timschochet
Footballguy
They do know because Nancy Pelosi stated it today: abuse of power. He urged the head of state of another country to provide Trump information that might help him win an election.
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***Official Donald J. Trump Impeachment (Whistleblower) Thread*** (10 Viewers)
- Thread starter snitwitch
- Start date
boots11234
Footballguy
First Russia. Trump colluded with them. When it turned out it was the Democrats who hired a foreign spy to get dirt.
Now ukraine. To quote anti American Omar “some people did some things.” Yet in reality This is about Sleepy Joe AKA Ukraine Joe who got his son a job while he had direct over-site of aide and then had the prosecutor fired and bragged about it. Oh FYI he son had zero experience with the region, energy, the language, nothing yet he got a job that payed 100’s of thousands of dollars. Thank goodness Ukraine Joe was never going to be your nominee cuz he didn’t stand a chance.
Now ukraine. To quote anti American Omar “some people did some things.” Yet in reality This is about Sleepy Joe AKA Ukraine Joe who got his son a job while he had direct over-site of aide and then had the prosecutor fired and bragged about it. Oh FYI he son had zero experience with the region, energy, the language, nothing yet he got a job that payed 100’s of thousands of dollars. Thank goodness Ukraine Joe was never going to be your nominee cuz he didn’t stand a chance.
boots11234
Footballguy
She knows this why? She haven’t even read the transcript. See my post above. The one where you said there were no facts. That post.
All news reports are saying trump asked him to reopen investigation. That IS NOT The same as what you just said. I couldn’t understand Pelosis news conference either. Her dentures kept on slipping.
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Max Power
Footballguy
They explained how these transcripts are created on the news tonight and there are many people involved. If they are altered I'm sure we will find out.
ren hoek
Footballguy
Something I find interesting is that Barack Obama used the Espionage Act to prosecute whistleblowers, more than any other president in the history of our country. Trump is absolutely teeing off on whistleblowers like Chelsea Manning, Reality Winner, Daniel Hale. There's very little if any media outrage about it. The US is seeking to extradite and torture the publisher of the world's most prolific whistleblowing website, Julian Assange, and no one cares.
Thomas Drake, John Kiriakou, Jeffrey Sterling- these people suffered massive consequences to their personal and professional lives for blowing the whistle. The "obey the Constitution" "rule of law" talk was nowhere to be found. They were generally left to rot by society at large. The political class doesn't give a #### about these people- they have nothing but contempt for them.
But this one, of all things, kicks off an impeachment inquiry. This one demands accountability. I don't even disagree with the substance of the complaint assuming it's true. But where was the rule of law for all the other whistleblowers? Where was the accountability for the crimes they exposed? Where was the justice?
It's really sick the way these legal platitudes and pleas to honor 'institutions' get tossed around when it serves established power, but not when it doesn't. This country turned its back on whistleblowers and the rule of law a long time ago. It's clear this is about political opportunism- not honor or being bound to the responsibilities of the office.
Thomas Drake, John Kiriakou, Jeffrey Sterling- these people suffered massive consequences to their personal and professional lives for blowing the whistle. The "obey the Constitution" "rule of law" talk was nowhere to be found. They were generally left to rot by society at large. The political class doesn't give a #### about these people- they have nothing but contempt for them.
But this one, of all things, kicks off an impeachment inquiry. This one demands accountability. I don't even disagree with the substance of the complaint assuming it's true. But where was the rule of law for all the other whistleblowers? Where was the accountability for the crimes they exposed? Where was the justice?
It's really sick the way these legal platitudes and pleas to honor 'institutions' get tossed around when it serves established power, but not when it doesn't. This country turned its back on whistleblowers and the rule of law a long time ago. It's clear this is about political opportunism- not honor or being bound to the responsibilities of the office.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
Jesus Christ. You can't just label everything a "whistle blower" and claim they are the same. This report came through an established statutory process designed to protect IC whistleblowers. It requires the report to be delivered to the DNI. For the GC of the DNI to determine whether it is urgent and credible. And then the statutory language provides that the DNI "shall" (not may) transmit the report to Congress. It has absolutley no similarity to what Julian Assange or Reality Winner or Edward Snowden or whatever goofy comparison you got off Reddit did.
timschochet
Footballguy
Get real The whistleblower is someone who works closely with the administration and is one of a handful of individuals present during phone calls. There are no liberal Democrats working that closely in theWhite House with the President. Rest assured a list of who the whistleblower might be is being compiled by administration officials and that is a relatively short list.Don't Noonan said:
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timschochet
Footballguy
Apparently Pelosi made the point to her caucus yesterday that Trump asked the Ukraine to manufacture evidence against Biden- that’s the exact word she used- manufacture.
If the Democrats have evidence of this, either through a phone transcript or some other form of documentation, then Republicans will have a difficult time defending this to the public, quid pro quo or not.
If the Democrats have evidence of this, either through a phone transcript or some other form of documentation, then Republicans will have a difficult time defending this to the public, quid pro quo or not.
My guess is that was a little hyperbole - stemming from the fact that Ukraine has not found any reason to investigate Biden in the past, and thus would have to "manufacture" evidence to investigate now.
moleculo
Footballguy
The mere act of Ukraine re-opening an investigation would be enough for Trump. The evidence of an investigation is all he needs to throw red meat to his base.
"Sleepy Joe Bidens son is under investigation!"
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timschochet
Footballguy
The Democrats need to keep this narrowly focused to national security. Which means forget about Mueller stuff, emolument stuff, all other scandals- make this about Ukraine only.
Keep it on message: the President has sacrificed national security to his own interests. Therefore he is not fit to be President.
Keep it on message: the President has sacrificed national security to his own interests. Therefore he is not fit to be President.
In the end, I think this was simply Trump - and his cohorts - being greedy.
If you think about it - they did not need Ukraine to open an investigation here. There were enough verifiable acts to create a misinformation campaign that would could have been amplified by their bot army.
1. Hunter Biden taking a role on the Board of a Ukranian gas company while Joe was Vice-President. For the under-informed - that alone creates an appearance of impropriety.
2. The gas company is owned by an - OLIGARCH!!!11!1juan!!1 - it must be evil
3. Obama assigns the task of negotiating with Ukraine to Joe Biden - now you are throwing red meat to the masses.
4. Joe is on tape re-telling the story of demanding that Ukraine fire the prosecutor in charge of corruption cases - in exchange for US aid.
That is enough for the average voter to immediately assume Biden is using US Foreign Policy to protect his son. You don't have to even connect all the dots to get the people there. That would go in twittersphere and the book of faces so often that everyone would assume its true. And that puts Biden in the position of having to defend himself on non-existent charges - which further feeds the narrative that it must be true.
If you think about it - they did not need Ukraine to open an investigation here. There were enough verifiable acts to create a misinformation campaign that would could have been amplified by their bot army.
1. Hunter Biden taking a role on the Board of a Ukranian gas company while Joe was Vice-President. For the under-informed - that alone creates an appearance of impropriety.
2. The gas company is owned by an - OLIGARCH!!!11!1juan!!1 - it must be evil
3. Obama assigns the task of negotiating with Ukraine to Joe Biden - now you are throwing red meat to the masses.
4. Joe is on tape re-telling the story of demanding that Ukraine fire the prosecutor in charge of corruption cases - in exchange for US aid.
That is enough for the average voter to immediately assume Biden is using US Foreign Policy to protect his son. You don't have to even connect all the dots to get the people there. That would go in twittersphere and the book of faces so often that everyone would assume its true. And that puts Biden in the position of having to defend himself on non-existent charges - which further feeds the narrative that it must be true.
apalmer
Footballguy
TV District Attorney? How about REAL District Attorney? The police chief says to you "We have a guy who was bragging in a bar about committing a murder last week and who says he still has the gun, the victim's ID and bloody clothes in his apartment. We haven't seen any of that, and he sure isn't about to give it to us if we ask. Do we have enough to open an investigation and get a search warrant?"lakerstan said:
sho nuff
Footballguy
The transcript and call is apparently just one piece of the complaint. That has been said multiple times now.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Those aren't facts...specifically that the complaint is just the phone call, that the dems are impeaching (its an inquiry), Trump will release his transcript of one call (he has doctored them before), he isn't playing chess...he doesn't get how the pieces move, and his poll numbers have remained pretty steadily bad (save me the rasmussen garbage).
Max Power
Footballguy
sho nuff
Footballguy
No the obstruction needs to come out as well as more documentation. As some said after the mueller report as to what an impeachment investigation would do. It would compel more production of documents and interviews.
The Commish
Footballguy
sho nuff
Footballguy
So you think the complaint is all one phone call? Its not just a couple pages here...its at the heart of the issue.
It seems the Trump version is working. Try making it all just about thisnphine call...spread “no quid pro quo” and hope it all goes away.
https://amp.businessinsider.com/trump-releasing-ukraine-transcript-not-as-important-as-whistleblower-complaint-2019-9
The Commish
Footballguy
So, genuine question....what is the chain of custody on this transcript?
timschochet
Footballguy
This was my initial thought but I’ve reconsidered. You’re not going to win over public opinion if they are flooded with too many issues. Keep the focus simple. National security .Easy for the public to understand.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
They raised based on Trump's public statements. They feel he has said enough publicly to warrent an investigation.
The General
Footballguy
Maybe we’ll get another laughably bad excuse from donald
i meant to say “please don’t look into Biden”.
i meant to say “please don’t look into Biden”.
boots11234
Footballguy
Reading comprehension down? I believe it to be fact, Tim doesn’t so we’ll see who’s correct. HTH
Nick Vermeil
Footballguy
Interesting background on calls and transcripts here.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/24/us/politics/trump-calls-world-leaders.html
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timschochet
Footballguy
Amused to Death
Footballguy
SHIZNITTTT
Footballguy
Sen. Lindsey Graham in 1999: “A president doesn’t even have to be convicted of a crime to be impeached. Impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office”
https://twitter.com/i/status/1176636539603800064
https://twitter.com/i/status/1176636539603800064
Thunderlips
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
no...reading comprehension is just fine. What I was reading is the problem. That's why I asked the question. If you believe something, it's not a fact, it's a belief. Beliefs are a held position beyond what the facts require.
The Commish
Footballguy
Paywalled for me
I think the documented chain of custody on something like this is crucial to its validity and whether we put stock in it one way or the other. I suppose there is the slightest of comforts knowing there is a "whistleblower" out there, but it's not completely reassuring when determining the validity of what's presented to us if we don't understand the chain of custody here.
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timschochet
Footballguy
Giuliani says the State Department asked him to go to Ukraine and investigate Joe Biden. So Rudy needs to be one of the first witnesses IMO.. and who in the State Department asked him? (And that can be the next witness.) And why was the ambassador suddenly fired?
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
“There has been no President in the history of our country who has been treated as badly as i have.”
Reminds me of a certain poster who is obsessed with AOC....
Reminds me of a certain poster who is obsessed with AOC....
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
Not meant to troll. Sadly it was the first thing to come to my mind, but I’m actually trying to make a real point here. Inability to handle criticism often results in labeling oneself the victim.
Nick Vermeil
Footballguy
It’s an important question and the article does a good job laying out the way the Trump admin has changed the typical process. I’ll try to summarize a little later or just post the article text.Paywalled for me
I think the documented chain of custody on something like this is crucial to its validity and whether we put stock in it one way or the other. I suppose there is the slightest of comforts knowing there is a "whistleblower" out there, but it's not completely reassuring when determining the validity of what's presented to us if we don't understand the chain of custody here.
timschochet
Footballguy
Best response on twitter: “You seem like a very happy young girl looking forward to a bright and wonderful future.”
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
You're posting about Jon at 5 in the morning. I don't think you should be criticizing Jon, or anyone else. Go ahead if you want my point was made as well. That's why we all
at you when you start lecturing people about good discussion in other threads from time to time.
timschochet
Footballguy
I have to be up this early, unfortunately.You're posting about Jon at 5 in the morning. I don't think you should be criticizing Jon, or anyone else. Go ahead if you want my point was made as well. That's why we all
You’re one of the main people I “lecture” about good discussion, and this is an example of why it’s well deserved. As usual, your only contribution to this thread was an attempt to rip me personally for making a perfectly justifiable comparison. You haven’t offered a single thought on the issue at hand; you never do. You only wait until you see the opportunity to attack other posters. Have at it I guess.
Sammy3469
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
Europe has given more aid to Ukraine than the United States.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
I love this “fact”. Trump is now under impeachment investigation but yet somehow he’s the master manipulator playing chess.
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