her to move forward is a big step.  I hope you are right.

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9 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:
22 minutes ago, Don't Noonan said:

Close, but no cigar

:shrug:

I have no idea what you are looking for - it seemed to be you were looking for a Trump quote where he acknowledged talking to the Ukrainians about Biden.

 

I don't think that is really in dispute here.  The issue is really - Did he ask Ukraine to investigate Biden and his son?  Did Trump freeze Ukrainian aid - we know he did - so why?  When did that happen relative to Trump talking about investigating Biden?  Did anyone else, besides Giuliani and Pence speak with the Ukrainians about investigating Biden (we know those two did - but are there any others)?

WASHINGTON – Vice President Mike Pence on Monday defended his own and the president’s conversations with the Ukrainian president, telling Fox News’ Sean Hannity that there was no quid pro quo when Trump brought up former Vice President Joe Biden during Trump’s congratulatory call to the newly-elected president in July.

“He mentioned Vice President Biden and his son in the context of us wanting to see honest government,” Pence said on Hannity’s show. “That’s exactly what the American taxpayer would expect.”

 

So, now you have Pence on record as acknowledging that Trump talked about Biden with the Ukrainians.

 

So, the hill to die on is not whether Trump talked about Biden - its in what context in the conversation, and how does that relate to the bigger picture?  Trump has already offered two contradictory reason for why he froze the Aid - but he will have to answer questions about that.

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1 hour ago, KCitons said:

I'm just not a fan of Pence. Just curious. 

Who would raise their hand as a "fan of Pence"? Trump won due to his cult of personality. Pence has no personality. Pence would make a terrible Presidential candidate.

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14 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

 

I would pay money to be a fly on the wall right now as he fumes over Fox News

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I guess this impeachment thing will make everyone happy. Glad the country is coming together on something. Which stands up to the task - the Democrats' competency or this administration's integrity? Stay tuned.

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1 hour ago, timschochet said:

She checked with Assad, he told her to be against it.

Lame 

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1 minute ago, pecorino said:

Who would raise their hand as a "fan of Pence"? Trump won due to his cult of personality. Pence has no personality. Pence would make a terrible Presidential candidate.

Exactly. Which is why I asked if the Republicans would look for a better candidate. Perhaps if Trump was impeached and removed some time early next year. 

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5 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

So, now you have Pence on record as acknowledging that Trump talked about Biden with the Ukrainians.

I'd think the guy would have learned his lesson after the Flynn incident. They just push him out when they need him and he'll say what they put in front of him.

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40 minutes ago, Dinsy Ejotuz said:

I don't really care if it "backfires" or not.  History will judge this one and there's not much choice at this point.  Either you try to uphold the Constitution or you don't.  And let's make those mother ####ers on the right side of the Senate write their names in granite for all time if they let him walk.

And LOL at those worried this will fire up Trump's base.  Trump's base is fired up every time a Starbucks barista says "Happy Holidays."*

 

*Yes,  I stole that joke off Twitter.

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2 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

Rudy - acting on behalf of Trump -  acknowledging he asked Ukraine to investigate Biden

 

This - alone - is pretty close to an abuse of power sufficient enough to support impeachment.

Is it ok for Trump (the private citizen) to do opposition research in Ukraine?  I mean, Hillary hired a lawyer (who subcontracted) to do opposition research in Russia in 2016...right?

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18 minutes ago, dawgtrails said:

Almost seems like Trump just wants to get fired. His ego can't take resigning, or losing the election. If he gets impeached he gets to go out with the rallying cry that the fake news stupid lib witch hunt was the reason he couldnt bring forth a more prosperous white nation

I agree.....

On 9/23/2019 at 11:53 AM, dkp993 said:

Based on Trumps comments this morning admitting to threatening to withhold 250 million due to “corruption” is it possible he actually wants to get impeached at this point?  He’s acting like an addict who wants to get caught, almost like a cry for help.  
 

He really did have an idealistic lifestyle prior to being elected (which I truly believe he never thought would happen and didn’t really want) and now the weight and pressure of the office have to be getting to him.  His ego won’t allow him to not run again in 2020 and he loves playing the victim role. So he’s self sabotaging to give himself an out (protecting his ego for the election loss).  

 

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39 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

Speaking to reporters, the president defended his July phone call with President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine as entirely appropriate, and stopped short of directly confirming news reports about what was discussed. But he acknowledged that he had discussed Mr. Biden during the call and accused the former vice president of corruption tied to his son Hunter’s business activities in the former Soviet republic.

“The conversation I had was largely congratulatory, with largely corruption, all of the corruption taking place and largely the fact that we don’t want our people like Vice President Biden and his son creating to the corruption already in the Ukraine,” Mr. Trump told reporters before leaving for a trip to Texas and Ohio.

Another somewhat hidden gem here is Trump bloviating about other people's corruption not more than a few weeks or so out from exposure of yet another instance of him directing Federal business/tax payer dollars to one of his own properties. Adorable.

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My, my, this is moving fast:

"The White House is preparing to release to Congress by the end of the week both the whistleblower complaint and the Inspector General report that are at the center of House Democrats' impeachment inquiry, according to a senior administration official."

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/24/white-house-whistleblower-complaint-release-1510341

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6 minutes ago, unckeyherb said:

Lame 

It sure is. Why she is infatuated with that guy is a huge mystery to me. 

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44 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

Political suicide for the Dems.

It's a shot list of presidents with impeachment inquiries opened for them.

Actually impeached:

  • AJohnson - lost the nomination of his own party.
  • Nixon - resigned, Ford was beaten in the next election.
  • Clinton - stayed in office, his VP Gore was defeated in the next election.

Impeachment was also sought for Buchanan - he did not run for a 2nd term. His party lost the next election.

Edited by SaintsInDome2006

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37 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Pelosi could have held off on impeachment. She could have said what Biden did: that if we don’t get the whistleblower report in a few days , THEN we impeach. That would have been strong enough. Instead she went straight to impeachment and that tells me she’s pretty sure about how strong her hand is. We’ll see. 

Yea I’m not sure this is the right take. Hope so. 

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1 minute ago, timschochet said:

It sure is. Why she is infatuated with that guy is a huge mystery to me. 

She’s not.  And it’s tired to keep bringing it up.  I’m actually surprised that you did, I’d normally expect more from you.

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2 hours ago, jonessed said:

I think there needs to be clear evidence of a quid pro quo or this is going to backfire tremendously.

Why would you need the "quo"?

Do you really think the President should be permitted to use his power to ask other countries to investigate his political opponents?

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Let me blow your mind.  One by one, the hurdles to impeachment start falling.  First, moderate Democrats in the house.  Next, Republican senators in tough 2020 races.  The Senate demands the full whistleblower report as key Senators like Rubio and Romney suggest that a trial on impeachment would need to be taken seriously.

The Senate intel committee releases the whistleblower report, which makes a solid case for impeachment.  The whistleblower is, ..., Mike Pence.

And that's how my prequel to The Handmaid's Tale ends ...

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